Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc...

Just supposing someone was unwise enough to buy a very cheap, 2000 MY 4-litre V8 S-Type Jag, with a view to having some fun, what would be the best way to tune some extra horses from it (without spending a fortune) and which exhaust would give the most ridiculous, head-turning noise, whilst still scraping through an MOT?

Pics may follow, depending on whether it passes its medical!

NOS kit and straight pipes front to back

Be careful with exhausts - I seem to recall from Motormech's time as a Longlife franchisee that the V8 Jags can be epically loud without enough silencing

I'd suggest the safest (and cheapest) route is simply to remove the rear boxes and fire it up. If you can live with the noise, get some lengths of pipe made up to replace the rear boxes and you're away

As for tuning - a remap is the easiest way - anything more than that and you're into big money for little gain.

Watch out for timing chain rattles....

Dazvr6 - that sounds like my kind of solution. However, I'm not sure it will slip through the MOT tester's net (or last more than one blast on the NOS before it disintegrates...)

Nigel - similarly, epically loud sounds like the effect we're after (though perhaps not after a 2-hour drive...), but would "lengths of pipe" meet with plod's approval?

Incidentally, any overrun flames will be most welcome at this party...

Any more ideas?

I think even rear silencer removal should provide a fairly loud bark and still be under the 95dB permitted for road use.

Shouldn't be a problem - at the end of the day, the backboxes are just a length of pipe anyway - its just that one bit is very fat. You're simply replacing the fat bit (ie the silencer) with a narrow bit. As long as it's secure, plod should have no issues (unless the noise is breaking windows, setting off alarms at 200 yards and causing kittens to go deaf.... )

Almost spat my coffee out

It would sound epic!

Will you start wearing a carcoat, and a trilby, smoking cigars and asking Dave in The Winchester for a large VAT, Arfur?

Whats' this "Will you start" stuff!

Ah good point!!

How very dare you? Terence, show these gentlemen The door!

Hmm. Some research indicates that exhaust noise is a very grey area - legally speaking.

This information from the VCA suggests 74dB is the limit for new petrol on-road cars. It also reckons that a car should not make more noise than it did when the model was type approved.

I had no idea that people were such killjoys!

Might still try it anyway, just be sensible when in built up areas, late at night, etc.

The issue for those trying to slap penalty notices on motorists is how to prove the infringement, given the difficulty of recreating the particular conditions used to take the original readings.

An alternative option. My local exhaust specialist makes a switchable system. You press a button and a valve closes, cutting off the second silencer and making the full V8 roar. Then you can turn it back to "considerate mode" afterwards.

I think you are worrying too much about exhaust noise. Used to run my A35, with 5.7 sbc on the road with next to no silencing. never had any plod problems.
currently driving around in totally un silenced 1641cc Volksrod. 4 pipes straight out from engine. again no probs from plod

I think I would like at middle section silencers rather than tail ones to improve the noise.

With the 4.0 V8 it is the cam chain tensioners you need to check - they were plastic and crack eventually. If they've been done the engine is pretty tough. Get OBD codes read though to see if there are any hidden faults.

Thanks all. I'm having the Jag serviced - including the cam chain tensioners (Nigel also mentions these above) before embarking on any long trips. The pressure switch on the (mighty) power steering failed on the drive home from picking the car up, leaving a vast puddle of fluid on the forecourt of our unit. The seller agreed to pay half for the repair, so I'm calling that a draw! There are a few electrical niggles, but overall it's not too bad.
I'm looking into an exhaust cut-out valve to provide a Jekyll/Hyde noise solution.

This is the place that fitted my exhaust. Yes, the guy is South African. Grroit accent men.

Please ignore the ridiculous techno music, but it shows a V8 with a switchable exhaust system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWjUPYVL-us

Here is an Audi S5 with the system fitted. Quiet at the start, loud at the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvZ-SqB0NyA

The other major weak point is the Ford gearbox. A fluid change every 50-70k miles is essential. At least it uses cheap Dexron III and is easy-ish to do. I really would not try and get more power out of it as you will send that 5R55N to an early grave.

Drop links and ABRs rattle. New links and bushes and good alignment is essential for the car to feel nice. The front brakes are a bit small and don't suit low-friction pads. Buy the best you can get (Jaguar/Jurid 233).

There is a longer list of secondary problems that you might experience but the jaguarforum.com guys are pretty knowledgeable and friendly as long as you keep away from the political discussions!

Thanks Neil - duly noted. Even if we do remap the car, it won't be getting thrashed, or indeed used very often, so hopefully it won't object too much!

We wafted over to Santa Pod in the Jag last Sunday for a rather disappointingly cold and damp European Finals day. The car went fine, although the list of bits that don't work has grown to include:

- the heating
- cruise control
- rear passenger door lock (which disables remote central locking)
- door mirror adjustment
- both rear electric windows (though both motors seem to be turning)
- Cigar lighter power (led to SatNav charging crisis!)

So, nothing serious then. And it is a hoot.

Just wait until MrsC puts her new paint job on it...

Not convinced remapping an N/A is going to achieve anything but the lighter wallet might improve the power to weight ratio

Heating: look into the heater distribution valve. Almost certainly dead (hopefully it has not taken the controller board out as well). Awkward job.

Rear passenger door lock: Had that one. Crappy microswitch in the locks. I would be tempted to replace the lock sooner rather than later in case it decides to jam locked. Usually means destroying the door card to get in and makes a fiddly job even harder.

Window regulators have some plastic parts that age and break. Can be cheaply replaced. Otherwise a complete new regulator is required but even they are not too much dosh. Btw, the adjusters in the headlights do this too and the headlight point down just in front of the bumper

Again a cheap part but the bumper has to come off to take the headlight out for the minor surgery.

I think the S-Type was very much underrated. Its deficiencies were not significant and now that it is old, the old looks fit. Look at an old Merc or BMW form the turn of the century and they look just plain old

Edit: There is a control pack in the drivers door which might be the cause of the problems with the mirrors ...

Thanks Neil.

Might simply go for the exhaust mod then, though that might require a bit of remapping to get the best out of it.

The car is going to our friendly local garage tomorrow, so I'll ask him to investigate the bits you've mentioned.

Hi Jim, how's the Jag coming on?

If the heater pump is the same as on the XK8 it will probably be that which is the heater problem - a pig of a job on the XK because the pump is just in the transmission tunnel above the gearbox so not easy to get at, maybe different in the S-Type.

Cruise control - are you getting a dashboard warning about it and check rear lights? If so it is probably the brake light switch which has two elements - one for the brake lights and the other for the cruise control.

Check the fuse for the cigar lighter, that was the issue I had with mine so a nice easy fix!

Make sure you post pictures of the paint job!

The Jag has been serviced, but the garage hasn't worked through the list of niggles. Should have more news next week.

To me, who values engine sound above car looks and handling dynamics, I'm drooling at the thought of how your Jag may sound.
Never had a V8, although I'm up to a V6.

Who are Prospeed?

See Gripped's post above. Pro-Speed is a Cardiff-based firm run by "Charlie" the South African guru!

We've been using the Jag as a test-bed for our new ChipsAway recruit, so the bodywork is slowly getting fixed up - no progress as yet on flames!

I'm going to be driving it up to Kidderminster tomorrow for a work meeting, which will be its first outing since being serviced.

I'm hoping it's not too cold as we haven't fixed the heater or other niggles!

The first thing I will say about our Jag's exhaust saga is that the result is - unequivocally - fabulous.
Unfortunately, I didn't record the subtle tones of the V8 before we took the car to Cardiff, so I can't do a before and after.

We always intended to find a way to make the car sound better - why have a V8 and bark yourself? - and with the recommendation from Gripped of this Parish, we decided to get a bespoke system made up by Pro-Speed and its owner, Charlie. The idea was to have a system with switchable electronic valves offering butter-wouldn't-melt whispering on one setting and yikes-what's-that?! on the other.
We duly delivered the Jag to Cardiff on 7th October, with the promise that it would be ready in a week to two weeks. The workshop looked a bit back-street, but hey, that's how true geniuses work. Whilst there, we selected some tasty twin oval rolled tips to complement the install.

We finally got the car back last Thursday, after 2 trips to Wales in the intervening weeks where we had been assured that it would be ready, but it wasn't. Excuses included:

- One of his workers had caught his hand in a chop saw and his parents were suing

- Gypsies had broken in to the workshop and stolen our exhaust

- Charlie had had to sack another of his crew, putting him behind schedule

- Someone had suffered a heart attack in the workshop.

Some or all of these may not actually be true.

Either way, every time another hold-up occurred, we begged Charlie to simply pick up the phone and tell us.

In the end, we were left feeling strongly that all was not well in Charlie's life. And we didn't get the twin tips...

No question, the man can build an exhaust, but he needs to sort himself and his communications skills out.

Anyway, here's the bit you've been waiting for...

S-Type with new "normal" exhaust

S-Type with "Blimey!" valves open

Well, what can I say. It does sound awesome.
I also think those end pipes suit the car well.

Sorry you had a poor experience along the way Jim. Having only used Prospeed the once, I can only go on my own experience which has been fine. I was also recommended them by someone else who is a proper tuning fiend. I hope you feel it was worth the trip.

Maybe he bit off more than he could chew or as you say, there are other issues going on. Last time I saw him, he was wearing a back brace !

I'd like to hear another video of it under load driving past at full throttle !

Sounds great!

Sounds more than purposeful on normal and awesome on full-fat, great job

Sounds fantastic Jim. Lovely rasp and bite on V open. Video was a bit short mate.... More needed and a drive by...

Jim, that sounds brilliant!

Great improvement!

Now that is a lovely sound, but how will it contend with your string backed driving gloves and pipe?

Come on Jim. We want more video !!

I'll try to take some more in the next few days, but we're a man down at work and the Panda is having work done then vinyl put on, so the Jaaaaaaaaag is not getting much attention!

Sounds lovely Jim. More videos required though.

I too had a less than brilliant customer journey with Prospeed, however the exhaust they built for my coupe is fantastic.

Thanks for the comments - I keep persuading anyone within a wide radius to come and listen! Actually, anyone within a pretty wide radius gets to hear it anyway...

Interesting that you had a difficult customer experience, Morrison.

I have no problem at all with Charlie's work - he's done a terrific job, which alone justifies Gripped's recommendation and I'm very grateful for that - cheers, Toby!

My fear is that Charlie is - for whatever reason(s) not running his business or managing his workload well. He is clearly stressed out and his communications are terrible. I'm told he is sometimes sleeping at his unit, which sounds like someone with a zero work-life balance. The bottom line is that although it was a pretty tedious experience for us, we ended up worried for Charlie, his reputation and his business.

Hopefully, he can turn it around and generate more customers who are happy with the whole journey!

Did I mention that we were going to subtley alter the paintwork?

Before:



After:



Before:



After:



Before:



After:



Oh, and here's a bit more noise...

See if you can spot when MrsC presses the loud button...

That's epic Jim. Nothing quite like a subtle addition to the paintwork.

As for the noise, I hear it getting quieter and more muffled at the end. Assume that's when the switch was pressed to engage all the silencers?

Good noise. Still need some drive pasts though.

I get no pics - just photobucket hosting messages, Jim

Sounds great, though

That's weird, all the pics except the 4th one were working when I posted it...
I'll try to find an alternative hosting service.

I could see them yesterday Jim,but not now.

I can't see the pictures

I've seen them and believe me fate sometimes knows what it is doing

ha ha only kidding Jim. I did manage to see them somewhere, somehow and it's pretty good really. Certainly eye catching. Thank god it's a Jag though adn not a coop

Park that in the wrong place on Bonfire Night, Jim, and you'll never find it!

I'm looking into using Google drive as a host, but it may take a while as the tiny window I had to do this has now closed!

You have my intrest Jim.... I have been looking at oldish jags for when I am a fiat down... I would love the S type r... but thats a bill waiting to happen so have been looking again at the Xj8 but the S type v8 is so very very cheep.

You got any more photos of yours as I am liking what I see, if its not to rude as well, what did you pick it up for?

If you have a little more in the budget, the the 4.2 V8 is more desirable mainly because the ZF gearbox is a lot better than the Ford one. Also the dash is more old-school Jaguar-like. However, they are not that common. The V6 was the bigger seller before the diesel came along. Both gearboxes need regular oil changes though.

so avoid the 4ltr? go for the 4.2?

The 4.2 is quite a bit better but not much more money these days The Ford gearbox takes the edge of the 4.0's performance and seems to fail more frequently. It is barely faster than the early 3.0 V6 manuals. The later V6s are a bit slower but more economical. The 3.0 V6 with the Ford box is terrible imho. If V6, then manual or ZF auto (2002.5 facelift model from around Jan 2002 onwards).

Used, the 4.2 n/a must be the best buy.

Thanks Neil, good info there, there is a 4.2 local to me, im thinking i may look it up

Apart from the obvious, check for a jerky gearbox, the windows work, door locks work, heater goes hot and cold, clonking from the suspension (which might be just the drop links) and rusting sills under the plastic covers. They are solid cars but do often suffer from niggling faults which might cost a lot in parts. Some of the jobs are fiddly so cheaper used parts that also fail a short time later might be frustrating.

Is there a link to the car near you?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/03-JAGUAR-S-TYPE-4-2-V8-SE-AUTO-FSH-LONG-MOT-SUPERB-XJ/322954879562?hash=item4b319c624a:g:yskAAOSw9Z1aVAbk

Certainly looks worth popping over to see. The steering wheel and driver's seat look well worn though for 130k

No lumbar support. Was an option and many found that they should have ordered it. Check.

XENON HEADLIGHTS? They look like std halogens that have gone a bit dull. I would check the rest of the spec. Premium sound had a subwoofer and amp under the parcel shelf, etc. and I think labeled Alpine.

I did note that, and the xenon headlights, some one got happy with the features option I think.....
Just took a look at the mot history and maybe ill skip it, the add paints a very different picture to the car which seems to have corrosion issues and needs brake lines.

2006's list that dont really look like they were addressed

Reason(s) for failure
Anti-lock braking system warning lamp indicates an ABS fault (3.4.1c)
Brake fluid warning lamp illuminated (3.6.G.2)
Offside Front Braking system leaking brake pipe (3.6.A.1)
Brake hydraulic reservoir fluid level below minimum level (3.6.G.1b)
Nearside Stop lamp not working (1.2.1b)
Nearside Rear position lamp(s) not working (1.1.A.3b)
Exhaust emissions carbon monoxide content after 2nd fast idle excessive (7.3.D.3)
Nearside Rear Suspension component mounting prescribed area is excessively corroded outer sill area (2.4.A.3)
Offside Rear Tyre tread depth below requirements of 1.6mm (4.1.E.1)
Service brake: efficiency below requirements (3.7.B.7)
Parking brake: efficiency below requirements (3.7.B.7)
Advisory notice item(s)
Rear Brake pipe slightly corroded both sides (3.6.B.2c)
Offside Rear Inner Brake pad(s) wearing thin (3.5.1g)
Rear brake disc worn, pitted or scored, but not seriously weakened (3.5.1i)
e.m.l on
Nearside Rear Radius arm ball joint dust cover deteriorated, but preventing the ingress of dirt (2.4.G.2)
Offside Rear Radius arm ball joint dust cover deteriorated, but preventing the ingress of dirt (2.4.G.2)
Nearside Rear Lower Suspension arm has slight play in a pin/bush (2.4.G.2)
brake test not done due to brake fluid leak

It has failed its MOT quite often for a "well-maintained" car! Probably an unloved workhorse. There will be others

Yeh, I have gone though a few I thought were worth while, some people are incredibly disingenuous about state of cars. There was an Xk8 local, add shows full mot, it was tested a few weeks back and failed and has hols in the floor!

XK8 floors are regular rust spots which are quite easily fixed, there is a plate under the floor which is a moisture trap - I sprayed grease from an aerosol between the plate and floor anytime I was under it and didn't get an issue.

The 4.2 us a better engine as the chain tensioners don't need replacing, if that is needed on a 4.0 the repair can cost what the saving between models might be.

Yes! At last!

Thanks to gdURL.com!

Wow - that’s amazing, Jim!!!

Jim. I want your garage.

And, still awaiting the elusive drive by video....

Come on Jimmy !

My garage? That's my place of business!

The Jag is back in the unit to be flatted and cut and polished, after which a drive-by *might* happen. God knows when we'll find the time as we currently have 2 other (less exciting) projects, along with normal work.

We have been asked to paint a light aircraft and we have bought a touring caravan that we are gutting and turning into an office...

Well, it looks like a nice garage and so I still want it

Fingers crossed for the drive-by.

Sounds like you're diversifying rather well there Jim.

Wait till you see his filing cabinet

Filing cabinet visible in 2nd "after" photo...!