wheel alignment & Centred steering - unreasonable?

Hi Guys and Girls, like a bit of advice if possible please.

Just had my tracking done and fitted two new tyres today.

When the guy was doing the tracking and wheel alignment I asked him to make sure the steering wheel was centred also.

He replied saying that he had the steering locked to centre (with the steering lock) but any play in the steering would show up.

Anyway, got in the car and....

The wheel isnt straight

To be fair, its not that far out, a couple of degrees to the left at most, but enough for me to notice, for instance on a long right hand bend (for example the type you get on the motorway) the wheel will still be pointing left, or centre, while the car is going to the right. I'd say instead of pointing at 12 o clock its pointing at 11.56

Ironically, although the tracking is now better and the car pulls completely straight on a flat road the steering wheel is further out than before i had the alignment done.

I'm sure i dont need to tell you how annoying this is, and at speed on the twisties i feel more comfortable
knowing if my hands are in the right place the car is going straight - if that makes sense.

Part of me thinks, I should go back tomorrow and get them to sort it, if they cant ask for my money back so i can take it somewhere who can give me what i want, whereas part of me thinks, hey its a 12 year old fiat and these things happen, that i'm being a bit unreasonable.

I did contemplate taking the steering wheel off and moving it round a spline or two, as the wheels etc are all aligned and thats the most important, isnt it?

What do you think then - Am i being unreasonable, or should i go back?

Cheers all

I would take it back.

I have had this a few times, and they usually sort it the second time around.

Although one place tried to blame the fact the wheel wasn't straight on the rear tracking being wrong. I just laughed and told them that the rear tracking wasn't adjustable on the coupe.

Aye, take it back!! Even though it's a little out, it's still does your head in..

The steering wheel just needs reposition, yes?
So many garages are sloppy..

/\ yes.

Took it back today, i dont think they were too pleased to see it as it looked like they were about to pack up and go home (only just got back)

Its now fine, which of course raises the question of why didnt they do it properly the first time, rather than make up some lame excuse for a sloppy job?

I've experienced this on many occasions with rubbish places. Could be many factors on why this happened.

1) The clamp they use to lock the wheel is crap and moved while they were tweaking the alignment
2) They didn't tighten the clamp down enough
3) They didn't even make sure the wheel was straight before clamping.
4) They didn't even bother clamping!

I think it was No.4

Shame really, as i have used them before with other cars with no problems.

I think they probably meant that if there is any toe etc on the rear (due to less than optimal setup at the rear) that the wheel has to be off-centre to compensate? The fact that that the rear tracking is not adjustable is _why_ they can't do anything about it?

The wheel never has to be off center - you can compensate with the tracking at the front, but this has no bearing on the steering wheel position.

I've had this loads of times - if it's not that far out then it's excusable as there can also be some play in the steering rack.

I have had a lot worse from tracking places:

1. Insisiting that they had to jack my coupe on the sill so that they could get at the camber bolts after I had specifically shown them where the jacking points were, and shown them that they could still get at the bolts.

2. Knackered camber bolts after a place used the wrong setting on a torque gun. They tried to say I had fitted cheap and cheerful camber bolts when they were Eibach ones!

My brother has also recently had major issues with protyre in Alton not locking up a camber bolt on his skyline and then being arsey with him when the car was taken back with over 2 degrees of negative camber on one front - purely because it was a Saturday and they had a lot of cars to get through that were paying...

My current car will only be set up by Elite in Essex or Wheels in Motion - both of which are a fair drive for me. Anywhere else I have been has been staffed by a bunch of wideboys IMO.

Mine has been off centre since I owned it, it's been to two separate places and it's still not straight. I take it that this means that both places are incompetent?!

The first place had a bloke sat in the car holding the steering wheel while the other was adjusting the toe! I went back there twice afterwards to fix it and neither time was the steering wheel straight. The second place did clamp it but clearly not enough.

I was beginning to think it was another worn suspension compenent.

I've taken a car back to the same place three times when the wheel was not straight - when they know that you are not going away until it's right they make a bit more effort!

This thread has spurred me to get this sorted, I've booked it in this afternoon to a place with 4 wheel alignment. It came recommended by a friend who's used them, and trusts them. We shall see!

Mine needs doing but isn't there anywhere good in the surrey/hants/berks area? What about Micheldever tyres, should I try them (not been there in a long while)

do you run camber bolts?

ive heard elite are very good.

Elite are awesome.

Si, I don't have camber bolts, but I do have the slot in the FK coilovers, although this is set up at the extreme end of travel to get the camber/caster settings within spec (I've written down these numbers using Nigel's gauge, but that was just stuck on the brake disc, not exactly on the hub)

FL -0.8 -0.8 FR
FL +2.5 +2.75 FR

(not sure which is which)

Does that make a diffence in your experience as to where I should go?

Setting up camber bolts is tricky as they have to be locked in place - if you dont run them then most places will be able to do alligment for you easily enough as there is very little to adjust on the coupe. Only a fraction of places have the kit to measure camber and caster for starters...

Well what else do they do then, just toe-in and steering wheel centering (or not)? Surely that's not worth paying much for?

yep - that what you're local quick fit would do...

No fancy laser alignment at my garage (I just have the old mirror gauges,does the job! ),but what I usually do is after checking that there are no components needing replaced I take the car out a short drive along the straight road behind the garage so I can see which way the steering wheel is sitting before doing any measuring.

If the tracking is out then I know which side to adjust so I can try and get the steering wheel back to centre.

Baz

Elite did mine years ago but they said they couldn't get it perfect. something to do with the rear wheels, possibly positive camber on the back right IIRC. They feeding me ?

nope - you can't adjust the camber on the rear of a 20VT, so all they can do is tell you that it is a little off.

I don't get this, why can't you adjust it? Something m,ust be out for it to go like this in the first placely surely?

What about camber bolts? Could you use them on the rear to bring things back inline?

Incorrect camber/toe on the back is usually one of 3 things:

A - Worn rear arm bushes
B - Your car has been in a crash
C - Rear subframe bushes are so fubarded that the subframe moves (will probably affect both sides though)

Replacing the arm bushes isn't too tricky for a garage.

Chris

Possibly they are. I also still have the steering wheel not centred after 2 visits to them to get it done.
They say one of the wishbone balljoints is a different size and causing issues....apparently.

The rear is an arm - so camber bolts can't be used...

Possibly they are. I also still have the steering wheel not centred after 2 visits to them to get it done.
They say one of the wishbone balljoints is a different size and causing issues....apparently. [/quote]


I just had mine done and the rear Toe's are out by 0*12LR and 0*14RR and Total Toe 0*25. I'll post the chart. And Not happy with what I have seen this subject.

I'll email people if you like to see the papers.

Tony at Wheels In Motion. Nuff said.

http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/index.php

This place is superb, picked my car up from Oxford new and went home via this place to get it done, excellent. They understand the whole setup thing, it's not just tyre fitters trying some new toy... Been there, seen it and wasted me money.

That looks like an excellent place, what service did you get for how much? They do club days too (just checks, no adjustment) and even have mobile rolling roads turn up too

My RX7 was done there - they know their stuff, and I would recommend them.