house buying-chains how does it work

Hi,
We generally scout rightmove etc dreaming away at houses we can afford but I have seen a house in a place we like and completely in price range.
Thing is we haven't even got our house on the market as it wasn't taken seriously until now.
We are dur for an evaluation tomorrow hopefully to check feasibility but how does this all work. Do I need mine sold before making any offer? The house is vacant currently also.
I hope/believe we have 30% equity in which used on the next house would be around 20%

Please educate me

You can do what you want. The weakest link in the chain is the person at the bottom who has not got a buyer. The chain relies on the new first time buyer at the bottom.

You can put in an offer at any time but it is not all confirmed till the contracts are exchanged. It is a trust based routine with the Estate agents being referees, and like them they are .

The answers to your questions depend heavily on what the market is like in your area.

In my area we would probably politely decline your request to view the majority of properties as demand is so much higher than supply.

We have loads of people who walk through the door telling us that they want to buy a house but they're not on the market yet, "but don't worry, my house will sell really quickly." Perhaps, but it won't sell quickly enough to fend off an offer from a cash buyer, which I have a big list of waiting for the same house.

In your area it may be different and it may be slower paced. Take the advice of a few local independent agents to find out what the market is doing in your area.

Bear in mind they want your business and don't let them massage your ego. It's not uncommon for agents to overvalue your house to win the instruction.

Get them to back up their valuation with comparable evidence and ask them why you should choose them over the rivals or over a cheaper alternative (online agencies, for example).

Thanks John, so if I have no buyer the house I buy can't go through?

Does everyone exchange on the same day? So the advantage would be to sell with the same agent who is selling the house I want. I presume they will want the commission from both properties and More likely to mediate.

Don't believe everything the agent says his sole goal is to get commission so he May drop your price like a ton of bricks to sell it easily with little effort!
Do your homework checkout actual sold for prices and decide on what you think your property is worth!
Work out your budget pointless budgeting on your high price when you may need to drop your price then the affordability may be a bit tight!
My house moves have cost me approximately £7000 made up by estate agent fees conveyance mortgage stamp duty removal van (did it myself) this will obviously vary with price of houses and your negotiated fees
Choose your agent carefully some will work hard for you others hope the houses sell themselves!
You may not be the most popular person to people you were dealing with but if something does not feel right don't be afraid to pull out and walk away no matter how much you or others have spent, if it's wrong it's another 7odd grand to move again
Research as much as you can about neighbours
Don't assume you can get a garage or access to one obviously I'm being general don't know what your looking at but they are the sort of things to think of
Nobody will take you seriously until you have a verified buyer!
Best of luck!

Generally exchange is on the same day!
then there's that strange moment when you fell like it's your house still but it actually belongs to the guy that's annoying you because he's trying to move his stuff in!

Yep, this is frustrating. We couldn't get the vendors out of ours. They didn't bother to pack, caused loads of damage to the finish as they left and were very threatening.

From a different perspective, you need to start making sure you have everything in place for a mortgage application. The main one is making sure your bank accounts are as clean as possible as the mortgage provider will want to know everything. Keep costs as low as possible for the next 3 months to help affordability. If you say you spend £300 on food each month but your bank statements show £500, then that's what they'll take for their affordability calcs, whether that's reality or not...

There isn't any harm in expressing an interest in the property. You don't have to make an offer.

Check out Zoopla to see house valuations in your area and the area the other house is in. Also worth checking out ourproperty too.

As others have noted, the whole process is dependent on the market in the local area and the property you have to sell.

I have just sold one of my houses in under a week, for almost the asking price, but in our area two-bed houses are in short supply and good ones even rarer! I had three offers after 3 days.

Two were cash buyers and the third was a first time with mortgage arranged. Anybody in a chain wasn't going to get a look in!

I have three-bed to market in January and I don't think that's going to be so easy.

The house is in an area we want to settle , very few houses come u for sale where we are but just don't know the true value of our house yet.
The values in the locality go from 10k less then what I would like to achieve to 30k plus.

I would be happy to get what I paid original and paying the additional mortgage for the house I am interested in. I don't think we have enough time realistically to sort things to make this other house a feasible purchase so likely staying where we are.

Our aim is not to spend the additional that I need to on our house if there is enough equity and put that to our potential future purchase.

I have a mortgage advisor who only deals with buy to lets and he's never been busier than now. Plenty of cash about with lots of people raiding small pension pots to enable them to buy a second/third property... A lot of competition unfortunately.

Is that the values you see in the Estate Agents window or the actual sale price?

The only way to judge it accurately is through what the houses have sold for.

Zoopla, Land registry and ourproperty are where I started before instructing agents.

I think you are right in so far as they will have more incentive to mediate, but personally I would generally feel better if I was selling with a different agent- that way they are only dependent on what they get for your property for their commission, rather than encouraging you to take a bath as they've got two commissions to think of.

(Many, but not all) agents will be happy to get a marginally lower commission for a lot less effort by encouraging you towards a lower price once they've got the mandate.

Obviously, in a typical scenario you won't know at the time you put your house on the market who will be selling the property you'll end up buying. Usually therefore you'll be best picking the best one you can for your circumstances

The advantage of selling your house with the agent who has the house you want is that they are more likely to encourage their vendor to accept an offer from you than one from somebody else.

And of course they get double the fees!

I'll freely admit you know the sector much better than me, but do you think they actually would encourage them to accept an offer from somebody with no buyer (whose house they were selling) vs a cash buyer?

There's an element of double or quits I guess, but it does make both lots of fees dependant on selling the first house compared to banking one lot, and seeing if the first house owners still want to sell?

There are some that would certainly try, whether they'd be successful or not is another matter.



True, we try to avoid chains if at all possible. Far too many sales fall through and having the issue exacerbated by having several potential people to pull out is uncomfortable at best.

There are also a growing number of buyers who will try to use their own property as leverage. "Get me this house for this price and I'll let you sell mine."

I'm currently going through this process.
I choose a independent estate agent, say sold my parents places in 6 days for top money.
They sold mine for £5k more than I hoped for to a investor in 5 days too.
Just had a offer accepted on another place with no chain, so hopefully it should be straight forward.
Finally have a garage to store my coop !!!

Reubs - I sold my last 2 houses privately using an online agency to get my houses listed on rightmove.

Saved me over 8k in fees, and I got more money for both houses than any of the valuations agents gave. Both my last 2 houses I'd put a lot of blood and sweat in making them the homes they were and I'd be buggered if I wanted to give £4k+ to an agent, none of which have any code of conduct or required training - then having to deal with a 21 year old who's never owned a home in selling it!

This thread gives some useful links - http://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co....e-on-rightmove/

Come on, tell us what you really think

It's the same with anything in life- a good estate agent is worth their weight in gold and a bad one is worse than letting a monkey deal with it. Unfortunately there's a lot of hairy estate agents...

We have had a valuation today at about 5-8 k more than I expected.
This makes it feasible as to have the additional available if indeed it sold near that amount.
We like the agent but the selling fees seem very high. The fees are £3k plus vat for a house they would market at offers over £105k..

I don't know your area, but that seems really high. How does it compare to your other valuations and quotes?

That exactly what we thought. Apparently fixed fee with dixons, we are arranging another valuation and possibly using as suggested by Dan an online estate agaent

The best valuation is by comparing the local market. Agents will tell you whatever they think you want to hear!

A well presented property may sell above the market and a poor one below - checking the competition is always wise.

Definitely go with on-line.

I just sold a house for £155k and my fees were £599 (agent), plus £560 for solicitors.

Will be doing the same again after Christmas.

The fee is high in percentage terms, but not necessarily in monetary terms. It may be the norm in your area.

We’re lucky if we can get a fee above 1% around here due to the high number of agents and fierce competition for business. However, we don’t generally sell anything below £250k and our average sale is around £500k, so we still manage to get decent fees and earn a living.

Using an online agent might be right for you provided you go in with your eyes open and you keep your expectations low.

Their business model is based on high volume and constant turnover of stock. As a result, their ‘local expert’ (the person they employ to be the local representative of the business, who will come out to see you and take the photos, etc.) will be covering a huge patch and probably be dealing with stock of available properties much higher than he or she can realistically cope with. If they’re not, it means they aren’t making any money, which will inevitably result in them quitting at some point.

The people that work for online agencies are usually recruited on the promise of something like ”earn £70k per annum working the hours you want” which hopefully I don’t need to tell you is completely unrealistic. Even if they get half of the £600 they charge each punter they need to sell 20 properties per month and that doesn’t take into account any of their costs.

Bear in mind also that there will be little to no aftersales service. They might have a call centre somewhere who deal with chain-progression but the reality is that they are call centre workers who have never been to your town and couldn’t care less about whether or not your property completes. They’ll get their £6.50 per hour regardless.

In your situation, I would recommend you get at least two more opinions from reputable high street agents and see what they’ll offer fee-wise. At least this way you’ll have an average valuation to work from and you can take that to the online agency if that’s still the way you want to go.

Agreed that you have to be careful of which agent you go with (on-line or on the ground), but I think you are in danger of generalising here about the service provided by on-line agents.

There are poor ones like there are poor local estate agents, you just need to do the homework first.

I'm not going to name ours, but we have had very good service - the photographer spent almost an hour with me and also produced the floor plan whilst there. Quality of finished photos was excellent. I also got to choose which to use etc.

We got an EPC as part of the package, plus the listings on Rightmove etc. are 'premium'

I also have a named account manager / negotiator, with direct line number and scheduled calls whenever needed to take us through the process.

I have seen the sort that you describe too ... but then one or two of the traditional estate agents locally have given an equally poor service!

As ever, do your homework and go with who you trust!

I would try another estate agent, I paid 1%.
I tried to view a property via Tepilo and can't say I was impressed with the site, I don't fancy selling with them.
Try to find a independent agent.

Trying another but just don't get back to me. Seems they don't like to sell houses either.
the mine field that is house buying eh.

Thank you for all your help guys.. Keep you posted on what happens next.

Ok guys, new question.

Looking at houses and obtaining valuations.

Mortgage in principle questions now.
I know that these only last for a number of months? Should I have this in place before offering on a house?

It's a good idea to speak to a mortgage advisor prior to looking at houses seriously.

They'll be able to give you an idea of what you can afford to borrow and what it'll cost you. Look for an independent one who is able to offer whole of market.

Don't just go to your bank and certainly don't use one that a corporate estate agent has 'in house'.

However, an agreement in principle is basically just a lender looking at some basic info about you and saying "yeah, we'll probably lend you this". It's no guarantee that they will lend you anything.

Ok, slight step closer.

Booked a second valuation in for next week.
Seen the bank today. Provided a mortgage promise, £207k eeekk.

Quite a decent amount up here in the West Midlands.

That's was based upon minimum figures aswell and hopefully a better situation as a few debts go in the next month.
Will talk to an advisor also.

Next, my house goes up for sale!

My requirements for looking-
2 bed minimum
Double garage- or single with large drive
Double glazed and central heated
West Midlands and outskirts,so Shropshire,Worcestershire possibly Warwickshire.

Max 200k A lot lower if possible. A guide though if my house achieves its value and mortgage is given.

Bloody hell!

How about a 50k French home!

Need to convince the woman..and get some work.. France sounds good though

Try and avoid mortgaging yourself to the hilt, you never know what nasty money-grabbing gremlin is around the corner.

Rural France is not for everyone. But plenty of young Brits making a go of it round here.
Good Brit plumbers are needed though.

So which online estate agents have you guys used? Be good to get some honest feedback.

Ok, if anyone still reading. The house has been on the market since Monday and we have an open day tommorow.

7 viewings booked! We shall see.

Went with Purplebricks in the end. Estate agent has been great so far, everything said has been completed quickly and efficiently.

See what tommorow brings...

Good luck for tomorrow, I hope it's a quick stress free sale

Best of luck. It's a bit of a game, guessing what people are thinking! Often the ones that appear unimpressed with your house are more likely to come back than the ones who seem to love everything.
I hope you get a couple of people genuinely interested - helps them offer more if they know they could lose it!

Good luck with it.

Good luck with the sale!

The estate agent said exactly that.

Cheers guys,today is Judgement day. Unfortunately im not there as im working. The Mrs and estate agent are handling this.

That's the best place to be today, leave it to the ladies

Baking bread and fresh coffee! The fragrances of successful house viewings!

Ok the crazy people have left. 5 appointments turned up and 2 no shows.
1 feedback from a viewer already. Not quite In the position to buy but feedback about the house left was good for all to see.
Others generally gave nothing away apparently apart from one.
Apparently cash buyer being pushy asking the Mrs what she wants for the house.
Estate agent was great and dealt with it.

We shall see the outcome.

Sounds like a very decent result as an introduction to the merry-go-round. Let's hope one of the mystery folk comes good!

Sounds promising Reuben, fingers crossed you get a call informing you of a solid offer next week

Exciting times and hope it all turns out rosy very soon!

Crazy week. Are house is only on at £109k which may seem crazy to the southerners for a 3 bed semi.
Recieved one offer, 1k less than we were willing to accept.
They weren't in a position to buy but showing intent. There place has to sell first.
We had a viewing on Monday evening. Guy who's buying lives in London. His brother viewed and now made three offers. His last offer we are willing to accept but he needs to proves his credentials as we all ready have a further 5 viewings booked for Sunday.

It is 3k more than we were originally wanted so pretty good but feel alittle insecure that he hasn't seen it himself, just his brother has.

We shall wait and see

It's not measurable in a monetary sense, but there's something to be said for having confidence in the buyer.

6 viewings today. 5 in the last hour! Wow, craziness!
Original Offer person yet to prove he can buy the house!

So stressful

Stressful it is, but unless he starts playing sensibly very soon the offerer is a non-starter I'm afraid

Ok, we have progress somewhat from where this all started.. Certainly started speculative.

Our house is sold, we have had an offer on another house accepted and that vendor has had an offer accepted at that end.

A detached house with detached double garage so significantly better.

Paperwork is with all parties solicitors and progressing. Few hiccups. Stitch up from our bank(mortgage) now with a broker.

Lots to go but started getting rid of stuff now.

Long road ahead but in the right direction..

Fingers crossed for you both!

Hope it all goes smoothly, Reuben...

Whereabouts is it?

Good luck, keep calm and a sense of perspective - at least you're not pregnant !

Closer to you mate, old hill.

Cheers guys... Double garage is cool. If the cinq goes in sideways in the garage I may have space for another little motor in front..

Excellent. Easy to get into Brum, the motorway etc. Haden Hill park is close and property is good value

Last time we moved, it was crazy apesh*i*t till the chain was established, then all of a sudden it was like a communications blackout - couldn't get anything out of anyone. Then eventually a date was agreed and back to the madnesss...
BTW - I'm just over the way from Old Hill, up the road from Blackheath - you may see me tootling about(ahem).
Good luck with move!

Good luck Reubs. Funny thing is, I am trying to delay my chain to time it to moving to my holiday period back in the UK ..... I know, bad boy!

Nice one Reubs, can't beat a good housewarming party

Cheers guys, it's our second hous so slightly up the chain. Back closer to Brum aswell. Ticks a lot of boxes for us.

Phil, spi don't blame you stalling. Didn't imagine ours going so quickly at all.

Simon, I know black health very as my brother business is there. You may see my brother sprint blue around blackheath occasionally aswell.

House warming for sure Steve. No neighbours to really worry about the noise

Ok, progress update.

We move in tommorow! Long awaited but here.

Lots of issues and found estate agents are complete and utter arsholes generally. Apparently our solicitors and the people were buying off are putting complaints towards one of the agents for badgering everyone for trying to force the exchange date before it can feasibly happen.

Had price reductions, new mortgage offers , delays with our buyers and who were buying from.

I wont move again unless it is abroad I reckon.

But we are nearly there for sure. Picking up a Luton van shortly!

It's a tough business, Reuben, but I'm sure you won't regret it. First night in a new home always feels special! Congratulations.

Yes, generally they dont really want to do what they are contracted to do - ie: act as YOUR agent to do as YOU instruct.

Issues at the moment near to me with a relative just putting her house on the market - the writeup particulars are absolutely horrendous, with spelling mistakes and repeated statements in the blurb, and all padded out with largely irrelevant local data. I suppose they think the more words they put in makes the charge for doing nothing more justifiable.
They even have got the hump because weve insisted on attended viewings by them.
Trying to convince the seller to change agents, but then will it be much of the same rubbish with whoever you choose ?.

(Apologies to any Coupe drivers who are estate agents ! )

Pleased it's all finally happening for you Reuben,


Ones that stick in my mind are an agent In Towcester who described a bathroom as "having a matching yellow shite" and one in Bognor Regis who advertised that the house was "in wanking distance of Bognor railway station"

Are you sure those were spelling mistakes?

That made me giggle for sure.

I took a step back a few weeks ago as i seem to be doing all the work.

I told the solicitor's and estate agents we pay you for your services and that i shouldn't be chasing stuff they should already be doing.

Will sad moving Jim as it was my first house. Onwards and upwards though

Exactly my experience with most estate agents! on 3 moves
Would never believe a single word that comes out of most their mouths! we did the same chasing, suggesting they try contacting some people that were interested showing them around our house, as estate agents were too busy! yadayadayada!
Only ever liked one guy who sold our house in 2 hours did all the ground work chasing etc was happy he got his commision all the rest i have ever dealt with were total tossbags!

Got my completion date, buying a 3 bed dormer bungalow. The whole experience has been stress. The estate agents and solicitors have been a shambles. You're so right about that.You have to harrangue, pester and annoy them or nothing gets done. You're paying them a four figure sum yet it feels like they're doing you a favour We've also had the threat of the chain breaking down on numerous occasions. It's so fraught with peril. One person three, four, ten houses down the chain decides 'I've had a change of heart' and everyone ends up paying hundreds for absolutely nothing. I'd never consider a house that's in a chain again. Still, get the keys in two weeks

Good luck pinin! Hopefully smooth process on the day.
We moved ourselves. Hired a Luton van on Thursday later noon and returned early this morning so all packed up to go Thursday evening.

Got the house keys, all good atm. Lots to do but much better than our original pad.

No internet for at least a week though so going be quite here from me.

Crazy as it started with a speculative post here to me moving into a detached house and finally got a double garage!

Cheers for advice and support guys.

Enjoy your new home Reuben.

Good luck Reubs and it sounds like you've bought a nice place and I hope you're very happy in it