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Brake pads recommendations please? #1635449
11/09/2019 18:36
11/09/2019 18:36
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 59
Sheffield, uk
M
Merlin_Cat Offline OP
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Sheffield, uk

Hello all,

I’ve got an R reg 2 litre, 20v turbo and I’ve got horrible squeaky front brakes. Is there any particular brands anyone would recommend please?

I’m taking the car on a 3,000 mile round trip to Southrrn Spain shortly so am planning to change the pads next week.

Thanks

Re: Brake pads recommendations please? [Re: Merlin_Cat] #1635450
11/09/2019 19:16
11/09/2019 19:16
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,906
Pothole City
GrahamL Offline
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GrahamL  Offline
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Pothole City
Genuine Fiat pads... nothing else has the double chamfer design specifically for reducing squeal, eg. :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-COU...E-Front-Brake-Pads-77362227/163633388524

You could even try a Fiat dealer, I think we found a few years back that they've moved the coupe pads to some kind of "vintage" range and so had heavily discounted the price.

Re: Brake pads recommendations please? [Re: GrahamL] #1635451
11/09/2019 19:57
11/09/2019 19:57
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 542
Ayrshire
ScouseCoupe Offline
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Ayrshire
Originally Posted by GrahamL
Genuine Fiat pads... nothing else has the double chamfer design specifically for reducing squeal, eg. :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-COU...E-Front-Brake-Pads-77362227/163633388524

You could even try a Fiat dealer, I think we found a few years back that they've moved the coupe pads to some kind of "vintage" range and so had heavily discounted the price.


Or Magneti Marelli which are same as the Fiat ones. Part number 363916060107. Normally around £40 to £50 a set.


1999 Rosso Corsa 20VT ( Standard & Stock )
Re: Brake pads recommendations please? [Re: Merlin_Cat] #1635458
11/09/2019 21:54
11/09/2019 21:54
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,906
Pothole City
GrahamL Offline
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GrahamL  Offline
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Pothole City
The Magneti Marelli pads I've seen that claim to be "OEM" spec. for the coupe don't have the unique chamfer that's present on the proper Fiat pads, which is specifically designed to reduce squeal.

Re: Brake pads recommendations please? [Re: Merlin_Cat] #1635459
11/09/2019 22:16
11/09/2019 22:16
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,715
Lightwater, Surrey UK
DaveG Offline
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DaveG  Offline
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Posts: 7,715
Lightwater, Surrey UK
Are you sure about that Graham? Here's a pic of a set of MM pads that I have, Fiat p/n 71770978 from their "value" range. The pads have the chamfered edge, but as the pads wear, that chamfer will disappear? Or do you mean some other chamfer?

I get horrendous squeal from the brembos on my Plus under light braking (but not with harsh braking, but I tend not to do that for fear of being rear-ended). I was told it was due to non-OE discs, so I got a proper (drilled) OE set...still the same with 2 different pad makes. I haven't tried the MMs yet because of the normal corrosion under the pad guides requiring some filing/grinding down of the edge of the pads before they will fit. By contrast, my Porto 20vt brakes are completely silent, but that has refurbed brembos (so that pads fit properly) and EBC YellowStuff pads. I think the squealing is a combination of the pad guide corrosion causing the tight fit of pads, and pad make - with harder pads making the most noise. But as ever, everyone's experience seems to differ...

Attached Files
20190911_225937.jpg (217 downloads)

1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: Brake pads recommendations please? [Re: Merlin_Cat] #1635461
11/09/2019 22:27
11/09/2019 22:27
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 59
Sheffield, uk
M
Merlin_Cat Offline OP
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Merlin_Cat  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 59
Sheffield, uk
Thanks for your replies. Mine has the brembo callipers and is also fine when braking at speed but awful in town.

I think the discs would be the proper ones as my dad bought the car new and then I’ve had it since he’s not allowed to drive any more - due to age

Re: Brake pads recommendations please? [Re: Merlin_Cat] #1635462
11/09/2019 22:32
11/09/2019 22:32
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,715
Lightwater, Surrey UK
DaveG Offline
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DaveG  Offline
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Lightwater, Surrey UK
Checking the Fiat OE pads, they seem to have different chamfers on each side of the same pad? Or just a trick of the light? Reagrdless, the wearing of the pad means the chamfers will disappear over time, so is the fix to periodically remove the pads and create your own chamfers? Or is it to do with the padding material on the back side...?


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: Brake pads recommendations please? [Re: Merlin_Cat] #1635464
11/09/2019 23:55
11/09/2019 23:55
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,544
Auld Reekie
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Auld Reekie
The chap I always used to take my 20vt to said the squeal was due to the eradication of asbestos used in the pad. The replacement material surfacing wore off it would often produce the annoying squeal.

When I kept moaning at him about it he stopped using Delphi pads and put in a set of Ferodo - they've been fine ever since!


BumbleBee back:)
Re: Brake pads recommendations please? [Re: Merlin_Cat] #1635471
12/09/2019 07:23
12/09/2019 07:23
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,906
Pothole City
GrahamL Offline
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Yes the Fiat pads have a different chamfer on each edge, with a unique diagonal chamfer on one side specifically to stop the squeal and it works. They need to be fitted a specific way around due to this also, so there are arrows pointing upwards on rear of each pad.

click to enlarge

I've found the type of discs don't make much if any difference to the squeal. Shims or anti-squeal compound on the rear of the pads help a bit (maybe 20% reduction) but by far the biggest improvement (90% reduction) is using those specific Fiat pads due to the unique chamfer design shifting the vibration force along that diagonal edge.

Re: Brake pads recommendations please? [Re: Merlin_Cat] #1635472
12/09/2019 09:00
12/09/2019 09:00
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,715
Lightwater, Surrey UK
DaveG Offline
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Lightwater, Surrey UK
The official brembo pads (P 23 074) look much like the MM pads with equal chamfers both sides and no directional arrow...click to enlarge


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: Brake pads recommendations please? [Re: Merlin_Cat] #1635473
12/09/2019 09:23
12/09/2019 09:23
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,580
Melbourne, Australia
Scuderia Offline
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Melbourne, Australia
I like TRW pads as OEM replacements. Pickings are slim in Australia so I had to match up GDB1519 listed for 147 GTA. I use these as road pads, they do not have the bite of race pads however they are OK on a track, never had any fade or squeaking.

picture

Re: Brake pads recommendations please? [Re: Merlin_Cat] #1635474
12/09/2019 09:44
12/09/2019 09:44
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,906
Pothole City
GrahamL Offline
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Pothole City
Actually that direction arrow on the rear of the Fiat pads may refer to the direction of rotation of the disc, so should be pointing down rather than up on the coupe as the caliper is at the front of the wheel, but it's explained in the booklet that comes in the box anyway.

Re: Brake pads recommendations please? [Re: Merlin_Cat] #1635477
12/09/2019 10:15
12/09/2019 10:15
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,715
Lightwater, Surrey UK
DaveG Offline
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Lightwater, Surrey UK
And those TRW pads show yet another chamfer variation, perhaps it's the "angled" chamfer that is the key?


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: Brake pads recommendations please? [Re: Merlin_Cat] #1635479
12/09/2019 11:17
12/09/2019 11:17
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,906
Pothole City
GrahamL Offline
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GrahamL  Offline
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Pothole City
Yes it's the diagonal chamfer that does it... because the brake pistons are different sizes the force presumably isn't completely even against the back of the pad so with light braking one edge of the pad can vibrate against the disc more than the other edge and that causes the squeal. With hard braking both edges are tighter against the disc so no vibration/squeal. Making the chamfer diagonal would mean a much smaller contact area for the vibration spot, so less squeal.

The pad material also plays a role, the slightly softer material makes less squeal but more brake dust, harder material more squeal but less dust. I've tried loads of combinations of discs and pads over the years (Tarox, Mintex, Pagid, Brembo, Fiat you name it) and by *far* the best way to reduce squeal is using those original Fiat pads with any type of discs, especially if the pad guides aren't completely even due to corrosion as is the case on nearly all coupes now.

Even with perfect calipers that allow the pads to fit without any grinding of the edges you can still get horrendous squeal if using the "wrong" pads. I had brand new brembo calipers fitted to my first coupe after the fiat dealer scraped the hell out of the original ones when fitting my replacement engine and even with those calipers and shims + anti squeal compound I was still getting squeal when using some combinations of 3rd party discs + pads.

Re: Brake pads recommendations please? [Re: GrahamL] #1635492
12/09/2019 16:37
12/09/2019 16:37
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,881
SW London
suba Offline
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I found another way of curing it.... give the brakes an utter hammering for a good 5 - 10 mins. That usually did the job for about a week or so! ;-)


Dave - be really careful with EBC Yellows - I've had a set crumble to bits when I took them out - and pad coming away from plate also.... might have just had a bad batch, but I'll never buy another set of EBC's again after that.


Rotary fun - 370 bhp per ton. GT30's are small you know?!??!?!?!
Re: Brake pads recommendations please? [Re: GrahamL] #1635494
12/09/2019 16:48
12/09/2019 16:48
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 542
Ayrshire
ScouseCoupe Offline
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Ayrshire
Originally Posted by GrahamL
The Magneti Marelli pads I've seen that claim to be "OEM" spec. for the coupe don't have the unique chamfer that's present on the proper Fiat pads, which is specifically designed to reduce squeal.


Well I get zero squeal from the MM pads in all types of driving. They last well too so far.


1999 Rosso Corsa 20VT ( Standard & Stock )
Re: Brake pads recommendations please? [Re: Merlin_Cat] #1635616
18/09/2019 17:21
18/09/2019 17:21
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,409
Kent
Submariner Offline
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Kent
I've had OE, MM, Brembo, Mintex etc. Found that on fitting most if not all have squealed some more than others; but this goes away after some mileage, use MTech discs.

Re: Brake pads recommendations please? [Re: Merlin_Cat] #1635619
18/09/2019 18:49
18/09/2019 18:49
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 59
Sheffield, uk
M
Merlin_Cat Offline OP
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Sheffield, uk
Good evening, thanks for all the responses. I’ve been doing some research but am a bit confused. When I’m looking should I be looking at Fiat brake pads, or Brembo brake pads?

I’ve looked for Fiat dealerships but all the ones I’ve contacted don’t do spares and are really just car sales.

Re: Brake pads recommendations please? [Re: Merlin_Cat] #1655006
03/01/2022 12:59
03/01/2022 12:59
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,469
S. Wales. Way beyond my means
Gripped Offline
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S. Wales. Way beyond my means
Hi all and HNY.

Thread resurrection.

I've got the MM pads and new (but cheap) discs on my NA. The brake feel is pretty poor (requires a real strong push) compared to what was on before (Pagid pads - not sure about the discs).

Are the MMs known to offer less bite? And if I do go back to pagid pads, is it worth changing the discs to a better brand? Don't want drilled/grooved ones - just wondering if there is a disc which would offer better feel with the new pads.

There's an offer on Pagid discs at the moment (v cheap) and pads too, so could change them, but I'd rather have some forum knowledge first before I start faffing.
Also options are EBC and Brembo.

Cheers

Last edited by Gripped; 03/01/2022 16:18.
Re: Brake pads recommendations please? [Re: Merlin_Cat] #1655009
03/01/2022 16:25
03/01/2022 16:25
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 463
Bulgaria
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Bulgaria
HNY Toby

I have used Pagid pads in the past. They are very good but they are very expensive. I now use Ferodo DS2500 and am very happy with them.

After I could no longer get heat treated Brembo disks I switched to MTech and they are fine. I was very careful to bed them in and make sure they didn't get too hot for a while. I still make sure to warm them up before being hard on them. No problems with them at all. I went for grooved, but not drilled. Their website is good and have various options.

Sorry no experience with MM pads to compare.

Frazer


lost in space
Re: Brake pads recommendations please? [Re: Merlin_Cat] #1655029
04/01/2022 22:13
04/01/2022 22:13
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,469
S. Wales. Way beyond my means
Gripped Offline
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Thanks Frazer.

I'll see what I can find.

Re: Brake pads recommendations please? [Re: Merlin_Cat] #1655041
05/01/2022 21:00
05/01/2022 21:00
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 476
Guildford
wink Offline
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Guildford
I think the pad makes more difference than the disc. I've used both Pagid and Brembo pads with good results. Currently using Brembo pads and discs, good stopping with no squeal. Oh dear, they'll probably start squealing tomorrow...


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