Coilovers - The Final Solution ?

On my continuing quest to try every single suspension system for the coupe and pay for my bank managers villa in the Bahamas I've just had a phone call from Kev at Apex Performance about a coilover kit for the coupe.

Now before I get started about the proposed coilover kit I'd want to give you the low down on the major problems with coilovers.
On a normal coilover strut as you adjust the height of the car on the spring seat you are doing two things.

1. Your adjusting the pre-load on the spring.
2. Your altering the amount of travel the damper has available.

I'm sure all owners with coilovers will admit, lower the height and the car gets a pain to drive as bounces off the bumpstops or becomes very crashy because its actually driving on the bumpstops.

Look at a Subaru or Performance Nissan's coilover strut and you'll see a difference, the hub mounting can be moved up and down the damper body on a screw thread in a similar way that the spring seat can be moved up and down to adjust the ride height. What this enables is the ride height to be adjusted without altering the travel or pre-load on the suspension, it is the ultimate solution really for the coupe as it suffers very badly from a lack of travel when its lowered.

What Apex are planning is:

A fully adjustable front coilover (adjustable in height and damping).
A front camber adjustable alloy top mount.
The rear suspension is yet to be confirmed, I will send photo's off to Apex so they can decide on the best solution although its quite limited with our separate spring and damper trailing arm setup.

Apex Coilover

Some info from the gtir forum on a kit being developed for them.

I'm going to send some bits and photos off to Apex when I get them sorted.

Suspension kit No 6 here we come

I'd be interested Jimbo.

Ross

The D2 coilover kit already does all this...

Ok Ross, it will be a while yet though, probably 3 months after giving them some standard stuff to work off.


Pretender,

Had a look at the D2 stuff, they don't list a coupe but the design is the same for height adjustment at the hub.

D2 = K-Sport

Is this quest based on some form of OCD or are you unsatisfied with the Leda kit you have?

Purely OCD Matt, the Leda's are good but if I can find something that works better and especially works well when the car is low (the Leda's run out of travel too) then what the hell.

D2 = K-Sport = Apex

Don't take this the wrong way, but Jimbo you're a nutter.

First dibs on your Leda's though.

You now have my full attention!

Jimbo, you are truly nuts....

I gave up messing about with my hybrid arrangement, thing you have to remember, that it will always be a tall order to keep some suspension travel, as the design of the wheel arches, especially the front of the coop is pathetic, even on a standard one, at full lock, the wheel almost hits the liner, then lowering it another 40mm, does it no favours, plus the fact we us an old macpherson setup makes things even worse = major camber probs

Apex gear looks ok, however we will always struggle to have that OE ride quality as soon as you lower it

i.m interested to see what they come up with, as My LEDA gear all needs a recon & replate

Yep, me too.

i'd be interested if it out performs my current Koni/Leda setup

As been said before the only differenses between D2, ksport, apex, megan etc is the colour and price. They are all made in the same factory and they are all listed for the coupe. Altough not every reteller have them in their lists. I woud go for the cheapest one. They can all make them with any springrate you want if the seller isn't to lazy and it shouldn't cost anything extra. At least it doesn't in Sweden.

My Koni's are dead (well being on the car for 120K km)
Would any of these D2-Ksport-Apex work on the 16vt? Are the front suspension mounts/macphersons different to the 20vt?

V.

Yes they list the coupe but they don't have a kit made up yet, this was the phone conversation I had today, a kit will be developed, thoroughly tested with a choice of comfy road, fast road and race springs.

as you can imagine very interested........even tho` I just bought a brand new set of bilstiens ..............TODAY !!

D2 kit fitted to my coop... they do camber adjustment and i think the way they're built is what you're looking for..

http://www.softss.com/pretender/coupele/pecas/27.jpg

http://www.softss.com/pretender/coupele/pecas/28.jpg

Pic from the site

http://www.softss.com/pretender/coupele/pecas/coiloverpicture.jpg

Jimbo - have you ever considered externally controlled damping?

Tein do a kit that allows electronic control of the damping adjustment via a console in the car

It would be great for keeping the ride supple for everyday use, but then able to flick a switch or turn a dial and firm it up for a bit of B-road fun

The apex kit is very popoular on the sxoc. Apex provide 4 different spring rates from comfort to very rigid for drifting. They are much cheaper than the equivalent teins etc, but seem to work as well going on the reviews.

I'm very interested in this development.

Tein EDC is very good, its just motors mounted on the top of the strut so it could be easy to replicate.

Ok, just back from sunny Basra. I'll get the photo's of the rear sorted later today and call Carl for some standard dampers and springs.

Nigel,
In car adjustment sounds nice but probably not workable on the coupe, our separate damper/spring rear with the damper mounted in the rear subframe makes it almost impossible, all those Jap cars that run in car adjustment have a rear coilover that mounts into the chassis of the car

Pretender,
Its hard to make out from your pictures but where is the damping adjustment on yours ?
They look very nice though

Vas,
If the bolt spacing for the hub is the same on the 16vt as it is on the 20vt then they will fit.

Oh no not again Jimbo. Actually i still haven't heard back from Leda regarding my rears.

Front's with the top mount are definately the way to go.

Hey Marco,

Since Leda reformed their customer service has unfortunately gone to pot, I've been trying for nearly a year to get mine cut slightly shorter but no joy with them.

If your interested Marco this kit should be available in 3 styles, comfy road, fast road and race, the latter you'd be interested in I'm sure and I'm also quite sure you'd be handy to help them develop a track spring rate.

An extract from Apex's web site has a write up on the comfy road coilover kit.

S13 Apex Gen2 5/4 Comfy coilover kit £595.00


We have moved onto the latest generation Apex coilovers and have now released the Gen2 units. These run larger diameter damper bodies in comparison to the Gen1s, they have a greater range of damping adjustment, they run rubber rear top mounts for quieter operation, the run revised low speed damping to give greater low speed comfort and they have a bearing mounted front top spring platform to prevent the spring from binding.

32 way damping adjustable, height adjustable through altering the length of the shock body, spring preload adjustable through the spring platform, front and rear rose jointed alloy mounts and front camber adjustable top mounts.These kits offer absolutely fantastic value for money with all the features of coilover kits costing twice the price.

These Comfy 5/4kg.mm units were designed as an upgrade over the original equipment that will improve the cars handling but without killing the quality of the ride. These will still provide a very significant improvement in body control in comparison to the original units but still retain day to day usability on all but the bumpiest of back roads. Much like the Tein Flex and Nismo S Tune. The downside of the softer spring rates (compared to 8/6 etc) is that the car will reach a sigificant attitude of lean under hard cornering on track which makes uprated anti roll bars a superb partner as the roll bars provide the lean control but the Comfys give the suppleness of ride. You get the best of both worlds.

Fast Road

This kit is for the fast road guys who want to shift the balance more towards performance with a little detriment to ride quality.Reasonable for road use but with that extra edge on track.

Race,are for the more hardcore road driver or for the more track orientated car.They are ideal for general track and drift work but at the detriment of a lot of suppleness on bumpy roads.




Obviously thats the write up on the Nissan so ignore rose jointed rear top mounts, etc but you get the picture.

Maybe that I could organize a group buy with D2- coilovers?!
They look really great and have a lot of wonderful features regarding individual adjustments compared to competitors
Is there any interest???
The target price should be << 600 GBP incl. VAT?

Juergen

Juergen,

This kit is going to be developed for use on UK roads that unfortunately aren't anywhere near as good as European roads

That price is similar to the Apex price but Kev @ Apex said we would get a 20% discount for the initial group buy so this would be a better spec'd kit (for a UK coupe or coupes that live in areas with poor roads) for a better price.

PM replied to mate and yes i'm all for it.

Hi,

Some of you who have posted may remember me, I'm thinking Nigel and Begbie - hello. I've met a few others on the board too.

I used to be events organiser for the SXOC, and did some joint events with you guys which were nice

I now work for Apex Performance, and am keen to sort you guys some of our coilovers as I'm sure you will love them.

I'll be keeping an eye on this thread.

Just to say the development process isnt that fast, but please be assured we are working hard in the background.

These units will be designed for use in the UK, unlike many of the units that do not cope as well with the bumpy UK roads, but will also work very well on track.

I'm well up for this - I think the Osrav / Koni setup I bought from Jimbo a couple of years back is now less relevant to the state of the rest of my car - I need everyday suppleness and comfort with the ability to hoon around on track with a couple of easy adjustments.

I'm particularly interested in the adjustable top mount for camber adjustment.

Any chance these will be ready by summer?

I'll call Kev next week and see where we are, he did say is quite a slow development but lets see.

Any update on this?

Help!

My Osravs have just died - I'm having some secondhand struts fitted, but my need for these coilovers has just accelerated

Any news?

Im in Turkey at the moment Nigel, will chase it up when Im back next week.

D2's listed on ebay ........... HERE!

You guys that have them, what do you think of them? I have had coil overs before but a long time ago and on an Integrale, I'm not a fan of Bilsteins and the few other kits available seem very expensive considering the price of the D2's.

G

That D2 kit doesn't have the adjustable top mounts

Highly tempting though

Jimbo - where are we with the UK Group Buy?

Nigel, I know there has been a bit of progress on the Gaz kits so you might want to chase that one up too. Speak to either sparco or suba.

The adjustable top mounts, should you want them are available.

I'm on the verge here, have we an idea of price for the set this thread is covering yet?

G

Guys, really sorry about how slow this is moving, I'm so busy with work at the moment that I haven't had time to chase it up.

I'm out of the country again on Monday for a month (I only got back at lunch time today !)

I'll pass the details over to Nigel (if thats ok with you Nigel) as he might be in a better position to follow this up.

I'm definitely in a better position to carry on with this than Jimbo, but I am not going to be able to give it much attention for some time. I'm working eleven hours a day for one job, then I start on my second job when I get home.

I'll do it if I have to, but if anyone is desperate for these, a volunteer to take it one would be most welcome.

one word of caution with these fan-dangled top plates Nigel, check that they KEEP the coops original Caster is still the same, as the coop will handle like a pi, irrespective of your CAMBER settings.

I only found this out ages ago, when, yes, I did put the two top mounts on actually back to front, which put the caster all over the shop, certainly confused Elite to no avail!

worth checking before you part with any cash, or else, you'll end up with a worse handling car on turn in

Kev (the guy building the kit) has asked for a complete front strut with spring and top mount so I guess all that will be taken care of Taz.

Just wanted add my name to the list of people waiting for more info.

Jimbo,

Can any of the proposed kits or variants of the kits be tailored into something which will provide superior road quality over a standard coupe?

Also, are the proposed top mounts going to be significantly stronger than the standard ones? They seem to be a weak point IMO.

Cheers

Scott

Is there anyone on here that has the capacity to spend the time to progress this GB?

I'm working stupid hours at the moment and I am certainly not able to pick up where Jimbo left off. Jimbo has even less time than me (at least I'm in the country!)

This suspension is soooo promising, it would be a shame to see it fall down because of a lack of commitment

I'll try.

Nigel can you forward the PM's from Jimbo onto me please?

Cheers

Matty - you have PM

Cheers.

Sorry guys, I've been rather busy of late. Right I need to supply Kev with shocks and springs from the rear, anyone got? I seemed to have lost/chucked out my old set up.

I got rid of my old standard springs and shox as well, but I can probably obtain a knackered set from Motormech if needed, but it would be a PITA to get them to you or Kev

Where is Kev based? If local I could leave my coupé with him for a week or so if that helps?

What an awesome offer.

I'll fire him an email tomorrow.

IIRC Apex and Kev are up near Bradford

In that case, 007 almost certainly won't be able to do it due to geographical location.

Depending when and how long they need a coop for, I may be able to "donate" mine for a couple of days (totally standard suspension setup).

Have you still got me on GPS? The injunction clearly says no spying on me.

PMSL

It's been made clear to both of us that after the last GB we were involved in, it's best for everyone if we're not seen together.

I was drunk, I needed the exhaust. It'll never happen again!

Matty if Kev is in Bradford then that would mean I can't help but I can highly recommend Craig. He showed great commitment to the BF GB.

Guys, I think Kev has access to a coupe if he needs it, its the factory that need the dampers so they can have a good look, take measurements etc.

I'm sure country cruising (Joe) could supply the bits we need, I'll pay for them if needed or go halves with someone.

I'm actually back in the UK for 4 days now so if anything needs doing I can try and get it done in amongst the stress of buying a house and packing.

You know where I am if you need me.

Afternoon Chaps.

I'm holding off buying a set of much needed Billies, hoping that this GB will get off the ground....if there is anything I can do to help, please just let me know...



Cheers,
Ben.

Jimbo,

just reviving this one Are you still saying whilst the renewal of the top mounts for the Bravo ones have made a significant difference, they still are not as good as the LEDA gear ? I am almost at the stage where I need to remove all alloys for a refurb & was going to have mine either refurbed / simply buy a new set ( I suppose i can treat the car after 9 years ! )

cheers,

Taz

Just to put a spanner in the works guys i am nearly finished in the development of the Gaz race set-up (Suba has the road set-up) and i think between us we will have a very good option at a competitive price.

I will be at Snetterton on Oct 12th for the final round of Time Attack where anyone is welcome to have a look over where i am at just now.

Taz, the Leda's are a better quality damper, no doubt about that. Its the method of lowering the ride height thats flawed. I'm ordering another set of longer and slightly softer springs to go on mine.
I've almost got the leda's sorted now, I have just about the right amount of travel and at the ride height I want.

I'll PM you some pictures later to show you how it all goes together.


Marco, do you have any pictures ofyour set up ?

Jimbo - will your old springs from your leda's fit on my FK struts? (Fronts ofcourse)

The Eibach springs are a 2.5" ID where the FK uses a 60mm ID so you'd have to fabricate a larger spring platform for the bottom. I have an adaptor for the top for when I was using the FK top mount bearing so that bit would be ok.

Are you thinking of changing springs ? I've got some spare 100Nmm FK springs if you want to go stiffer than the standard 80Nmm, They are stiff mind you!

If not have a look in here:

http://eibach.com/eibach/img/ers-catalog-2004.pdf

Scroll down until you get to 60mm ID springs and then be confused by the numbers
Page 29-33

Spring rates are listed in Lbs/in and N/mm in Col 'C'

They do a 60-150N/mm progressive tender that might work, its just a shame the FK's arent adjustable damping so you can't control the rebound bouncing.

You have PM

I guess that this GB never happened? Has anyone got any experience with APEX RDX Coilovers? They're are bloody cheap at £480 and got good reviews on other forums. Do they use standard top mount or the Brava one?

Wow, a thread from 2008

These dampers are in production now and a few guys are running them. Have a read of this little lot:
http://www.fiatcoupeclub.org/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1291528&page=1

Yeah, I was searching long and hard, Jimbo I saw the thread you're referring to but it's BC not Apex or is it the same thing?

Any experience with Apex RDX? I know they're inferior as they got no camber or damping adjustment but would like to know if anyone has experienced them.

Kev from Apex, is Apex Performance, which are a distributor of the BC coilovers in the UK.

Did the issue with the rear spring on the BC's get sorted in the end?

I've just ordered a set so I'm hoping so

Yes, longer springs, different spring platform and the rear damper has been changed. I still need to swap my rear dampers over but it's been too cold to do it

How can I tell if mine are the improved ones prior to fitting

Well, I've had mine since beginning of Nov, so if you have ordered now I would expect them to be the new kit, but to tell, if you can't get the spring out when the rear trailing arm is at full droop then it's the new kit

Just received my BC coilovers. The rear spring has the same part No as dlongstaff's so BC clearly haven't solved the problem, that they are fully aware of.
The rear shock absorber appears to tave length adjustment, can't the length be reduced to solve the issue?

The spring platform changed at the rear, I'm not sure the actual spring changed? It will soon become apparent when you fit them, if the spring dislodges on full suspension droop then it's an MOT fail and you've got the wrong kit.

The rear spring changed also