An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists

Dear Mr Farage,

Congratulations on your success in 'giving us our country back' - some of us foolishly thought we already had it, but never mind; we were obviously mistaken.

It's been some months now since your victory.

Would it be perhaps impolite to ask when I might expect to see the benefits which were promised by your campaign? As far as I can see, the main effect of the exit vote was to demolish the value of my savings and my pension plan. I don't like to complain, but perhaps you would be so kind as to reimburse me for the hundred thousand quid or so by which my pension fund - on any international exchange - has been devalued.

I'm sure the similar increase in the cost of foreign holidays has been a mere courtesy detail, since of course no True Englishman[tm] would ever consider travelling further than Brighton.

I am told that the British economy is doing better than ever. This is hardly a surprise, given the laughably low exchange rates, but remarkably my salary has not increased in similar measure - so once again, my expenses are no longer matched by my income. Food has increased in price; vehicle fuel has increased in price; domestic power has increased in price - indeed, anything which is either imported or which relies on transport within the UK (let's see, that would be everything) has increased in price.

And perhaps you'd care to comment on the uncertainty regarding right of abode in this country (and similar reciprocal rights within the EU)? As someone with an EU-born partner, you will of course have considered these issues - but perhaps you could enlighten the rest of us? I'm sure you didn't intend that this situation would end up as a bargaining chip in negotiations, leaving an estimated three million people in limbo.

Regards,

Barnacle

Of course , we now know that far from being the happily married family man, Farage is actually separated from his German wife. Not too much of a stretch to believe that his entire involvement in getting the UK out of the EU was just a roundabout way of getting rid of his wife ....

I think it was David Cameron, who gave us all the vote, rather than Farage. He obviously had the right idea as the majority agreed with him. At least he had the courage to stand up and say what he believed in. Agree with him or not, plenty of politicians just bend to the prevailing wind.

Saw a great "quote" on Newsthump by Farage in response to the criticism that he'd installed a 20 something French Intern in his London flat..."I don't see what all the fuss is about, after all the British people gave me a very clear mandate to stick one to the Germans and fccuk the French."

Barnacle - if an approx 15% drop in stirling cost you 100k then you should retire with your stonking pension pot and enjoy it while you can because most of the drop was due to stirling being too high in the first place. When the banks in europe (Italy and Germany) "really" face upto the debts they still have then the dollars growth will hurt you further. Do it now.

I expect my pension pot to have to last me for between forty and fifty years after I retire, DHR, given current life expectancies, my family history, and my doctor's advice.

Having saved hard for forty years into that pension pot, I don't take it kindly when some arse impolitely devalues it. The argument 'Sterling was too high in the first place' is both immaterial and subjective, and does not answer the issue.

I believe any investment when starting out comes with a warning that the rate of interest can fall as well as rise and the policy holder must be aware of this.

With a pension you need to take a long term view and have diversified investments, in 5-10 years Sterling may go the other way and then you will turn out a winner (for example if we manage Brexit well and EU implodes).

And we are still in the EU now, so obviously there is no protection from the EU when it comes to the value of sterling!
So who's to say it couldn't of happened even if we stayed in the EU as we still are Now!

Petrol/diesel was £1.50 odd a few years the £ to Euro value has been low not that long ago and the interest rate has been low for years!

I think we're confusing cause and effect here. The effect is that the £ is devalued and there are many ways that could happen. The (main) cause in this instance is the Brexit vote. The effect was entirely predictable based upon the cause. Farage has taken credit for the cause so he should also take "credit" for the effect (whether you think it is good or bad).

What I've already seen is that it is harder now for us (as a U.K. business) to attract talent from abroad because our salaries appear uncompetitive and, like it or not, talent from abroad always has financial obligations in their home country.

From a professional point of view, I'm still struggling to see how we think control over our own regulations is going to help us. The truth in consumer products is that we'll have to meet EU regs that are written specifically to disadvantage U.K. manufacturers because we will no longer be at the table to defend our interests - in exactly the same way that US and Chinese regs favour domestic producers. Writing our "own" regulations would be a nonsense.

Still, more than half the country is obviously smarter than me so Brexit means Brexit. And jobs abroad pay much better now And UK property is much cheaper for the Chinese as are U.K. companies. This MUST be a Good Thing - No?

The only thing I have seen in my job is companies hiding behind brexit almost using it as an excuse....we get emails constantly from suppliers explaining they've had to put prices up ....because brexit

That's about the only explanation we get.

I voted to remove the UK - it was my opinion(and i'm happy to say it still is),but I respect others that differ on opinion from my own thought process. Except idiot former Prime Ministers.

..... With, or without, the issue of finally leaving the club I don't think it is particularly 100% correct to say that the doom merchants are right in saying everything that is going to bite the UK is all the fault of the majority choosing its destiny and returning to independance.

The debt and fragility that we are in now is the same place that we have been in for many years. Hidden extremely well by the corridors of power and corruption. And it is only the fact that the number crunchers can scapegoat the potential doom onto the majority of voters who have chosen to leave that the true state of the Nation is becoming public.

Historically & hypothetically , if the majority of voters ended up choosing to stay in the club then the cloak of deception would undoubtably continue for another 2-3 years before it really could not be hidden any further.
And what we would be faced with then is a violent exit, not a democratic one.
The other Countries that are undoubtably going to leave soon may not have the freedom to choose a democratic route.

Time to cut the losses and lick our wounds.
Austerity is coming regardless.
You could choose to face that and make things good again as best we can with everything already sold off including our forefathers assets, or you could choose to continue to live the false life and let your children/grandchildren pay for it instead. What a legacy to leave !!!!

There's also been an exponential rise in 'moaning' and 'whinging', up around 3000% at the last check I believe, so at least somethings on the up.

Something that always depressed me about my home nation is the British glass half empty view of almost everything. No matter how better off we may have become as a nation we seem to fail to see it and just revel in our rose tinted glasses view of the past and bemoaning everything.

Yes, there are some significant issues in the UK and a lot of people feel left behind. But I am unaware how what we have done will fix any of those very real issues for those very real people. The whole break away argument seemed to rely on suggesting that anyone who felt disadvantaged would reap huge rewards by voting leave. Sadly if something looks too good to be true if so often is.

But as we Brits only ever appear to be truly happy when we're moaning, Brexit should bring years of happiness and contentment to us all, if only we can ignore the bitter realisation that we did it to ourselves.

I doubt if happiness and contentment will ensue any time soon - their is an awful lot of damage repair to do before we get to that stage.

I've always resented what we did to ourselves in the 1974 referendum.

And you can see from comments made, by Junckers and the like, that deep down the intense hatred towards the UK comes to the surface in droves.
And we wanted to be in this false happy-clappy wealth depleting club ?

I'm guessing that you voted leave

I like it. It's all about the money.

Whilst the idea of autonomy/supposed sovereignty for the UK was a great vote winning concept for Leave, it would appear that significant 'common people' fell for the verbiage and unaccountable promises and rhetoric the likes of Farage, Johnson and Gove peddled.

Whilst I understand the real outcomes and changes will take time to take shape given we have yet to even leave, I fear a lot of the hysterical flag waving polices and outcomes will never be realised. As for Cameron giving the citizen's the choice to stay or leave, my take is that it was undertaken because like his premiership it was a spineless decision so that the Tory Party could sort out it's own infighting and the fact that he and the Establishment believed the Leave would never win.

If what the Tories are currently undertaking with the decimation and destruction of school funding/education, the NHS, Employment Laws, the Prison System, Elderly Care, Legal Aid etc the move from the EU and the ECJ will in my view exacerbate this decimation of what we valued in our country.

That's a very disturbing thing to suggest that those that who voted 'leave' have no ability to make a sound judgement call and just believe the 'spin' of the day.
The inference would be that those voting to 'stay' are the only ones who have the ability to make a sound decision and all others should be discounted and ignored.

In effect.... you are making your own 'spin' to rebel against democracy.





The things that used to be valued in this Country are, I'm afraid, totally destroyed due to 40 years of our wealth going abroad and never to return. Its been held together with sticky tape for decades.
And that is the reason why you will finally have cutbacks in this Country to our 20th century valued support system(s).

And its extremely wrong to single out the Tories for the EU mistake that we've lived with.
You are 'pigeon-holing' to the extreme.
If you want people to really despise then just look across the House of Commons floor to the other party's.
Conversely, there are good honest people on both sides also.



" Sorry kids - we're going to have to cut back on school uniforms and we'll also have to eat porridge from now on because I've just had the family silver stolen from me right in front of my eyes. I watched them do it but couldn't fight it. "

"" I hate you Dad !. Why should I have to be subjected to my future years suffering with great hardship and despair ? !! ""

" Because.. like I said... WE'VE BEEN ROBBED AND WE HAVE NO WEALTH LEFT........... AND YOU ARE GOING TO PAY FOR IT INSTEAD OF THE THIEVES THAT CAUSED ALL OF THIS.
The monies gone.. and its not coming back ! "

Well, if you want to go back 40 years, why stop there? If you want to hark back to the "good old days", why not go back a little further (and really not much further), you'll find that a vast proportion of "our" wealth actually came from us stealing it wholesale from other nations, subjugating and oppressing their peoples in the process. WE are "the thieves that caused all this".

Still, at least then we knew how to keep Johnny Foreigner in his place.

I dont say 'the old days' were necessarily 'good'.
And the days to come - they will have elements of good & bad in different forms from what we are currently used to I'm sure.

Yes, even taking into account that history is only written by the Victors, your comment is undoubtedly valid on its historical note.

Whether oppressing the Cornish whilst stealing tin, the workers in the Lancashire Mills, or oppressing those in Mauritius growing sugar cane.
The centre of London does not have clean hands.

I'm only stopping at 40 years because thats the relevant time for this topic (unless 23rd June 2016 is the only relevant time for this topic !)

Isn't it odd how Brexit has polarised people so viciously, people who on other topics are capable of rational argument and understanding of other people's views ?

Barnacle knows perfectly well it wasn't Farage who crashed the pound and his pension. Farage doesn't have enough money to move the markets, neither do the people that followed him or even every single person that voted acting in unison . The only people that can more the currency markets are banks and governments.

I read somewhere it takes £billions to move the dollar/stirling market by even 1cent.

What happened was these big institutions took instant fright that the coverup of Italy's debt, Germany's debt and the trillions of Euros that Draghi and BOE has spent buying up duff bonds in a vast QE effort would come home to roost as the EU fell apart.

The scaremongering BOE, Carney and the chancellor (who was so useless I've forgotten his name already) did, all that because they know that Brexit would be the start of the unraveling of the euro and EU and that the debt crisis that still hasn't been solved. (witness Greece)

We haven't left the EU yet, it will be at least 2 years. We don't know if things will get better or worse. My opinion is that Europe is going to implode when the EU finds it can't sort these debts out inside the Euro. If you are going to predict success or failure by the (as yet unrealized) value of your pension pot then in two years time I suspect things might improve versus our friends in Europe.

My vote is to stop whinging about whats done and lets make the most of it. Get back to being that rational balanced people we are.

Love the idea that London was the centre of this. Just take a look at the centre of Glasgow or Newcastle (as examples) - HUGE wealth off the back of the empire and slave trade.

Fair point MRS, but then who is "not" guilty?

All European countries, even diminutive Belgium, got in on the act of plundering the world's resources.

And them Romans....well


Oh and the Greeks and Phoenicians

Liverpool was a major slave trade Hub in the UK, some of the carvings on the Liver building attest to this.

My point was really that it is a fool's errand to blame "faceless bureaucrats in Brussels"(TM) for the financial woes of this country. Or one bunch of politicians. Though you can be pretty sure that bankers had a hand in it... As most of us now recognise, there never was £350M a week to put into our NHS and there will be many many people who will suffer as EU funding is withdrawn. Some day we may even be able to see accurately just what our net contribution to the EU was and whether it was worth it.

I would rather have remained within the EU, because - although far from perfect - communication, unity and co-operation generally lead to greater overall prosperity (financial, cultural, security) than isolationaism or division.

But, we will now have to lie in this bed we have made and maybe one day I'll be able to look MY kids in the eye and say that it was a good idea.

Indeed Jim, perhaps JonH you could specifically state what your actual issue/s are with the EU that has led to the conclusions you have come to, post 1974? Some of your accusations and your interpretations you have made about what I wrote are incorrect and appear to be bent to the mantra you wish to propagate.

Not ignored the site - Ive been away.

The only point I wish to make about 'what you wrote' is that its pretty damning against the significant 'common people', who you imply are effectively thick, and without any capability for rationale thought. And therefore will make/have made the wrong choice.

In effect I could perhaps say that your writings have bent your thoughts and (non factual) statements towards the mantra to which you desire. You've 'dissed' the outies, and branded them all, without a moments thought.


Above all though it is absolutely important that you be allowed to have your own thoughts, and I be allowed to have my own thoughts, in this journey of life.

Even if I would disagree with you, it doesn't mean you should be suppressed.
Differences of opinion and dialogue and rationality normally make for a better end result if both parties are willing to be adult.

Time will tell if the European Club members (UK included at the moment) are willing to be adult.

Peace.

I'm pretty certain that many of the people who voted - on both sides - did their best to inform themselves on the issues, considered their evidence, and decided on that basis. That they decided other than I did, or other than you did, is in that case simply that they have different priorities and therefore arrive at a different result.

Which is all well and good.

However, I strongly suspect - from both previous observation of election results, and from interviews and surveys taken since the event - that the majority of people on *both* sides voted largely on tribal grounds: we vote that way because the paper we read and the TV we watch and the websites we visit tell us that that's the way to vote. People voted on a single issue without considering the ancillary effects (some of which I listed in my initial post, though that list is by no means complete). Even today, we have the delight of watching pro-exit newspapers excoriating the members of the House of Lords for exercising the very rights *for which those same papers* claimed should be 'returned' somehow from Europe.

And the biggest joke of all? If this country wants to trade with the EU, it will have to have many of the same laws as already exist, simply to meet the industrial standards required to allow goods and services into the EU.

I think this rush to leave the EU has been significantly manipulated by a small number of people with axes to grind (and a lot of money to come to them); I think it is the most foolish thing this country has done in years; and I further believe that it will take *years* before the country recovers from the damage caused by it, and the likes of you and I see significant benefit as a result of it. It may never happen.

What?? Details, please!!

It seems that the best indicator of life expectancy is the life of your progenitors: I have two living parents approaching ninety; three grandparents made it past a hundred and the other died at eighty-five of silicosis (he was a deep miner); there is no family history of the usual cancers/heart disease/stroke that often finish people off early; and the average life expectancy is rising about one year for every two or three years that pass.

And I get my pension at sixty...

'Common people' was not a derogatory comment, in fact the reverse is true; it was to encompass anyone who was not part of the Establishment, the plebeians/us

What I would say is that since the referendum the populist rhetoric espoused by the 'leave lobby' has gone desperately flat. It has not and probably will never materialise in policy or practice. Many of the leave slogans and soundbites used to sway people to vote leave was pure gerrymandering.

I would go so far as to say leaving the EU is a step backwards towards a more nationalist, imperialist and a continued erosion of UK citizens rights (employment, legal etc). The leave vote for most people I have spoken to appears to revolve around the key factor of immigration, unfortunately for them, leaving the EU will have no real impact on immigration levels given the UK needs this influx for the capitalist economy to function now and in the future.

"a continued erosion of UK citizens rights"

I'm curious to know which of your rights are being continuously eroded?

My right to access the law and seek redress against the State....an inability to gain legal aid for many cases and the prohibitive rising costs of litigation e.g employment matters, family matters, Tribunals etc.

The destruction of collective bargaining and Trade Unionism, the erosion of workers and consumers rights...note the Tory Govt refuses to confirm this will be enshrined in any future Acts post Brexit and their total inaction with regards to issues such as zero hour contracts. The loss of in work benefits. The rise once again of Mercantilism.

Routine rather than targeted surveillance by the SIS's, the continued curbing of freedom of expression and protest, closed courts etc.

The UK's desire post Brexit not to commit to future pollution targets....odd since NO2 levels in London were above their yearly target in just 4 days and the continued impact this will have on the populations' health.

The huge amount of Secondary Legislation passed into Law each year never having been debated by our elected representatives nor forming any part of a Government's manifesto....an 'elected dictatorship.'

The future inability to seek redress with the ECJ against UK Government rulings and legislation which infringes rights or freedoms.

The repeal of The Human Rights Act, loss of the ECHR and a replacement Bill of Rights which will be driven by wants of the elite/Establishment not the needs of the people.

One benefit though was the political demise of Cameron and Osbourne, that said it appears despite May's rhetoric it's business as usual with the Tories.

Oh, those ones.

Presumably, as we haven't left the EU yet, it must've happened under their watch, so they're not exactly protecting your rights now are they.

I believe they have but one can only imagine how it will get much worse with no HRA, or ECJ to turn to, please don't fret though I am sure the Tories will put the correct spin on it to sell it as a positive thing for the UK to have all of the above and more and great for John Bull's Britain!

So you're complaining about things that haven't happened and may possibly not happen.

I hate it when it rains next Wednesday too.

It's interesting how the optimists voted "leave" and the pessimists voted "remain".

If "remoaners" put half as much effort into moving on then the atmosphere wouldn't be half as down as it is now.

cracking comment !

Did you notice Tony B-liar in London today at the unveiling.......surprised he dared to show his face. Eh lad, bring back the labour , with red leftie still living in the 70s leading the party , maybe Scargill could take up politics and be his no2 !! One out, everybody out .

For that type of optimism read fascism

And there, in a nutshell, is why the remain campaign lost.

Really? I think it was mainly down to complacency among the establishment and lies by the Leave campaign that captured the imagination and votes of people desperately seeking something to believe in.
Farage and Trump both understand the value of propaganda and the relative lack of value of truth.

There are many people who have well-thought out and valid reasons for voting Leave, but if anyone thinks that they are what led to a majority, then that, in a nutshell, is why the vote for Brexit appears deeply depressing to "remoaners".

Yes, really. But it's a moot point.

Moaning is a brit (English?) pastime and they'll be a hell of a lot more of it before the dust settles.

Well, as 'they' see it, it's a wonderful opportunity for the UK. As *I* see it, they've just kicked my feet out from under me after forty years of saving and planning.

Moaning? Nope - just trying the best I can to get back on track even though it's unlikely to happen. It's hard to steer a safe course when the clouds cover the moon and the waves are actively trying to drown you.

I reiterate my original point: no matter how 'good' or otherwise the economy is doing, my net worth anywhere except in the UK has reduced by fifteen or twenty percent.

(btw: economy doing well = 3% increase in GDP, measured in UKP which have devalued 15-20% against the two main currencies with which it trades. How's that again?)

As a Brit who lives in France, it seems to me that the referendum has split the UK and generated a lot of hate. I don't understand this "left behind" nonsense. Everyone has an MP, everyone has an MEP so everyone has an opportunity to lobby their representatives. If they are unable or unwilling to do so then they only have themselves to blame. Being in the EU gave the UK over 40 years of peace and prosperity, the ability to move and work freely in the EU. I have a wry smile when I see English bars etc in tourist areas of Spain, Greece etc, or when I hear Brits living in France looking for English speaking hairdressers, dentist etc.The world is a big place that are worth experiencing rather than restricting yourself to English culture. I frequently get asked about whether things are better in the UK or France and I reply that they are different. Some things are better, some are worse but you adapt to your situation. What was wrong was that UK tax paying citizens living in the EU for more than 15 yaers were not allowed to vote. No taxation without representation. Perhaps the UK should consider not taxing UK citizens who do not have a vote.

I'm in a similar position to you Guzbod, except across one more border from the UK and I agree with almost everything you allude to. Only, if we live abroad, we don't pay taxes in the UK but in our chosen home, right? We are usually allowed to vote in the UK but were singled out from voting in the last referendum, the result of which actually affects us whereas general election results affect us much less.

AH, but you have to realise that for the True Englishman[tm] the world stops once your feet are wet.

The world is full of Johnny Foreigner, and we don't want his type over here in England's green and pleasant lands. As for those Englishmen like you and me, we're obviously not True Englishmen, since otherwise we'd be perfectly happy in God's Own Country and not tainted by this perverse desire to see the world (or even (whisper the words) live or work in it).

Let's hear if for the Daily Mail (and its ilk) and the scumbags who write it and read it - because, well, the news was always good. We were never at war with Oceana.

We are happy to sell to anyone (and may even buy from them) but we don't want to live next door to them or meet them in the pub ...

We actually need an influx of younger people in nations with stagnant populations and desires for economic growth. Most are an essential contributing part of the economy but are being labelled as the cause of all ills that have befallen a basically poorly governed country.

Fewer will want to come now anyway. Remove the rest and wait for everything to magically turn to gold

The EU gave everyone on this Island freedom to move anywhere in Europe to seek new opportunities or just take a chance of a different life. This is the opportunity many eastern Europeans and indeed many Brits took, indeed several people on this forum are in this group.

Brexit is phase one of getting the average bod back in their box, and we voted for it.

The booming UK property market made it possible for many Brits to realise their property asset and seek a new life in a cheaper part of Europe. Never before had working bods had such a freedom, the chance to take a different direction even retire to the sun. We were protected by freedom of movement rules and basic healthcare. After Brexit most Brits won't be able to follow this path any more.

Wealthy folks will be able meet the criteria for citizenship that will apply to non-EU citizens. These often require a 500K Euro property investment and a similar level in savings. Aye, we bods all have the opportunity to realise a Million Euro's don't we!

The only funny thing is that many of the bods who voted out are yet to fully realise that Brexit has killed their dream of a retirement in the sun. Quite sad that I'll derive a degree of schadenfreude as reality kicks and they realise they'll probably be stuck in their semi for the rest of their lives, or at least until they have to sell it to pay for healthcare costs!

An idea - everyone who voted remain and doesn't like what democracy has given them should move to Scotland and vote for independence. Then if independence happens, and Europe will have them, they can live in Europhile bliss. You may be a bit colder but perhaps your hearts will be warmer.

It's funny that the people who voted out did it mainly because of the 'lies' spread by the Leave campaign and the desire to prevent immigration.

I voted 'leave,' yet my personal view is that the number of immigrants has been of huge benefit to our country for the past few decades. As for the lies from the Leave side, it's laughable that a supporter of either cause could raise this as an argument. The whole campaign (from both sides) was littered with inaccuracies, lies and unsubstantiated 'evidence.'

I was 50/50 until pretty much the day before the referendum as to which way I was going to vote and then I heard someone trotting out a line about the 'markets.' It was a pathetic suggestion - we should base our country's future upon the worry that the market traders would quickly sell shares, stocks, bonds etc in a mad panic, leading to a market crash? The fact that our country has become completely reliant on an industry which produces nothing and contributes nothing to society, when the governing party systematically destroyed the manufacturing industry over many years is gut-wrenching.

The majority of people (in my opinion) who voted to leave, were not basing their judgement on the absolute crap spouted by politicians, nor purely on immigration - sorry to all those who think the Daily Mail actually influence the population - but because of a political ideal that perhaps we can stand on our own two feet. It may be misplaced, it may backfire spectacularly, but so far it's not been the war-inducing catalyst which the Remain campaign suggested (sorry, I forgot that the lies and myths only came from those on the leave side). In fact, Call Me Dave has gone, Gideon Osborne has been taken away from the money chest, Michael Gove is ruined and Boris is on the way to well-deserved international ridicule, so overall not too bad really.

I think one of the problems with the referendum is that, despite what was a relatively small majority, the result is absolute. Compare that to the Scottish referendum where the losing side won a lot of concessions from the UK governement on the basis of a small majority. It also left the door open (as has been shown this week) for another vote on the basis of new facts.

I'm not saying that there should be another Brexit vote but it irks me when people say "we voted" for Brexit. I didn't. The popular vote won - that doesn't make it a good idea.

From memory, most areas of Scotland voted to stay in the UK. Dear old Nicola's supporters mainly lived in the two major cities of Glasgow and Edinburgh, so how she reckons ' scotland ' is behind her baffles me. Best thing for Nicola..... .......do us all a favour, so no more of that whinging mare every day in the news !

......and if scotland left the uk, team GB would gain hardly any medals at the next olympics !

Any evidence for that? Everything I have seen suggests otherwise.

So according to some news/media reports Nicola Sturgeon has abandoned plans to rejoin Europe after the referendum2 because surveys show the majority of Scots are Eurosceptic and don't want to join !!!! But isn't that how she justified the "ref2" ?

Does she have some sort of vested interest in all this ?

2012 London Edit
Medal Name[2][3] Sport Event
Gold Andy Murray Tennis Men's singles
Gold Chris Hoy Track cycling Men's team sprint
Gold Chris Hoy Track cycling Men's keirin
Gold Heather Stanning Rowing Women's coxless pair
Gold Katherine Grainger Rowing Women's double sculls
Gold Scott Brash Equestrian Team jumping
Gold Timothy Baillie Canoe slalom Men's C-2 team
Silver Andy Murray Tennis Mixed doubles
Silver David Florence Canoe slalom Men's C-2 team
Silver Luke Patience Sailing Men's 470
Silver Michael Jamieson Swimming Men's 200 metres breaststroke
Bronze Daniel Purvis Artistic gymnastics Men's team all-round
Bronze Laura Bartlett Field hockey Women's tournament
Bronze Emily Maguire Field hockey Women's tournament
2016 Rio Edit
Medal Name Sport Event
Gold Andy Murray Tennis Men's singles
Gold Callum Skinner Track cycling Men's team sprint
Gold Heather Stanning Rowing Women's coxless pair
Gold Katie Archibald Track cycling Women's team pursuit
Silver Daniel Wallace Swimming Men's 4×200 metre freestyle relay
Silver Duncan Scott Swimming Men's 4×200 metre freestyle relay
Silver Robert Renwick[note 1] Swimming Men's 4×200 metres freestyle relay
Silver Stephen Milne Swimming Men's 4×200 metre freestyle relay
Silver Duncan Scott Swimming Men's 4×100 metre medley relay
Silver Katherine Grainger Rowing Women's double sculls
Silver David Florence Canoe slalom Men's C–2 team
Silver Mark Bennett Rugby sevens Men's tournament
Silver Mark Robertson Rugby sevens Men's tournament
Silver Callum Skinner Track cycling Men's individual sprint
Silver Karen Bennett Rowing Women's eights
Silver Polly Swann Rowing Women's eights
Bronze Sally Conway Judo Women's –70 kilograms
Bronze Eilidh Doyle Athletics Women's 4 × 400 metres relay

So in 2012, Scotland won 7 G, 4 S, 3 B
And in 2016, Scotland won 4 G, 12 S, 2 B

Out of a total for GB in 2012 of 29 G, 17 S, 19 B
And in 2016 the GB total was 27 G, 23 S, 17 B

So percent of GB medals won by Scotland
in 2012 24% G, 24% S, 16% B
in 2016 15% G, 52% S, 12% B

GB without Scotland would have won the following
in 2012 22 G, 13 S, 16 B
in 2016 23 G, 11 S, 15 B

...which is not "hardly any medals"

Not even that Dave.

I think the Team GB totals you have used doesnt include team medals for each competitor e.g. there is only 1 silver for the rugby 7s but the list above has the 2 silvers for rugby sevens for Scotland meaning there are another 10 silvers that aren't for Scotland.

Rio totals actually loo like this
Gold 68
Silver 56
Bronze 31

So it would be
Gold 64
Silver 44
Bronze 29
for Team GB without Scotland at Rio.

The medals totals for each home nation (and other team GB competitors) is split along the same proportions of numbers of athletes competing give or take a few %.

I thought about not replying to this thread

class Pete.

Don't panic its a general election!
This could all end well with a liberal majority:D

Yes, but did they partake of jumping off hillsides attached to small bit of cloth?

Small? 31.1 square meters, 340m of lines...