Gaz Gold coilover kit

can people please give me there views on gaz as im thinking of getting some thanks

Speak to Matt about the Leda coilovers, they have done some alterations to the length of the dampers which has improved them over the Gaz unit.
Leda and Gaz use the same damper by the way.

I Brought the Gaz road kit which is my first set of coilovers and its been a bit of a journey that has still not ended, not owning coilovers before i have come across a few problems and experiences i was not expecting, which has lead me to do some research and experimenting of my own including three visits to Gaz themselves.
The first problem was the supplied 8" 425lb front springs dislocate on full droop at std ride height(m.o.t fail), I made a number of phone calls/emails about this to Julian at balance motorsport and he said i must have the ride height to low as the test kit never dislocated at std ride height.
So after the endless emails and checking the ride height,the options I was given were to shorten the stroke of the damper or to use a helper spring.
My knowledge about suspension at this point was limited,(still is) and one of the mechanics at Gaz told me that shortening the stroke has "no effect on the travel" and that helper springs "just get in the way" so I took his advice went to Gaz and got the stroke shortened.

So this lead me on to my second problem, which is a definite decrease in traction since switching to the Gaz set up,which kind of makes sense to me now.
The std front spring is a soft long spring with loads of travel, soft springs follow bumps etc better than hard, also when you accelerate and the weight transfer makes the back of the car squat and the nose of the car rise the tyre stays on the ground.(think about when you jack a std car up,how long before the wheel comes of the ground)
The Gaz kit uses a Stiff short 8" front spring which dislocates on full droop, also the rear spring poundage is softer than the front,so when you accelerate the back squats and its easier for the front spring to become unloaded giving less traction.
The stroke reducing modification they did, gave me a total of 2.5" of travel, 2" of droop and 1/2" of bump which means I had 1/2" before I hit the bump stops and 2" before the wheel comes of the floor.
So my initial solution was to take the stroke reducement off (which Gaz charged me £100)and after talking to Jimbo about his setup and researching,i decided to try a dual rate set up with a shorter stiff main spring and a progressive tender spring,the main reasons for this were to give me a softer ride and more overall spring length so there is no dislocation on droop.

This then showed me a third problem, the body of the Gaz damper is so wide that the spring cup platform used to separate the two springs,is so close to the threaded part of the damper it rubs away at the thread when you hit bumps! it is impossible for the cup sizes to be bigger as they have to hold the 2.5"spring, so you have to use a single spring or a long main and a short helper so the platform is not near the threaded body.

The fourth is the balance motorsport caster top mount bearings, they have intermitantly knocked after a few months of owning them, Barbz has also confirmed there is play in them and when he was doing my geometry it was changing due to the play in the bearings, granted Julian did say i could return them to be looked at, but because the knock is intermitant i have never got round to doing it, but I would say there is a question mark over the quality/longevity of the bearings.
also one of the benefits of more caster is the more lock you apply the more camber you get, meaning you don't have to run to much static camber, but Barbz could only just get it into negative camber, now I don't know if its a problem with my camber bolts or the design of the strut, I have not tried other camber bolts, another thing is some people use the bravo top mounts for coilovers,to give a softer ride but barbz implied the rod on the Gaz is to big to fit through the hole in the bravo top mounts.

My fifth point is the ride/handling, some of this is my personal view, but what I wanted from this kit when i first brought it was a set of coilovers that was at std height (so I could run a lower brace without hitting speed bumps/grounding out on country roads) which is stiff enough not to have to much body roll/alter the geometry but still supple enough to blast down country roads,then the dampers could be turned up for track days.
Don't get me wrong I new the ride would be firm,but in my opinion this setup is FAR to stiff for the road,you get lots of wheel spin in lower gears especially in the wet and pot holes etc feel like you have no suspension at all,you would definitely be faster down bumpy/wet roads on std suspension, also if you turn the damper down to make the ride better you get so much bounce and float in dips you have to slow down.
The positives are it handles very flat with little roll and on ultra smooth roads/track and with sticky rubber it would be good, but it its meant to be a road/track kit and they do a full track kit already.

The Sixth point is that other makes of coilover come with adjustable rear spring conversion platforms,so you can change the height and poundage of the rear springs.
The Gaz kit comes with a fixed std style springs so you cant change rear corner weights and if you want to change the rear spring rates you cant just pick generic ones out of a catalouge you have to get them specially made.

Also its worth mentioning that they don't come with rod covers so they are exposed to the elements,Gaz claim they have a special seal that cleans the rod to stop it getting pitted etc, Nigel mentioned some routinely service you should carry out on them if your using them on the road but as he said "its hardly a fit and forget item",and some of my "hard plating" round the damper body were there bolted on is coming off already.

So were am i at now? well I have spent to much money to give up, and after looking on the net and talking to people the common opinion with Fwd cars is you want a softer front and a stiff rear,this gives you traction and stops the weight transfer when you accelerate, the same theory applies to arb's stiff rear soft front.
Now the problem with this is if you tip the balance to far,you end up with lots of lift off oversteer, so i have gone with caution and only gone 25lb softer on the front, some people suggest 100lb softer on track spec .
Going softer also means you can run a longer spring with out raising the ride height this calculator is very usefull spring calculator
So now I have kept the supplied 375lb rear and added a single 9" 350lb front,which has improved the car no end,it is still very flat and on b roads it feels like the suspension actually works now, also there is loads of grip,chucking it into round about's you have to go in very deep to get it to understeer.
I have only driven it spiritedly on the road not on track but it feels very neutral with no real sign of lift off oversteer but with good turn in,this is with a std front arb and a 22mm rear arb, Barbz also commented on how good the car felt and how neutral it was.
But for me I think it could go softer, the ride is still very firm and i am still looking for more traction from the front, the dampers are very stiff and I think I would rather have even softer longer springs and turn up the dampers,i'm still only on about 6 out of 15 clicks,I am happy to stick with the front to rear ratio but drop the poundage evenly to a 10" 300lb front and 325lb rear.

So for me personally the kit is not finished and not right for a road kit, but there are option's round the problems,you can the change spring rates to suit (rear more difficult) also you can buy dust covers for the pistons from demon tweeks, Barbz said he can get the top mounts machined with higher quality bearings and also machine the damper holes using special washers for more camber.
If asked I would not buy the kit again,I would buy the Ozravs either with std springs and uprated arb's or Eibach springs and get the front subframe welded so you don't have to run a lower brace.

Also like Jimbo say's if you really want a coilover look at the leda,they let Jimbo swap spring rates untill he was happy.

for me leda is the only option for coilovers on coupe

FKs just bounce on uneven roads and are underdampered

few years ago when Jimbo first got his i spoke to him about them and many other suspension setups . as he has tryed most at his cost

but unfortunately for me at time . i had sent them topmounts and more to build my leda coilovers . and they went bust in middle of it .luckly i got all my stuff back but had to prove it was mine to liquidators to get it back

so ive just waited for a good setup to come up. i was intreseted in Gaz but wasnt to sure on them as at time no one had any

also like the blance website says they copyied leda design or like. they claim its cheaper but its more or less same price i was quoted by leda

but since then leda are back trading again and will get some from them . as Jimbo and leda seemed to put alot of effort in to the coilovers

1/2" of bounce thats very small travel, surely Gaz should have shortend the body and reduced the droop this would have maintained some decent bounce without hitting the bump which rockets the spring rate. I have similar issues with my AST coildovers, too much droop and bodies too long, but I give it to AST they sold them with tender springs and cups that didnt hit the threads plus the entire underside bearing of the top mounts have a rubber boot.

I had the first GAZ kit for the coupe, and spent a lot of time with Julian at BMS working on it.

You MUST use a custom top mount - otherwise the spring wont locate properly on the front. I had a set of top mounts where you had to grind away some metal to fit them - the design has obviously changed since then, but I had no issues with mine.

You have to have stiff springs on the back - it will make it oversteerish, but this was what I wanted the car to do, so I had no problem with this.

I can't remember the spring rates that I had, but I'm sure that Julian has them recorded if you ask him (mnetion Simon with the green 20VT). Nobby omn here has my old Gaz kit, and he has been very happy with it.

You also have to have the damping turned up, at least 10 on the front, and 15 on the rear (my rears went up to 25), otherwise you will just bounce everywhere on the road.

Getting negative camber is fine - you may have to slot the damper to do it though.

I've mentioned before that on this forum that if you go for coilovers you should have them setup for track or very smooth roads. If you want to go fast on country road then Bilstein / eibach combo is the better option - you can't have a setup that does everything, you will always have some form of compromise.

anything got to be better then FK coilovers , some times i think im back in friends old lowrider

its not so much uneven roads but rise and dips just send them off in to bounce mode. you have to back off i started to feel sea sick or some thing like that

for me im not that interested in tuning or tracking my car.
but do like to have good brakes ,suspension and tyres
i dont drive quick on crap roads anyway just the FKs caught me out
i would like to have the adjusment of height on front that coilovers give as i normaly run 8.5x18 azev c and they are so heavy . and thought well made suspension would deal with it better or am i wrong there?

am thinking of sticking with the 16s or using a set of 17in BBS i got

17's will give you a better ride than 18's.

If you are not interested in tracking the car then bilstein eibachs combo is your best bet. FK's are bloody awful - must be very bad with 18's.

Coilovers do not mean that the car will magically handle like a dream in any situation - there is still a spring and a damper invloved....not matter how well they are made (or not as can be the case).

As far as the ride height goes you want to set it up and then get the tracking done - any adjustments will throw the tracking out. A 2cm drop on all four corners is best for looks and handling compromise. Excessively dropping the front end makes the handling worse if you corner hard.

Yep - I have Subas original GAZ kit.

Haven't really had any problems with it. One thing worth noting re the top mounts. They could do with some sort of cover as the are in the right position to get caked in crud or water. I've been removing my suspension once every 6-9 months and giving it a ruddy good clean. Remember to grease the bearings on the top mounts too.

I'm totally happy with my suspension set up now. Front and rear ARBS, Gaz kit & top mounts, poly bush wishbones, solid rear subframe mounts. I've still to fit a seam welded front subframe too.

I have contemplating lowering it a little more which would cause some problems namely the rear height adjustability (or lack of). I've also got some 17" wheels that will be going on shortly and this should alter the stance of the coupe.

Chris

suba im fully aware that coilovers dont mean the car will handle like magic. also that 18s on any setup is bad at the best but look so good

but i just want quailty suspension the FKs are not .

ive had rubbing on rears without it being lowered with 18s fitted, cant have no people in rear too . this i expect is due to soft standard suspension

i dont want a fixed -35 drop on front so coilovers only option i know of

i respect your opinion like i do Jimbos, as seem the pair of you have first hand experince of have these coilovers setups made.

gents - just taking this opportunity to remind you about the Osravs - I can adjust my ride from too-soft (bit bouncy) to almost solid and I don't have to worry about corrosion or helper springs or knackered top mounts

Sure, they are expensive for a MacPherson setup, but the ride quality is sublime, as well as very controlled

yes Osravs where my 2nd choice after ledas , didnt know they where adjustable though

Yes - adjustable damping (compression and rebound combined, rather than separate adjustment)

No ride height adjustment though - choose your ride height by choosing your springs - I run Eibach (about -25mm)

i thought the Eibach where -35mm for some reason
i could live with -25mm

this may open a can of worms here a big one

but been reading though old suspension posts and came across D2 they seem cheap compared to Leda/Gaz and have topmounts included. are this ment to be better quailty then FK i would hope so as they are adjustable .

i only need fronts and Osravs with new springs arent cheap ,well none of it is really
but i could have set of front ledas made for same sort of money

D2 won't last long on our salty roads - I was told I'd need to strip and clean them every few thousand miles

I needed a "fit & forget" solution, so the Osravs were a no-brainer

You're welcome to have a ride in mine if you're ever in the Midlands

cheers Nigel may take you up on offer if up your way

years ago went out in Skins coupe with the FKs fitted . dont get me wrong it was good he was throwing it round some of the corners. but the roads where quite nice and smooth by him

in Bristol the road can be shocking .around my house its not even tarmac but big slabs of concrete , makes it fun in the ice or wet not

My post was to out line my experience with the kit, and while a lot of things are not problems you cant over come,I thought future purchasers would like to know my Personal experience.
My first problem with the springs dislocating was also unexpected by Julian and at first he was insisting I had the ride height wrong,which say's to me the kit has not been fully tested, and in the future they need to supply a helper spring or a longer spring with every kit. Getting the stroke restricted was my first mistake,which would have been solved by a longer spring/helper.

I would have thought Julian would have supplied me the same kit Suba helped developed,i.e 425lb front spring 375lb rear spring,when I had the 425lb springs on the front I tried turning the dampers up to 9 on the front which does stop the floating,but the ride like this for me is just unbearable on the road.
Some where in my above post I should have mentioned "I know suspension is a compromise" but for me the above spring rates with these dampers are to hard for the road, and I would bet most people would not put up with the ride.
For me a softer longer spring works better, this way you can use more of the damper, turning the damper up for trackdays or down for day to day driving, giving you more of a "compromise" after all Gaz supply's a full trackday kit.

Suba, I to have the caster top mounts where you have to take some of the turret away,I don't have a problem with the top mount's as such, but the fact is the bearing's have play in them which happened within months,like Nobby said some kind of protection from the underside would be good,I also bet most people would not be prepared to take there suspension of to clean it every 6 months!

How many other "road kit's" have been sold? I know of mine and Suba's/Nobby's so it can be hardly be called a tried and tested product, I am not saying the kit is rubbish but I do think some area's need some work,and while Suba/Nobby is happy with the kit other people might find the kit/spring rate's to much of a "compromise".

jonone

i guess this is the trouble/teething problems with havin a custom made coilover setup made. you have to work out what way to go to improve

but does seem odd they changed the design over the design that suba was involed in

and yes it also seem alot is based on peoples opinions of how they like it or not. trial and error seems to be common on coupes with suspension

way i see it not that im expert or have driven most of these setups is. but on all the advice and reading i have done

1.leda
2.gaz
3.kw 3a. Osravs ,for non coilover but still have some adj 3b.billies tried and tested by many happy people
4.D2 due to not good for our climate. would like to think they place higher
5.FK

for sure a lot depends on price and if you want height/rebound adjustment and COMPROMISE

Other users of the Gaz coilovers are :

Sparco - Full track kit (track only coupe)
Anthrax - Full track kit, used on the road

might sound a bit silly but can you use the standard top mounts with the gaz gold coilovers

nope, balance motorsport's seem to be the only option.

I would count myself out of this post guys other than to say sometimes there is not a universal fitment for everyone's liking, you have to tweek stuff to suit your own needs. If you want truly bespoke kit then i can tell you from experience it will not be cheap. I have spent well over £5k on my suspension and it's still not quite there.

What i will say is though the Gaz kit is of the highest quality and i have had no cmplaints or failures as yet.

I have a set of custom top mounts(my first set) which are made for the Gaz kit and fit the road kit as they are a standard fitment if anyone wants them cheap. They need new bearings but that's all. Each set ends up costing £250 and i've had quite a few sets. I'd still like more caster but space is a limiting factor in the coupe.

Exactly Sparco, I found the front spring's didn't work for me, and with the longer 350lb spring's i am much happier,the car is starting to feel really good!
It's interesting to hear your top mounts need new bearings,some people have suggested to me that solid top mounts don't work on the road as they constantly get knocked out!

Jonone they only need new bearings as we used the originals in another set of mounts to save buying them again.

My top mounts are fine. This is a spare set which are more standard in set-up but will suit a road car.