Better ride/handling without strut brace??

well finally have my car back after its 2nd rebuild, during the rebuild the garage chose to remove the strut brace, dunno why?
anyway i'm now of the thinking that i prefer the way it drives without the brace??
i wouldn't say it handles BETTER... But Nicer!
still handles well as i have adjustable konis all round, not pushing it though as i'm still running in but i've been carrying enough speed into islands to notice the change in handling!

what i'm trying to assertane is, is it possible for my car to handle as well without the brace, or is it "guaranteed" to handle better with it applied?? If so it'll go back on!

nick

Top or bottom brace?

A top brace isn't an ultimate handling aid, it helps reduce flex in the two suspension towers so possibly keeping the geometry more accurate, but honestly, how much do they flex in the first place?

Another placebo effect?

sorry..... I was talking about TOP brace!
i've recently bought a bottom brace which i'm yet to fit... For some reason i was under the impression the bottom brace should only be fitted in conjunction with top brace??

so will handling improve more by fitting the bottom brace, i'm also on the look out for rear arb as most people rave about them on here... Basically want the best handling possible without going to coilovers??

nick

I've fitted both to my standard car and it felt much more "pointy" afterwards and dialed out a lot of understeer. I'm a firm believer in the benefits of braces!

Coilovers, there's another myth!

A coilover doesn't offer you anything a well selected spring and damper can.
The only advantage of a coilover and it is the only advantage, is the selection of springs available.
Great if you're building a track car, not great for a road car!
Trust me, I've been down this road, buy a good quality spring like Eibach and a good damper like OSRAV, someone has already done all the work and selected the best spring rate and damping rates for you, all you need to do is fit them and smile.

A lower brace is the same as a top brace, it just keeps the geometry more accurate when the suspension is under load, will work better if you have uprated bushes in your suspension, not as good with standard bushes as these will still give movement.

As for dialing out "a lot" of understeer, again, is that a placebo effect? You've spent £100 so you want to feel something? Not having a go here, I have a strut brace too but I'm unsure as to how much it actually adds to the chassis?

A rear ARB is a good option for reducing understeer, well worth the money but stick to a sensible sized one, the larger one is a PITA to fit.

I'm certainly not the only person who felt a difference with the strut braces fitted. 1 link of many.

Jimbo you are welcome to come and try my car with and without the braces (i'll do the fitting) and then you can decide whether it's the placebo effect. I certainly don't think that it is.

Well, not quite. You also have adjustable ride hide as well, the unit is thinner, so if you like fitting big / wide wheels, you have better chance of not fouling on the shock absorber, majority of coilovers allow you to adjust the camber without the need for a camber bolt.

</pedantic finished>

Another reason i went for the gaz setup is i can run std ride height but with up-rated springs and dampers,this will not appeal to everyone,but i cant live with a lowerd car and a lower brace.

I agree with Jimbo,for 90% of people Osrav's with Eibach's or if you want the ride height and better ride Osrav's and standard spring's is the way to go!

Burn the heretic!!!!!

Seriously the shell does flex (Try and open/close your doors when the cars jacked up) the strut braces definitely add to the rigidity of the whole shell, so for me they are well worthwile.

The coilover damper is the same diameter as a standard fiat damper, the spring is a smaller diameter yes I agree but the wheel isn't sat next to the spring on a lowered coupe, the lower spring platform is usually above the wheel so tyre width is still limited by the damper.

Some coilovers come with slotted hub mountings to adjust camber, I had to ask for it on the leda's but it's still not an easy job to set the camber accurately.

Ride height is adjustable but how many time have I adjusted it in the past 4 years, I think about once if I'm honest.

As I said, it's a myth that coilovers are better for handling, you'll get just as good a result out of a set of OSRAVs and some Eibachs.

as for the braces, having gone from a standard 20vt with no brace to my current set-up with upper brace, lower brace, dedra arb and rear 22mm whiteline arb, this car handles extremely well in my opinion. belting around donington it felt very planted and stable, and the weakpoint was the tyres - i never felt that understeer was much of an issue, maybe i wasn't trying hard enough

The rear anti-roll bar will be the major player there Proccy, it really helps reduce understeer.

Stiffer rear, softer front will reduce understeer and the opposite will reduce oversteer.

but what is a coupe more prone to..... Under or over steer?
may just fit the bottom brace and rear arb and see what the affects are!

nick

A coupe is prone to understeer as around 70% of the weight is over the front wheels.

I'd go with a top brace before the lower one, the subframe at the bottom is quite a big bit of kit and less likely to flex than the top mounts are.

understeer!

I have stiffer springs on the rear than the front as well as a rear arb!

Maybe someone will be curious to know that Coup engine&gearbox combo weights same as Alfa 156 2.5 V6 engine......i'd measured the distance between this two suspension towers before remove the engine, and car on the ground.......then removed engine and gearbox for engine swap.....car was jacked up under the front subframe....measured again......almost 4mm difference....