New make of coilovers

I have been in touch with a company that seems to have received pretty good reviews for the kits that they make and asked if they would be willing to make a kit up for the coupe, and the answer seems to be a yes.

There is various levels of coilovers as well :

Street and Circuit Coilover retails for £649
Inverted Damper For Pro Track retails for £849
External Reservoir retails for £1175

I'm currently trying to arrange the finer points on this kit, but it will come with the following:

Pillowball upper mount
Camber adjustable top mounts
Aluminium top plates
30 way adjustable damping
Adjustable spring platform
Height adjustment via bottom mount to retain full damper travel
Bearing mounted upper front spring platform
Dust boot to protect damper seals

What sort of interest would there be in this, as i think it would be a suitable alternative to FK's, KW's and Gaz coilovers

i would have a set of Street and Circuit Coilover for that price!

will they be for the 20vt as well?

Yes, they will be for 16vt and 20vt

May be interested too at that price

I'd be interested in a pair for the rear Alexis, I bought a pair of FK's for the front but the rears weren't included in the sale unfortunately

cool, i will be interested!!

Interested in the Pro Street/circuit set-up... Any idea of delivery dates... Need some a bit better than the bilstein/eibach combo.

Cheers Tim

Could be interested in these. What make are they Begbie?

No idea on delivery dates as of yet. They need a set of front and rear shocks + springs, which will then be sent over to Japan to be made up etc.. which will take about a month or so then it will need to come back and be tested just to make sure everything fits as it should. I have a set of front shocks, springs and top mounts ready to go and Countrycruising is donating some rears to the cause

The make, well Jimbo should know, but i'll let you play detective and see if you can find out

Could be interested also in a couple of months

I might possibly have my arm twisted given that my current set will be coming to the end of their life before long and they could prove tricky to get serviced/rebuilt.

Will they have PU bushes in the rear shocks - if not, why not? I definately think they are needed.

Is it likely that there will be long term support (parts, servicing, rebuilding) in the UK?

Other than that they look like quite nice pieces of kit. Pillowball top mount is ace.

They sound attractive enough. Just wondering about their reliabilty..hence asking about the make.

What is pillowball?? sounds comfy

I don't think they will have PU bushes in the rear, but i'll ask and see what they say, i'll also ask about servicing if there is any problems too, but that won't be till Monday now.

The good thing, is they orginally said they wanted 10 firm commitments for this kit, but have said that it's not needed, hurrah!

My current coilover set came with rubber bushes in the rear shocks which fairly quickly turned to toffee. Could be because I had the damping up fairly stiff but if it can be sorted at the outset then it's a much better deal.

Is it the Apex kit Begbie ?

It looked a very good option, especially with the height adjustment being made at the hub instead of at the spring

It's not the Apex kit, but it's being dealt via Apex. For those who want to have a look at the goods, you want to go to http://www.bc-racing.co.uk

Matt, i asked the guy about the bits you wanted and he has replied with :

Next question then:

What are the damping (although obviously adjustable) and spring rates being based upon?

Damping, not sure on, but spring rates can be chosen to what ever you want. There will be a set spring that comes with the dampers, but if you wanted to go harder or softer, then you can, albeit for a small charge

I'm interested Begbie

These look pretty good, Any idea when?.. I can supply them my car if they want something to play with to get a good set-up.

Cheers Tim

Tim, as i said earlier, it won't be for a couple of months yet. I need to go and get the rear suspension from PeteP (kindly donated by Countrycruising), then collect my front struts and get them sent to Apex in Bradford, who then in turn, will send them to Japan to be pulled apart, new ones made up, then sent back, so we're going to be looking at 6 weeks - 2 month minimum before a trial set have been made

this sounds very intriguing, definitely interested

Ok, let me know how things are progressing... Cheers Tim

So thats what BC are. They sponsor time attack but i haven't heard of anyone using their stuff. I keep getting hats on the WINNERS step of the podium for those who have been there. Looks good but i'll be sticking with my Gaz stuff for now.

No update really, just to say i have the front suspension, top mounts and rear suspension now, so will get this boxed up and sent off this week

Cheers Begbie... Please keep me in the loop... Pm if you need to.

Cheers Tim

Any update on this Begbie? I can understand it taking a long time but was hoping you had something as this looks very interesting

Nothing as of yet, as i have the suspension sitting in the garage waiting to be sent, but nothing done about it as it's quite depressing when you have to fork out for another engine rebuild and sending off some shocks and springs is the least of my worries

So the front will have adjustment at the top and the rear at the bottom?

Begbie, are you still waiting to send these bits off to Apex ? I've got a spare few days next week if you want me to sort them ?

Jimbo, I am still waiting. Got everything sat in the garage, just need to get it boxed up, print the email conversation i had with them off and get it sent to them

Dare I ask if their is an update?

Nope I need a coupe first

I'm interested looking for a set right now

Sorry if it's OT, but I can't seem to find any comments on D2 coilovers... my suspension upgrade options (here in Croatia) are:
springs+dampers
Bilstein+Eibach £ 1.000
OsravKGA+Osrav springs £930
coilovers
KW variant1 (height adjustable) £720
KW variant2 (height+rebound adjustable) £980
D2 (height,damping&rebound adjustable) £790

I'm after modest ride height drop (max 2cm) and a bit better controlled handling. I have no experience with either of kits, and can't decide between D2 (good spec&cheap) and Osravs (well proven, apart the springs)...

Update?

I've noticed on MLR that a lot of those guys are less than satisfied with the quality of the BC kit.

Indeed. At less than a year old the BC's on my mates Evo popped both the pillowballs out of the top mounts on the Le Mans trip this year. Das ist nicht gut!

Nope, been meaning to get this sorted though. I'll see if i can get the ball rolling again on this one.

im itrested Begbie lets us know whats going on??
cheers

mikey

interesting .....

Well, before commiting any money to this, i need a car that's driveable i.e. mine, then i will get the standard shocks and springs sent over, might be a couple of months yet, then again, this thread is now quite old

i can find you some standard shocks and springs if you want alexis!

I already have them, maybe you need to re-read the thread

oh shut it!

this thread is so old i cant remember!!

We (me, Kev @ Apex Performance / BC Racing UK) Never got the OEM parts so the coilover kit was never made.

However we sourced the parts recently and are going ahead with the development. We expect to have the first test kit (we have a tester sorted) in the next 3-6 weeks and have it for sale in a couple of months.

It will be just the BR kit to start with, retailing at £699
http://www.bc-racing.co.uk/coilovers-series-br/

But we can look at the RM's and ER's after that if there is interest.

ER's - Would be a good choice Marco in his Time Attack car if he is still doing it

Hope you don't mind me bumping this old thread

Hi Kev

I can only apologise in never getting this to you in the first place, an unforeseen engine rebuild meant I didn't have the funds to get the kit to you / developed / use my car as a test mule.

Glad you managed to source something in the end

Kev, how much are you looking at for the RM kit?

I've always fancied the inverted damper but it's never been offered for the coupe.

Also, how durable are the top mount bearings, they can get quite noisy on a road car in no time at all?

RM kit I would guess would be the same price as the other RM kits which is around £850, and it would be the kit I would want too.

RM's would be inverted front only so would be £799 I would imagine.

Topmount bearings are very durable, but also available as a spare for £25.

Thanks, that's a reasonable price.

Rear dampers I take it are adjustable at the bottom of the damper unlike the Koni or OSRAV?

The dampers are adjustable, without seeing where the upper and lower mounting points are I cannot say where the damper adjuster will be.

We are well on with the development so I can ask the factory.

We do need to get the front camber plate in the correct alignment and I cannot find a good engine bay picture showing the relationship between topmount orientation and wheel direction.

Can somebody take a picture of the topmount in the engine bay that we can get this orientation from

eg



rather than this one that I found on one of your picture threads....

whereabouts are you i can come in on my travels if you are on route at some point..i could ring first as i am interested

does this help?



as you can see there D2, but im looking for standard set up now mate!

Well, I've found a photo of the BC BR Kit

That looks like the adjuster for the rear damper is on the top mounting - can they be run inverted?

No idea Nigel, just found the photo on a blog

Picture looks a lot like the already existing coilovers made for the Coupe by D2 and K-Sport...

rumor has it that D2 and K-Sport are produced by the same manufaturer, only colour and label (and price) are different... apart from the looks they share the same working principle including the integrated pillowball top mounts..

regardless of that, I am of the opinion that this new concept is better than that of the existing coilovers of FK, KW, GAZ...

Jochen

Is that definitely the kit Beggers, I don't see how the top of the rear damper will fit through the hole in the rear subframe with that adjustment knob on it?

Unless they can run inverted?

I think they can run inverted, looks like the boot clips onto the shock body. But looking at the setup looks exactly like the fitment for the coupe as they're the same as the 155, 145,6 bravo, brava etc even a multipla iirc could be wrong on that one though :lol:

Jimbo, that is definitely the kit, taken from http://deltaparts1.blogspot.com/

I like his description of the coupe as a "sausage" very true!

Looks interesting and hopefully they will get a good kit out of it.

Also made me laugh at the description of the forum as

Hope Nigel doesn't read it

Well upper strut brace might be debatable, but there must be some distance in the lower one, the alfa 156 ST uses a production subframe with a brace, ok its a little different being made of a flat plate of material with 4 bolt fixing to threads added to the in the inner edge of the U shape but essentially it prevents flex of the U shape in or out.

Too late....

It makes me wonder about the depth of his Coupe knowledge, as it's common knowledge that the Coupe bodyshell is quite flexible. Jack up one corner and try to close a door to see what I mean.

Besides, the vast majority of people that have fitted lower braces have reported a better feel to the steering, so I know who I believe....

I've been in touch with BC Racing over these as they are still in the development phase, the final problem being the damping adjuster on the rear shocks. They need to be in the top of the shock :


I've asked if I can be of any help and they have replied with


So if anyone does have some photo's post them up here or drop me a PM and I'll give you my email address.

AST have them in the lower eye as an upside down design.

Can they not invert their dampers to have the adjuster on the unsrung end?

That's the Leda rear with bottom adjustment.

Surely if they produce inverted struts they can produce a lower adjusting rear damper?

Over time this creates noise from the rear damper with the current design of damper.

Thanks for the pictures.

Have spring rates been decided?

@Jonone - default rates have been picked, but there will be scope to easily change the front rate. I'll look up what front rate we used, it works really well I was driving the car on Tuesday.

We tested 2 rear springs, and have settled on a 6kg/mm, I have the details somewhere of the first one we tested but it was a little soft.

We aim to make the car refined with the default rate, suitable for fast road and occasional trackday use, rather than all-out track/race settings as this is what most people actually want from a coilover


We cannot put the damper adjuster on the bottom of the damper when we use a monotube design, this is normal for twin-tube dampers.

However we can install the damper upside down, which is what we are currently testing to see if there are any adverse effects. The design is different to when we last tested running a damper upside down and hope we wont have the same side effect of noise that was present with the older design.

We are going to slightly tweak the rear damping rates as the current rates do not match the front (you have to have the back a lot harder than the front to get the right balance)

And then we should be about done and ready to launch the kit. It will cost £699

You can achieve standard rideheight with the rear adjuster on the highest setting with a good drop available from that max height.

What sort of max drop would you guys want?

Current Spring rate under test is 6kg/mm front and rear.

That's ~336lbs/in

It sounds like its going to be a good kit and I agree most people want a fast road rather than all out track day kit. I have the gaz coilovers and funny enough I have settled on 325lb rear and 300lb front and was thinking of going 325lb all round or maybe 350lb rear and 325lb front?
so its nice for someone else to have come up with similar rates and also its nice for someone else not to have the rates front bias, I was feeling like an outsider!

My car is at standard ride height as it's supposed to keep the wishbones at the correct angle which in theory helps with understeer, but i don't know how much difference this makes in the real world? I would say most people want there car lowered if only for looks, probably 30mm like the lowering kits is the best compromise?

I'd want the possibilty to go 60mm front, 45mm rear

With 60mm at front you will be scraping off the top layer of speed bumps I reckon!

Yep I probably wouldn't run it that low but it would be nice to have the option to go very low. I had my Alfa 145 that low and it was fine, just go careful over the bumps.

Shouldn't be a problem, but I'll get the accurate figures too


Good stuff.
Worth pointing out that people wanting a front bias or more track orientated kit we can do that. Or even a 2-way adjustable external reservoir more track orientated kit we can develop that quickly and would cost £1299 - just give us a couple of months after the kit is launched to collect customer feedback on the BR kit.

I think a 40mm drop is a realistic ammount to give a nice look and still be useable on the road to clear speed bumps etc.

To give you some indication on the difference between front and rear damping, my Leda's have a 22 point adjustment, the fronts are on 3 clicks, the rear on 14 clicks to get it feeling right.
Will these be bump and rebound adjustable together or just rebound?

This is all looking very positive so far and it gives me a warm feeling that you're doing propper ground work into the design so we know it's a kit that's going to work straight off the shelf and not need many months of messing around to get it feeling right (I speak from experience).

Jimbo, it might be worth having a re-read of what is listed on the BR Series that is being developed http://www.bc-racing.co.uk/coilovers-series-br/

Just out of interest with the good progress that is being made, have you an expected launch date for these (BR)?

Thanks

Mick

I'm hoping we'll have them for sale in August, probably late in the month.


Thanks, however that doesn't means we wont take feedback on-board once the kit is launched if you guys have anything to add to the process.

The BR kit is just adjustable on the damping, on 1 adjuster.
The ER kit would be seperate bound and rebound adjustment.

Typical damping curve (not car specific, this one is actually a starlet) ... well I was going to say is attached but I cant upload, I guess as I'm not a member. I'll mail it to Begbie.

Link to attachment

Are your dampers true monotube/de Carbon type? With the valving on the piston?

Any news on how these are getting on? Still looking good for end of August??

I actually emailed Kev this morning to find out

...and?

...the reply was...?

When I know, I will post

Ah OK I thought you were just teasing us

We are looking at the start of September for a release date I would guess.

Of course it does depend on the testing and test results.

Cutaway of a BC damper, this is actually a Evo7 Damper but the one used on the Front of your Fiats is very similar.

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd401/Kev-BC-Racing/2011-08-17104026.jpg

I wasn't sure what "de carbon" was so asked the factory and they also haven't heard that term.

The coilover is a true monotube, and the valving is on the piston. I posted a picture of a cutaway damper above ^^^^

Christian Bourcier de Carbon invented the hydraulic shock absorber (in 1953) and for many years made and sold dampers under the DeCarbon trademark. The company was bought by Delphi in 1997 and recently sold again to a Chinese manufacturer.

Well the new rear damper seems to be spot on, adjustment is accessible, the damper is mounted upside down.

Just a little more testing and I think we will be ready to launch the kit in early September.

Is anybody interested in one of the kits as soon as they are available - if so mail me kev (AT) bc-racing.co.uk and I'll mail you as soon as they are available to order. Please replace with @ its just to stop the spam-bots.

tempting

tempting

It's a bit of a shock - pardon the pun - that the factory did not know about De Carbon:

High pressure gas monotube damper patented by Christian Bourcier de Carbon in 1953.

Christian Bourcier de Carbon founded the De Carbon company in the same year 1953 when he invented the monotube high pressure gas shock absorber. Soon after a license was sold to Bilstein in Germany. Now that the patent has expired also other companies such as Koni use the monotube technology for their top range dampers. Today the De Carbon technology is preferred by car makers such as Ferrari, Lamborgini, Maserati and Lotus.

Its probably just the terminology, as the factory always use "Momotube" or "Twin Tube"

We have solved the damping adjustment at the rear, but are still working on perfecting the rear damping rates before releasing the kit, thanks.

We are now on the latest and hopefully final damper setup/damping levels for the rear (the front was spot on first time). The newest rear dampers were fitted earlier this week and we are just running through some tests before final release.

I believe Delta Parts will be tacking their "sausage" to your trackday in November for anybody wanting a closer look

Good news

I did send you an email last week to see how they were coming on.

Won't be around for the track day but if you could give a report on how they are I would appreciate it.

Just realized I'm not in this thread yet, so here goes: Interested!

sm_sxoc ,just out of interest have you got the standard spring rates front and rear?

Sorry I dont.

Any adjustment for a caster , or just a camber on the top mount ?
And these coilovers have separate adjustment for a height , right ?

Topmounts just for Camber.

Ride-height adjustment independent of spring pre-load.

Thanks

Sm_sxoc... How different will these be compared to the ones that K-sport make?

I don't have specific knowledge of the KSport Coilovers for the Fiat, and we stopped doing the KSport Coilovers a number of years ago due to the quality being generally low, especially the damper quality in terms of ride and reliability.
The BC Coilovers have a much higher ride quality, performance and reliability.

In terms of on-paper spec they are probably similar, adjustable height, damping and camber front topmount.

Any rough idea when they'll be available yet?

I wonder too

SM are you going to offer 2 types, 'comfy' and 'race'? From memory there are several types of Apex 200SX coilovers with different spring rates?

Closer all the time, we have now settled on the rear damping levels. Hopefully we'll have these out of development and into production in the next few weeks.

In terms of spring rates we are starting with a "fast road & occasional trackday" spring rating. But we can often do custom spring rates for individuals. We do advertise more than 1 "default" rate for some vehicles with consistent demand of various spring rates including the 200SX and Impreza's but even in those applications we still do custom spring rates for some people, eg for use with slicks.

One of the things we are waiting on is the new type of rear adjuster, allowing the rear damper to be mounted right-way up without fouling on the chassis.

We expect most people will want to install the damper upside down, at least initially while they play with the damping as the damper adjuster will be accessible. We have many many years of data on running a damper the right way up, but much less on running the damper upside down to give access to the adjuster. We haven't had any problems with it but we don't know what the score will be after 2-4 years so we will release the kit with the ability to swap the to run in either configuration and leave it up to the user to choose which way to run it, but advising the right-way up after setting the damping to your desired level.

You can't simply swap the rear damper from inverted to the correct way round, the bolt sizes differ between upper and lower.

Unless you make the bushes removable ?

And if you are going for a removable bush, can we have polyurethane please.

That adjuster mechanism won't last long if the damper is run inverted. The lower rear shock mount gets an awful lot of weathering. If buyers are intent on running inverted, I would recommend making some kind of protective sleeve (bicycle inner tube, maybe?)

There will be some sleeves that can be slotted into the end of the bush to alter the size in terms of width & hole size.

And we should have them all ready for sale in December

i would love to hear your opinion and overview of the kit regarding "ride" and handling on english roads.

The kits we design are for real world usage, and this particular kit has been tested around Yorkshire, N York Moors and Dales. As well as A roads.

I'm sure you will be happy with the ride quality, and also sure there will be independent feedback posted here from FCCUK members who get the kit in the first weeks of it being available

More track orientated users may want a harder sprung setup.

what was the cost of these kits again ? if there was one i cant remember

£699

Thanks

Remember the best person to speak to about how the kit rides is Martin at Delta Parts

www.deltaparts.co.uk

Also you can order your kit through him too, just give him a shout.

hi there
these look pretty good
has anyone got and feed back from them
and are they a direct replacement for the standard suspension
or is there a little bit of work involved in fitting then
i am asking because i am looking at a set of these
or to get a set of d2 as shown in the link d2 coilovers
that i no a few have tried and tested
thanks very much noddy

What's included for 699, adjustable shocks all round?

what i want to know is what the ride is like compared to the bilstein shocks and a decent set of springs ..

The kit will be a full kit, with front camber topmount, for all 4 corners of the car.
30 point damping adjustment
Adjustable ride-hight (independent of ride-height settings)
Adjustable ride-height.

I have no experience of the D2 kit for the Coupe, but the D2 coilovers tend to be over-sprung and under-damped for UK roads so I would imagine a much better quality of ride from the BC kit.

Compared to Bilstein I have no idea, sorry, hopefully once more people on here get the kit you can get some independent feedback. Generally we receive very good feedback from customers who have used other brands of coilovers (KW, AST, Gaz, D2, Tein etc) and then ours. We also get good feed back from people who have avoided coilovers before as being "too harsh" and have stuck to shocks/springs thinking all coilovers are designed for the track, not for the road.

Delta Parts, as mentioned previously have the most experience of this kit (although I have driven the car) as they helped with the development and did all the testing. This is the first kit they have helped us with, we have also worked with Delta parts on 2 previous kits for the Lancia's both of which have gone down a storm with customers and I expect the same sort of feedback from Fiat customers.

Thanks

There's nothing on the Delta Parts website about fiat coupe dampers from what I can see, just a glass fibre bonnet?

You would need to give them a call

+44 (0)1924 359311

Still on for December release date??

Yup

Delta Parts and ourselves are now taking Pre-orders for these, thanks.

Now on the website, I believe some of you guys looked at the kit at the recent trackday.

http://www.bc-racing.co.uk/c-bczo01/fiat-coupe-coilovers-93-00-fa175/

Any order placed before 29th November will be delivered, most likely on 6th December.

http://www.bc-racing.co.uk/c-bczo01/fiat-coupe-coilovers-93-00-fa175/

I can also mention that all BC prices will go up in 2012 so well worth buying them this year

Well, I've ordered so am looking forward to getting this

Also, if you use the code FREE at the checkout you will get free delivery.

These do look interesting Alexis, can I ask what the reasoning was to make you splash the cash?

Do you think these are really suited to mostly ALL road use? (For me anyway)

Because I don't like my FK coilovers and I need new top mounts, so best of both worlds here, but it's been setup for a coupe, rather than being a generic based kit

Look forward to read feedback on this!

Me too, I expect it to be very good but I'm Glad somebody like Begbie is getting a set and can give you all independent feedback

I believe both track and road use will be reviewed soon

What about springs, or is this the whole thing.

Have you actually looked at the link above? It's the whole lot

Its a full kit, with front camber topmounts, height adjustable front/rear, damping adjustable front/rear.

Thanks

For any of the specialists watching this thread - what would be an approx. cost for fitting and set up on-top of the purchase price?

Very good question Patch. Interested to know the answer to that.

If the feedback is good I would be tempted to go for this, but by the time we get any feedback the price will probably have gone up.

I would be ready to buy in Jan, any idea how much it will go up by?

Bit early to put it up in my opinion when they have only just been released and nobody has a comparison with them yet either.

Would depend on your garage.
About 1-2 hours to fit by a professional, with rideheight setup.
Alignment £50-£500, usually around £130 with 4-wheel alignment, camber, toe & thrust angle setup but no corner weighting or rideheight setup.




Begbie should have feedback before Xmas

Thanks for that SM. That's all I needed to know.

How about enough interest for a Group buy?
Prices?

Thanks.

I'm very interested in this kit, my only concern is the pillow ball top mount and how long it will last before it starts knocking.
I think the use of the word "Pillow" is a bit misleading, a pillow you usually associate with softness, not a solid block of metal with no give at all!

I'm just concerned it may be too harsh for a road car, especially for guys running 18" wheels with low profile tyres.
I'm also waiting for Begbies feedback

One more question; rear height adjustment- is it done through the lower spring platform similar to the FK setup?

Jimbo, rear height adjustment piccy

Why thankyou Similar to the FK then.

I notice there's a threaded section to the rear damper, I guess it shares the damper body from a kit which uses a coil over the damper on the rear.

Hi the front topmounts bearing is a common item across many of the BC range and has a very long life. Worst case they are £29.50 for replacements. We generally avoid the solid mounting on the rear of cars where the suspension top is under the parcel shelf to keep as much refinement and noise absorption as possible. However this is not applicable on the Coupe. Solid mounting on the front, in the engine bay will not be an issue for road use. We maybe able to provide the kit with a rubber front topmount, but you would lose the camber adjustment and save very little cash, its really not worth it.

The rear damper is Coupe specific, however you adjust the total length of it as you adjust the rideheight.

Getting the rear damping right was the reason this kit took a little longer than we hoped to release. We had to develop an entirely new type of damper end/damper adjuster and went through several changes to the shim stack/bleed valve before we were happy with the damping over the whole range of adjustment.

So you then have height adjustment on the spring and the damper too?

Yes, its the right way to do it. You adjust the rideheight with the spring assembly length, then make sure the max damper length is set so the spring will not dislocate when you cock a wheel in the air mid corner, or take air off a humpback bridge you didnt see coming ...

Ah, clears that one up

Group buy?

BC-racing won't do the group buy themselves, or if they do, it won't be at a lower price, maybe a few extra's thrown in.

I believe if you speak to Barbz / Eddie at http://aecar.co.uk/default.aspx (Barbz is friends with Eddie) they might be able to arrange a group buy.

You would hope that Deltaparts would be considered for some sales and a group buy as a bit of a thanks as it was them (and Apex/BC that made this possible....

Has anyone tried these in Anger aka race or track day? Thanks

Yes, we did at Donington the other week.

Who is we, and can you give any feedback?
What about where alot of people will use it....on the road?

Thanks.

Me Im only interested in the track! What car, mods, weight, lap times?
Thanks

I work at Deltaparts and we approached Apex/BC early in the year to help them develop a setup for the Coupe as we are running one at the moment as a hmmm well, combination of test car/street sleeper project, customer car/track car and some college projects for me.
TBH, it started off as just us saving a 16vt that we picked up locally, we built a new engine then it just snowballed and got a bit out of hand, it's some sick car now.

Sorry, back to the subject, we helped them with the integrale set up a while ago and this suspension has been on the coupe since spring, the front was great out of the box, but the rear took quite a few attempts to get right, itwas too bouncy and i kept bashing my head on the roof in the back when testing lol. We eventually got the dampers (from BC) to match the springs and it feels great on the road on the fully soft setting, not too harsh at all, well controlled, easy to drive and corners really well.

At Donington we stiffened it up (15 clicks) and it gripped really well in the afternoon when we had some sticky tyres on, it doesn't have any thicker ARBs, but will understeer or oversteer depending on how you treat the throttle in the corner.
The car was only running about 360bhp at a guess as we only set it up quickly the day before and it wasn't 100% finished.
It is standard weight and we were doing 1.58s later on when Martin was driving witht he silencer fitted (lol) and i was timing. When roger wqas driving he kept slowing down by the noise sensors because it wasn't his car and we got black flagged 3 times before the exaust mod/bodge quietened it down.
It's running 2 silencers so i don't know why it's so noisy, probably high lift cams and 8500rpm....

Anything more i would ring Martin and ask him, he knows it better than me and inside out, i just thought it strange that while we did all the hard work other companies were making all the money.
We can do a group buy.

Can we have some group buy prices please?
Based on 5 and 10.
If the prices are listed here and are good, we may be able to tempt a few more people into it.

Hi

Been running BC's on the front for over a year now and they are excellent. Technics had a go in mine recently

Hi Barbz,
Which variant are you running?
"Street and Circuit Coilover retails for £649
Inverted Damper For Pro Track retails for £849
External Reservoir retails for £1175"
Thanks

"BR type"

Yes we will see what we can come up with, we will ask BC/Apex what can be done as we have to work closely with them and you to make sure a good compromise is met between us all in order to stop price wars, dealers falling out, dissatisfied customers etc.
Whilst we know Barbz has been using BC coilovers on the front of his car only to good effect, they were from an integrale so did not have the same settings and the top mounts didn't fit - they would have needed re-drilling on the car.

RM type will be available as a special order as will the ER, but the ER type will need some testing first to find a place to fix the remote canister.

Yes, it would be nice if Delta parts got some orders for the help with development - especially when a few start using the kit and tell everyone how good of a job you have done

customer kit #1 being despatched today

Got the tracking email today

Hi Begbie, Which ones have you gone for? Is it for pure track work or road stuff too?
Thanks
Ben

16veetee has no one taken the ER yet? Where abouts is Delta or you?? My brother owns a trackday company so I would be able to help with track time to set them up properly?

Money is burning a hole!

apparently you've met an done business with my boss last Summer so I think your memory is a bit poor.

No-one has asked about ER series. All we need to do is to decide where to put the remote reservoir, once an order is placed we will do that and Bobs yer uncle so be a pioneer...

I've gone for the BR's

Ha slept since then! Pm me some prices on the full range and delivery times. btw did he sell those wheels I really regret selling them!!

Suspension has arrived Will be fitting this over the weekend, so will report back then

Looking forward to reading that then!

Pictures pictures pictures!!! Need pictures now

Yeah they are nice wheels, for personal use only I believe (they're still here).

Prices of full range inc shipping here: http://www.deltaparts.co.uk/index.asp?itemID=264

If you order by Tuesday eve they will be with you a week later.

Yes true, the Integrale damper setup has allowed us to run a more aggressive caster position.
BR Base damper settings are the same as is the spring rate.


Wasn't aware of any price war mate!
Just offering a good price for a good tuning product, like i've always done over the years.

Hi Alexis
You do realise that bravo style top mounts have been supplied with that kit?

Barbz

What difference will that make?

The topmounts are specific for the Fiat Coupe, we dont have a Bravo kit.

i think barbz may have been suggesting that if they were bravo style they may give you less caster? (im sure barbz will confirm if this is what he means)
barbz has told me that the bravo mounts give less caster, but jimbo told me he measured them and they are the same as the std coupe ones.....who's right i dont know are you still talking to me jimbo

i am sure they will just be std caster settings, i.e fine.

the gaz kit had optional caster topmounts and barbz drilled his turrets for more caster with the bc kit.

Correct! Just measure them anyway when in place against the OEM ones to be sure, no drama's.



With Awesome results!

Need as much grip as i can get these days, especially on the twisty's.

The measurements and angles of the topmounts on the BC kit are a direct copy of the original Fiat Coupe item.

For sure, if you want to modify them or your car then go ahead, there are certainly gains (in grip) to be had by an increase in castor angle.

Explanation here for those who don't understand how it works:

http://deltaparts1.blogspot.com/2010/05/intrax-suspension-systems-camber-and.html

When someone offers the same product at less than list price than anyone else, competitors then lower their prices to gain back the lost trade, this is called a 'Price war', here is a more official and wholesome description courtesy of Wikipedia:



Please answer me this question; Do you have an account with Apex/BC Racing?
We do and we follow their code of conduct.
Now we don't wish to fall out over this, not in the slightest. We are just the same as you - interested and enjoying working on/modifying Italian cars and trying to make a living whilst doing it, but we do also strive for some fairness and a level playing field between traders and customer alike.
This is the third suspension set up we have worked on with major manufacturers which has brought huge advantages to the community and other trade vendors alike so I believe we are 'doing our bit' and not jumping on the bandwagon of other peoples hard work and trying to undercut their prices by fair means or foul.
My cards are laid on the table, are yours Sir? We represent ourselves and do not have our minions, fans or hangers-on to do it for us. There are no secret PMs, Chinese whispers or backhanded dealing.

We are working with Apex/BC on a 'Group buy' which is both level, above board and within the codes of good practice.

Thankyou for reading, I hope you see where I am coming from, even if you do not agree with what is happening.

Edited - it seems I was wrong!

Wow! Your intelligent.
There is no sign of you on the Group buy/parts for sale section selling your wares. I guess the price war has started as from today then?


YES!
Welcome to, aecar.co.uk. Been trading for several years now and selling bc coilovers for a couple.


Somehow i dont think so.


Sounds familiar.


Oh really! So now your educating me on business and work ethics?


Now i'm insulted.
You've been reading too much News of the World. Evidence please!


What a contradiction when your accusing me of under hand tactics. Joker!


Nothing wrong with taking up minions, fans or hangers on who voluntary & happily offer to contribute to this great community.


Again, evidence please!


Bravo! Give yourself a pat on the back and blow your own trumpet.


So it's all a game to you?

I advise you strongly to present sound evidence before making childish rants.

With a lot of help from Dr Wiki Phd.

Joining recently and attempting to patronise with wikipedia links doesn't serve you well in terms of appearing professional.

You may refer to satisfied customers as 'minions, fans or hangers-on' - it is very telling of your mentality towards customers and potentially insulting towards people that have genuine respect for his work - well done on beginning to alienate a potential customer base.

You on the other hand do not appear to have 'understood the game'. You have to earn respect. As a representative of deltaparts, you've gone about it the wrong way with your unsubstantiated rant. Totally. Would I buy from you or Barbz? Barbz every time - oh and wait for it... I'd pay more to buy from him as I'd be guaranteed excellent customer service.

You will find that Barbz has many years of experience in the field and has earned genuine respect, legitimately based on his knowledge as well as his honesty, reliability and customer care. Perhaps you could learn a thing or two.






Who are you again? Oh sorry don't bother, not interested

ps does your company know how 'well' you are representing them on the 'world wide web'?

How arrogant can you be?

You come on here insulting one of the most influential tuners in the Coupe community, writing up childish rants and making a fool of yourself.

Not a great way to introduce yourself to a forum who could have a great impact on your business. But then again, it's not your business is it? No one with a hint of common and business sense would write up posts to alienate any possible customers.

Before you feel the need to bring your point across again, which doesn't mean anything by the looks of it, think before you speak and have some respect for others who have devoted a big part of their life to have brought the Coupe to where it is today.

Not that either of the above comments are biased or anything....

Ok, I'm not interested in forum battles so I will try not to be drawn in any more. I have said my piece and will continue in a more civilised fashion without lowering the standards.

*ahem* It would have been me developing / testing the kit 2 years ago, if my engine hadn't let go on the dyno and resulting in a new forged build, but I wouldn't have asked for sales / money being donated to me, as I was developing the kit for the coupe community so everyone would benefit.

Well I have to say, this thread has turned into a most amusing contretemps. I was rather amazed by Patch's initial response, but it seems he has seen the light and I think you'll find that Rudi and Biggenz's views are held by the majority of members on here, and as a way of introducing oneself to members who might be looking for a suspension upgrade, deltaparts have made a bit of a mess so far.

So, back on topic, come on Alexis give us more pics as fitted, and a review please!

Yes, more to this than first thought, I did like this bit though

"We are just the same as you - interested and enjoying working on/modifying Italian cars and trying to make a living whilst doing it, but we do also strive for some fairness and a level playing field between traders and customer alike."

Still, as above, let's wait for Alexis to conclude his/this on going and interesting update for the car we all love.

Peace brothers!

Will do Dave. Saturday's weather is looking okay, I will have a hangover and Jonone will no doubt be getting a passenger ride, so I'm sure he will be able to comment too

Well said Pero.

i will comment and we can compare them to my gaz setup so possibly quite interesting all round!

So this'll be Martin trying to get down with the kids, speaka da English !

If it is an employee my advise is to look for a new job, better that than have anything to do with the biggest robber out there. Robbing other people products as best he can, though not always with success, right Martin?!
As an employee of such a gobshxte I would urge you towards some self education on the subjects you get force fed excrement, you'll be amazed how lacking Guru Mington is when you know a bit yourself.

By the way, the integrale BC shockers were the efforts of a genuine enthusiast over on the Delphi Evocorner Forum that which he was motivated to do for the good of the community, this was until Martin Crabcock spotted a way to line his own pockets, this is always his motivtion, GREED.

Believe one thing above all others, I have been on the thin edge of the wedge regarding Martin and his business dealings, his moral values are the absolute lowest.

I urge you all to buy from anywhere you can to avoid lining up at Deltaparts like the sheep he preys on, don't be a sheep, baaaaaa!

Guys, keep this on the topic of the new coilovers.

Any more bitching and it will be closed!

Sound like everyone is quite happy with Barbz's services and products anyway.

(Not a bitching btw :))

Just to say - Barbz is the man, end of....

Question:

On the AE Car site the BR Series is described as "44mm diameter piston in a 53mm diameter damper body" whereas on the Deltaparts site it says "46 mm diameter piston in a 53mm diameter damper"
is there a real difference or just a spelling issue ??

thanks, Jochen

Well the kit is fitted and the difference is just night and day in comparison with the FK's. Initally I've only set it at 5 clicks (out of 30) and it's a nice ride. I've only taken it around with block with jonone on some roads that I know I had issues with the FK's where the car would bottom out, but with the BC's it didn't.

Hopefully will get a bit more testing done this evening on the Hogs Back road (local's will know that the dual carriage way isn't great) and hopefully give some more feedback on it, but it's all looking good at the moment

Sounds promising Any pictures of the install or were you too keen to get out on the road?

Sounds good Begbie.

Have you turned the rear damper up side down?

Please show some pics of the coilovers

Not taken any, but will take some tomorrow probably.

Damper is upside down and can only be mounted that way due to the bolt size, so easy access for making the damper stiffer.

Nice.

Right, time to give a bit more in-depth review on this kit.

Fitment of the kit was easy and everything all bolted in as it should, although I was getting angry at why I couldn't fit the front struts but this was due to me trying to get the mounts in the locating holes where the top mounts go, duh The rear shocks are mounted upside down, so this allows easy access to adjusting the shocks from soft to hard. I was a little concerned on how the rear springs and cup sat, as from the FK's, you have bolt in the cup into the trailing arm and the springs are a snug fit on the top of the rear subframe. I put them in place and to be honest, they won't move anywhere when the car is loaded up, or even jacked up.

The ride, well I've still left it on 5 clicks out of 30 and I'm perfectly happy with it. I've done about 100 miles of driving since fitting the kit and driven it on bumpy and smooth A&B roads and there were certain points I used to dread as the car would bottom out and the exhaust would hit the floor. Well this just doesn't happen and feels extremely planted even on a reasonably soft setting. I had a drive from Guildford to Dorking the other night and the speed I could carry in the corners was 10% - 15% more than the speed limit and didn't really give any hints of understeer, but it was damp and dark, so didn't really try pushing it, but I would hazard a guess that if the dampers were turned up, it would just handle even better.

The bonus about the kit, is that you get adjustable top mounts, so you can dial in what camber you want without having to faff about with camber bolts, or a slotted strut to get the camber right.

Jonone also had a ride in the car after I fitted the kit and he said the following :


So there you go, well worth the money and it's made me feel so much better about the car

What about road noise Begbie, they are now a solid top mount and although named a "pillow ball" I can see there being an increase in noise and vibration?

It would be interesting to have a review of these dampers on a coupé used as a daily drive.

Have you played with ride height and how simple is it to adjust the height now it's done via the hub mounting point?

Well, I just ordered some.
Prices go up on 20th from aecars

You haven't been in my car if you're talking about road noise TBH I actually haven't noticed any difference in noise or vibrations so can't really comment on that.

I haven't played with the ride height at all, left it all as standard and it seems to be pretty much spot on

I believe porkypaul is going to order a set too after speaking to him on the phone earlier

Adjusting the rear springs seems to be pretty self-explaining, can you comment on how to adjust the rear dampers ?

Thanks, Jochen

There is a little dial that you turn on the rear shock

I got mine the other day. They look spot on, very impressed with the quality. I have the stainless steel FK coilovers and these seem much better (and were cheaper!).

No comment on handling yet, engine is not in the car!

They have gone up in price but not by too much today. £678
How long did it take for them to arrive?

Any orders on our website before 27th December will likely be despatched 3rd or 4th of Jan on a next working day service.

Any orders on our website 27th Dec - 2nd Jan will likely be despatched ~9th Jan.

From 3rd Jan price will be £769, £699 now

http://www.bc-racing.co.uk/c-bczo01/fiat-coupe-coilovers-93-00-fa175/

Why the 10% increase ?

Stress.

Ow well D2's it is then

I have the D2's and they are spot on.

Hi Taffy, Have you used them on track?

Yes he has and i was in with him for an hour at Spa. We were both impressed with them.

Cheaper?

aaaaaa Yep
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/D2-RACING-COIL...=item4cfa756055

I am happily awaiting my parcel from BC...

Who else ordered one and can comment on ride quality and how many klicks they tried...

Jochen

What spring rate does he use with his D2?!
Thanks
Juergen

We just couldn't hold back the price rise, sorry.

Coupe Prices
BR-RA now £769
ER (after manufacture) now £1399

I would have thought the coilovers would be much better than other brands for road use with a good ride quality, comfort and performance balance - this is where they should excel against the competition.

From the feedback so far I think my statement above is reflecting peoples thoughts.

On track or smoother roads coilovers with less emphasis on damping and more on spring rate would not show up there insufficiencies as much.

The BC Coupe kit is flying out of the door, and all around Europe so there should be plenty of independent feedback available for you guys over the next few weeks and months

That's why I decided to buy one and hopefully will not be dissapointed...

Could you tell us a bit more about the special damping advantages of your kit, i.e. how damping changes from click 1 to 30 (regarding bump/rebound curves or in per cent or whatever describes it) and what settings (X out of 30, differences front to rear) would you recommend for daily road use, fast road use and track use, etc..

I guess that people will appreciate some extra information on how to achieve the best results with your kit

Thanks...

Hi,

Setup can be very personal, so don't worry if you like a setting that is different from other people.

Generally full-soft to 10 from soft would be the range that people will use on the road, but again that doesn't make 15 from soft "wrong" I encourage everyone to experiment, you have paid for the adjustment so use it

Its not that our damping is "special" its just that we spend more time getting the right level of damping than a lot of companies selling coilovers under £1000. Our damping is not linear which helps with the range of adjustement.

Most of the development time was spent tuning the rear low-speed damping (range 0-0.3m/s) if it wasn't for that the kit would have been ready after the first prototype kit. You have Delta parts to thank for how well the kit has turned out We need good feedback to make good kits.

Most companies look for track handling and lowering as the major factors to consider. We prioritise real world "fast road" use, getting a kit with enough comfort and suppleness so you can enjoy your spirited driving yet still with a good increase in handling and roll reduction over OEM. We aren't looking to make the kit that will go the lowest, many of our kits will do near-standard to -60mm. I know the fiat Coupe kit will do standard rideheight, I have no idea what the lowest rideheight will be - low enough is all I can say. I'm sure somebody will quantify that for us at some point.

However we will still listen to any feedback on how to improve the kit should you guys have suggestions.

I know this is
1) ER Series
2) American
3) Subaru
4) From 2009

But it still is a very good review of our products and philosophy.

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/gd-suspensio...ive-review.html

You can still get them here for £678.

http://aecar.co.uk/bccoiloverkitfiatcoupe.aspx

Haven't recieved mine as yet. Been updated with emails.
Ordered 16th Dec. obviously Xmas etc in the way so understandable ish!
I was given one date amusingly as 25/02/2013.
Latest was despatch 4th/5th.
4/9 days delivery on website.

Heh, that's just Xmas playing with our systems, normally its 3-9 working days and we still did pretty well with no working days 24th Dec - 3rd Jan.

The first order update e-mail will have picked up stock order due 25th Feb 2012 - in our system as +1 year just so we can deal with what needs to be brought it by air freight rather than our stock orders that are brought in by sea.

I guess you have them now and are smiling

Yes I got them thanks.

Right, an update to this.

Darren (dlongstaff) decided against testing the new springs as he was happy with running the standard rear springs and rubbers, so the testing of the new rears was given to me. I'm sure Darren can add to this, as to why he decided to choose this path.

The new springs and rear cups arrived today and have been fitted, but not driven yet, so unable to comment just yet.

I was given 2 sets of new springs, 200mm and 210mm in length, whilst the old ones are 180mm in length. I was also given a new spring perch on the rear. Now a couple of things to note, when I fitted these with the 180mm springs, I wasn't running a rear top spring rubber nor the lower spring cup rubber, as due to the FK's these bolt directly to the trailing arm. I have used the top rubbers and got some 2nd had lower spring cup rubbers from Joe78, as this is what the spring perch needs for it to sit better on the trailing arm.

I opted to fitted the 210mm length springs along with the new perch and the difference in springs is quite different. When you look at the lower part of the spring it is now angled back so that when the car is on full droop it still sits in the spring perch without wobbling. The length of the spring, the angle of the spring and the new spring perch means that the springs sits fairly soldily when on full drop, this was evident in having to jack the rear trailing arm up to get the anti roll bar bolt back in.

Anyway, some piccies :



To give you an idea on what was happening before, here is a short youtube video and what happens with the FK's

I don't have a video of the new BC setup as I didn't think to do it and it start pouring with rain.

So the BC rear mounts aren't bolted in like the FKs then? So what is holding them in place on the rear arm?

Correct Jim.

They are being held in place by the springs and the lower rubber cup and have little chance of popping out / dislocating, unlike version 1 of the rears.

How do we get hold of version 2 rears? They available to everyone or still at testing stage? That does look much better than the current BC rears I've got on there.

Be interested to know if handling has been affected.

Still testing, as I need to drive the car. But I noticed this morning when getting the bicycle out of the garage, that the rear is looking quite high, so will need to adjust that

Begbie I can't see any pics.

EDIT: now I can

Just to update, I'm going to try the 200mm springs now, as the 210mm make the car too high at the back. I have wound the spring perch down with 5mm left and it just still looks too high.

Will report after a wedding in Wales and a trip around the Evo Triangle

Sounds like it's gonna be a good test

The other half doesn't know about the Evo Triangle, so will suggest a stop off point half way around, which is conveniet

Any news ??

Havent't had problems so far with the rear springs but nevertheless I am not comfortable with the current situation... :-(

thanks

Sorry, have been busy with work etc..

So, I took the car to Wales for a wedding and stayed a couple of nights up there too, so I could drive the Evo Triangle too The handling in all honesty doesn't feel like it's changed at all after a 900 odd mile round trip. I had left the car on 15 clicks all round and it handled very well. I did get a disapproving look from the other half when I tried to induce understeer but instead, the car just stuck to the road.

The only thing I would say is that the spring perch just makes the car that little too high at the back, so might try the new spring with the old perch to see how that fairs. A photo of what I mean, although it is hard to see

It actually looks like it's sitting level which is about right.

It's not though. I did a quick measure of the front sill to the floor and the rear sill to the floor and it's a few cm higher at the rear.

SO your trip was with the 200mm springs and you have 5mm thread left ??
New springs seem to have smaller diameter, sure they fit the old spring perch ??

At least, good to hear the new springs don't affect the performance

Well, I think Begbie’s video shows very well why the rear springs fail MOT standards.
To clarify.
I only put my original springs back on the car for the MOT re-test leaving the BC shocks on as I anticipated after the re-test fitting the BC springs back onto the car. The ride was/is actually good and an improvement to the BC spring. So, I have left the setup like this until a replacement spring was sorted out. I wasn’t ‘happy’ with it as such, but stuck with it!
When the rear spring scenario was raised I would like to add that all emails were acknowledged and answered from the suppliers and AE CARS suggested a refund. I asked if I could just be given another compatible spring instead. I am happy with the kit and the quality, but the rear spring oversight is a little confusing. As the rest of the kit is good, why they got the rear spring wrong is odd.
It was then suggested that the ‘customer’ could test an alternative spring that would be ready in the next two weeks. Begbie said he was happy to do this, I was not. My reason was that I bought a kit which I assumed would of already had undertaken extensive testing before it was ever sold to the public. Why would I test something I am not qualified to do? And I found the suggestion wholly unacceptable. I am in no way questioning Begbies credentials, far from it but, is BC’s factory going to go into production of springs on the thumbs up of a person who says it’s ok?
I paid for my kit in December, got it in January. Failed my MOT couple of months ago, alerted BC to the situation. Got in touch with a handful of people who I could find out who had bought the kit. And since then, a couple of months back , nothing! There has not, at least on my behalf any kind of recall of the springs, update or news from or on BC’s behalf. If it wasn’t for the forum pretty sure no one would know what is going on.
I need to get in touch with BC again, obviously. I thought things were going to happen and I have been busy and more time gone by then I realised so not passing the buck.
Again, no slight at Begbie but has the question been answered yet...... do the replacement rear springs pass MOT standards?

I've fitted the small rubber spring seat that sits on the bottom of the standard springs and it seems to have cured this problem on mine. Certainly stopped the spring platform from rattling around.

Why don't they just use the FK method of bolting the spring platform to the rear arm? I honestly don't know what they were thinking putting it in unsecured?

Anymore more news on the issues with the rears being resolved?

That's what we all would like to know!
I got round to sending an email asking for any news update the reply goes along the lines that they have read Begbies report on the forum and that it has resolved the mot issue. That the most stringent mot would result in a pass.

Once again that is just an opinion, not hard fact.
And no mention whatsoever about replacement springs or a timetable/agenda.
So sweet fa really.

I don't think that's really fair Darren.

Lets get it into perspective.

1) Has everyone's car failed the MOT due to the rear springs? No, I'm pretty sure not as its a grey area and your tester failed them. We run this sort of setup on many many cars, BMW E30 / E36 / E46, Nissan 350Z to name a few - we dont have issues with MOTs.

2) When you, as a club, the FCCUK, choose which of the 2 new spring options you would like to be put into production (and Begbie is still testing) then we'll do that and have the original 180mm spring and either the 200 or 210mm spring options.

3) With the new springs the min/max rideheight will change, as will the ride-heights at which full spring/seat contact can be achieved to satisfy even the MOT testers with the strictest interpretation of the MOT Rules.


So has anybody had an MOT pass with the original spring setup? Would be nice to get that confirmed within the club.

Well I've been told of at least 1 MOT pass on the kit as originally supplied "Sailed through"

This isnt specfic to Bc's its just someone has been keen to spot it.

My Gaz rears have popped out whilst driving around Donington when i went on the grass.So potentially then can dislodge.

My advice is to get the KW cups or similar and use them.I will have to do the same.

Just fitted my rear springs and shocks using the top and bottom rubber seats and the ride seems spot on....
Early days yet though i guess so i'll post again at a later date after trying them out a bit more

Update?

There is no update and there never will be.
Eddie at AE cars has ignored my emails and does not sell them any more.
Apexperformance BC suppliers opinions are a joke. What you going to get to two mots and call it a day.
Joke guys. Don't buy. Simple.
Could of been a different thread full of praise of a company pulling their finger out and resolving their mistake.
Whatever the opinion of a response will be six months later it's too late and pathetic

Terrible stuff that is.

I paid my money.
I was expecting more than they obviously can deliver.
For the sake of ? Hundred quid replacement ?
Pity!

That's unfair!

(message I typed deleted and e-mailed instead to Begbie, AE cars and Darren)

FACT!
We are waiting for the feedback requested to put one of the 2 springs into production.

Thanks

Quote from MAY

Note point 2 - we are still waiting for that to proceed - if we had the answer in May it would be sorted by now.

The Fccuk Club itself will not be choosing any spring options OR endorsing this product.

Any choices made will be entirely down to the individuals who decide on what they want to see made and what they would like to purchase for themselves/their Coupe.

Please don't confuse the difference between FORUM members who decide for themselves what they want and the CLUB who's members vote for the Club's board to make decisions for what they see as best for the Club.

The FCCUK does not endorse these springs and it's up to the individual to make their own mind up on what option they would like to take, if any, regarding the purchase of these springs.

I'll acknowledge that, thanks for the clarification.

The group of customers who have bought this kit and collectively discussing it on this forum is what I'm referring too. Other customers who have not seen this thread do not seem to have the same issue. So we want a resolution that will satisfy this group of customers.

We have had further input now, and have already acted upon that.

We will develop a further spring, based round the new spring platform design already tested but with a better range for the ride height. We hope this will be an acceptable fix.

What is the current retail of these coilovers?

Ross

List of the length wanted for the replacement rear spring. 200mm or 210mm (for existing customers)

dlongstaff-200mm

Direct from BC - £769
Other dealers - Approx £700

We have moved on from this question asked in May.... no point asking it now!

Please see my previous reply.

Thanks

Must say as of yet ive not found fault with my rear suspension set up???
Not tryed it on track to push it though

The new shorter rear spring to work with the new spring platform is ready, and Begbie will have it to test next week.




Good stuff

hi guys..

is this sorted yet??

really want to get a set of these on my car..

Latest update :

BC got a coupe into their factory and have come up with the solution for the rear. They are going to make a shorter rear damper, along with a new set of 180mm springs and a new spring perch.

The damper / spring / perch should be done by the end of October.

Pictures are as below :

so best to buy a set in October then

what will happen to people who have the kit?

exchange basis on the old rear shocks and springs??

those alfa wheels are sexual
Not sure about them on the coupe though...

Looks good

I'm guessing there's normally a weather proof boot on there and it was just removed for the picture?

well its sounding good but need to make my mind up to go for these or stick with the GAZ set ive been looking at

End of October, or maybe wait till I have them, then buy the new kit? I know SM_SXOC will be posting this week, but I'm helping him out on what he has sent me. I presume the people who have the kit already will be sorted out.


I hope so too!


Well I know Flea was impressed with the turn in on the coupe when I took him out at Curborough and I only had it set at -1 degree of camber and straight ahead toe. Fishy Dave I think was also surprised at how RWD the car felt when I took him out

This is what i have on my car, these are custom made suspensions made by the company that provides suspension for many WRC cars here in France. The strut is copied from the original and the springs are calculated for the weight of my car and usage with a modified bilstein shock.

The wishbones are OEM fiat but modified to accept bearings. No more play in the front drivetrain

Very pleased with it.


Might be interested in BC kit for the rears as i'm still running koni's and eibach springs are the rear

How much did this cost you dink ?

I'd like to know this too!

Well, oddly enough, at 12pm today, I received my new shortened shocks, so I'm sure that will be done fairly shortly.

Completely off topic but, Begbie which Alfa are the teledials from (GTV?) and are they a straight fit?

I think they are replicas as they are four stud. Most Alfa wheels are 5 stud in 17".

Tick tock

hi..guys
actually how many kg spring to use on our coupe is better for...
road use=??
race use=??
track use=??
thanks.

Sorry to bring this back up, but could someone tell me if the BC's allow you to run at standard height? Or what the highest height you can run at with these fitted?

I've just fitted mine, although I've not set mine at standard height I would expect there is sufficient adjustment to do it

I have just bought one set of BC Coilovers. Hopefully I get them before X-mas

First day with new coilovers will be in May with Club Alfa Romeo at Gelleråsen race track.

I got my package today. Very nice kit!

Make sure the eye ends are secure on the rear dampers. I know they are not identical but D2 use the same kit and there have been a few eye end s come loose.
Looks a nice kit though, I bet you can't wait to get them fitted.

Make sure you have the rear spring set up where the springs cannot become dislocated on full travel

Thanks for the tip!

Hi there!

Any return of the last people who bought the BC kit ?

The rear spring problem is solved ?

Thanks for your help

Kévin ;-)

No answers...
I've ordered the BC kit and i'll keep you in touch with my results. ;-)

They will be great Kevin.

I hope so! Wasn't really please with my silverline X...

FK's offer only 1°4 max camber! And are so crashy and bumpy on our Gironde countryside roads!

Make sure you get the dust cover on the rear dampers. Mine had no covers

From where did you buy them?

Hi Freddan!

Order mine from DC Performance.
Ask them if they will ship the last version with enhanced rear spring and mount. Dan (my contact @DC) call BCracing and they confirm it's the last version .
Dust cover are normally send with the kit? Why don't you have it in yours? How do you do without dust cover?

Thanks for help!

I haven´t installed them. They are lying on the table.....

They (BC Racing) must have missed to assemble the dust cover in the factory. D'oh!

ROOOOH! They will send it to you soon? This is not serious!

One other thing that I have noticed. There are two holes that are used for guiding the original top mount.



When I changed to BC Racing Coilovers I saw that the holes are not covered. I talked to friend, who has installed D2 coilovers, and the top mount on D2 covers the holes.

Anyone know why BC made a smaller top mount? Should I plug the holes or just leave them?

I've just left them on mine, they are only there to help locate the mounts on the original suspension.

I've received my kit today. Great quality product, good packaging... but they missed the rear shock dust cover like Freddan!

I contact DC performance to ask them... ;-)

Dan @dcperformance said to me the probable reason is that the rear damper that Begbie try first is not the same as we buy. If you look the last Begbie's pics (with the same damper as us) , it hasn't the dust cover. But i think it's more secure with it!

To confirm, Dan ask BC tomorrow. I let you know what he said to me.

http://www.bc-racing.co.uk/accessories/bc-damper-boot-inverted-largest-hole-1.html

Some news of the BC factory, they confirmed that the new rear damper design doesn't need a dust cover.

So it appears to not be an error Freddan. ;-)

Okay. Have you installed everything?

Maybe people should re-read this thread, page 4 onwards.
And the lack of response from certain people.

Hi Dlongstaff,

Can you be clear cause i've read the thread and it's difficult to make an opinion.

Apparently the sprint dislocation problem is resolved and it's normal that there is no dust cover.
I'll check the rear damper oftenly and clean/greased them and i will see.
I've a good contact with the seller DC performance and they have check directly with the BC factory. I'm confident with their answers, maybe it's a mistake...

Do you still use the BC kit? Do you still have problem with it?

Thanks for your help!


@freddan : i'll put the car on the lift tomorrow, but i'll have news only in fews weeks cause i unmount the rear subframe too (whiteline ARB and solids bushes)!

I have installed the kit. No major issues. Just the top bolt for the rear damper. A little bit tricky to get it out . I am thinking of making a dust cover. Just need to measure the damper and go to the shop and see what they have in stock.

Solid bushes and rear ARB

From where did you get bushes?
22 or 24 mm ARB?

Re Freddan!

Yes the rear damper is hard to get out!

For the dust cover, there is that, but i don't know if its compatible : http://www.bc-racing.co.uk/accessories.html

The bushes come from Nikolay on ebay (ferrarist on the forum) : Solid rear subframe bushes

The ARB is on 22 mm, 24mm seems to be too rigid for road/track use.

Please read your pm

The coilovers are installed. I went to visit my wheel alignment guy and he only managed to get -1 degree of camber. Toe was set to zero.


This is front right position.

Maybe I have installed them wrong. I can't tell..... I thought I should at least get -1.5 degrees. For me -1 degree is okay. I will most of the time use the car on the road.

For track I think I will use eccentric bolts and set it to -2.5 degrees.

I will get back to you with more info regarding the damping. I just need to drive more before I can say anything

I'll see if I can get a pic of mine, but I'm sure mine isn't set that far across for -1 degree of camber and straight ahead on the toe.

Only -1° degree! I hope it's a mistake... It's less than my precedent FK's.

Here is a pic taken earlier of mine and is set at -1 degree

Thanks Begbie, it seems to be more logical, i don't understand
what is the problem with Fredrik's one.

I'll finish my mounting tomorrow and i'll can test with a camber jauge this week end, i'll let you informed.

Is that front left?

I think I have installed them wrong. Left coilover should be on right side and vice versa.

That's my passenger side or your drivers side

This is what is noticed on the BC's manual :

HEAD LIGHT

LEFT RIGHT

REAR OF THE CAR

The plates sides (L,R) are indicated on mine.

A French friend have this kit and obtain -2° with it.

Great!

Where is the indication? Please take a picture

Haha
There is no indication on my top mount. Thank you Mr. Supplier

Nope, didn't have any on mine either!

The mounts appear to be symmetrical, if that's the case then how can it matter which way round they go?

Ask about this problem to frenchs friends, and they says that the inversion between left and right only modify the caster, not the camber...

Should be correct..

Verdict friday evening, camber gauge is on the way...

Freddan, your pictures don't open for me so I can't see how you have the top mount configured but look at Begbies original picture of the top mount compared to the one 5 posts above, the locking bolts are in a different position and moved closer together.
With them further apart you will only get around 1 deg of negative, move them closer together and you should be able to achieve a better angle.

Jimbo, Freddan's picture has the 2 bolts closer together like in the other photo I posted.

Ah ok, apologies, for some reason it's being blocked over here?

Ok, just used a VPN to look at the picture and it worked, it looks to me as if the locking bolts are spaced around 10 increments apart on Fredans picture, the picture of Begbies installed dampers they bolts are only around 5 increments apart.
Double check this Fredan, it could be a simple fix and no need to remove them from the car.

Jimbo, if you look again, you will see a tiny black dot on the black outer ring. This is the marker used to determine the camber that has been set. On Freddan's his is all the way over on the markings, whereas, mine isn't

Are you sure you have -1 degree? I mean have you been to a wheel alignment shop and checked it?

Final verdict for me with the camber gauge :

Bc kit offers 1.2 degrees maximum (with plate and elongated hole set to the maximum).

Plate offer 0.8° (due to the strut conception) and elongated hole 0.4°(what a joke, why they haven't made it larger?!)

Only good points for these : weight is 6 kilos under the FK silverline X and they're really more comfortable on the road.

So i've just to elongate the hole more or buy some camber bolts. Thank you mister BC!

Kevin i have camber bolts if you need/want them.
I am in Mortagne Sur Gironde at the moment but could post them on Friday next.

Hi Joseph,

It's really kind, i'll keep you in touch. ;-)

Your always welcome to Sauveterre de Guyenne, if want to take the Apero!!! ;-)

No, thought I would just do it by eye Of course I've had it checked. I took it to a shop for setting the toe and camber.

I just don't get it really. Why can't I get more camber
Are there any differences to the shell between 16vt and 20vt......?

I'd be looking at where the hubs mount into the front dampers and be comparing bolt hole position with Begbie, that's the only other place the camber can be adjusted.

Unless you have a slightly shorter wishbone that doesn't quite match OE spec?

I will check the wishbones. I have Febi Bilstein. Changed them in 2007.

So, it’s recently been suggested to me that my combined braking and handling problems could be down to worn shocks. This being the case, I may soon be on the market for a new set to replace my current Bilstein / Eibach set-up and this is my first point of call.

To those that took part in the thread, I’m sure it all makes perfect sense, but I’ve just read through the whole thing and, to be honest, I’m still not entirely sure if this is a ‘go-er’ or not…

I see a number of issues or items that were raised during ‘customer testing’ as follows:
• Springs potentially not adequately secured
• Various spring sizes tested (210mm, 200mm, 180mm) with no confirmation of a ‘final’
• Confusion on whether Dust covers were required or not
• The question of weather proofing was asked but not sufficiently answered
• Left or Right side indication was not always present

Have all of these been resolved?
Have customers that had issues been satisfied with answers or fixes since?
Is the kit essentially ‘plug and play’ or do any other parts need to be fitted at the same time?

Is there a full description of the adjustment possible using these coilovers? I’ve read a lot about variable damping and spring rates independent of ride height but it’s all mixed up in a forum thread. From what I can see on the website linked to, to buy from, this isn’t explained.

It looks like a fantastic piece of kit but I can’t help but feel that the whole thread just… stopped until Freddan came back with his camber issues.

What’s the crack peeps?

I think my kit is a new design cause mine aren't symmetrical like Freddan's... It explain why mine are "left and right" indicated but not why the good setup (which offer the best caster angle) is inverted...

Track day!!

On Friday last week I visited a small track called Kinnekulle Ring. I adjusted the coilovers during three sessions in the morning. My car is setup to work okay on both street and track.

Summary of the day:

Final setup

Front dampers: 9 clicks from hard
Rear dampers: 7 clicks from hard

Front camber: -1 degree
Toe: 0

Rear ARB: 22 mm

Tire: old Toyo R888 225/45 16"

Front springs and damping are okay. More negative camber and more toe out would help a lot.
The rear springs are too soft for track days. I am investigating to see if I can use a harder spring with current damper.

On the road the car is very nice and stable with this setup. Feels solid. I think BC Racing coilovers is far better than Bilstein + Eibach combo.

Before next track day I will buy new tires and maybe add some more negative camber

Youtube - Track day Kinnekulle Ring

Hi Freddan,

I've tested the BC for 2 days and 230 kms on a very good track in France (pole mécanique d'Ales), very technical.

http://www.pole-mecanique.com/portal/portal/polemeca/circuits/vitesse

I'm very please with the set up, and in my opinion rear springs are perfect for trackday.
The under-steering completely disappear and a bit of oversteer appears on big brakings and throttle release in curves.
It make me very happy cause it's perfectly controllable, and help for the car positioning before curves.


Front dampers: 7 clicks from hard
Rear dampers: 8 clicks from hard

Front camber: -2.3 degree
Toe in: 1mm

Rear ARB: 22 mm

Tire: New RSR595 Federal

Hope it can help a bit!

Kévin

Hey guys,

So I am looking to replace my suspension soon. How does the BC setup fair on the road in the real world?

What's the ride quality like on crap UK roads littered with pot holes and speed bumps?

Can the height be adjusted to near standard?

I am currently running on Osrav non-adjustable shocks (uprated 30%)and lowered springs (unknown brand) and the car is too low and too crashy.

I do one or two trackdays a year so would like to adjust to suit when required, but the majority of my driving is around the crappy roads of Oldham so I need a setup that is more comfortable than I currently have.

Stu

hi,
Which set of coilovers is the best? Which kit fits plug & play?
Interested in coilovers with adjustable hardness.

How hardness is controlled from a set of rear shock D2?

Is the camber plate from BC Racing are now changed or still need to drill new holes?

After confusing you with Per at Spa, I had my alignment done last week and it was reset to -1 on both sides, with still plenty of adjustment to go

Haha Spa would be nice. Maybe next year.

I only managed to get -1.2 with coilovers. I had to add the camber bolts for more camber. Now I have -2.5.

I don't understand why you can get so much more camber with just the coilovers. Weard!!!

Wich of the springratings did you buy Freddan?

6kg front and rear.

Any updates with the BC coilovers?

Use them for several trackdays and everything is ok. Very happy with it.
With big rear arb, all silent blocks new, a good geometry setup, RSR595 tyres and a lot of weight loss, my coop is now a very good track car.

Good to hear Kevin I just wanted to make sure there hasn't been anymore issues before bringing mine out of storage onto refresh then onto the track season

And can you tell me the difference?

Old design vs new design (after it was reported that springs could dislocate when the rear end is jacked up). Is this new what you received in the box or are you comparing the two designs?

I can tell you someone doesnt know how to use a tape measure

Hello everyone!

As I want to refresh all my suspension and get a new feel in driving my Coupe, I was wondering if the latest BC Racing Coilover set would make it worth the £100 extra over the KYB alternative consisting of springs front and back and only rear dampers, plus standard Monroe front dampers and all the bits needed to fit them.

The car will be used on roads kind'of all the time, because we do not have racetracks where I live.

Oh and the car is a 16vt and I also plan in the near future, after getting this set or the other parts, to also get a front strut brace bar. Will this be ok? I know the pic is wrong, but it says that it will fit my Coupe.

Yes, I would get the coilovers rather than the KYB kit. The KYB rears are very hard, whereas with the BC's you can adjust how stiff it is.

The kit will fit the 16vt as well so don't worry about it.

What is the difference between the 6/6kg set and the 8/6kg set? And why does it say kg when I suppose it's not the weight of the kit?

If I get a set, would I have to drill new holes somewhere? Is it a straight fit? Or are there tips for fitting properly and getting the full range of adjustments the kit provides?

They are spring rates so should be kg/mm so the 8/6 will be 8kg/mm front and 6kg/mm rear. If its a road car then id go with the softer spring rate 6kg/mm front and rear.

As for drilling holes, i believe the kit is a direct replacement.

Is says "6/6Kg/mm Fiat Coupe 93-00" and "8/6kg/mm Fiat Coupe 93-00" on BC Racings webpage.

http://www.bc-racing.co.uk/applications/...-type-ra-3.html

Ah, yes, now I see the 'mm' after kg, but I didn't get that far the first time around and even if I did, I still wouldn't knew what it would mean and what was the difference.

Thanks for the clarifications!

Are these coilovers TUV certified for the Coupe?

I should think so

Theres nothing on the BC website that mentions TUV.

FK do a konigsport version of their coilover which carries a TUV certificate. They are nice dampers, stainless outer body with koni inserts.

http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/product_info.mhtml?product=240097

Re: TUV from James Crabtree "The BC kits are not TUV approved however the factory is so once you have purchased the kit we can supply a letter stating that the kit is fit for purpose and that it is designed specifically for that application, we can also supply a technical drawing of the kit, this is usually enough for homologation purposes."

I was just about to pull the trigger on a set of coilovers from BC Racing when I decided to see if there are some news on the forum about them.
Now I see the FK brand and I would like know your opinnion on what set would be better and if there is a set better from another brand that I did not heard of.
My budget is £750 and I want the ones that perform best in road conditions and hold out the longest. Hope I'm not asking for the impossible.
If the BC are the best, I will get them, but I don't want to have any regrets.
Right now on the car there are the original springs and dampers from '94,so any would be an improvement, but I only want to change them once.

Do not use FK, they are cheap for a reason.

Fk are ok for there price but there not in the same market as the BC's which are miles above.

At your budget of £750 there is an FK strut available which is good quality

http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/product_info.mhtml?product=240612

Koni adjustable dampers inside a stainless steel strut housing.

FK's main problem was they were under damped which caused a bouncy ride, FK's solution to remove the bouncing was to fit a stiffer spring, completely the wrong thing to do. The coilovers above would be a good option for the coupe, probably still not as good as the BC's as the BC's lower the car without adjusting the pre-load on the spring.

Thank you all for the feedback, it was what I expected and I went ahead and got a pair of BC Racing Coilovers.
I had my eyes on them since a while back, I just wanted to be sure it's the right choice.
I am now waiting their delivery, hopefully this week

The german dealer offer the kits with TÜV

Edit: Sorry, was the K-Sport.. Pretty sure they could deliver it with the BC's as well though

I’ve now got a set of these in the post. Should be fitted next Wednesday

I will be VERY interested to hear your thoughts on these

Now my Coupe is a weekend toy, winter durability is not a concern, which means I can consider coilovers instead of the much more durable Osrav MacPhersons

Well I'll be replacing a billy/eibach set up that's covered over 70,000 miles so I'm expecting a marked improvement.

The main reason I'm changing to these though is because the new wheel/tyre set-up rubs the right rear arch and I think a tired damper is causing it. I figure that, even if it isn't the cause, I can still increase the ride height to fix it while I locate the real culprit... and save some money to change that too!

Nigel, let me know if you will decide to sell your Osrav dampers.

when researching what type of suspension to get for my car, I found a site that had for sale the BC Racing Coilovers. Asked them if they were the latest design and got a positive answer.

After I bought a set from the BC Racing website, just to be sure I get the real deal, that particular site sends me this link, knowing I was interested in a pair of coilovers from BC Racing: DeltaParts

Should I worry?

Well that's a bit of a shocker, il be testing mine tonight then and they can stand by for a complaint

Great... I've got some going on tomorrow

drive home should be fun!

Hmmm... having re-read some of the posts from the earlier days of this thread, I'd urge others to do the same.

I'm going to ask BC directly about a suspicion I have, but I'll be able to do a similar test tomrrow night when mine go on. Will post up any updates.

Yes saw this on Facebook the other night.
Let's hope that everyone has good sets.
A lot of people have been installing these from here recently.
Good luck folks.

I received a call back from BC yesterday having left them an email bringing the above post and video to their attention. The chap (I missed his name as I was in a busy cafe when I answered) assured me that they’d never had any other complaints regarding the kits despite selling “thousands of them all over the world”.

He said that they’d heard from Martin at Deltaparts regarding his concerns over the safety of the kit and that, when they offered to take the kit back and send it to the factory for testing, he declined the offer as he was “taking the car on a track day”…

I’ve since collected my car with the kit fitted and can assure you that, at 5 clicks from hard at the rear, they most definitely DO NOT BOUNCE like the video. I’ve yet to try them on the softer settings but will be attempting to do so tonight and will report on the findings.

It might have been Bren you spoke to. But in all honesty, who is really going to run the dampers on the softest setting? I tried 8 clicks from soft and whilst it was nice, it was just a little too soft for my liking, whereas I run 15 all round. 30 is just silly on the road as you just bounce everywhere in your seat.

I'm on 25 on the rears and it knocks the air out of your lungs every two minutes

Will be trying 15 tonight