Coronavirus

Only a matter of time before someone started a thread

I don't have much to say about it yet, except observing just how many people never washed or sanitised their hands previously

Why would we start selling out of sanitisers and soaps, etc., if everyone washed their hands properly in the first place!

Maybe if everyone washed their hands properly in the first place, then things like Norovirus and C-Diff, etc wouldn't spread around either.

Wuhan-400 from the infectious diseases facility on the outskirts of Wuhan. Attacks human adults pretty much exclusively and incapacitates them. I wonder how many of the Chinese military have it or do they have an antidote. It’s complete tosh but a great conspiracy theory

I'm kind worried if I'm not worried enough, could this be a case of the boy who cried wolf with our media?
Every month there is something new and exciting that we are all going to be horrifically killed by and we should be worried about.

So I'm kind of past worrying, when I should be perhaps worried?

The good news is I don't commute, mix with large groups or work in an office, so win win

My youngest Ben is of the same feeling, that media (?controlled) is whipping up one form of crowd hysteria after another.

I've cancelled our Dubai trip though

Announced on R4 a couple of days ago: a list of people most likely to be affected seriously...

Elderly [x]
Diabetic [x]
Asthmatic [x]
Impaired immune system [x]

Yup, ticks for the first four. And they didn't list any more...

Neil

I'm scoring 1 out of 4, what do you win Neil you hit jackpot...
Points and prices right?

I'm more curious to know as to why people are stock piling toilet roll?

Because they’re a-holes???

I saw a single roll of toilet roll for sale for £10 on FB Marketplace. The cheek

Yes it's odd, one of our local Sainsburys (large store) was right out of it up here....unless they were over-worried about the invading French rugby team

See what you did there

The Wuhan - 400 has my vote. Along with this being in the population a LOT longer then January..

Re panic over supplies - UK government has been saying for decades the need for everyone to have 2 weeks rations at times of emergency: Just for info of all I have copied it here:

"Stock enough food for fourteen days.
Choose foods which can be eaten cold, which keep fresh, and which are tinned or well wrapped. Keep your stocks in a closed cabinet or cupboard.
Provide variety. Stock sugar, jams or other sweet foods, cereals, biscuits, meats, vegetables, fruit and fruit juices. Children will need tinned or powdered milk, and babies their normal food as far as is possible. Eat perishable items first. Use your supplies sparingly.

Stock enough water for fourteen days
You will need enough for the family for fourteen days. Each person should drink two pints a day - so for this you will need three and a half gallons each.
You should try to stock twice as much water as you are likely to need for drinking, so that you will have enough for washing. So provide your drinking water beforehand by filling bottles for use in the fall-out room. Store extra water in the bath, in basins and in other containers.
Seal or cover all you can"

The Media aren't helping. But do they ever. The UK Government similarly isn't likely to be knocking on your door with free food. No shock there.

Chin up all - bit or practicality, and no panic and we will all get through this!

Regards

MM

Do you have the link for this - had a look on Google and cannot see anything specific.

Thanks for sharing btw.

http://www.roc-heritage.co.uk/uploads/7/6/8/9/7689271/protectandsurvive.pdf

Published to deal with Nuclear bombs, rather than evolutionary/natural bombs................

I had forgotten the storyline in that Dean Koontz novel “Eyes of Darkness” it’s a hell of a coincidence. If it’s is an engineered virus that escaped that would make for a hell of a story particularly if you could pin it on the Chinese military.

There is so much coverage but there is one thing missing for me... Nobody who has had the virus and recovered has yet been interviewed. I'd like to hear first hand just how mild of bad the experience was and how long it took to recover. This has not been mentioned anywhere as far as i can tell.

As a side note. If anyone here remembers the 1975 BBC TV Drama series "Survivors" the opening sequence is eerily prophetic
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I don't as I lived in France then, but a member of a Shell Tanker UK Facebook group to which I belong said the same thing last night.

No that's it. I could find NOTHING more from the gov website when I checked.

But my old teacher- worked as a logistics manager for what was then the GLC - and told me that he wrote the guidance for the pamphlet and urged everyone to have at least 14 days worth of basics ready to role. We are NOT talking about panic buying here- we are talking about slowly amassing some basic sensible items to have in case there was an emergency. You know like motorists from a few years back would always travel with some basic tools, jump leads. maybe a torch etc.

Like putting your shovel, some old clothes and a coat in the boot - if taking the car out in snowy weather.

I know most here will be pretty practically minded and will have this base covered- but just in case its a bit of food for thought. If you look at Italy and France-and they tend to have smaller villages and sparser communities then us- and how they are restricting travel and locking down movement-it's niave to think this couldn't happen here.

p.s. - I remember the survivors tv show!! - and guess it must have stuck in my mind. Anyone else remember "Doom Watch" as well?? Mega TV!


Stay safe all....interesting times ahead!

MM

Perfect time to watch Contagion ( https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1598778/ ) , they even have it starting from animals in China.

well spotted Graham !!

Well what's the general consensus ,is Corono worse or not as bad as we are being told. ? ............... I certainly can't remember major countries going into lockdown
(for something they keep saying isn't too dangerous) in my lifetime !!

Like this one?

Italy seems to be pretty bad with it, not helped by the food delivery guy who tested positive for Coronavirus but ignored orders to self quarantine for 2 weeks.

I went to buy some condoms from the supermarket today, but they were out of stock.

People are taking this fcking seriously.

I watched the joe rogan podcast last night, well, bits of it.
Its very alarming to see the advice of professionals being ignored. People are not looking at the likest of italy thinking that could be us next?

Our own government's policy of not even attempting to practice any mitigation by at least checking people as they fly back from italy is very scary. Im not sure yet if its a case of people over reacting, or we simply do not have the resources to deal with even that.

I suspect we will have a never event over the next 2-3 months and we will all get a lesson in what dramatic underfunding of the NHS and operating a healthcare service at above 100% does.
Its also going to start to bite with supply chains over the next few months with the notion that they probably have very little built in resilience to disruption of more than a couple of days

lets hope were all wrong hey! because i have no idea where were going to put the people who are sick, and sick people dont stop getting sick because there is a new kid on the block,

Surely getting gloves would be easier JKD? A condom for each finger to prevent transfer of CV sounds a bit impractical to me...

This whole business could become quite a headache but I hear there's no cure for that now either

It's starting to get annoying here now. Bars,restaurants cinema etc to be closed at midnight. Yet local election voting to carry on tomorrow!
I need to work but I'm lucky enough that it's outside and should finish the contract by Tuesday,then that's it for us,we will be both at home but not at home to anyone.

My colleagues have all been sent home now from our Cambridge offices. One person has been off showing symptoms for a week, but not yet diagnosed; another's partner is waiting for diagnosis.

So home we are for the next fortnight at least. Suits me, I tick too many boxes...

I can't even buy my usual toilet rolls from Lidl as everyone else had panic bought them I also had spaghetti on my shopping list, which is usually abut 20p a pack and that's all gone too!
It's annoying that I can't do my usual shopping because everyone is out panic buying everything.

Anything that is available is the higher priced stuff, which I can't afford I'm not paying £3 or more for 4 toilet rolls that are coated in Aloe Vera, when I can usually buy 18 for around £4.50

Cancelled all this week's pupils, and an exam accompaniment (which I suspect the Ass Board will cancel anyway).
Uni has stopped all face-to-face tuition, probably impinging on practical examinations next month.

We now only meet our friends in the park

Even had to turn my grandkids away yesterday when their dad suggested popping over to show me his new car...they had colds and I'm also at risk.

My daughter came across from Holland this morning and at least I saw her for 10 minutes (at arms' length) before seeing her onto a train....

I hear Chuck Norris tested positive for Coronavirus.

The virus is now in quarantine for a fortnight...

I was chatting to my old school-friend in Estepona today. He is in total lockdown from today, Another friend has had to leave Spain today to get over the border to Portugal to fly home tomorrow or be stuck out there indefinitely

Everyone can only go out to buy food, for medical reasons or to go to work and they have the cops out enforcing it.

All the local police, who are the ones most folk see have been drafted into the National police to enforce it.

As an aside, I went into my local Morrisons at 10 am today to get our breakfast fresh croissants. The car park was full, though I do have a blue sticker so could park easily.

There were no trolleys at all, nor baskets and the place was absolutely heaving. No toilet rolls, bottled water, baby food, nappies or paracetamol. I have never seen the place so full, not even at Christmas.

I went to get some toilet rolls today but they were completely gone. Strangely enough, so was the paracetamol. I don't get it. How exactly do you wipe your ass with paracetamol?

Went to our local Sainsbury and Tesco's yesterday to do our shop, got most of the things we needed, paid a premium for eggs, but what did make me laugh was that the whole frozen section of Yorkshire puddings were all gone!

Well, we've installed our blackout curtains and I'm digging a shelter in the garden.

My cupboards are full of tinned Spam and condensed milk.

Joking aside, I'm not sure why on earth people are buying bottled water.

Weirdly, in Stroud, Sainsburys shelves of cat biscuits had been stripped bare.
Given that nobody will admit to it, who are the people panic buying?!

Macron will address the nation again at 8pm tonight. I imagine that France will follow Spain into total lockdown.
From what I saw in news there were many folks in the cities congregating in areas for picnics etc. Not excactly a social conscience, but I'm not surprised.
It seems to me that they wanted to get the local elections out of the way yesterday,but it goes into a second weekend of voting normally,so I'm not sure if that will go ahead.

From what I have witnessed most people are stocking up on non perishable foodstuffs say buying an extra packet or tin or two and why shouldn't they; given the uncertainty who wouldn't; the cumulative affect is the supply chain cannot cope hence the empty shelves. There are obviously twats that are blindly bulk buying or trying to profit from the shortages

Sounds like we chose the right date to leave with our ferry on Saturday evening - had a meal on the way to the boat not realising it would be the last time the restaurants were open, I don't think they were aware at the time.

Well, I popped to Lidl again today and there was no toilet roll, flour, long life milk, bleach, any sort of wipes, like baby wipes, anti bacterial wipes, etc

A patient has died from the virus at the hospital I work at. My Mum is 68, with health problems and am dreading possibly passing anything on to her.

Good luck out there everyone!

Turns out 'corona virus' is an anagram for 'carnivorous'...

Of which - apparently this is what wiped out the dinosaurs: they couldn't wash their teeny tiny hands.

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If the supermarkets are out of stock due to panic buying, try corner shops/food stores/grocers/convenience stores etc?

I'm ok for stuff at the moment JKD, just observing how bare the shelves are and how unfair it is for people who just want to buy their usual stuff.

The same thing is happening here, "Downunder", with people panic buying.

Today was the first day that a major supermarket chain opened its doors early allowing only the older members of our community to shop, so as not to fight crowds. A big problem though, the shelves were fairly empty so not much for the "oldies" to purchase.

On a positive note, the Australian stock market had a very large rally today, its best in 23 years, with supermarket shares gaining heaps.

Second time I typed this as phone is being annoying.
First time today the local shops started to show lack of stock, the good news is the butcher and bakery are well stocked.
I had hoped that being very rural we would lag behind the sillyness but I do understand supply chains are not used to this volume.

I think what will be crazy is the food waste we are going forward. I buy little and often as I can never make my mind up what I want to eat. It's effecting me as i don't do a weekly shop... All I can do is support local shops which is what I'll continue to do while sensible rather than the big nationals. I pay more but I'm ok with that for the most part.

I feel like I'm being punished for not panic buying, it's very strange. The only worry I really do have is securing food for my cats.

Let's hope it gets better than worse

That's the only thing that I have bought more than usual, and even then we only have about 10 days worth.
Let's hope the little buggers don't go off the stuff we have.

The supermarkets and upward supply chain seem slow in taking up the employment slack from transport and hospitality and get more people moving stock and stacking shelves Xmas-style. There’s an excess of labour in some sectors and a shortage in another - QED.

At the moment we seem to be relatively OK here in my neck of the woods. Some small pockets of extra buying, but nothing extreme. Wife who is a lecturer has chosen to work from home, our son who is forty & special needs is at home with us as well, we decided not to put him to a daily centre. I'm still recovering from a hip operation & not looking to back to work any time soon. Mind you, trying to phone our surgery has drastically changed.

Our surgery has messaged me this morning that they are implementing phone consultations only, after which, the doctor will invite those they think need to be seen to the surgery,

They have also asked patients not to hand in requests for repeat prescriptions but to do it electronically. That can be a problem for some though.

Anybody know why someone like Google isn’t using something like Maps to have people mark if they’re a suspected CV19 case..?

The UK government announced it would update figures- but NOT reveal where the cases were-to stop potential panic/targeting.

So you can see numbers in areas like "Sussex" for instance. But not specifics. Bare in mind Gov suggests the real number of infections is over 50K in UK.... I donlt trust any Govt particuallry- but that sounds about right, And we are expecting rates like Italy in next two weeks- I suspect when the death tally rises it will sharpen peoples minds and the panic in the generally apathetic will start.

We just have to hold on to the positives - this is likely to be a good 3 month plus issue. But China are reporting numbers dropping. And USA and Japan are trialling human tests for new vaccines. We WILL come through this.

Another positive - with such little traffic on the roads-there are some cracking roads to try out!

Chin up all KBO!!

Regards

MM

I hope we will not get as bad as Spain, France and Italy as we are generally not so touchy feely.

Our cold British reserve will save us! Stiff upper lip. Pip pip.

Yup - I don’t need to know where people are ill but the government does and, in the absence of mass testing, people reporting that they have specific symptoms and isolating could help paint the picture. That could inform the all-important decisions on school closures, isolating at-risk people, etc. Seems mad to me that, in this connected world that I know how long it will take me to get the B&Q and how many people to expect there when I arrive, we can’t use the same technology to help paint a picture of this problem.

It seems to me that the uk government is trying to keep official numbers down,all though it's a changing scene at the moment and there is an awfull lot of unseen paddling going on.

I also think,(and it's not unique to the uk) that they uk won't go for a total lockdown as they just won't be able to police it. There's not the respect for others ,particularly in the inner city problem areas.
I imagine that parts of the U.K. are just a spark away from having riots if lockdown happens.

The lockdown seems to be working where I am in France all though there have been some fines handed out all ready.

Parisians that are lucky enough to have holiday homes are arriving into our area.
Today on the Ille de Ré said Parisians with holiday homes there were having BBQs on the beaches! All have been told to leave and now the police have closed the beaches.

To be fair the Continent of Europe has in it's history not been attuned to policing or governing by consent, Franco in Spain, Hitler in Germany, Mussolini in Italy, Vichy France et al. If the UK can achieve what is needed without draconian use of lockdowns and limits of personal freedom then all the better.

Draconian!
Let's hope the uk gets off lightly as from what I'm seeing from the uk public they are acting like its Christmas.

How about this. A good pal has the virus in Surrey. He has isolated himself for seven days. His wife works in a hospital and has carried on working and his son has carried on working. They all live together. He has in the last hour told me that it looks like he will looking after his grand children next week as the schools may shut!

What do you think of that?

Just been told that the schools in England are being shut from Friday Joe.

Except if a pupil has a parent who is a NHS worker or a police officer. Figure how that would work?

Yes Pete I've seen that news. They will have to have at least a couple of staff to care for those kids but in a way it makes sense as its not a good idea for a grandparent to take over the care.
Turns out children seem at less risk and talk is that it's due to thier recent measles jabs.

We have just lost,this morning ,a very good elderly friend in Holland due to the virus. His poor daughter is now struggling to drive to Holland from France to be with her elderly mother who was nursing him! It's not going to end well I'm afraid.

Pete! Stay safe and stay home mate.

"Draconian!
Let's hope the uk gets off lightly as from what I'm seeing from the uk public they are acting like its Christmas.

How about this. A good pal has the virus in Surrey. He has isolated himself for seven days. His wife works in a hospital and has carried on working and his son has carried on working. They all live together. He has in the last hour told me that it looks like he will looking after his grand children next week as the schools may shut!

What do you think of that?"

I am unsure what you mean, are you annoyed that the Schools are shutting now in the UK and that that your mate who is elderly is going to have to look after his own grandkids to help his own family? or you think the Schools should stay open with children passing the virus between each other and then to those in the home environment, orTeachers forced to work unable to self isolate to accommodate the nations child minding service?

Interesting how many occupations are now very much non essential with hordes of people self isolating at home on full pay pontificating from their ivory towers whilst many of the lowest paid and undervalued in our society are now essential expected to work on the front line police, NHS, teachers. cleaners, energy workers, and the poor sods in the gig economy not even classed as employees like delivery drivers, retail workers, hospital support staff, agency workers etc.

Every country I think in Europe has shut it's Schools including France the UK is now following that thinking. Who is looking after the kids in France Germany Italy etc? In the UK the Schools are remaining open for all vulnerable children and those of essential workers so your friend should be alleviated from his child minding duties from Monday. I am unsure how anyone can mitigate all eventualities in any case.

Christmas? perhaps in their selfish purchasing habits in the local stores as there is nothing left where I live.

Unsure why but after being in lockdown for 2 weeks in Italy their infection and death rate continues to climb rapidly.

Well, if the infection has up to two week incubation period, it might take up to two weeks before you’re even symptomatic. Then you need to get ill, then properly in trouble, then pass away and be reported. I can see that it can easily be two weeks or more before the effect of any action shows up in the death rate. If, in two more weeks, the death rate is still climbing, then there’s something wrong.

Firstly I'm not annoyed about anything. But I'm amazed that my pal that's got the virus intends to guard his grandchildren and his wife thinks it's been ok to continue working in a hospital during his first seven day isolation(not) and cooking and also sleeping in the same bed.
The schools off stuff is very complicated and I imagine a major headache for all the parents and teachers.

Poor Italy seem to have been at the brunt. But let's see. But isolation is the answer.

As for you're comment about the various dictator regimes in past in Europe. Really fella!

True but the incubation period appears to be circa 5 days and symptom develop just shy of 12 days.

Wow, could do with your expertise over here in France. Job done

Schools will be open - its just that they wont, generally, be open for pupils or teaching staff.

Unless I'm medically knocked out myself and isolated from school grounds, then I shall still be doing FM provision onsite - albeit with a now dynamically altering priority list !!

Our side street has started a Whatsapp group in which anyone needing, or offering, help can quickly post...I've a feeling this is not uncommon in small communities but for somewhere like Edinburgh where one often doesn't know one's neighbours it's very much Blitz-spirit.

Can't be bad - it seems to be part of the baggage at time of general danger.

https://www.wissenschaft.de/science...ensivbetten-in-europa-gesundheits-check/

Intensive care beds per 100,000 pop in each European country. Obviously for some people this is just more lies from the EU - "The UK being an Island nation that washes it hands more often and uses more soap needs fewer beds"

This crisis is going to bring many chickens home to roost but then perhaps only for those not so blind to see.

A 2012 graph...

Not sure where the 'for some people .. lies from the EU' comment comes from ??, but I would agree with the sentiment that the graph shows (I think).
The more people in this Country their are with selfish sloth mentality, using up medical resources for the binge drinking consequences and other selfish acts etc, the less money from the finite resource pot will be available for the individuals that are properly needy - and of course those numbers increasing daily.

THAT is the historical and acute crisis for the blind to see.........that will be morphing into the C-19 crisis.

Even later data shows a similar picture: https://data.oecd.org/healtheqt/hospital-beds.htm

The NHS does a lot with the resources at its disposal but other countries simply spend much more on health and should have more resources.

This is a joke right? No-one can be that stupid can they? (rhetorical question...I know how stupid people can be). Just very sad to read your words.

That's shocking.. My other half works for the NHS and has been instructed to move to a hotel if there is any risk of infection from home, paid for by the NHS

It's no joke and that's why a large part of the general public needs saving from themselves. Enforced sensible lockdown with enough give and take by the enforcement authority's to allow people to sensibly move about only when nessesary.

But like I mentioned before in my opinion the uk would have riots if a lockdown was enforced.

I observed at lunchtime today that you can't horde fish'n'chips... even working from home, the company buys lunch on thursdays!

Keep well everyone.
Hoping to bring out the coupe from hibernation imminently, so hopefully I can find an MoT station open for business in the coming weeks!

Blimey Mark you've been quiet - no water trouble down your manor I hope?

Better the measured response then, especially so given lockdown's in Italy and France is not giving the reductions as hoped. As for linked inner city issues the French for instance have their Parisian Banlieues (2005?) and the 'Banlieues' located around all of their major cities subject to endemic racism, poverty and inequality a powder keg of social discontent, interesting to see how the French have policed the 'gilets jaunes' protests and disorder a predominately white middle class reaction to government economic policy to that of the protest in the Banlieues' non white working class districts.

What I'm intrigued with is what techniques Germany is using to control it? Population of 82 million, 17300 cases but have 'only' 44 deaths. Is their screening / Covid19 surveillance more advanced than elsewhere?

I was hoping that my 4 year old daughter would be able to stay at school under the 'key worker' scheme as my partner is a hospital consultant doctor. Just had a call from the school and apparently both parents have to be key workers. She's part-time, but what that really means is she works an average of 6 days a week but gets paid for 4.

So basically we have a choice to make. I either give up my job or my partner gives up hers. I suspect a lot of people are in the same boat.

One on hand you've got people looking out for and helping others - such as people doing shopping for elderly neighbours, some shops giving away hand sanitizers for free, etc.

And then on the other hand you've got people only looking out for and helping themselves - such as panic shoppers causing chaos for others, people buying loads of high demand products and then selling them online at several times their original price, etc.

If you conduct yourself as a good person during the good times when you yourself are comfortable, it may be because of character, convenience or custom. But if you conduct yourself as a good person during the bad times when you yourself are uncomfortable, then that most certainly is because of character.

What I'm saying is, bad times reveal the true nature of people.

Dan the School is incorrect one parent has to be classed as a key worker.

We were wondering that too

I think it is good luck so far. The Germans are only testing really likely cases but the authorities are worried that an explosion in the number of serious case is just around the corner. Requests to stay at home as much as possible is getting stronger with fines being imposed as of tomorrow for meeting in groups (more than 3 if not family). Restaurants may not seat guests anymore. Takeaways and home deliveries are still allowed. Most other shops are shut apart from food stores, chemists, petrol stations and "DIY" shops.

It's all getting ridiculous now Luckily, I'm a stockpiling hoarder anyway, so have enough to keep me going, but I'm glad I'm already like this as each time I've gone to the supermarket, anything I want to keep stocked up on hasn't been available

Anything that is still on the shelves is the more expensive version I've had to pay extra for organic carrots as the usual, cheaper one weren't available. Even the Kale had sold out (I need this for my Bearded Dragon)

Lidl are limiting jars of sauce, tins of things like tinned tomatoes,etc., to one per transaction! There's no milk, bread,eggs etc Maybe it's because I couldn't get there until 7pm tonight and stock was already low?

On a more positive note though, it's nice to now be considered a 'key worker' and not at risk of losing my job or any money!

Good luck to all and stay safe!

As of midnight last night, only Australian nationals or residents can come in, so yesterday we had an influx of foreigners coming in so they could holiday. Tasmania, being an island State, was toying with the idea of raising the drawbridge and stopping everyone except residents coming in, but Federal laws overrule State, so now anyone coming in must self isolate for 2 weeks, as of midnight last night. My wife is in a mental health clinic in Melbourne, they're stopping visitors as of Monday, so I can't go and see her, if I did I'd have to isolate for 2 weeks on my return.

On another note, we've had idiots fighting over toilet paper in supermarkets, in the US people are lining up to buy guns. Two culturally different responses to people shitting themselves.

Ahh, Mick, the advantages of having that big "Moat" around you.

On a sad note, the Annual Fiat Nationals planned for 2 weeks time has been cancelled, although there are still plans to hold the Sprint meet, being dubbed the " Peroni Vs Corona Challenge".

For the first time since inception, the 72nd Brisbane to Gladstone Yacht Race at Easter has been cancelled. I think the main concern is the gathering of people before the start and at the finish (after 308nm of racing). Sad, because this would have been my 40th race and I also miss out on the cruise home.

Waiting for new Aussie slang to be born in the next few months:-
Early guesses:-

Sanny - Hand Sanitiser
In Iso - Self Isolation/Lockdown
The Rona - self explanatory
Magpie – Supermarket hoarder

In a Sentence :-

Me boss tested pozzi for the rona so now I’m in iso. Popped down to Woolies for some sanni but it’s been bloody magpied.

Makes sense to me!

Ah, she'll be fine!

As the gummint has kindly allowed the DIY shops to remain open, our plans for selling the house are temporarily stuffed, I guess...

Captive audience at the moment, I'm receiving scamming lowlife both on the computer & telephone much more than usual. In times like this, these sort of people have no scruples whatsoever.

That's right, she'll be right, Mate.

Me and the wife were in Portugal on holiday when this started to get serious in Europe. We had opportunities to leave but decided to stay.
No idea how long we will be here but so far so good. We realize that we could be here for months but quite happy with that.
We are still free to walk about so dog walking is no problem. Hopefully it will remain relatively free to at least get out for a walk every day. We’ll see.

We just flew back from there last Friday. The Portuguese seemed very efficient with sanitizer in the supermarkets/bars/restaurants etc.

From day one I haven't been totally convinced about this virus, many reports don't ring true, or add up. More research I've done the more I'm not convinced, lets hope I'm wrong. Anyway we all need to look outside the box.

But what's inside the box? Are there any toilet rolls in there?

Lots!!!

So that's why you want everybody else to look outside the box! So you can take all the toilet rolls! Outta my way! Those are my toilet rolls!!!! MINE!!!!!!!!

Hi Simon

Yes it's been a bit damp down here!
Cabin fever had me digging the garden as the sun has come out at last!
Hope all is well with you?

Mustn't grumble Mark

A former uni student offered us messages (i.e. do some shopping ) today and brought them by - all handed over proper (she safe-wiped the bags) and we pay straight into her bank account
My daughter's back over from Holland which is a relief but we have Dubai family too who work with Radisson - not a great time for them when they're forced to lay off staff as the trade is dead. And in Dubai there's "no unemployment" which means if you're not an Emirati you go back home when you have no job.

In these workless days I've started something I swore I'd never do again - polish a plenum
I found it during a clearout under the piano

Hi Simon, polishing aluminium Is time consuming to say the least. I used a drill with various grades of flappers then mops. Hang on in there......

The Australian PM has just announced that all clubs, pubs, cinemas, churches, restaurants and cafes will close tomorrow from midday. Restaurants and cafes will only be allowed to serve take-aways. Off-licences will still be able to sell grog as these premises do not see large gatherings of people. Accommodation attached to hotels can still operate.

At this stage, schools will still be open.

More to follow!

Doom! Catastrophe! Waily waily... my chippy has closed for a fortnight!

Neil

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Probably the only reason the next person caught stuffing their trolley regardless won't be lynched is that we're not allowed crowds.

Ooh but we could watch it from home

This is the music that plays inside the heads of panic shoppers...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tnKWArk9kM4

Especially the bit at 26 to 32 seconds.

We’re in isolation as my daughter has “classic” covid symptoms (new persistent cough, fever). She’s in good spirits but worried because the anti-leukaemia drug she is still on (3-year regime technically puts her into the at-risk category.

B&B & caravan parks are being closed up here due to Southerners coming up to the Highlands to try & hide away from the virus. My Soninlaw told me that you cannot buy a food freezer anywhere in Inverness or surrounding area.....

I think the NHS could very well suffer with a greater influx of people who are infirm, elderly or grossly overweight who have all having sat at home for years over indulging suddenly decided to take to the streets in lycra jogging when the message is now to isolate and stay indoors, the irony.

I'm really sorry to hear this Richard, she has been through so much recently as has your son. Life just isn't fair. I hope she recovers quickly and is back to full health soon.

All the best to Evie, you and all the family, Rich.

Thanks, both. She’s got the at-risk text from NHS today but they were great when we phoned them to find out what she needed to do (go straight to hospital if she starts to get breathing difficulties). She’s still in good spirits.

It’s slightly odd behaving in a way that stops her giving us an infection rather than us giving an infection to her.

Seems Charlie has it too.

Advice to Eve was that being young was far more of a positive than the downsides of the drug she’s taken.

Best to you and yours, Richard; sometimes it sounds like it never stops.



My mother on Skye is concerned that her food stores are down to about six months... I think she's expecting zombies. Though I point out she's got a garden (aka the swamp) full of ducks and she's always complaining about the deer breaking the fence... shame she gave the guns to the police a while back

Polishing a plenum ....almost sounds like a euphemism!
Keep well.

It does almost resemble a euphonium.....

And now it looks as if I can't escape from the ordeal of completing the task

Well that didn't take long...

Well, I now have symptoms - relatively mild though I’ve taken to my bed. I think that’s all of us in the last few days and no two are the same. Frustrating not to have a test because, once you know you’ve had it, you could be one of the 250,000 volunteers etc.

Very good, if I hum it, you can play it!

Wishing you a speedy recovery MRS.

This FT article makes for an interesting read, discussing the differing modelling carried out by researchers.

Seems we are following the basic advice of Imperial College which is somewhat gloomier than University of Oxford et al...

The Daily Fail publishes most of the same article but elected to omit a couple of fairly significant bits
Daily Mail

Wishing you all a speedy and full recovery. Totally agree about the frustration - our household would love to volunteer.

Unfortunately I don’t have an FT sub. Radio 4’s More or Less programme covered something similar. One interesting fact was that the likelihood of dying from CV19 (in a two week period) is the same as dying in the year. ie if you’re 85, your chance of dying from a CV19 is the same as your chance of dying this year (listen for a better explanation). Another interesting stat is that only 100 people have died from seasonal flu vs the usual 6000-ish. The figures from Iran are clearly nonsense (I was thinking that yesterday looking at the Johns Hopkins charts - they’re all very similar in shape except Iran)

I’m still feeling pretty crap but not too horrible

If it's not unethical here it is

Clive Cookson, Science Editor, FT, YESTERDAY


The new coronavirus may already have infected far more people in the UK than scientists had previously estimated — perhaps as much as half the population — according to modelling by researchers at the University of Oxford.

If the results are confirmed, they imply that fewer than one in a thousand of those infected with Covid-19 become ill enough to need hospital treatment, said Sunetra Gupta, professor of theoretical epidemiology, who led the study. The vast majority develop very mild symptoms or none at all.

“We need immediately to begin large-scale serological surveys — antibody testing — to assess what stage of the epidemic we are in now,” she said.

The modelling by Oxford’s Evolutionary Ecology of Infectious Disease group indicates that Covid-19 reached the UK by mid-January at the latest. Like many emerging infections, it spread invisibly for more than a month before the first transmissions within the UK were officially recorded at the end of February.

The research presents a very different view of the epidemic to the modelling at Imperial College London, which has strongly influenced government policy. “I am surprised that there has been such unqualified acceptance of the Imperial model,” said Prof Gupta. 

However, she was reluctant to criticise the government for shutting down the country to suppress viral spread, because the accuracy of the Oxford model has not yet been confirmed and, even if it is correct, social distancing will reduce the number of people becoming seriously ill and relieve severe pressure on the NHS during the peak of the epidemic.

The Oxford study is based on a what is known as a “susceptibility-infected-recovered model” of Covid-19, built up from case and death reports from the UK and Italy. The researchers made what they regard as the most plausible assumptions about the behaviour of the virus.

The modelling brings back into focus “herd immunity”, the idea that the virus will stop spreading when enough people have become resistant to it because they have already been infected. The government abandoned its unofficial herd immunity strategy — allowing controlled spread of infection — after its scientific advisers said this would swamp the National Health Service with critically ill patients. 

But the Oxford results would mean the country had already acquired substantial herd immunity through the unrecognised spread of Covid-19 over more than two months. If the findings are confirmed by testing, then the current restrictions could be removed much sooner than ministers have indicated.

Although some experts have shed doubt on the strength and length of the human immune response to the virus, Prof Gupta said the emerging evidence made her confident that humanity would build up herd immunity against Covid-19.

To provide the necessary evidence, the Oxford group is working with colleagues at the Universities of Cambridge and Kent to start antibody testing on the general population as soon as possible, using specialised “neutralisation assays which provide reliable readout of protective immunity,” Prof Gupta said. They hope to start testing later this week and obtain preliminary results within a few days.

For every academic view there is a completely opposite academic view and they all say the data supports their hypothesis...

Our household has been in some sort of lock down for a wee while before it was made official due mainly for our son. Obviously I take heed of the news, but in all honesty I'm not going looking for statistics & other facts that in the end are of no real value in this situation. Keep lock in as much as possible & keep washing the hands. Just my thoughts.

Totally agree and I deal with academia on a regular basis and there's a fair amount of inter-academic jealousy out there. Though I think ICL's best case 20k death rate in the UK sounds exaggerated but what do I know. I don't think it's helpful that this is played out in public either as it just fuels confusion imho. Bottom line is do we want to face the issues which Italy and Spain have at the moment? Hunker down and carry on for the foreseeable I reckon.

I do wonder about myself; at the end of last year I was displaying all the symptoms of CV before we went on holiday to the far east... the doctors were unable to identify whatever it was I had. I really think we need to see wide area testing for antibodies.

Agree with you G_Man- their theories always get debunked in the end whether that be positivism, broken window theory or whatever. I referred to broken window theory in 2005 when planning a scheme to design out crime in a city centre. It was great to justify the funding and crime also dropped...in the area the scheme ran...but actually displaced to other areas not reduced at all. A professor at the Scarman centre then Academically slagged off the scheme because...you guessed it...he was an advocate of the differing viewpoint.

Interesting Neil, also before Christmas Mrs Ed had an unheard of sore throat (bad), headaches, aching limbs and listlessness for over two months. The doc couldn't find anything but on the second occasion sent her to hospital for a check-up - they found nothing either.

Things are certainly getting tougher here in Australia with a number of State and Territory borders closed to all but essential travel (freight delivery etc).

Grocery stores have had restrictions on a lot of items (because of panic buying) for a while and now our large hardware chain has also introduced restrictions on cleaning items as well as batteries and fuel storage containers. The restrictions include turps and metho of which I always keep a supply at home for all those jobs around the house so I have no need to rush out and buy some.

With pubs and clubs closed and only off licences operating, Western Australia has even imposed restrictions on the amount one can buy; guess they don't want alcohol fuelled gatherings.

In Queensland we have two rum distilleries, Bundaberg and Beenleigh. They have both now altered their production to produce ethanol for hand sanitizers. Lucky I have a supply of Bundy Rum in the cupboard!

An article in one of our Sunday newspapers (written by a journo who is also a mother) was about personal hygiene and how this is now being pushed by the Government. She wrote about how we should have all learnt this in kindergarten, how "Miss Tania" instilled in her pupils the correct way to wash our hands, how to cough/ sneeze correctly, and give each other that bit of personal space. Looks like a lot of her pupils have forgotten the basics!

Well now I AM confused. Dr Neil Ferguson (from Imperial College) has been reported in the The Times (11 hours ago or so) as saying the UK WILL probably cope better than he forecast originally - even saying that the expected number of deaths might well be not far off those that would have been expected anyway this year.

IF this is so, why has neither C4 news nor BBC online news even mentioned it in passing? They pride themselves in scooping the latest titbit so unless Ferguson has been held at knifepoint by the Times or they have been gagged, what is going on?

Vlogs from NY also say hospitals are deserted and ambulances standing outside with crews tucking into lunch.

Of course THEY might be making it up....

My dad is in his 80’s with a heart condition and lives in Cornwall many miles from me. His view is that this is no worse than the flu and refuses to stay indoors..

The same people around here, clapping the NHS last night, are the same people that are having friends and family around as usual and sitting in the garden enjoying the sun, while the people like me are in work and keeping away from family due to the worry with this virus.

Sick of hearing about 'frontline staff', when the likes of me is exposed to it more, with no protection besides some gloves and a shitty mask!

Agree with you Theresa - there are many out there who have responsibility for risk groups without any PPE who fall through the cracks. My Mum and Dad are in very sheltered housing in Edinburgh and the staff have none apart from gloves and is a real worry.



I think NF has said that comments have been taken out of context and sticks with his modelling based on the measures being adhered to. My humble view is if the claims that C19 were circulating in the UK back in January then why didn't the UK experience the death rate increasing earlier? This first UK death was only on the 5th March and now sits at 760.

Came across this from 2018 which is the science, maths and medicine behind pandemics:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p059y0p1

Quite prophetic given the current situation...

Agree with above. I can't see how the virus arrived much earlier, given the % of people needing hospital treatment. My main concern is why we seem to have been caught with our pants down in the UK when we knew what was coming. It doesn't inspire confidence.

If course they're are things we probably don't know so it's difficult to know whether the right decisions were made.

And as for peddling the idea that it's not a big deal (e.g. Certain world leaders) to think China and Italy would shut down millions of people without justification is a bit of a stretch.

Once this is all over, I truly hope there is a change in peoples' attitudes.

A lot of people like to toot their own horn and arrogantly act as if they are very important just because of their well paying job that has a fancy sounding title. And on top of that a lot of people obsess over celebrities in general.

Well, as this situation has proven, when the shit hit the fan, it quickly became very clear who the essential workers were.

Thank you Theresa, and to everybody else that is an essential worker during these times. Be safe everyone!

Well said JKD..

Yes indeed. Glad the likes of Tim Martin and Mike Ashley were publicly 'lynched' by Social Media; all the captains of industry, bankers, movie stars, sports personalities, celebrities and 'our' false idols suddenly nowhere and no-one really cares as they are unimportant and their fees/wages/benefits a disgrace. If only such a social crisis would provide more equality, ethical markets. fairer taxation, the end to food poverty, more parity in pay and benefits et al. Alas those at the top have all bunkered down many weeks ago, shifted their business models to exploit and make money or a pretence of being in it with us all, cranked up the bullshit and propaganda machines and rhetoric and will re-emerge once they feel it is medically safe to do so whilst those at the bottom of the social order who have kept society functioning putting their lives at risk are all ready to be further exploited and fleeced once again when this is over....for instance the delivery drivers keeping our larders stocked and enabling products to continue to be purchased online as the High St closes are not even considered as employees in most companies they have no sick pay, zero hour contracts, an atrociously poor hourly rate of pay, no holiday pay, no protection from exploitation.

I don't think the UK was caught out with it's pants down, vote for neo-liberalism you get neo-liberalism. Thankfully it would appear the Govt has been unable to continue such policies in light of this crisis risking the 'wheel coming off' and to me that proves to some extent that there are far better viable options for a fairer, healthier society when there is the impetus to undertake it.

Mrs JB, an eminently well woman, was absolutely flattened by something in November last, off colour for two/three weeks, flu-like symptoms, persistent cough, shortness of breath, raging fever. Last time I saw her ill like that was 18 yrs ago when 38 weeks pregnant with our youngest when she was hospitalised with a form of Norovirus.
I firmly believe she had Covid19 last year, we've all likely had it within the house, in different formats, and as has been said, if we were tested we could all get out there to help others safely. But of course key workers are a priority for testing (although we 5 could become 'safe temporary key workers'). I don't think we will ever know the truth about Wuhan and when it all really started due to the Chinese propaganda machine anyway, hence my suspicion about Mrs JB.

Stay well all.

I was also suffering from Nov right the way through to mid Jan with Covid like symptoms and I thought I had the ‘proper’ flu rather than a usual cold. Along with the shortness of breath, cough and temperature at one point my whole body was aching including bizarrely my fingernails which were painful to touch. Two weeks in it got better for a couple of days before returning and completely flooring me. I spent 4 days in bed pretty much unable to do anything

I was knocked out with the worse 'flu I've ever had last October/November. Temperature of well over 39, couldn't get out of bed and ended up going to hospital with pneumonia. Ironically, I had had the flu jab for the first time.

Sounds like there was something Nasty doing the rounds in Leicester Dan

I think the truth about the current situation is that we’re realising our reliance on the people that actually do physical good: keep us healthy, fed, warm, clean, safe etc rather than simply entertained or some of the other superficial stuff.

I’m going to throw in a shout for engineers, scientist and associated technicians. There’s no talk of power cuts, water turning off or, indeed, many issues with the internet or other comms. We’ve come to expect that we can have ventilators, face masks, and various tests at our finger tips in days. Behind the scenes, hospitals keep running - the equipment works - despite us not having spent much money on it. The maintenance staff continue to ensure it does. It’s always interested me that Germany has a much higher respect for its technical folk than many countries and maybe this is why. Certainly it’s those people that have created the wealth in that country.

There are lots of fabulous people doing amazing things out there. And there’s a lot of people who are of very little use to us right now.

Speaking as one of the latter, a big shout out to the former.

This enforced hiatus has led to a lot of reflection in our household - I think a lot will change for good and sometimes for the better.

As an NHS worker who is not considered 'frontline' even though we have a lot of contact with the virus, patients with the virus and of course, the deceased that had/have the virus, I would like to thank all the shop workers and delivery drivers, etc., that are also experiencing the same (although hopefully not with the deceased ones lol), but without the recognition the NHS are having.

They are the ones that are keeping us all going and deserve as much praise as the NHS

Hey Theresa, my daughter is a charge nurse in Raigmore Hospital & she values everyone in her team including her cleaners & all associated, she even took under her wing the woman who ran a wee shop in her path to her office & checked on her when she could. Emotions running high they have a wee greet & catch up. My daughter feels she gets as much out of this as others.

My wife is considered “critical” nhs staff - the level of stress put upon her and her tea is ridiculous . Sometimes I get miffed when chatting with mates having a bit of a feet up Friday “Working from home” some have asked when she’ll start working from home or have time off - the answer is not a choice for her really - whilst I’m in the high risk category we made a decision that she’s needed and we will hold as long as we can... this is a massive risk for me personally as I take a heady mixture of immunosuppressant drugs for my condition. I play it down so as not to put much on her but she’s aware of the risks as am I. People are making tough choices out there - don’t forget that. I applaud the nhs staff in totality and also shop keepers and workers. We should be in shutdown. Now. 5 week minimum .

Daughter home after a long emotional shift & dropping off food/shopping for us, still having to keep our distance. She was on emergency cases & they've been told new rules. Old gentleman came in 70 although he did have the virus it wasn't the covid19, she had to see to other younger admissions & unfortunately the 70 year old died. Nothing she could do. She told us they are under immense pressure & this is the way it's going. Very sad indeed.

Shattering for her Jim, when you're already at full stretch as all these guys involved are, this is a kick in the guts. The irony is perhaps it will take this situation for "a" government to rethink their strategy on the NHS, hopefully more creatively and positively.

Do you know what would be more out of touch than this video in the current situation?

A celebrity wiping their ass with a wad of cash in front of a person who can't find any toilet rolls anywhere!

Experienced "a first" yesterday, Monday. Had my regular six monthly consultation with my GP over the phone.

My GP, a recent import from Scotland, phoned me at the appointed time to review some tests I had undertaken over the last few months and to renew my 6 monthly prescription for the one drug that he has me on.

All was good, as expected, and it was, "see you in six months time". He also thought it was great that I had a few bottles of Vino Rosso on hand to keep the cholesterol down in these troubled times.

That's all the justification I need. (as there's no wine emoji)

Most people will leave their homes like this when the lockdown is finally over...

Freedom!

How are you all doing Richard?


Just heard this morning that my youngest Ben whom some of you have met as a regular at the Carlisle Christmas meet has come down with it, feverish this morning after feeling iffy for a few days. He and his wife and two small kids have had suspected colds and a cough, however he has type 1 diabetes to cope with as well.

I’m OK, thanks, but still not completely right. I had a lot of the classic symptoms of a mild to moderate infection: dry cough but not too bad, fever around 38C, muscle aches (especially lower back and legs) and very slight tightness of chest. Now I’m just exhausted easily.

I hope Ben recovers quickly - age does seem to be the key factor.

I hope Ben gets better soon and the rest of the family are ok!

I hope you feel better soon MRS too!

Please do stay away from your family and friends where possible. I haven't been to my Mum's for weeks and haven't seen my grandsons for weeks neither, as I'm scared of passing anything on to them

Things at hospitals are changing on a daily basis and nothing is looking any better at the moment, so please take all the precautions you can.

Thanks T It must be said you are one of the vital people helping us all at the NHS so stay safe!

One of our gang of four involved in our project car is also in hospital, he has underlying health conditions and is not doing too well atm. He's on maximum oxygen and we've got all fingers crossed....

Fingers firmly crossed for him Edinburgh!

Got to say - I think people have on the whole done an amazing job staying in - its like day of the triffids out there!

But when Politicians start threatening people that they may be stopped going out all together (Mat Hancock live tv interview Sunday 5.04.2020) then they risk loosing the good will of the populace.

We are getting through this - some good signs coming from Norway and Czech Republic who are looking to return to normal. We just have to keep at it a little bit longer.

Hope all are doing well!

Regards

MM

How are doing MRS? I hope you're recovering?

How's Ben, Simon? Also, how's the one in your gang? I hope he's ok.

Have you watched the comedy Still Game? Tell Chris (think he's your son in law?) that he reminds me of Tam

This.

When a member of the government stands on his hind legs in front of the cameras and states "This is not a request, it is an order" it means nothing more than that he has forgotten that he is there to represent the people. It didn't even seem to occur to him that he doesn't hold his position by divine will nor that his 'order' is effective only as long as people choose to obey it.

As long as the government is saying 'please do this, for this, this, and this reason', and the action and the reasons make some sort of sense, then the majority of the populace will go along with it; when they say "do this or else" then their ability to enforce is the limiting factor... and there are a lot more people out here than there are in the house of parliament or even the police and army. And if sufficiently displeased, people *will* do things that are not in their best apparent interest.

There is the Rule of Law, problem is the conflict between Statute and Government guidance....for instance the law does not state you cannot drive somewhere to take your daily exercise. Most people are going along with the guidance but as ever there are those in abundance who are incapable of following the law, rules and guidance in their lives, that said the there are legal differences on what can and cannot be done in England NI, Scotland and Wales. I guess there is governance by consent in the UK in the purest sense, my take is it is far more like an 'elective dictatorship'.

What is more concerning for me is the 'snooper/grass' website forms that have been introduced for UK citizen's to fill in to inform the police on possible Covid contraventions by their neighbour's especially given the police are logistically incapable of effectively ensuring a (full) lockdown.....mirroring how the Nazi's were able to get German society to self police and grass on their neighbours through the SS/Gestapo's Army of Spies; thereby allowing the Nazi's heinous policies and actions to be enforced and tolerated through instilling the sense of duty and causing fear/terror and paranoia; such policies set a worrying precedent in the UK. The lack of Parliament sitting is also concerning given the issues and personalities within the Tory Cabinet and larger clique.

I’m pretty good, thanks, T, though it’s taken me much longer to get nearly properly right than I thought. Today is probably the first day that I’ve felt mostly normal.

Chris was my er, future intended son-in-law, but that didn't make it in the end. However he and Ben are still mates as you can see from his regular attendance at Carlisle and he is still a friend to Mrs Ed and myself.

Ben's temp was reading normal this morning thank goodness. His 4-year old daughter has just contracted chicken-pox!

Fortunately my daughter who normally lives in Holland with her significant other is back over here, along with him, and they have been able to supply Ben and family with provisions, paracetamol and calamine care packages

Yes indeed, Still Game is something I've watched since the outset, many years ago, and love the characterisations - the storylines often have pathos as well as downright directness and have a strong community ethic even if they are often knocking six verbal bells out of each other

I don't know if I want to tell Chris he reminds you of Tam though

George is still in hospital after a week on oxygen, we need him to turn a corner ...

At least you're feeling better MRS, that's good news, even if it has taken longer than expected.

Simon-I'm glad Ben's temperature is normal now, although a shame about his daughter contracting chicken pox! Better now than later in life I suppose.
Still Game is brilliant Chris only reminds me of Tam due to the accent and blonde hair Chris won't mind anyway and will probably find it funny

Still game wasn't available to anyone outside of Scotland, but now it's on Netflix, it's worth telling everyone how good it is

I hope George recovers and am sure he's being well looked after and I wish him all the best.

I thought this news might be 10 days too late for April fools day, but it seems that it's taken until 11th April for BBC production medical drama Holby City to donate fully working ventilators from its set at Elstree to be used in London's new NHS Nightingale Hospital. The corporation shared the news in a tweet, with a photo of workers unloading equipment from a van.

While clearly this is welcome news, it's probably a good job they made this gesture before the press / licence payers became aware.

I think it's strange that Holby City/Casualty even had working ventilators, etc on their set!

I thought that as well Thersa........

I suspect it's a case of someone suddenly remembering that it was cheaper to have the real kit instead of expensive props...

I have this sinking feeling that the UK have been caught with our pants down with C19. When Germany was on with mass testing and tracing this was the comment from the Leader of the House:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f727NW9KeuA

2nd March this was - fast forward to 12th April and we have an excess of 10k dead

I think when we get through this serious questions really need to be asked.

In the meantime everyone do take care and hope any club member, family or friends who has this flippin virus fully recover to full health ..

I think you're right, there's going to be some very difficult questions that need to be asked. I saw an interesting article by Noam Chomsky that although written from a US perspective is worth a read. For example:

1) Two months before the novel coronavirus is thought to have begun its deadly advance in Wuhan, China, the Trump administration ended a $200 million pandemic early-warning program aimed at training scientists in China and other countries to detect and respond to such a threat

2) The Obama administration had recognized the potential problem. It ordered high-quality low-cost ventilators from a small company that was then bought by a large corporation, Covidien, which shelved the project, apparently because the products might compete with its own high-cost ventilators. It then informed the government that it wanted to cancel the contract because it was not profitable enough


3) As recently as March 2, the Trump Administration was encouraging American businesses to increase exports of medical supplies, especially to China. Yet, during this period, the U.S. government was well aware of the harms of COVID-19, including a likely need for additional respirators and masks. So manufacturers and middlemen made money in the first two months of the year shipping medical supplies out of the country, and now they’re making more money in the next two months shipping them back in.

https://truthout.org/articles/choms...id-19-we-must-imagine-a-different-world/
https://truthout.org/articles/choms...es-the-cruelty-of-neoliberal-capitalism/

Interesting read Cyborg

Pandemic impact on the UK was identified as a Tier 1 threat back in 2010 (similar to the likes of cyber attack and terrorism) and still remains a Tier 1 10 years on. So what's been done to plan for this eventuality? Irrespective of what the virus may be surely PPE is a given in any situation and they would have slowly stockpiled in preparation. This isn't a case of hindsight - it was fully on HMG's radar! The Dunkirk spirit of Mrs Miggins in readiness with her sewing machine to stitch masks just ain't good enough..

It's not an acceptable situation regarding the PPE but when you realise that a lot of the red tape in terms of blockages is on the Chinese side, as already said they have been buying up large amount of the stock effectively removing it from access, some of this is outside of our control. PPE does not have an indefinite lifespan either. Out of date or faulty PPE is also useless. Whatever failings there are at some point there will be a review that identifies them, and big business that manipulates things in the background so that they are effectively ignored. Its how our world operates.

Yes - we need to learn from this. But I do believe we had the PPE stockpiles, we didn’t have the means to effectively distribute it.

We probably need to keep this all within the perspective of the things people die of every day and some of the lack of provision that exists there. The big difference is that we are largely all affected by this.

I thought it was rather ironic Boris thanking the Portuguese and NZ nurses that looked after him. Most of the nurses and doctors that looked after Eve were non-Brit but fab and many (most?) left in the light of the Brexit vote leaving the ward/hospital short-staffed.

We make PPE in the UK, there is a place in Witney that makes masks, eye protection, face shields etc. In fact at the end of Jan, the place I work sent out 100+ face masks out to our Shanghai distributer as they couldn't get any over there.

The UK Government knew how bad it was going to get when the Chinese didn't go back to work after their New Year - and seemingly did nothing to plan for it.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ndemic-stockpile-fell-by-40-in-six-years

You couldn't make it up ..

Yes totally Barnacle.

The police actually stopping people to check their shopping bags-and to then determine if what they have bought was what they considered to be "essential" has not helped the cause.

good news from Sweden-where they have not shut down. And from Czech republic and Germany where they seem to be on the verge of lifting lockdwo rules.

Yes - and at least one Police chief has released a video saying in his view " things will NEVER go back to what people used to thing of as normal".

on the website to the force he belongs to -front page when you log in- is an on line form asking people to tell if they THINK they see someone breaking lockdown rules. Time, place, date, name, descriptiuon- picture or video if you can, ring 999 if necessary.

Stalin would be pleased. I find it very worrying. Much more worrying then covid frankly.

lets hope that we are through the peak and getting back to a normal way to live. it may be the cabin fever talking - but sitting inside is not what humans are meant to do.

Regards

I pretty much agree with what MM says. Certainly the powers under the new act are quite draconian and potentially far reaching. Most of my former colleagues around the country are going for a common sense approach to the law- so no change there. In fact the last thing any cop I have spoken to really wants to do is be heavy handed although it does happen. They want to be catching the scrotes and snafus that make everyones lives a misery.

There of course will be occasions where the response doesn't seem proportionate, and where an heavy handed approach is taken, and also those helped by the small piece of the overall video footage that supports the viewpoint. Peel said 'the police are the public and the public are the police' so its logical that there are going to be a few arseholes that slip into the job, as that's representative of the public in general. Most abide by the law (or the laws that are important to them), and most cops (and ive managed thousands) want to do a good job.

Even in normal situations there are those who don't think the law applies to them, those who aren't interested in the spirit of the law, those who will stretch it as far as possible to see what they can get away with. Its the policing by consent bit of the 'agreement' between police and public that will get tested the longer the lockdown continues. Normally most people only see the police when something bad has happened, and that's what is changing as officers have to speak to those who wouldn't have had any interaction before- usually while sunbathing on their own away from anyone else.

Edit* all fuelled by the great british 'why let the truth get in the way of a good story' media.

I found the Nazi reference an interesting comparison though, there are already a plethora of mediums to report concerns about what people think may be happening be it Crimestoppers, Prevent or otherwise.

Quite frankly any comparison to the SS/ Gestapo /Spies is ridiculous ..........

The Govt has to be seen to have powers to stop the idiots who are flaunting any lockdown rules .

Yes loads of mistakes/ issues with how, almost all Govt's have handled this ,and some far better than ours, mainly the usual countries who are mega efficient---- Germany ,Switzerland ,Sweden .....who's population, in the whole, mainly does what is asked of it.

I am 62 I don't want to catch it ...jujst incase I am one of the unlucky one ,to me its like playing Russian Roulette ,we have no idea who the virus is going to pick next.

So I'm sorry to say until this is cleared up by a vaccine or whatever ,or until the lockdown is lifted if I see my neighbours having parties ...I would be one of the ones who would phone the Police and ask to have it stopped !!!


And err exactly what my 29 year old daughter did in London with her neighbours last week . She wasn't too concerned about herself ,but she has neighbours on both sides of this party that are over 80 .......she was thinking of them .

Play the game and none of the police measures are relevant , but unfortunately ,there are too many selfish A'holes out their that make having these rules necessary.

stay safe and we will all come out the other side ..........

and DON'T drink disinfectant

I have no reason to disagree with anything you have wrote!

It's been 'interesting' to see the stance that the BBC news took this morning to the report that Dominic Cummings has been attending the Scientific Advisory Group. They selectively quoted an interview with one of the actual scientists implying that there was no reason to be concerned. I'd listened to his interview on r4 an hour earlier and this wasn't the context he'd said it in. The story isn't even featuring on their main headline page anymore and has been demoted into the abyss, unlike Sky news. I'm increasingly starting to wonder if this is deliberate.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...gs-of-scientific-advisory-group-11978508

If people like David Davis are concerned then I think we should all be. SAGE is there to form a consensus and then advise, not be steered by a political advisor in the advice it gives. I see a real parallel with that idiot Trump yesterday instructing his medical advisors to go to test his UV light & disinfectant theory.

The reporting on the benefits of face masks and the anti-body test has also been concerning as the words they are using is tantamount to mis-direction.

Hey, it's the BBC (AKA the Ministry of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda), does anyone really take anything they say seriously any more?

They had an article which said 1) Face masks don't help 2) Buying them will only limit the supply for NHS workers. Er, what? "Journalism" at it's finest.

The BBC reviews on the "Trust Pilot" site are interesting :

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.bbc.co.uk

I’m normally OK with what the BBC do given the very tricky line they have to walk - and they are also humans after all. Mrs MRS has taken to listening to LBC and it really highlights how the BBC have to try to remain balanced. But some of the coverage has really disappointed me - including the press briefing questions. I read the BBC’s report on the TTP/Dyson ventilator project that I’ve been very close to and there was some unnecessary (and wildly inaccurate) speculation in the report that didn’t seem to serve any purpose but to try to add sensation. After all, it’s good news that we (in the U.K. at least) don’t need extra ventilators (for the time being at least) and that the public won’t need to pay the £20m it has cost to develop a ventilator from parts that are available in a month.

In our household there has been dissatisfaction over many years concerning the "selective" reporting offered by the BBC. I for one desperately want to believe in it as a fair and balanced source of news but even Auntie falls short of this for whatever reason of pressure from above, directors in pockets of more influential people etc.

Like our preferred news source on Channel4 (mainly because of its heavyweight team including Alex Thomson, Matt Frei, Linsey Hilsum and Gary Gibbon amongst others) it prefers to concentrate on mortality, gloom and pessimism, consistently avoiding reports of recovery and visions of positive outcome.

Even though C4 has temporarily driven us away by its negativity we will still likely return to it at some stage as its in-depth journalism is hard to beat.

Did the police come out when your daughter rang them Paul?

I've debated ringing them a few times regarding my neighbours having friends/family around for get togethers, but didn't want to waste their time

I haven't seen my family for weeks, as due to working in a hospital, I'm worried I might pass it to them:( It really pisses me off seeing my neighbours carry on having their friends and family around!

When I hear about your neighbours Theresa I have some sympathy with you. Unfortunately for my family we also live next door to a house which is rented out to people who don't think the rules apply to them- nothing has changed and they still get the usual numbers of probation hostel dweller types calling round, daily yawping and shouting expletives at each other, and the stench of cannabis coming from their boundary still spoils time in our garden. Ive thought about contacting the locals but things with this family and us are tense and it could turn into something far far worse. Just before I retired, and after a ding dong domestic with his wife the fine upstanding gentleman smashed his way into his property via the French doors using an iron bar. Although I was off duty (you are never off duty) I went next door to check that his wife and the kids were ok and nicked him as the locals were 11 minutes away. She wouldn't provide a statement but I detest domestic abuse so provided one myself which saw him get dealt with at court. So I weigh up the pros and cons of reporting them and as the cons include many months of misery waiting for due process to get shot of them, I haven't done so.

Hi Theresa
Yes they came round within 1/2 hour and broke the party up — apparently took all their names etc and issued them with warnings saying they have had a warning —next time they will be charged

Aye! unfortunately out of the lock in comes bad stories. I consider myself lucky where I live, very much village life quietly goes along. My lovely next door neighbour died a few years ago & his wife recently has been put in a care home, so directly next to us absolutely no movement or noise whatsoever. However village life has changed over the years, more people have came to reside here, just like other places up & down the country. It is a desirable place. There are a couple of families who, are not to sound pompous non desirables & drink & drugs are their hobbies. We only hear about one family way down the road from us & you can read about their exploits in the local paper. Another tribe lives a couple of hundred yards up the road, I pass their house now & again & often hear shouting & swearing, of course they own a couple of hounds from hell, you know the ones. In saying all this I've never engaged with them & directly have not been bothered.

On a last note, I can only shudder & feel for the women who are subjected to all kinds of cruelty during the lock in.

Keep up beat everyone.

Bit harsh, Jim.

Where did that comma come from....

Computer virus Jim

(in isolation) ....It's everywhere!

Really interesting reading all the comments,

What a pleasure to see different points of view, discussed politely and evenly.

Yes very much agree with what you all say- well thought out - MRS, Edinburgh, GrahamL, Cyborg, all mirror my own view of the values of the British Media/BBC in particular. Over the years I have learnt the pinch of salt method is the best with british Media. The start of the Covid 19 "do NOT wear masks they won't help" and last weeks "People may HAVE to wear masks to use public transport" was a really good example.

And good points re Germany, Switzerland and their ultra reliability -I've had a view point for some time that UK could take about 4 weeks of this and then people would start to get cabin fever. And the Government needs to then think about an exit strategy.

I hear those who say they think the covid laws are good and needed. I think that those silly enough to flout the rules get whats coming to them. And rather then then me I say!

But I have this feeling that the average person is getting itchy feet. And the increase in traffic and now shops legally re-opening is just the start. People have done really really well in general, We have seen sites in the last month never seen-even in World War 1 or 2.

But I think people need that exit strategy about now-or else people are just going to start edging back to normal. A lot of people are cut off from loved ones, vulnerable family members, and no income.

Fingers crossed an exit plan is coming.

Stay safe all - broad lit, sunny uplands hopefully close to the horizon!

Regards

MM

It was there all along, you just couldn't see it.

Comma chameleon.

hmmm......."move to crap joke thread" will I, won't I.....




.

"I’m normally OK with what the BBC do given the very tricky line they have to walk - and they are also humans after all. Mrs MRS has taken to listening to LBC and it really highlights how the BBC have to try to remain balanced."
What tricky line do they have to walk ? They are forcefully funded by the British tax payer and should just pressent the news with no right (fat chance ) or left angle just the news .I stopped paying my tv license last month I don't watch the BBC gave up in the last couple of years . In fact they have stopped people from doing this as so many people wont pay for it anymore We all all human including ITVnews,SKYnews,c4 and Five news . I don't get the "human part" what has that got to do with the bbc . I have Listened to LBC 97.3 for the last 30 years . I get it for free and i know whos on and what politicial leaning they are . Ferrari right wing . Obrien left wing . Fogarty left wing .Mair left wing .Farage right wing . Iian dale on the fence . Swarbick left wing and i am ok with that . The BBC in its current form is doomed

I imagine that's what Rupert wants.

I think you’ve perfectly illustrated all of my points why it’s so difficult for the BBC.

Depending upon your point of view, you will decide whether they have a specific bias (all bias is relative to the observer to some extent). You’ve also shown that all individuals (humans) have political leanings. On LBC they’re able to wear those openly. On the BBC, as you seem to have pointed out, they are not allowed to. Personally, I prefer that. O’Brien was painful to listen to yesterday, for instance, because it was just constant sniping at every individual of the government - often in an unreasonable way. I have sympathy with pretty much every leader/government (Trump excepted) dealing with C-19. We don’t accept our leaders learning on the job and we judge them only on the information that’s available right now. That’s a bit like giving the verdict in a trial at the midway point.

I’m not liking the BBC right now but, yes, all the staff are humans, they all have careers to think about (quite a few, like Mair, of commercial broadcasters have ex-BBC) but they also have to appear neutral, keep it edgy when appropriate, and inform, educate and entertain.

Personally, I’m glad that there’s some public service broadcasting. It provides an imperfect benchmark against which to judge the others by and avoids us getting a Fox News style broadcaster.

I tend to agree with the opinions posted. There seems to be only one story in the news and there seems to be a lack of balance in respect of reporting various facets of it whether it’s jobs, NHS resources, testing etc that I have watched on BBC and Channel 4. Don’t get me started on ITV’s Robert Preston.....
Panorama last night for instance had contributions from what turns out are all supporters of one party it seems and it is becoming more “normal” that there are no balancing opinions given.
The standards of interviewing have become dire but also overly aggressive with questions being asked then talking over people if the response is not what was wanted or direct enough. I think there is media fatigue building up and people will simply switch off if it continues.
What ever happened to factual reporting?:(

Spot on.

Went to the supermarket the other day and there was another shopper in the queue who for the purposes of this post I shall call Prick. One of the other shoppers got too close to Prick because Prick said very aggressively that they were standing too close to him and to not touch him. By the way, this other shopper was wearing a mask and gloves and had a basket full of essential looking items.

Now before anyone here feels the need to defend Prick as if he was someone who was just observing the social distancing rules, I would like to add that he was a hypocrite himself. For you see, Prick wasn't wearing a mask or gloves. And he himself only had one item. If it had been an 'essential item' I could understand him needing to go out just to get that one item. But it was an item that didn't justify him going and risking spreading this virus to other shoppers for.

So to summarise - no mask, no gloves, one none essential item and a shitty, arrogant, selfish hypocrite attitude.

Prick perfectly represented the ''I'm alright Jack" mentality.

That's what I like to hear.

When the BBC announced a few months back that due to budget constraints they were axing the sensationalist, blatantly biased "news" programme "The Victoria Derbyshire show", it smelled like.... victory!

For a (topical) note of balance, my wife's uncle has behaved very much like Prick recently - and quite possibly worse. Whilst he looks and behaves like a fairly normal prick, he is actually struggling with some pretty hefty mental illnesses, made more challenging by the disruption to his (usually carefully managed) routine and anxiety caused by this situation. He has no other family and we wait daily for a call summoning us to deal with him having a crisis. So far, he's just been behaving like a prick, so we'll take that.

As a care worker I deal with mental issues. Everyone has a story & you never quite know what to expect at times. Certainly not taking sides or judging anyone, but there are times & there are times.

I cancelled my TV license because i dont watch or use the bbc i Player and will not be forced to pay for something i dont use .Maybe "The Victoria Derbyshire show" is sh£t thats why it was cancelled .

Peeps - the Beeb may not be perfect but what do you want - a faceless automaton delivering the facts in a purely objective fashion?

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/bbc/

Nothing what we don't know already - centre left bias, does use emotive language but never failed a fact check and the latter - with the prevalence of fake news and online reporting with dubious integrity - is a major tick in the box for me.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017

Interesting how UK media is viewed generally in the US with the BBC, The Guardian, Reuters and The Economist making the top 10 of most trusted sources. Trust me - we could do much worse!

Everyone stay safe!

Interested to see what everyone on here thinks about...

Discarded gloves on the ground.

Surely a person wearing gloves in order to touch possibly contaminated surfaces does so with one of two beliefs:

A) that the coronavirus will attach itself to the surface of the gloves

or

B) that the coronavirus will not be able to attach itself to the surface of the gloves at all.

If they believe A then they should know that the surface of the gloves has now become a contaminated surface and so both gloves should be disposed of properly so others don't come into contact with them.

If they believe B then why are they throwing away a pair of perfectly fine, resusable gloves? Why not just use those fuckers to wash the dishes as well? Forget the Marigolds! Just use these magic, permanently sterile, indestructible gloves! Or better still if one day they get haemorrhoids why not use these gloves to apply some ointment, the asshole breath smelling sons of bitches.

Your thoughts?

Until we invent a laser that orbits the earth and zaps the f*ckwits to a fine powder that blows away in the wind as if they never existed- we’ve got to live with them

Probably coundn't grip their chicken from KFC with them on.

WOW is KFC open?

Passed my local one yesterday and it was open, with a big queue of customers outside. It was closed last week so possibly just re-opened yesterday.

Not as big as the queue as there was at McDonalds on its last opening day a few months back, that was just crazy, with a line of cars around the whole carpark and right down the road outside.

It’s when they block the main roads and junctions sat in their cars that grips me

So... any of our north of the border compatriots able to clarify Monica's statement at Holyrood today? I've seen three or four reports of her speech, which depending how it is read means either I *can* visit my mother - who lives on her own on Skye - on Friday, or I can't.

This statement:

appears to have been taken verbatim from her speech, and different reports put the commas in different places, replace them with semicolons, or omit them altogether. It all hangs on whether 'those living alone' is in itself sufficient to make an exception, or whether the 'who form extended households' is inclusive.

I am unable to find anything written from Holyrood yet.

Neil

I read this as it's ok to visit a single elderly relative. "Split" families are also allowed some flexibility with kids going from one household to t'other, and distances are not yet an issue as they were previously.

Why complicate things? Don't forget you could always check/test your eyesight Neil at any location or take your mother grouse shooting

I think we can be an extended household. Can't get much more extended than Berlin...

Things are improving here in Australia with some State borders re-opening and more intrastate travel being allowed.

I live in Queensland which is one of the least affected States with still a strong border control.

My wife and I just returned yesterday from a 2 week 4007 km bus tour through the central west and savannah regions of our state. Flew hove with Qantas from Cairns on a very full 737.

The country regions were vey busy as it is school holidays and most caravan parks etc were fully booked. So much to see here and many families were surprised as to what we have in "our backyard".

We have been very lucky here in Queensland with a low infection rate and corresponding deaths.

Good to hear.

In your opinion Possum, what factors have contributed to this state of affairs?

In Tasmania, the State premier locked down access back in March, anyone coming in must spend 2 weeks in hotel quarantine. We had an outbreak in the north of the state a few months ago, attributed to passengers from a cruise ship flying in from Sydney. During that time travel was limited, working from home was encouraged etc. We now haven't had any cases for several months, life is basically back to normal, although the tourism industry is in deep shit. Tasmania's isolation has always been a pain in the arse, but with covid its an asset, we don't want any tourists, just send cash.

We gather over here that NZ has also been immensely successful dealing with it thanks to firm controls established at the outset. Their lady PM has done her street cred no amount of good by being at the helm it seems.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54449573

What is Sturgeon playing at? Where is the evidence that any of this works or is actually warranted?

https://youtu.be/EKFe0-iL1kw this chap provides some though provoking data comparisons.