Degrees of camber

Is it going to make much difference if I get the camber bolts set at 1 degree or 1.1 or 1.2???
What I mean is can I just play it safe, and have better wear on my tyres with 1 degree and still feel the benefits of it?
Its just a road car, no track and its on billies and eibachs and 18" alloys.

And just to clarify I ask for x.x degree NEGATIVE camber?

Thanks

It's not very simple. I've been a witness to a setup of a newly developed track car that they didn't have time to set up before the first tests. The reason I was a witness was because I had a good camera with me.

They asked me to take frontal pictures of the car while cornering on the track in the highest G corner, from this they measured the angle of roll and they first set up the car using this angle + an extra 0.5 degrees of negative camber. They then would step back 0.2 degrees a time by just doing a couple of rounds to take a good average max grip for that track. They used a G meter for that and some subjectivity.

When I asked them about camber on road cars they said generally the factory setup is to set up camber at 0 degrees, then do some measurements on a 'typical drive', then set up camber by calculating the necessary degrees for an even wear on the tyres. On sportier cars they set up camber a bit higher (negative) based on a more spirited drive.

They also said max grip at any time on a typical performance road tyre is at about 0.5 degrees higher than the 90-degree angle between tyre and road, depending on how much the tyre deforms.

I kind of remembered their words because I was surprised to see a race car with like 6 degrees negative camber on a very stiff suspension and really wondered why. Maybe to balance the car out a bit in terms of grip, don't know. Any answers on a yellow postcard.

To directly answer your question: they will reset your camber after lowering the car to compensate for the drop and thus geometry change in rest. I think it's safe to say 0.2 degrees more negative would do no harm, but I'd just have them set it up normally. The lowered suspension will keep your camber more stable through corners, so becoming less positive. So should already see an improvement.

yep,you want negative camber.

If i were you i would not run more than 1 degree as it gives you less grip in a straight line and can make it tram-line.

i'm running 0.5 degrees because i have increased caster,which makes the camber increase when you turn, the best of both worlds!

Sorry what is caster?
You sound like you have a good set-up. Please dont get too technical though as I will get lost. Dont really want to lose any grip in a straight line, as sometimes my car struggles in that department as it it, when on high boost anyway.

Would it be worth jusy going in the middle somewhere, 0.5 or 0.8 degrees negative camber, is that going to be worth it.
At the minute im wondering weather to even go ahead with this, even though I already have the Eibach camber bolts sitting here right now. ?

http://www.netkarcentral.com/wiki/c...em/107-wheel-alignment-caster-camber-toe

If you look at your front wheels side on, caster is the angle of your suspension from the topmount to the hub!

To increase the (positive) caster you move the topmount end of the suspension towards the windscreen,this basicly changes the arc the wheel moves in and gives you more camber when the wheels turn.

you can only do this with different topmounts, its easier on coilovers.
The gaz kit comes with a increased caster top mount, its not impossible on std style suspension but you would have to get some one to re-drill the turret holes etc, so its easier to buy coilovers.

camber does nothing for you in a straight line, its only round corners you will benefit,as kayjey said it really needs to be worked out.
Fiat allow a tollerence up to 1 degree negative as std,like anything its a balance between straight line grip, cornering and tyre wear.

Because your car is lowerd you will have a tiny bit more camber anyway,you have probably got 0.5 anyway,you could always try 1 degree ,if you think you have lost straight line grip or your tyres are wearing to much, take it back a few minutes.
lots of people run 1 degree with no complaints.

Just quickly, the camber bolts, do they fit on the shocks, bottom part?

ONLY put them in the TOP hole of the shock absorbers.

Thanks for the link Kayjey, very good.

Kayjey I have -4.5 deg and -3.5 on my race car, cornering forces are far higher with the type of tyre used, creating high roll forces, even with stiff suspension the wheel is unlikely to have even contact with the ground.

-0.5 road car is very little and the tyre will wear very quickly on the outer edge if driven on a track, but road cornering forces are much much lower unless you drive like a mad man every where. Also most driving will be in straight lines especially on the motorway, here any negative camber will cause the inside edge of the tyre to wear.

caster increases camber in roll, it also causes the car the corner which makes the steering feel heavier, but is a useful change but needs modifaction the std car does not have from the factory.

I use -1.5deg camber front (Eibach/Bilstein setup), works well for both track and road I think.

am I right in saying that standard, a 20vt has -0.5 but under load (cornering this can increase upto -1 )
Am sure most set camber on road cars between -1 and -1.2 with a few running even more negative camber such as Per.

Under load (cornering) you will get less negative camber. Which is the purpose: as big as possible contact patch when cornering.

Found a good example of modifying caster:

No you get more if the strut compresses, but the body roll moves the top end of the strut lateral to the non roll situation, this then brings the tyre surface more parallel to the road surface (if starting with negative camber, or less contact if the wheel axis leans so much as to go into effective positive camber). Any increase in negative camber is rapidly over come with the effect of roll especially on a mcPherson strut. Camber recovery is better in a dual wish bone.

- yeah that's what I meant: the tyre will get more 'upright' in relation to the road, but of course the *actual* negative camber looking at the car is increased. I was too quick posting that.

Thanks for the correction sediciRich.

What do you think would be the camber with Bilstein/Eibach and Eibach camber bolts set to max negative -1.5%? Would that be way too much for road use and would wear inner edge of the tyres swiftly? Mind you the car is 50/50 road & track use.

I have those settings I cannot say my tires wear that uneven. Yes if I look at my old Continentals now they do have more wear on the inner edge, but this is when the rest of the thread is on the limit aswell.
The upside is far greater, I enjoy every roundabout entry - not to mention the trackdays.

Cheers Per, I will stick with 1.5% of negative camber. Now, off for wheel alignment

What figures are we all using here? Remember camber is set up in degrees and minutes so 1.5 is quite a lot if its 1 degree and 50 minutes, that's almost 2 degrees which is quite a lot on a road car.

Or did you mean 1 and a half degrees which would be 1.3 (one degree thirty minutes) which is perfect for a road car.

There's some good info On this page