Engine configurations

I've always been a little dubious about odd numbers of cylinders, Coop apart of course although even then I went for the 16vt first time around. 2 cylinders seems okay if a bit puny, I think Diahatsu made a 3 cylinder, which sounds odd to me although I had 3 cylinder bikes without problem, 4 is fine, 5 well Coop and Volvos made some good ones but VW make a V5 which sounds weird, 6 straight or V fine, 7? nope, 8 great, 9 no, 10 ok but as it's 2 lots of 5?, 11 no, 12 fine, 13 no way.
I believe RR made a 16, which I think features in a Johnny English film and the Merlin was 28 I think.
I guess my unease is about balance if I were trying to pin it down.

What about a six cylinder diesel with a two cylinder petrol starter motor?

A tractor, ripe for modding

One of my fav things (how sad am I?)

A large part of my decision to get a Coupe 20v was that it had more than 4 cylinders. I just wanted something other than the usual 4 cyl car.

I had considered:

- Mazda 323 F (V6)
- Triumph GT6 (Straight 6)
- Corrado VR6 (not strictly a V6, as the engine has a single head, but the cylinders are in a narrow angle V within the same head.
- Rover P6 3500 V8. offered to me by uncle, but was too long for my garage and was rustier than the Titanic.

I like triple engines, and I fancy a Triumph or a Yamaha MT09 / Tracer next which are both triples. As I understand it, the triple layout is quite well balanced, possibly smoother than a straight 4.

Due to emissions regs etc, there are loads of 3 cylinder cars on the market now (most with turbo's to make up the power deficit). Most notable is probably the new Fiesta ST, which makes similar power to the old 1.6 4 cylinder turbo, but is a 3 cylinder 1.5 turbo. VAG make 3 cylinder in their smaller cars e.g. Seat Ibiza, Skoda Fabia and Polo.

I think Fiat are the only manufacturer to make a car with a twin (correct me if I'm wrong) - in the Twin-air. They do sound like motorbikes (at least motorbikes with 2 cylinders)

It's all about the aural pleasure for me. I like the sound of engines, and the 5 cylinder burble is unique, in that it is kind of offbeat, yet sounds so good. As you say, Audi, Volvo make them - the famous Audi Quattro for example and VW 5 cylinder diesels, plus Fiat's own JTD 2.4 diesel, which I believe is based on the petrol 5 cyl and sounds pretty good for a diesel. VW also did V5 engines, with a similar layout to the VR6. BMW has the famous straight 6 in various forms.

Bugatti's W16 engine.... absolutely awesome, with 4 turbos.
Lambo / Audi V10 - like 2 straight 5's on steroids. (Or Joe FCSS's Tourareg with the Boeing 747 towing V10 TDI).

The Merlin was a V12, just very large at 27 litres. Generally, I find V12s a bit too quiet and smooth, because that's what they're meant to be in luxury cars. I think the Aston V8 sounds better than the V12, but personal preference.

Love V6s too. I really really MUST have an Alfa V6 at some point.

V8's great - American muscle car sound depending on firing order. The Ferrari Dino 308 had a V8 that sounded (to me) like a straight 4 cylinder. A bit disappointing. I'd still like one though.

Flat 4 - Scooby or Alfa Sud / Sprint. The Scooby has a burble like the 5 cylinder due to the different lengths of the exhaust headers (I think).

2 Stroke (Saab rally cars)

Then we come to firing orders:

Take the Yamaha R1 - flatplane engine. It's an inline 4, but sounds like a V4.... check it out on Youtube.

I had a Honda VFR800 with the famous V4. Absolutely loved the sound, like a NASCAR V8 after 7,000 rpm and the VTEC kicked in.

Then you have rotaries, radials...

Then there is the whole subject of locomotive engines. The Napier Deltic being my fav..

Anyway, beer is making me ramble, so I'll stop now.

I’ve had:
V-Twin - BSA FW32 car
3-cyl - smart Roadster Coupe
Flat 4 - Alfa Suds, 33s, 2.5 Outback, VW, Impreza
Straight 4 - Alfa Giulia, and lots of others
Straight 5 - Coupe Fiat, Alfa 156 JTD
Straight 6 - Merc E320cdi
V6 - Merc E320cdi, Alfa 164, Merc SL350

What I want to know is, is there a better sounding V6 than this?

Turn your speakers up for these videos...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vcVzvglry_M
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad1XphQUj1Q

Don't forget the rotary. Everyone likes a nice Wankel.

I really enjoyed owning an RX8, meters/gallon were a little hard to live with though

You can hear those cars cuming

Omg that was terrible Jim................

So Joe, was having a Wankel a hands-on experience for you?

Hey Joe they do jerk as well

I think the Mazda might but the NSU (Not So as U'd notice.

Thanks for putting me right on the Merlin I knew 20 something was involved but CC not cylinders! Now don't get me started on CCs, in the old days you knew where you were, 125, 250, 500, 750, 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500. 3000 etc, generally the bigger the engine the more power. Nowadays you get small engines producing more HP than big ones and odd sounding capacities; 305, 380, 550, 600, 800, 1150, 1400. I know some have come about as result of legislation but how often has the actual cc corresponded to what the maker calls it, 998 aside.

I find this website simple, yet very entertaining and informative

http://www.animatedengines.com/

@Gripped - you forgot the square four, as used by Ariel (and nicknamed the "Squariel")

Ah of course Nigel. As in the Suzuki Rg500 Square 4.

Motorbikes are a good platform to try different engines. Moto GP had 5 cylinder bikes recently.

Nice to have a thread which prompts some good discussion

Ps regarding the Merlin, there's a guy on YouTube who made a motorbike engine from a Merlin by chopping the end of the engine off. So it was a 4.5 litre V twin!!

Didn't Barry Sheene ride the 500 Suzuki before they made a road one? I had the 2cyl 2 stroke back in the day, I also had the BMW RS which often became a 'flat single' when the rain got in the ignition coil, got quite lively when it started firing again just as you were going into a corner on full revs!

I used to get the same with a Kawasaki triple - middle pot used to catch all the spray from the front wheel and eventually killed the spark, which occasionally cut back in at inopportune moments... Being a two-stroke, it also use to chuck unburned fuel and lube oil out of the exhaust when it was running on two pots - not good for traction.

@Gripped (again...) - don't forget the following oddities:-

Honda two stroke V3 (two pots pointing forward, one pot vertical)
Brough 'H' four - like a boxer, but the pistons on each side always travelled in the same direction (unlike the boxer)
Moto Guzzi transverse(!) V8

and not forgetting the way-before-its-time Honda 750 NR - V4 with 8 valves per cyclinder and oval pistons

The Kamikazi Triple! Deadly in so many ways; no engine breaking, poor brakes and none too good handling! (To name but 3)

I loved the NR. Incredible machine. Still looks good now. A real piece of Jap exotica.

Developing the Honda 3 cylinder layout idea... The VFR1200 is a V4 but has the 2 front pistons positioned wide with the 2 rear sat side by side so it's narrower where the rider sits. Somehow they managed to remove the lovey V4 sound and replace it with a fart in a tin can. Still fancy one though.... 170bhp bike.... But titchy fuel tank.

I've just thought of another. The "big bang parallel" twin in the BMW F800 series where both pistons go up and down together with a balance shaft going in opposite direction. Basically like a big single.

Oh, and the firing intervals of parallel twins theses days tending towards 270 degree to mimic the V twin but cheaper and more compact design of the parallel.

Currently bike less after last year, had a Kwak 650 twin with a 180 degree interval, great for torque but it did sound a bit like a lawn mower at idle. Chug chug chug.

I like the move to 3 cylinder cars as the sound rorty.

Let the engine nerdery continue!

I'm bike-less too - haven't had one for a few years after I realised that a big part of the enjoyment of riding in my younger years was the company I kept. Riding on your own is nowhere near as much fun

My last bike was a Buell X1 Lightning - 1.2 litres of thumping v-twin. 100bhp and 100lb-ft made for an entertaining ride. Ridiculous vibrations at idle, but completely smooth as soon as some revs were on. Handling was utterly sublime and could often embarass some supposed sports bikes.

Had a RG500 Suzuki back in 2006with Nikkon pipes when they were affordable . Remember when they came out in 1985 and i was a fan of Barry Sheene . The square four was nearly identical to the RGB 500 at the time in grand prix . Also had 4 RG400
Bought this Honda MVX250 which is a V3 in 2005 . Two piston facing forward and the back piston upright . It was the opposite to the GP NS500 which had two cylinders at the back and one forward facing cylinder I miss this bike more than the RG500 . To counter balance the vibration from two pistosn against one the rear piston is the same weight as the two forward ones . It worked
https://ibb.co/qyQ4Hpx

https://i.ibb.co/xYxpSbj/DSCF0001.jpg

Hey Respace, what have you got against seven cylinder engines? Or nines? One of each here...

Neil

You will be showing us photos of rotary engines next Barnacle, like this one:

Gnome Monosoupape as used by WW1 fighter aircraft.

Not convinced,nine and seven are just plain odd, literally and metaphorically, weird, how would you feel about 13? Nothing against rotary, theory is good, practice somewhat less so. If it could be made to work they'd be on to something.

I owned an RG500 back in 1991, Stan Stephens stage 2, coming from a GPZ 750 turbo it was mental and I've never riden anything like it since, a pillion passenger was impossible.

"Stan the man" in Kent . I would have loved to have a go on one of his stage 2 tuned RG500s When i had mine even back in 2006 20 years after they came out i was impressed with the power of the bike and i had a ZZR1100 at the time also . Mine was dynoed at 76.7bhp at the wheel standard except for the nikkon expansions So your're stage 2 must have been around 95bhpish at the wheel which is nearly 200bhp per litre ? The rear seat was ridiculous . One bike i always wanted was the GPZ750 turbo even if i had a choice between that and a GPZ900R .GPZ750 TURBO was the best effort from the big four japanese motor cycle makers at the time Aircooled but fuel injection and turbo charged Promo video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DSy2c1ULik

Nine and seven are just surprising; no odder than finding a five under a bonnet... I think an inline wouldn't be made simply because the benefits wouldn't be worth the cost. But I can see a fairly compact V7 being possible, or a three-bank triple for a 9.

I never had mine anywhere near a dyno but another mate had a standard RG at the time and mine always had the lead on him, most of the time with the front wheel in the air One of my biggest regrets was selling the 750 turbo, it was super quick for its day and so easy to ride but they were never popular back then, factory turbo bikes never developed any further then 2x models from memory, the Kawasaki and a dodgy Honda CX 650 model which used to boost spike in interesting places, big 4x's went on to become the street racing Exup's and Fireblades, high rpm screamers to what we have today, modern stuff now is super quick so I've stuck with owning a couple of classics which are fast enough for me.

No all the big four had turbo models . Suzuki had the XN85 and Yamaha had the XJ650 turbo and i nearly bought one last year . I remember seeing my first Honda CX500 Turbo back in 1982 at mallory park at the trans atlantic races . I was young then and always remember standing on the start finish straight behind the wire fence and Sheene pasing and the smell of two stroke oil . The turbo era in motor bikes was a short lived effort .However today manufactures in the future are down seizing engines and putting turbos on bikes .Kawasaki KR250 was a tandem twin two stroke https://www.cycleworld.com/yamaha-developing-turbocharged-twin/

I am bikeless althought my ZX6R is in my garage the frame is bent . 100 meters from my house 4 weeks ago last Friday a guy driving a Zafira ran a red light and i hit him . In lockdown and to have a RTA on a motorbike how's that for bad luck ??? Broken right arm and operation to plate it . I will be off work for at least 3 months . First accident in 10 years . My soliciter emailed me the CCTV of the accident from Tescos CCTV but i cant watch it .

Have you still got your bikes Joe? Interested to hear about them.

Just before lockdown, I tested the new British/Indian Royal Enfield interceptor 650 parallel twin. Really nice looking bikes and seem to have really improved on quality. Really nice to ride, fairly quick despite only 47bhp, quite torquey and excellent handling. Even has ABS. Engine is brand new and sounds great. A fantastic package for only £5k new. The stablemate GT looks even better but is less comfy.

Blimey I wouldn't be able to watch it either, we don't bounce the way we used to so hope you healing ok, sad about your bike but it'll be a nice project for you when you're back on your feet.
I'll dig out some pics of my old RG when I find them, Kevin Schwantz Pepsi rep including the Eagle helmet which i still have somewhere, I'd have no chance of fitting in the leathers now

A mate has a new Enfield, uses it as his daily during the summer and says it's a good workhorse.

My classics are a 1991 Exup 1000 in dark grey, a recent purchase from a guy who'd owned it 22 years, and a 2000 full power Gen 1 Carbon Vmax, that thing is silly fast

Yeah I'm not sure I'm ready for the Enfield just yet, as I can't really justify a bike collection at the moment.

Like your classics. Both Yamaha too. My first bike was a mk 1 Fazer 600 and a Thundercat 600. That was pretty quick with its ram Air.

Always fancied a VMax. V4 muscle. What's the handling like?

It's 5 litres, I saw this at a bike rally in Canberra about 30 years ago, the sounds was intense, it went through you. He put a supercharger and nitrous on it after I'd seen it.

https://www.abc.net.au/local/photos/2015/08/19/4296075.htm

My 1st bike was a Suzuki T500 2 stroke twin, I also had a kawasaki 400 triple, the 70's 2 strokes were mental. I've had a couple of BMW R100RS, beautiful old flat twin. The Laverda 1200 Jota triple with a 180 degree crank, the sound was amazing. Porshe air cooled flat 12s. The Honda and Kawasaki 6 cylinder bikes, Bennelli did a 6 cylinder years before as well. And how come you poms have forgotten the old Commer double knocker? I love big radial aircraft engines, my favourite is the 18 cylinder 3000hp sleeve valve Bristol Centaurus. I was in Krakow 2 years ago, they've got an aviation museum with all sorts of crazy soviet cold war era stuff, some really weird engine configurations, worth a look if you're into that sort of stuff.

A standard Vmax handling is point and prey

............ a few tweaks and with the use of your body weight you can get around corners quite confidently but its no sports bike by any terms, it's heavy and at slow speeds can be a mule but when that vboost kicks in none of that matters as it will happily leave big sports bikes behind on the striaght, 20 years old and still raises as smile every time I ride it.

The Polish Aviation museum is on my list to visit when I finally get a chance to visit Krakow.

Sounds great, loved the suicide doors (RX8) but fairly unremarkable performance, and a complete nightmare to maintain (and economy was worse than my tuned GTR...).....but everyone need to own a rotary even if its to establish what ‘bad’ looks like

DS

PS - Rotary count as 2 cylinders, and one revolution of the engine involves two combustion cycles!