wanting to improve overall handling

so my ol' girl is rolling up to 80k miles and theres scope for suspension improvement in the not too distant future after i get cambelt done and sort my alfa.

so heres my problem, the coop is too 'soft' in the suspension department. Motorway cruising is 'fine' and faster A roads are 'okay'. Switching direction on roundabouts is scary and trying to drive it in a fashion that is suitable for roads and not a race tracks destroys confidence. What im finding strange is that if i drive it in a spirited manor on b-roads it seems to firm up and not roll, as much, like a P&O Ferry. but i think this may just be placebo because im driving it in a spirited way.

regardless, i think there is MASSIVE room for improvement.

now for the stipulations:-

• I'm not interested in coilovers and big suspension mods
• I'm not prepared to lower it (it's too low for the roads here as it is, i dont need to help it)
• I want to keep it as close to 'Standard' as possible.

A full set of 'Road' Powerflex bushes are going in as it's still on original factory fitted bushes at the moment, I'm hoping this will sort some of its wavering when midcorner and help with its steering responsiveness and feedback.

Now, I've had a Stilo that was -30mm on Apex Springs and Monroe Reflex shocks, i had the same kinda issues with that (wanted it tighter and less wallow-y in corners and on B-roads) shocks and springs sorted it out no end and i was happy with how it handled. Thing is i know NOTHING about how to achieve it with the coupe. Can i get stiffer normal height springs? do i put normal springs on and get 'faster' shocks? whats the options for strut bracing and will it help with what i am trying to achieve? etc etc.

Any help and suggestions, as always, are warmly received.

Updated anti roll bar will help. Ultra racing seems to be a good cheaper option compared to the Eiback which is silly money!!! Monroe shocks have been recommended to freshen up tired suspension so maybe give them a go.

When was you suspension last refreshed?

Just picked up my car today from JBT with new springs, shocks, etc etc and what a difference! I thought about what I really wanted and decided to go for new but standard set up. Suddenly the car feels planted at high speeds and firmer in the corners and the silly bounce has gone. I don't expect the car to be as good as my wife's mark 5 Golf but the cars are 20 years apart in design.

I've also had fitted a sparco strut brace though I'm not sure whether it will really make a difference. The above (plus new rubber all round) makes for a very nice handling car.

Joe at Fcss fitted a new standard front anti roll bar and bushes to my na after I broke the old one changing the drop links. That made a big improvement at the front end.

It also made me aware of a squirming from the cars back end. I think new rear subframe mountings would have cured that so replace them at the same time as your other upgrades.

In fact, do a small project and road-test after each upgrade to see what makes the most improvement.

Ok thanks guys/girls

Hadnt even considered rear end bushes, will have a look into those!

Suspension is 17/18yrs old along with all the bushings on a shade under 80k miles. There is no signs of it ever being changed (one of the things that attracted me to it 4 years ago) i knew id have to do it around 100k anyways so this is no suprise.

I shall look into ARB and strut brace, by 'updated' do you mean new or thicker/stiffer?

Given your constraints I'd replace all the suspension with new OEM parts, that in itself will be a massive improvement if all the parts are original.

The list is roughly:

Wishbones
Track rod ends
ARB drop links
ARB bushes
Top mounts
Springs
Dampers
Rear trailing arms

When you find rust in your suspension travels, and you will, get it treated as a minimum. The above will set you back ~£600-£700 in parts.

Uprated ARB and strut brace are complimentary to the above, I'd start replacing the original parts before going for upgrades.

Have a read of this suspension thread by Cosmograph where he gives his opinions on a number of spring and damper set ups.

Thanks gunzi... Hoping not to find too much rust. it has been, and continues to be, a very well looked after example. Will make allowances for it though.

Will probably go for TRW for arms and rod ends, Lesföjer springs, Monroe shocks and full poly bushings install may also throw some braided lines on her. Assuming I can't get fiat labeled stuff at the right price.

Trailing arms are mechanical and if there's no play on them, leave them alone.
Subframe bushes are rubber and will deteriorate over the years.

If there's no play in the trailing arms, change the subframe bushes

Huw makes a good point re the bearings and subframe bushes.

Be careful with braided hoses, they have been known to rub and burst as aren't correctly supported to the Coupe.

Here's just one example of HEL failure.

In my opinion stick with the Fiat rubber option. Try alternative autos for these parts.

thanks Huw, plan is to do subframe bushes regardless!

Gunzi,I've seen all the worry about goodridge. May just stay with new rubber then. I'll be honest I was looking at a set of HEL.

They may be better on a non turbo as they were designed to have a flexible hose to the front caliper from the off, unlike the 20VT.

ill take some measurements and actually have a look at how its all routed, been a while since ive been in there poking around thanks szkom

after an afternoon of scouring the internets I've found B6s and Konis are out of my price range at the moment. Monroe reflex aren't available for the coupe . TRW only appear to do 'standard speed' shocks.

any advice on other 'sport' options like the Monroe Reflex range or am i trying too hard when standard shocks will be enough on standard springs?

I recall seeing KYB adjustable available for the NA. Never tried them though.

if i went with KYB i'd probably look at the Excel-G range rather than adjustables.

Adjustables, for me, are put firmly in the 'mods' section of my mind, i dont want or need blistering performance from my setup, its my daily commute so also dont need it harsh/super sporty, hence why i'm looking at close to OEM replacements with regards to ride comfort and also affordability.

I'm in the same camp as Gunzi, agreeing that a refresh of suspension will do what i need rather than a revamp with big cost Bilsteins etc that i simply cant justify.

New shockers will make the biggest difference - they will be knackered after that mileage. And pretty much the same goes for the bushes. I like the Bilstein B6s but if you can't afford them talk to JBT (John at Midlands Car Servicing) about cheaper alternatives. He's not far from you and gives good advice.

for road use:
cheap combinations
Rear springs from marea estate + fiat punto 1 absorbers koni
powerflex bushes front, and rear frame solid bushes
Shocks
front inserts koni adjustable
you cut top of your absorber and put new insert in and fix it with bolt on the bottom


koni shocks are shorter then more preload will be added to front shocks,

rear marea estate springs are much harder then original ones
punto shocks are shortet than coupe
other than that all is too expensive to modify.



I have a set of new koni inserts front and rear 30% harder absorbers to sell and front antiroll bar eibach with powerflex mounts

thanks wink, i never think to ask garages about their thoughts because they're very busy men and dont need me and my type pestering them and taking time out of their day for no money

Dorian, as previously stated, Konis are out of my price range, as are Bilsteins... I didn't realise they did 'inserts' though. that's kind of a cool concept! I am looking towards more of a budget setup rather than focused modification because I neither need nor want blistering performance. nevertheless thanks for your suggestions!

I understand that the biggest enemy to anti roll bars is worn bushes. The bar relies on a tight connection because the initial resistance to roll is critical to the roll bar's performance. I'm thinking of just sorting the bushes and droplinks for now and see how i get on, before going balls to the wall and getting £300 quids worth of ARB

You could try poly bushing the front roll bar to remove slop and provide a bit of longevity?

Just had the front replaced bar new shocks and springs with new arms, droplinks, track rods etc the car feels much better, more planted and less 'loose' and they were only done circa 30K miles ago, I guess that is about right mileage wise. At 80k miles if your car is still on originals they must be shot; the car is going to come alive for you! I can vouch for Monroe shocks.

szkom... read my OP... Powerflex is firmly in the pipeline

Submariner: which Monroe units did you use? just the 'standard' units? i havent found their Reflex range listed for the 20v. i was impressed with the Reflex units on the Stilo so would definately consider again!

Think they were 'just' OE spec from Alternative Autos. Good though.

Yes, must read more carefully

Look out for a strut brace. It does wonders for the wobbly structure at the front. If you only make one customization, it should be this. Makes the car feel light years newer because all that shuddering over bumps reduces dramatically. Should let the suspension do its job better too.

Mine has relatively new front springs (because one broke), track rods, track rod ends and ARB drop links. The rest is 19 year old, 52 thousand miles, original and it still surprises me how "new" is feels and how well it drives. Searching out the parts that have worn and replacing them for standard should result in a perfectly respectable and safe drive. Good modern tyres are also helpful for good ride and grip.

Hey Neil,

That sounds like one of the most sensible things I have ever read on here...

I had both front shocks replaced for standard on the last MOT and the car was totally transformed.
I realised how wallowy it had been before and it now felt like it was 'standing' rather than 'kneeling' on the road. I noticed it immediately through the steering.

Well mine's up for its bi-annual TÜV test on Monday so we will soon find out if I'm fooling myself. Subjectively, it does not feel ancient even compared to my 14k miles and 4 year old XKR. Simpler and more basic, yes, and a bit slower. It has some rattles too but it steers, rides and brakes about how it should. It is is still a nice and engaging car to drive.

thanks for the suggestions guys its nice to hear things that arent going to cost the earth and the results they bring!

I would swap out the stuff that is cheap and easy, and is prone to wearing out: ABR drop links and TREs and see how it feels. These made quite a difference on mine. Tightened everything up.

The Coupe was not naturally wallowy when new so standard components should actually be fine. I seem to see that most people here say that a suspension refresh at around 80k is not unreasonable as the likes of shocks, front wishbones and rear arm bearings come to the end of their life. So those are the next things to check.