Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs)

Hi everyone,

Got the coupe on the rollers at Perfect Touch recently. Mods at the time:

Panel Filter
Pace SMIC
Peco Catback
Baileys Recirc
GTECH 1
PRV
Autometer Pro-Sport Boost Gauge

Rog @ PF set the PRV to a smidgen under 16psi for me (confirmed on Autometer Gauge). 16psi ~= 1.1bar.

Here are the results.

Power/Torque:

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff259/warnysouth/rollers1.jpg

AFR:

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff259/warnysouth/rollers2.jpg

Rob said that he thought the fueling was spot-on and that the lack of power is probably down to the ECU retarding the ignition. At the time I was running 90% BP Ultimate, and 10% 95RON. I was annoyed, as I had intentionally filled up with the BP fuel! I had no idea it was considered 'inferior super unleaded'. He said I could expect up to another 25-30bhp with 99RON or such like. Graph says he used 4th, although he told me he used 3rd?

I didn't get a boost graph as Rob used the gauge in the car.

Was pretty happy with PT, Rob was very reassuring and answered all my questions. He also took note that I did not wanted him to be extra careful with her!

Any thoughts/comments on the results? Looks pretty similar to Austin's results I thought.

Thanks,

W

Hi,

Your results look very close to mine in Power/Torque although your AFR looks much better.

I was running 95Ron at the time and I'm wondering if the gtec map switches over to the higher fuelling map at a certain boost? e.g 1.05 could be on the 'leaner' map whereas 1.1 Bar could be the 'Richer Map' if that makes any sense.

Have you felt any differecnce now you are running 99ron?

Austin

I'm sure there are people on here that will be able to comment on your question about the ECU switching maps.

Maybe GrahamL/Rob(PT) etc might be so kind as to tell us more about how it all works.

As for the 99RON issue. Its very hard to say. Maybe a bit of difference yes. But after my split hose the other day I've been relucant to push the car hard. I would like to go back to PT after doing the fuel pump mod and with 99RON, but they are quite expensive and its a long way away.

Cheers

W

you should not use 95 ron fuel with g-tech chips

I know. Thats why i filled up with BP Ultimate

sorry warnysouth not aimed at you, this has come up a few times now, i just dont understand why people spend money on mods to increase power, then use low ron fuel

jimo- i didn't think it was advised to on the g-tech 1 either

As far as I know the gtech i can run on either 95 or greater, the gtech ii changes the advance so must be run on better than 95.

But if I had a coupe I would run on better than 95 even with no chip.

i stand corrected jimo, but i would never use 95 ron fuel either

I'm not convinced I would see any difference with 99RON over the BP Ultimate 97.

It might be that my engine, being quite old and been round the block a bit, is just a bit down on power, and 220bhp is all I'm going to get. The assumption that the ECU is retarding the ignition, is just that, an assumption (unless anyone can explain how to verify it)?

Quite happy with that btw, and dont want to waste more money finding out

just putting higher ron fuel in doesn't make your car faster, it just means you can run more advance (from a chip or live map) which = more power

Exactly. But I have no way of telling whether the 99 over the BP ultimate which actually yield any more ignition advance. Its an expensive question to answer

99 ron is the best for mapping & will give the best results.
it's hard to tell how much, maybe 5-10 bhp

Isn't v power cheaper fuel anyway to the bp ulticrap. I have only ever put v power in mine as i get better mpg, so even though it costs more at the pump i go further on it so save money.
I remember once putting the bp in my bravo and it really was poor, not as lively and drank it like no tomorrow.

You should try some v power scott, i think you will find it drives alot better and might help your ignition advance even though you can't check it.

Ash

Hi Ash,

Well I'm running Tesco's 99 RON at the moment. Car feels very quick (1st gear is manic). Not sure how MPG is doing. Need to do a full tank.

Cheers,

W

i agree with ash, i was mapped at PT with v power & used it before the the mapping

I haven't tried tesco 99 ron as i can't get it round me, but should be about the same as v power i should think, The car should start to get better and better as it starts to run the better fuel.

Joel i have just been looking at your rr session, i have mine in afew weeks, you got nice power and torque from the ulrtaspool, its not that much different to the gtir but slightly better spool, hope i get similar power as yours.

Ash

Well according to PT its up to 7 or 8 bhp per degree of ignition retardation, and the ECU can potentially pull it back by 3 or 4 degrees. So thats 21-32bhp potentially.

So then you would be running the normal gtec 1 power of about 250. Bess keep putting it in, more power

Well I'm not using the BP stuff anymoe, terrible MPG on that and Im not using 95 , so its v-power or 99 for me! . Always suspected it but assumed that if it were rubbish, they wouldnt be able to market it in the way they do?

mine runs best on tesco 99ron, even better than v-power for mine.
i remember i think it was 5th gear that did a test of fuels and they used a standard scooby wrx, the difference between the 95ron and the higher octane, can't remember if it was optimax or v-power, think it was optimax, was about 30bhp!!!
that was on a standard wrx!!

but as in my other post below, the impreza has an ecu that can adapt to the different fuel. The 16vt and 20vt's can not do this!!

ash

i was expecting slightly better spool & slightly better top end from the ultraspool, but i have no complaints how it drives on the rd, it just pulls & pulls & is very smooth.

if you look on my graph, the temps were quite high on my run,i'm going for another rr soon & i think i will hit over 300bhp.

good luck with your rr session,are you just having a power run, or being mapped?
look forward to seeing your results

Yes, but the ECU can select whether to retard the ignition or not depending on whether the knock sensor is triggered. So in my case, with the gtech 1, the ECU *might* be pulling the timing back as its too aggressive for this fuel. If I switch to 99 RON, it might not retard it so much, and then I got more power no?

Is the GTECH 1 only a modified fuel table or does it have a modified ignition table too?

Thanks

W

The Gtec 1 is designed to run on the std ignition and run on 95RON, so putting in 99RON and running a Gtec 1 is not going to yield you any more power.

The knock system works but detecting knock / pink and will retard the timing by X degrees for X amount of engine revolutions, then it will go back to the orignal ignition advance and carry on as normal, until it detects knock / pink again and repeats the above process.

OK thanks Begbie. So that's it then, 220bhp is my lot for this boost pressure (thats another thing - I wish they had given me a boost graph - maybe the 16psi on my gauge is only 15psi - that would lose me a few horses no?). In Austin's case he might get more when he sorts his lean mixture out though correct?

Cheers

W

Yeh joel it looked like it was hot there 25 degrees. I am sure now its been running like it for a while and colder conditions it will get over 300 easy.

I am just going for a power run and a fueling check. But hoping for anything around 270 for now, until its live mapped.

Ash

Oi! Stop Hijacking my thread!

Haha sorry, it is about tuning though

Ash

Warnysouth,

I just noticed that your torque (although is very slightly less than mine comes hits peak another 500rpm on from mine. I wonder why that is?

Austin

Warny - Why did you not go for 1.2 bar of boost? That is what the gtec is designed to do, and you were at the rolling road so could have checked the fuelling pretty easily...

Personally I think you will notice pretty much naff all difference if you run a higher ron fuel on a car that is not mapped. You might gain a bit - but I dont think you'll notice it on the road.

Because I didnt want to push the car too hard. I guess my guage could be a bit out, and I could be running less than 1.1bar. Its a shame that PT didnt give me a boost graph. Especially as they charge £110 which is twice as much as the Rolling Road near me (Surrey Rolling Road).

How much extra power do you guys think 0.1 bar (~1.5psi) equates to?

Cheers

W

More than likely that boost is only gonna be held over midrange, so its extra torque... 5-10lb/ft on your setup?

Ross

Around 10 bhp IMO.