New Series of Top Gear

New series of Top Gear Starts next week at 8pm BBC2 on sunday .

At last
Just DON'T tell petep!

I cant believe they havent canned it, the old format is soooo tired, as are the presenters.

Thanks for letting us know Rob.

The old format and presenters are only as tiring as the people that moan about it/them.

I'm looking forward to it, as usual

/\ /\ /\ /\ I have nothing more to add!

For me it's like Wrestling.

I dont watch wrestling because I just cant wrap my head around the fact that it's just theatre. I know it is, but my mind just sits there going "why are you idiots cheering at a bunch of people pretending to hit each other?!!?"

Top Gear is Wrestling for Car people.

We all know it's staged, its childish and its means nothing. But yet they still tune in each week to point and laugh along with it.

I wouldnt go to a wrestling coach that was endorsed by a WWF wrestler, as much as i wouldn't buy a car recommended by Top Gear.

Where it differs from Wrestling however is the fact that'd i'd happily watch Top Gear, albeit with a sense of fear, knowing that others see it as 'real'.

Whilst I'm sure the BBC loses a number of viewers in the UK with each passing series (even allowing for a few joining), Top Gear seemingly makes so much cash from worldwide sales and other spinoffs that - until the presenters get too old to drive or there's a nuclear war - it makes no commercial sense to fiddle with the formula. If you tried to introduce new people or alter how it is presented, there would be outcry.

It is surprising that it is still going along in the same old format as it wouldn't take much to refresh it a bit but It's harmless fun at the end of the day.

I record it, which makes it easier to skip some of the tedious Captain Slow and Hamster V. Jeremy "races" across Europe etc.

There is always something in there to give you a laugh or to drool at.
It's a Cartoon show really..

Great I look forward to it, about the only thing I watch on the BBC, along with Sherlock. Makes a change from dross like Eastenders, prancing on ice, strictly, Britains (not) got talent, etc. etc.

I'm looking forward to it. I'd like to see more challenges - the ones where they buy 3 similar cars and mess about with them.

Although I've seen a few reviews of the Mac P1 and Porsche 918 online it will be nice to see them on TG.

Agree, anything that is not a "reality" or "talentless" show is welcome.

It's still a laugh at times and also gives something for Dave to show 24hrs a day.

There are no surprises why Top Gear is still running & if some still don't get it, they really want to wake up & smell the petrol. I for one take it for what it is & just hop on for the ride...

As has been said, so much worse crap on the telly, but I wont mention or go into too much details about the crappy programs.

All the above. I stopped being an avid viewer a few series ago due to most of the reasons it gets moaned about but I'll still watch it if I happen to be near the tele when it's on.

Bit of daft, nothing more, nothing less. When does it start again?

See first post

I obviously needed to put a tongue in cheek smiley there instead!

Top Gear is like an old pair of comfy slippers.

Whiffy, out of date and made of Tartan but nice to have on when you are infront of the telly. But I've grown up with it and there is always something to look forward to, even if it is Clarkson taking the p*** out of Hamster.

I must admit, the races across Europe are getting a bit tiring now. I'm sure they could introduce some new stuff without upsetting the viewers.

Have to agree, it's no longer cutting edge, but always good family entertainment, which doesn't take itself too seriously.

Totally agree

One Top Gear thing I've always wondered about.

When they had the Ferrari F40/Porsche 959 feature, they didn't take them around the test track.

Allegedly the F40 did not start and the 959 broke down.

Is that what really happened or did they purposely avoid driving them really hard in order to avoid damaging these very old and more importantly very expensive cars?

Being as they have thrashed a C-Type jag around the track i doubt they would shy about an F40. A C-type is considerably more rare, older and i would guess expensive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MDTcXGsjuo If you want to see a F40 getting spanked.

Great! TV time for me again. Welcome change to Neigh-whores and Grey's lobotomy.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rTyxhcJqLI4

So, that was..... err a little silly.

A good start to the show which then descended into the usual blow up stuff and mess around with tanks.

Is it true about the Nova SRi hotwire?

The old military base they used is somewhere I used to go for work. A great little play ground !

It's the same old formula... but quite entertaining.

I quited liked the moustache joke, and the cartoon "sitting in a smouldering wreck / crater "

I think there were some cars featured somewhere

It's true about the hotwire, used to work in my Nova.

It had a good topic 1980s hot hatches but then went downhill after about 10 minutes . They could have made it really good but then the silliness creeps in . I am still waiting for the episode and then at the end to say that was great really great . Its been a long time since i have said that .

+1

I was well excited when I read 80's hot hatches were in this episode...

Then they rocked up in -

The 8v Mk2 Golf GTI, Which is a good classic I admit, then a Zetec 1800 Xr2i, which as anyone knows was and is the least desirable Xr2i built, Finally a Nova SRi! Wtf, maybe, just maybe a GTE or GSi, but I was outraged that on such a epic topic, they produce such lame cars.

Should have seen -

Mk1 Golf
205 Gti 1.6 or 1.9
Renault 5 Gt turbo

Agree a poor choice. But then again I'd have been in tears if they'd have totalled a decent 205 or Renault 5 Gt Turbo.

And how much do 5 gt turbos sell for?

I suppose at least they spoiled some of the less desirable 'hot' hatches.

A good Astra GTE 16V, Golf GTI 16V, Escort RS Turbo, R5 GTT would fetch several grand.

Exactly mate. Whatever the cars they almost anyways end up destorying destory them in some form or another....

If they picked some of the good ones they wouldn't do all the ususal crap which might (would) be better but thats a different rant.

Yes its also the same on astras doesn't apply to just Sri .any model with that hazard switch.

I thought it was rubbish and a waste of an hour .

Oxymoron alert!

But I agree with everybody else - less stupidity would have made it much better.

Oxymoron alert!

Not at all, the king of hot hatches in it's day, bar none - if you are that interested check the 1988 Autocar road test where is spanked the Golf GTI 16V, didn't understeer and could be 4 wheel drifted. Have you even driven one ?

When Hammond came sliding through in the Nova on it's side in the super market I was in stitches!! Yes it was extremely silly and the same as always, but still good viewing!

No way the Astra was the king lol even the renault 19 16v was a better car.

I think I might still have a magazine with it on the cover from when it first came out and, yes, I have driven one.

As for spanking the GTI 16v - well, I didn't like them either (much preferred the Mk 1 GTi), but the Astra just felt like a tinny, badly bolted POS.

Edited to add: And that was when they were new. I'd say finding a 'good' one now must be on par with the quest to find rocking-horse poo-poo.

Agreed, we were both having a good laugh at that.

So much negativity towards this episode, yes it was going to be predictable at the end, but it easily passes a hour will silly antics. Some people need to lighten up, or maybe just switch the channel and watch something like Downtown Abbey.

Depends what year of the 1980s you are talking about . In 1984 the Fiat Strada Abarth 130TC was king until the Golf GTI 16V came along . I would have a Astra 16v over a Golf 16v gti or Renault 19 16v anyday .Would the Ford Sierra Cosworth 3 door hatchback not be the ultimate 1980s hatch ?

You'd think that any serious test of 80s hot-hatches would have to include the XR3i, and Clarkson did spend most of the 80s taking the p*ss out of them when he was writing for Performance Car, but load knows what a decent example costs these days.

Actually, a quick trip to eBay turned up this, which looks pretty tidy for £3k*

Although it would have been nice to see something a bit more off-the-wall - a Polo G40, perhaps.

* Not £3k of my money - I didn't like them then and I don't like them now - but £3k of the Top Gear budget would be fine.

Agree, it was not a representative selection of hot hatches.

My recollection of that era was:-
Atra GTE
Renault 5 Turbo
XR3i
Mg Maestro Turbo

You don't see any of the above around, most have dissolved and the rest have been trashed.

The comical alarms always going off was true to form though and explains my irrational hatred of such items.

The best one IMO. Quick in their time, good handling and plenty of hot start problems

Legendary car!

I can't remember the last time I saw any flavour of R5 on the road, but there's a few on eBay.

The best 5 turbo was uno turbo.better looking,handling more reliable and quicker.
Also had hot start problems due to exhaust being under inlet manifold.
The rare metro turbo was a right laugh too.

The dad of one of my friends used to insist that the Metro Turbo was the fastest production car ever built, and wouldn't hear any arguments to the contrary

Weren't they famous for eating their own gearboxes, though?

There was what I think to be a wide body Gordini turbo down the road.

My experience of 1980's hot hatches occured in the 1990's, The Astra GTE was epic but everybody I know who had one stuffed it. There was also a rumnour that you could twist the chassis if you pulled away at the lights to hard?
The Pug205 (Cheetah) used to spin all the time and the Escort RS turbo really suffered from hot start...
Being hard up I didn't get to own any of these and had to make do with a Alfa Sud (clover leaf), one of my mates had a Sunbeam Lotus, crap looking but went like stink!

In the GTE I drove the LCD speedo couldn't keep up with the acceleration. If you booted the car the speedo went blank, thought about it for a bit and then popped up a new speed.

I was never really into hot-hatches, although I did love my mate's Mk I Golf GTi. I nearly bought a Mk 2 GTi 16v, but it felt like a lardy sack of poo in comparison.

Personally I'd still rather get an 80s coupé than a hot-hatch. A nice X1/9, maybe, or another Capri, or perhaps even a Renault Fuego Turbo.

Oh, bugger, I'm off to eBay again

Renault fuego, blimey, not seen one of them in decades .

I saw one on the roads about 4 or 5 months ago - a real blast from the past. I assumed that they'd all been fed to tin-worms long ago.

Still a nice looking car, IMHO - never driven one (or even been in one), though.

I was looking at MG Metros on pistonheads/ebay the other day

Funny fact: the brakes on my Audi are bigger than the wheels off my old Metro.

I had a mk2 golf gti with a VR6 engine slotted into the front. Now that was fun! As was my bro's mk1 gti with a mk2 16v engine in it.
Also had a 1989 Corrado which was a nice little coupe. Handled better than a golf too.

I had a Corrado VR6 as a company car in the late 90s (the owner of the company I worked at was a petrolhead and encouraged people to order company cars he wanted to have a shot in, when I started there were some spare company cars, so I had the choice of a Corrado VR6, a Golf VR6, a Toyota Celica or an Audi A3 Turbo).

To be honest, though, I was never that fond of it. It was quick enough on paper, but never felt that fast when you were behind the wheel (I much prefer the kick that the Coop gives you when the turbo spins up*).

I can also confirm that if your girlfriend takes you to her parents' house in Somerset and then says, "Ooo, there's snow on the top of Exmoor, we should drive up there!" that the Corrado is not the puppy for the job

* Dangerously close to being on-topic for the forum there.

You needed the vortech sc kit that my mate had on his Corrado vr6.

The one my mate had was a bright yellow mg 1.3 turbo around 70bhp I think

Cant remember the last time I seen a metro turbo in the flesh seen a few for sale on ebay they are fetching good money now my mate had a mint mk1 in light green looked great but now match for a uno turbo performance wise

I used to drive a far few of these MGs ,turbo, maestro and montego back in the late 1980s .The bodyshop i used to work for did all the crash repair for Ray Powell main Austin Rover dealer at Gants hill . I like the MG Metro at the time i think it was about 70bhp . You really had to rev the engine to get it going . The MG turbo was only a little faster with 90bhp . It had a blow through SU carb which even at the time was ancient . I did like the look of the MG turbo in all white .

maestro turbo now they were rare even in the 80s went to look at one years ago but total rust bucket bet a good one of them is worth a few quid now

That's the first Top Gear I haven't watched to the end. They are a complete set of idiots! But no doubt I'll tune in next week!

Montego clubman?
There is a shit Brown fugeo a few houses down the street. Not a turbo though.

The best one IMO. Quick in their time, good handling and plenty of hot start problems

Legendary car!





I've got a R5gtt with a stage 5 BBR engine with 12k worth of receipts, tucked away waiting for a refurb when the cash flow allows.

Do show it off on here when you get time to finish it

As for Top Gear, its the usual larking around, but is still very watchable.

I just wish they'd do a few more reviews.

Odly, I now consider Top Gear to be in the same boat as all the other crap TV you listed there

I had it recorded, as I always do. But I ended up watching the entire show in about 15 minutes. There were A few good moments but they were few... I suppose if I had downed several beers it may have been slightly more interesting.

Funny how old top gear, on Dave, seems to be more watchable than the NEW stuff...

P1 was stunning, worth watching for that bit alone.

Definitely an improvement on last week's effort.

have to agree , was good watching the P1 go around spa .

I missed the end of the P1 bit, had to go change my underwear.

Quite enjoyed it this week. That quad bike would be great for the flooded areas of the uk !!

I only caught the end with the P1 and I must say that it's amazing

2nd that
Did anybody else notice the tyre wobble of the P1 when it clipped the rumble strip (rear angle shot) in the slow-mo bit, truly scary

A much better episode, I agree. Even Clarkson's humour was better (hardest substance known to man joke). P1 was incredible and the 4C looked lovely - shame they didn't take it around the track but, judging by the rain, that would have been a pointless exercise.

Better, but still only saved by the hardware. Though that is probably as it should be in a "car show". I've ended up watching the first 2 as stepson major (aged 15...) has chosen the telly for the last 2 Sundays. Last week's was just a persuasive argument for euthanasia, whereas the feature on the P1 was amazing. I can't help thinking that F1 really has moved the supercar game forward and in 10 years I bet there will be a lot more ERS devices on normal road cars, not just wet dream exotica. As Hammond pointed out - there will be a lot more very light cars like the Alfa, so hi-tech power units may be the only way to get high-performance thrills. Formula E anyone...?

Oh the P1

Would have been good to see how the Alfa compared around the track, I'm guessing it needs to be atleast a few seconds quicker than an elise/vx220 to justify the extra cash.

That F Type Coupe they showed a couple of times does more for me than the Alfa. The shriek of that engine
.

I thought last nights episode was quite entertaining . With the 4C and the Mclaren P1 and Mays segment about the armoured vehicles in afganistan .

As has been said, a much better episode - roll on Spa Italia !!!

The 4C looks incredible, but would I buy one over a Cayman? Luckily it's not a dilemma I'm likely to have anytime soon.

Enjoyed the show though. Everything except the tedious 'news' segment was genuinely entertaining.

I was kinda hoping the 4C would be "normal" money. It looks like it is based on the Mito platform, so is small hence the 1.7 litre (turbo) engine.

I know it is to keep it compact and good power to weight ration, but I'm not sure I could pay £45k for a 1.7 lire 4 cylinder engine... not that I will ever have that kind of money !

I know I wouldn't. While I'm sure that the 4C is an amazing car which would stuff the Cayman on a track most of the time I'd rather have climate control, power steering and not having to deal with the Alfa Romeo dealer network



Ditto, unfortunately.

Quite an interesting feature on the P1's rival Porsche 918.
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/porsche-918-spyder-first-drive-2013-11-26
It might have to do as the P1s are sold out.

Exactly. These reasons, along with a lack of any type of storage, mean it appears it's useless even as a weekend car. And if you're going to buy a very impractical car for pure driving pleasure, why would you not get a Caterham or an Atom for £20k less?

It looks gorgeous. Much nicer in my opinion than the Mc P1!
Sadly £45k is too much. In 5 or 6 years time, based on Alfa residual's you'll be able to pick one up for less than £10k?
I'd definately have one then as a weekend car???
In the meantime perhaps I should revisit buying a Brera!

If the weather stays the same more people will buy the quad bike than the Alfa....

Every time I see the 4C I wonder whether I should have blown my redundancy on one. Two things make me glad I didn't -
1. In standard set up, it tends to understeer. I actually think the Cayman might be quicker and possibly more fun.
2. By the time it turned up, the house I bought instead might have earned enough for a down-payment on a second-hand Cayman.

Alfa have announced they're upping production to 5000 units per year. I'm not sure I understand why they went for a CF tub rather than a more Lotus-like design. If you watch the production video, you'll see why they're so pricey.

They'll never be cheap - special Alfas do tend to hold their value - SZ ES30s have remained pretty much their original price.

Tell me you're joking!?! It's a bespoke carbon fibre tub, hand made, with small light engine giving a superb power to weight ratio. To put a bigger, heavy engine would defeat whole ideology of the car.

Not aimed at you, but quite a lot of people don't really grasp progress. Head on over to AO and you're confronted with things like "Alfa should be petrol only" If cars didn't evolve we would all still have model Ts!

Fair comment. To a point.

Ok, I'd forgotten it was a bespoke carbon tub. I'd assumed that it was the usual story where the manufacturer bases their sports car on a similar sibling like the Mito and Punto. You can see the resemblance to the Mito, and similar size too.

I did agree that a bigger engine would not be in the ethos of the car, but I was merely making the point that it felt odd to have a sporty Alfa with an in line 4 pot (yes I know Suds had flat 4s..).

I'd want that V6 noise ! Though, as you say, since this is "progress," why didn't they use a 3 cylinder to save more weight ? Would have sounded almost like a V6 then?! Smart car anyone??

This was a big factor in me getting the Coupe 5 cyl rather than the conventional 4.

I wanted something different. For me the engine is the heart and soul of the car, and I drive a 4 cylinder DI turbo every day of the week.

I'd want my sports car to be different. No offence to you 16V chaps. Just a matter of aural preference.

Excuse my further ignorance, but what is "AO?"

I found your post a little patronising if I'm honest. We are all car enthusiasts here, and inferring I'm an automotive motive luddite is a bit harsh.

I still love the Mito.. sorry 4C. I think I'd have one over a Porsche just to a) be different b) have have a bespoke carbon tub

Alfa Owner?

Not anal orifice then...

The 4C will be bought by people with money who can cherish it and it will spend most of its life in a warm garage just like the 8c . It will hold its value . I like the way this car is basic in a way just like cars of the 70s were . No power steering and only the basics . Both my cars has no power steering either and i would not have it any other way especially the strada .
A new season of fifth gear will be back on the discovery channel shortly

After seeing the P1 accelerate from 160-190, personally think it would destroy the Porsche if that takes "13 secs" to get from 125-180....
The mclaren seemed to do 160-190 in about 4-5 secs...
Mental!!!

There seems to be a battle breaking out for Nurburgring supremacy between the two.
I'd be happy to volunteer my services if they need somebody with experience of hustling British composite cars (Steel, rust, body filler, and fibreglass in this case) around quickly.

The 918 is a bit boring to look at, similar front end from a Fezza 360 anyone?
The stats are amazing though and I can see someone changing their name...4 wheel drive, 4 wheel steer, o-60 in 2.5 secs lends to a short track?

After doing 6 hours gardening today I'd still sooner have the quad bike. Would have been bloody useful to get through Yalding today...........

The P1, the Alfa, and anything else would have been completely useless unless I knew a sneaky way round to my customers over hillocks (in the Coupe).

Phew, the second show was much improved over the last

I still have issues with the show format but that first episode was one of the worst ever, a new low...

..hey hey.............Like I was saying
Top gear review

No comments on last night's Top Gear?

I'm genuinely asking as, unfortunately, that Alfa was so hideous I tore out my own eyes and ate them.

I quite like the look of it from the rear, but the front is all wrong. The wheel arches overhanging the front wheels is especially bad.

Last night's episode was probably the worst of this series so far. The bit at the end was idiotic and not funny, same goes for the 'pizza incident'.

Having that overpowered Caterham was potentially interesting but ruined by a wet track. The only reason to have that car on is to see if can beat the fastest time.

The Jake Whitehall interview was probably the only decent segment.

Good show IMHO, loved the Alfa, loved the quick Caterham even more.

It was a good show last night . Jurys out on the alfa . I liked it from certain angles then i dont . It got alfa spider (mrs robinson ) front end ,corvette side ,coupe looking side of the bonnet and triump Vitesse rear end .

I only saw last night's show from the 6x6 segment, which was Top-Gear-by-numbers.

I didn't see the Alfa - what was it called so I can join in the styling debate?

It's called the Disco Volante (so that blind people can laugh at you as well).

Edited to add: Here you go, you may wish to have some kind of non-leak bag nearby before clicking that link.

Thanks Andrew, I think.

I'd like to like it and some details are ok. But overall, it just tanks.

Most of what happens above the waistline is ok, most of what happens below looks like several different car projects got corrupted into one file. What on earth is all that space doing behind the front wheel?

I didn't like the Alfa either. Certainly not after they said how much it was.

The 6x6 Merc was impressive but also garishly expensive for what it is. I'm sure you could build a nifty 4x4 for £100k that could drive up and down sandunes all day long (safer/faster/more fun) then save your Dirhams for a RangeRover to get there and back.

Was also a shame for the R620 that it was raining. I'd bet it would be pretty darn fast. Didn't like the 'caterham' edition one bit.

The Alfa wouldn't be so bad in my opinion if they hadn't butchered an already lovely 8C to make it. I get the individual nature of the car but to me it looks like a 70s concept car.

What I can't work out is why nobody mentions that it is a "retro" styling exercise based on the original, much like when the Fiat 500 and Lancia Stratos "retro" concepts came out (and I guess, if I really have to mention them, the Mini and Beetle, plus several US things like the Mustang and Dodge Charger etc.)

Oh dear - what are we going to do with you lot? True art takes some work to appreciate - like great songs: you never like them the first, second, third time - but then it grows on you and you love it forever. That's how the Disco Volante is - you'll never grow tired of looking at it. I really wasn't sure at first but then it really started to grown on me. And that engine note is just incredible!!!!

Altogether now:

D-I-S-C-O!

D - She is Dire

I - Ill-considered

S - Super-something or other

(cont. P94)

I thought the Disco Volante was awesome.... apart from the front! The front wheel arches just didn't do it for me!
Maybe they look a lot better in real life, because from the photos and film it looks rubbish!

The front end, particularly the bonnet and lights reminded me of a Fiat Barchetta.

barchetta far better looking, possibly an ugly 612 Scaglietti

Honestly, would you guys really care what the car looks like if it sounds as good as that Alfa... it made my spine tingle.

They need to move the TG studio to a country where it isn't constantly persisting it down with rain, there's been 3 cars on that track that haven't performed well due to the conditions. I'd love to see the Zenvo go round a dry track.

Can't imagine where you mean, Jimbo...?

I enjoyed tonight's episode.

The cycling bit, whilst very silly and predictable, did make me laugh.

That Porsche though Hugely impressive in that it had lower CO2 than a Prius.

Me too,much enjoyed .

Meh. I must admit to drooling over the Porsche, but the cycling bit was just 20 minutes of wasted airtime imo. Given how serious the cycling issue is becoming, I can see how it could actually be downright offensive to some.
Aaron Paul's driving was impressive though, particularly for a gent unaccustomed to having the gear lever on the correct side.

Same here Jim. I spent the first 45 minutes bored to death and unimpressed.

But then the 918 came on....... wow. Really looking forward to the P1/918 battle now - and the Christmas (March) special.

Ah, so many comments...."sigh" I just tune in, hang on & enjoy the ride. It is what it is....

I've changed my mind, the 918 please...although how they have managed to reduce the CO2 emissions and still produce blue flames from the exhausts beats me

Easy: the emissions are part of the mpg test cycle; it's only a few miles long. If you can run it on the batteries, that counts as no emissions...

All new cars in this league are just conning the system. Low tax, low emmisions, good mpg and supercar performance. Nonsense.

The 918 produces 74 somethings of CO2 and the Fiat coupe was I think above 240...which one pays to drive in London?

I feel the same about this. Hybrid technology is just tax dodging.
There's no way that carrying round a ton of batteries and running on electricity that was generated by burning fossil fuels is kinder to the environment.

84% of the UK's energy comes through burning fossil fuels.

Current taxes...
Petrol / Diesel - 58p/ litre
LPG - Around 31p / litre
Electricity 0

And obviously not having to pay congestion charge or VED is big selling point on a half-million pound car. Practically pays for itself.

If the 'tax dodge' encourages people to buy electric/hybrid vehicles then it also encourages manufacturers to put money into researching and developing them, and the problem of how the electricity is generated is moved to a government-level decision, rather than a individual one.

I'd imagine from a Govt. level it provides an excuse for increasing VED for the vast majority of motorists in the name of (but not actually for the benefit of) the environment.

London is one of the few places where running an electric car is a better idea (i.e. nothing moves, the fumes are nasty) but that doesn't mean it works in the rest of the UK.

Sorry, I'm struggling to see what your point is as you seem to be swerving between:

a. The government is wrong to offer tax incentives for running an electric car.

b. The government is just wrong.

c. Manufacturers are wrong to produce electric cars

d. Manufacturers are wrong to sell electric cars outside of London.

e. Fuel is taxed too heavily/electricity isn't taxed enough

f. Something to do with fossil fuels

Would you care to pick one of those, or are you going to add a new whinge to the list?

I would wager that the decision of these hypercar manufacturers to go down the hybrid route is more to do with the target audience rather than anything else.

Hollywood's a list likes to pretend to be environmentally conscious, hence the abundance of Prius among them.

They have a Prius for going to the shops/talking to chat show hosts and a supercar for revving down Hollywood Blvd.

Now they can have one car for both.

...and still feel prious

Except of course that they neither carry a ton of batteries or use power from the national grid it generated from wasted energy during braking etc. The MPG rate speaks for itself.

We recently skipped hybrid tech. altogether and bought a Nissan Leaf. It's the best car-buying decision I've ever made (Coupe aside!) and we are set to save over £3000 per year. Having a car which will never visit a petrol station is pretty weird, but in a good way.

Nice saving if that includes the cost of the car.

Does that include the cost of charging it?

Yes. A full charge costs less than £2.50.

That's a little selective. The main source of charge for the Prius is the on-board generator powered by the petrol engine or plugging into the national grid. Regenerative braking is small by comparison. If I had one it would be on plug-in charge every night to take advantage of the tax free electricity.

The Prius weighs 1325 kg compared with about 1050 kg for a car in that class. Not a ton, but the same as the combined weight of all the passengers.

As this seems to be some kind of personal attack I'll politely exit and leave you to have the last word.

A personal attack wasn't my intention, I was just trying to work out what you were arguing against.

Agreed you can charge them but it isn't required. Even if they are charging using the internal generator its still going to be included in the overall MPG (perhaps not the official figures though admittedly). If they are charged from the mains, a small proportion of the power could be attributed to renewables or other sources. Then there is in argument for (or rather against) diffuse pollution....

What cars are you classing as in the same class? Seems to me most cars of a similar size (Megane, Giuliette, Golf, Civic, Pug 308, BMW 1, Focus) are in around the same weight as the Prius. Obviously spec dependent but the gap in not as large as you suggest.

FYI tax (VAT) is applicable on electricity (but at a reduced 5% rate) but your fuel rates also only account for duty and not VAT.

You do all realise that this is waaaay too intellectual for a Top Gear thread, right?
Skins, is it wrong of me to think that Hell is the perfect place for an electric Nissan?

The point I was making is that the mpg figures the manufactures claim for these super car hybrids are so far from the truth. As Barnacle stated, these figures are obtained from the test route which can be done solely/mainly in electric mode from a fully charged set of batteries. The P1 can do what....7 miles electric. After that the gas guzzler has to fire up unless you only drive it a conservativen 7 miles per day.

It doesn't bother me at all. Just stating these low emissions and high mpg figures are all just a con. Would love to see the real world figures.

A big reason manufacturers of high performance cars are doing it is to bring the level of their average cars emissions down reducing their tax...I believe.

Yes you may be right. Anyway the Porsche left me rather cold. No doubt is engineering excellence but like the Veyron its a bit of an irrelevance.

Really guys, you're discussing a super car worth over £700.000 the whys & the what nots. Again this is exactly the same as Top Gear, it is what it is. At a rough guess I don't think anyone on here could afford such a car or even come close.

Stating the obvious the likes of these super cars are aimed at someone with money & who actually wants one. At the end of the day it really is an expensive toy. Hell who wouldn't want to rage the beast round a circuit. If I'm reading him right, I kinda go with AndrewR, car companies can make what they like, petrol,electric or what have you, in any shape or form.

Kinda broke a wee rule of mine, not to get involved with too much conversation about Top Gear..

I saw a review by Chris Harris on the P1 on YouTube > HERE < very interesting. If you want to really know about cars, forget about Top Gear

My car (BMW M135i) was on Topgear last night. Very impressed with the laptime of 1m25.1 but I was disappointed Jeremy lost it aquaplaning so turned against it.

That's quicker than both the M3 and M5 as well as some other motoring exotica including a Lamborghini Gallardo spyder and a Lotus exige S!!

Topgear powerlap times

Must admit. A 3 litre straight 6 turbo does do it for me so much more than a 4 pot.

120 on a lake of a track and stupidly wide tyres, then add in full throttle and I'll assume tc was switched off, well it's going to spin isn't it?!?!

The merc would have beaten the BM's lap time I reckon, but never the less a great showing from the baby "soft" m.

Shows hows how over priced and rated golf GTI's have become.

Exactly. How much did they quote for the one they had; 30k? Seems a lot for a car from a company that translates to 'people's car'

I don't think VW are legally bound by their name to only produce 'everyman' cars (if they are then they really dropped a clanger with the Phaeton W12).

Also I didn't take away from the segment that the GTI is over-rated.

Not at all. Just think it's interesting how the brand seems to have moved upmarket over the years.

I took the quote to mean it was rated highly, but pricey as a result.

Heh, one of those moments where punctuation is critical.

I read Muzzie's comment as, "over-priced and -rated".

As for the brand, I think that for more than 30 years now the Golf has aimed at 'classless' and, I think, does it pretty well.

I seriously doubt I'll ever be able to buy another new car, let alone one with pretensions like the Golf GTi. £30k? Really? For a hatchback that's had "a bit of work done". F**k me!

It has remarkably well, no question. The trouble with a 30K car is that it's no longer attainable by the masses. I'd think you'd have to agree that it's most likely middle to upper class customers that well go for it. And if it's aspirational I don't believe it's classless anymore.

In real (inflation adjusted) terms, that's still less than the coupe was, new... not much less, though.

And I couldn't have afforded that either!

To sell a 2.0 4 pot VW for the same price as a 6 pot BMW (M no less) would have been laughable a few years ago. I'm not quite sure what is happening to the price of new cars but it seems they are gaining some serious weight.
I'm sure if you looked at the original brief for a Golf GTI the current model would no longer fulfil the spirit of the requirements. It used to compete against 20 something Pugs (19k otr for a GTI) XR escorts (ST2 £22K OTR) Megane cup £25k. Even the overpriced opel VXR (£27k) is 10% cheaper. Personally the Golf would be the last hot hatch on my list, especially since the Leon has just done a sub 8 minute NBR lap.

True, if you find the nearest current car from the Fiat group though...

Probably something to do with all the extra kit and additional spec. Also the cars like the Golf have got larger - the new golf is circa 500mm longer, 200mm wider than the original model

Which is what - a warm Bravo? 1.4 MultiAir turbo at £17k? We've all made harder decisions than that...

The Golf has a record for reliability and rock-solid residual values*, which mean a lot more to buyers than how quickly it will get round the Nurburgring.

And for most private buyers the issue isn't what the car costs, but the difference between what the car costs now and what it's worth when you replace it in 3 years time. On that basis how does the Golf compare with the other hoy hatches?

* I don't know how well deserved this reputation is, but the Golf certainly has it.

The GTI will be picked up by the Company car customers, it will likely be £100 a month cheaper than the BMW (They have always been expensive)

^^This, and lets not forget the superb build quality which accompanies the car.

You get what you pay for!

How good is it actually? I remember a mate who had a mk4 gti. The window fell out on it. My sister had a beetle of a similar vintage and it was quite possibly the worse car I've ever come across. The quality of the plastics was laughable.

I once asked an Audi sales manager why an A3 was more than a Golf he said:

Because the quality of the trim is just that bit worse and the finish just isn't quite there.

Audi is comparable to BMW, VW to Renault and that ilk hence my opinion that the Golf is over priced and you're better off with a Skoda or a Seat.

only have to look at the numerous vag group dsg, engine, etc issues to know that their marketing men are superb!

Are you running some sort of master class in vagueness?

Are you kidding? That is precision terminology from a vehicle sales manager!

No, what I mean is that, firstly, I was confused as to whether Muzzie though the Golf was "Over-priced and rated" or "Over-priced and -rated" and now, as read, his last post seems to say that the A3 is more expensive than the Golf because it (the A3) has lower build quality and trim.

Quiet day at work, Andrew...?

That's how I read it the first time.

I think he meant to say that it was the Golf's build quality which was worse.

Sorry Andrew it was written rather badly - my point was the golf is over priced and over rated.


And yes the point was the quality of materials and finish on a VW is of a lower quality.

Anyway that's enough Golf bashing from me.

I thought part 2 of the Burma trip was very good . And at the end Kelly heroes style ending why do they have to talk over the music from the film.

I thought part 1 was better.

the best of top gear, is the 3 mates mucking about. the rest is rather poor acting

I'm not sure what this programme is meant to be anymore, I know its a good earner for bbc but I prefer the more hands on car reviews as (the Mclaren p1 v Porsche 918) rather than the scripted mini adventures. Maybe they should diverse into reviewing caravans and motor homes

Maybe they should diverse into reviewing caravans and motor homes [/quote]

o no! no more caravans

the vietnam mini adventure was brill, just 3 mates with no more sense than a group of 17yr olds.

Sorted that for you, ziggy.

"Burma" Yes i like this format, but i think its a bit removed from "topgear" though
They would do really well with this format for a sort of informative documentary program whilst retaining the humor and stupidness that will appeal to a wider audience than the run of the mill documentaries.
The North pole one was good (3-4 years ago) but i cant remember if that was a feature length program or not?
Top marks and i learnt something about Burma too!

I feel a bit ripped off as I enjoyed it until just before they cut the tape, as in the shot you can see the bamboo covering a metal structure!

Just watched that bit again and cant see any metal frame.

Sure there is something more sturdy than bamboo under there. It's a 'show' remember.

It's the clip 56mins in as the camera pans across the side of the bridge just before they cut the tape.

To Kayjey's point, the BBC would never get insurance to cover the guys to cross a flimsy bridge.

When my wife worked with Hammond a couple of years ago she had to ask him not to come by helicopter to the shot location because of insurance reasons.

A big reason for that . He flies a Robinson R44 which does not have the best safety record .Its a two bladed semi rigid 6 cylinder piston engine one . With his money you would think he could afford a turbine twin engined one .

Do you think the crane collapse was planned? It would be fairly obvious it would topple on a moving lorry with no support anchoring

Do you think it *wasn't*?

The only unplanned events on that programme were the hamster falling off his horse, and some of the breakdowns.

Oh well i enjoyed it! regardless of the fact we all know its scripted! and was probably built by the Army It is Entertainment, and entertaining it was!

Oh come on Like a stuck record I repeat, tune in, hang on & enjoy the ride........

It is what it is.

Stupid, but entertaining. I downloaded it last night and watched it. Kept me amused for an hour.