Unusual quest...

Now that my life revolves entirely around ChipsAway (MrsC and I were proud winners of "Newcomers of the Year" at the recent conference!), we are looking for a replacement for our trusty Bravo courtesy car.

There's nothing wrong with the Bravo, apart from one thing that makes it unsuitable for its role... it has lousy ground clearance!

We spend many, many hours driving around the hills and vales of the beautiful Cotswolds visiting customers to estimate the damage on their vehicles. We also let our customers drive our Bravo themselves - possibly with rather less respect than we show it!
Often, we find ourselves on narrow, rough tracks, with huge potholes and a large, grass-growing hump in the middle. My buttocks have reached maximum clench as we scrape and grind along yet another "green lane", only to find that the customer has a "Waitrose wound" on their Range Rover or Cayenne.

So, we've decided that we'd like to trade in the trusty Bravo for something with a) substantially more ground clearance and b) 4-wheel drive if possible, for when ice and snow join the party.

Our budget is limited - around 4k - and we'd like something reasonably low mileage and clean (it's our calling card, after all).

Oh and two more vital points:

It must be 1.4 or less (for our insurance) and

it must be silver/metallic grey so we can add the Chips livery...

What left field ideas can the FCCUK panel come up with?

So far, we've considered the Panda 4x4 (a bit long in the tooth, but otherwise perfect if we can find a good'un), the Yeti (4x4 only in 1.9 or 2-litre)...

Jim

My initial thought was something like a Freelander as a good one (they are out there!) would be nowhere near 4k
Then I saw the 1.4 thing.
That is going to be a massive issue on 4x4 which is normally the route for ground clearance.
Is there no way to look at the insurance? Sounds very restrictive.

Suzuki Jimny 1.3 VVT JLX + 4WD 3 Door Manual Diesel 4x4
£4495 on preloved in Essex

Suzuki SX4
Fiat Sedici
VX Mokka
Chevrolet Trax
Hyundai IX35

What about a trusty land rover Jim



Or maybe a Dacia duster which may be in budget.

Duster sounds good to me

Thanks for the suggestions. Duster would be a good call, but the only ones that fit the engine size requirement are around 15k.
MrsC would love a Land Rover. Me? Less so!

Jim, you probably need a 4x4 type thing for ground clearance but experience tells me that you don’t for snow provided you have winter tyres fitted. I also know that 4x4 is pretty useless without winter tyres, additionally (without wanting to sound like a tyre fetishist) buy something with tall (narrow) tyres - better in snow, better on rough roads and tyres are cheaper.

Is diesel definitely out Jim? Gives more options.

Toyota Urban Cruiser or as has already been suggested, a RAV 4.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/...YOTA&page=1

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/...cars&page=1

Or this beast......

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/...trol&page=1

Good info. You've made the case for the right tyres above 4-wheel drive before, Rich, and I think it may be compelling (not least due to the lack of decent choice in 4x4 options.
I actually quite like the Urban Cruiser - despite myself!

Diesel isn't ruled out - just quite unusual in 1.4 or smaller...

I've a cracking little Suzuki Ignis 4Grip Jim - great fun thing, but 1,490cc though!

I've done some searching with your requirements...and narrowed down to essentially 3 (4 if you include the newer Panda)

Suzuki Jimny. 1.3 petrol.
A proper little 4x4, but they are meant to be rather "agricultural" so I'm not sure it's a viable option for customers expecting a bit of comfort.

Fiat Panda 4x4, 1.2 petrol and Cross 1.3 diesel
The ubiquitous 1.2 engine and able to mix it up with the big boys off road.... and of course, a Fiat. The later Panda 4x4 "Cross" with the 1.3jtd diesel is also in the price range.


Toyota Urban Cruiser 1.4TD.
This is the wildcard, and possibly the best for your needs as it's bigger.It is also smart looking, and more like a modern MPV than the others. This would be my choice personally.

Here is my search.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?...rive&page=5

Thanks, Gripped. Some good possibilities there. However, the silver colour requirement makes it a bit trickier!

Ahem

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/...1500&page=1

Looks pretty clean and good for the price.

They also do a 1.3VVTi petrol engine

ebay

How about the fiat panda cross? 1.3 diesel and should just be in budget

I think it's going to be between a Jimny and a Panda. I really like the look of the 3-door Grand Vitara, but the engine is too big and it's actually wider than our current car (another challenge we often face is squeezing down narrow lanes with Range Rovers driven by locals hurtling round blind bends in the opposite direction) Slim is good!

I would much prefer the Panda, but finding a low-mileage, silver one is proving very difficult!

Anyone know of one or where to look apart from eBay/Autotrader?

Be careful with the 1.3 Fiat diesel lump - it's definitely not one of Fiat's finest..... A bit clattery and fuel consumption tends to suffer due to having to thrash it everywhere

Same goes for the TwinAir - great idea, but flawed in practice

I've just done a search for £2k-£4k, 4x4, silver and under 1.4l - all ten results were Jimnys

I have to agree with MRS though - a FWD car with winter tyres will run rings round most 4x4s in the snow

Is it really an absolute necessity to have under 1.4 litres - is insurance really that much more if you go bigger?

Hmmm - a left-field suggestion - Dacia Sandero Stepway 0.9l

A bit over-budget, but if you can stretch a little, or negotiate a discount, you might get close

Avoid anything with low profile tyres. You really want the highest profile tyre car you can find. That plus good ground clearance equals comfort, 2wd is fine if you are driving over rough ground. I think the urban cruiser has low profile tyres.

Daihatsu Terios 1.3 has quite high ground clearance and they are available under 4k.

Here you go.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201710039921037?

Thanks Nigel. A few people have suggested the Stepway, but it really is a bit out of budget.

The reason for the 1.4 limit is that some of our customers, who want to make use of the courtesy car, are quite young. Not to mention our new lad and my Stepson, both of whom are under 25.

I'm about to look around for competitive quotes for renewing our business insurance, so that might change.

Thanks sugerbear. We're leaning towards the Jimny at this stage (leaning being quite an apt term, I'm led to believe...), given the lack of silver Panda 4x4s. I've looked at that Terios, but I think lack of choice and possibly relatively pricey spares might be a bit limiting.

I'm intending to buy a set of steel wheels and fit some non-low profile winter tyres. Given the lack of tarmac-tearing horsepower, they ought to last quite well...

Well, tomorrow we go to look at and hopefully buy our new fleet member...

A 2007 Silver Fiat Panda 4x4: under 50k miles, looks tidy and up at a reasonable price with 12 months' ticket.

The Jimny seems (to my astonishment) to have a premium price due to its "mini Jeep" image. Couldn't get into one post 03 for our budget.

We looked at upping the engine capacity and considered the Suzuki SX4 and Fiat Sedici, but couldn't find one that met our - admittedly pretty narrow - criteria.

Luckily, this Panda seems to have saved our quest at the last minute - it was what we wanted to start with.

Now, what should I look out for mechanically and what size steel wheels and winter tyres should I fit?

According to the MOT history on the DVLA website, the EML was an advisory for the December 2016 MOT, but I'm assured that it is no longer illuminated. Is there an easy way to discover what caused the issue and how it was solved (cured or just made to go away)?

Picked up our new acquisition yesterday. Very tidy, cute little thing and exactly what we're after. Narrow, small, nimble, cheap and cheerful. Couple of little trolley dings, but guess what?!

You can get cheap code readers for under £20 which will read any remaining codes. Hopefully it was nowt serious. Do you have the service history?

When I bought my Coupe, I found out which garage had been servicing it, and paid a small amount for them to print off all the history for me. Hopefully you can find out what the issue was.

As for winter tyres, I recently got some for the Bongo. In tests, they performed as well as premium brands. Mind you, Maxxis are a good brand. Maxxis AP2 All Season.

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Maxxis/All-Season-AP2.htm

I must admit. I fancy a Panda 4x4 myself... among many others !

We were given a Panda 1.2 petrol as a courtesy car once. I wasn't expecting much but it turned out to be a right hoot. I can see why the 100HP got such great reviews!

Turns out it's got 4 more or less new Kléber winter tyres on it, so that saves a bit. I think the exhaust and rear brakes might need some attention. We opted for a bit of money off instead of a new MOT, which may prove an ill-advised gamble. But I think it's a terrific little car and just what we need. I'm trying to resist looking into some serious spotlights for winter country lane driving!

Sounds like a good buy, fingers crossed for the MOT. I've always fancied a Panda 4x4

Me too, great fun to bounce off the limiter.

Pretty sure you could drive it wearing a top hat too!!

At least you know the work will have been done when you do it... (Cynical? Me?)

Well, it seems that the Panda needs a few bits and bobs - new wishbones and a prop-shaft bush, new brake discs and most of a new exhaust. Nothing too terrible.

I'd also like to get a new sump guard, but I'm inclined to have one fabricated, as the OEM one looks like it was made out of puff pastry. Rotten and almost disintegrated.

On the inside, I love the basic feel, but I would dearly like to fit a new head unit. The factory one is dreadful, not least because it occupies a double-din sized space, yet offers no AUX/USB connectivity or a DAB (though I can forgive this, given the car's age!) and the sound is bobbins.
There are no steering wheel controls or fancy OBC to worry about, so hopefully it should be plug and play (possibly with an adapter).

I don't want to spend a fortune, but I'd like a touch-screen if possible, as the space is there. I'm not even bothered about CDs - just DAB/radio and connectivity with phone, etc.
I'm not a brand junkie, so cheap Chinese could be an option...

Does anyone have any recommendations?

I have a Chinese jobby which I bought for another car and never used,just powered up on the desk and that’s all.
Drop me a pm if you want Jim.

Sat nav, sd card, usb etc. You will have to get a suitable cage surround but ready to go. Have a brand new motor now will all the toys so won’t be used. Even better it’s standard iso connector.

Like this one
Link

That looks pretty much what I'm after, Reuben. Does it have DAB though, or just radio? DAB is a deal-breaker for me...

Second hand car stereos lose a lot of value. This JVC is starting at £20 and seems to meet your requirements. Also worth checking local gumtree.

Welcome to panda 4x4 land!
Custed is one of the better cars I bought of late and has been really rather well liked... and hated.

Would you like to see what wins in a tug of war?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weHTavY18bk

I enjoyed the SFII reference! Did you do it the other way around Sam?

I'm absolutely loving it, Sam! She's got her new ChipsAway decals, looking fine. Do you have any good tips about where to get info, etc?

There is a fiat panda facebook group thats really good. Quite a few of us older panda drivers have new ones as well.
If you are on fb pm me username and I'll add you.

I need to do it the other way around... the mk1 wasn't running right as well so maybe ect weekend!

No dab on these Chinese units I’m afraid. going need to stick to a big brand for a dab system Jim.

That's frustrating, Reuben! But you're right. Presumably, there's a USB DAB dongle or some such that can be added? How much would you want for the head unit?

I really don’t think you can Jim. What I have done previously on another unit is connect my phone to it and played tunein radio app through the unit.

Will pm you a price, as say never been fitted just tested on the bench.

Thanks, Reuben. Maybe an app is the way forward.

I decided to forego the touch screen and opted for another Pure Highway single DIN head unit. The DAB+ on the one I bought for the coupé was brilliant - way better than the factory for one in my Transporter.
Thanks for everyone's help, as ever...

Based on an aborted trip to Cirencester from Stroud this morning, I now think buying this little Panda may have been the shrewdest vehicle move I've ever made!
Sadly, we had to turn back as the road was blocked by immobilised trucks, but the Panda was amazing!

Stay safe, you fccuck_ers.

The feeling of smugness as you leave all the BMW and Mercs stuck in the snow must be overwhelming Jim !

The little Panda coming into its own.

I certainly felt for the driver of a very nice Maserati as he attempted a roundabout. His paasenger was covering her eyes!

My Merc never gets stuck. Shod in winter tyres, it’s a match for most things in snow depths that roads stays open.

But I’d imagine the Panda is very good.

Yeah, I'm talking about the average RWD vehicle. My Bongo is RWD, so not expecting good snow performance... Until I get the winter boots fitted.

Bought a replacement for the Bravo yesterday. Four ditchfinder specials on it, naturally - snow tyres ordered but I can't get them until Wednesday.

So today, six inches of global warming fell on our head. It was interesting, but not impossible (although people seemed to be having difficulty with a flat car park for some reason.)

Reminds me of my visit to Norway several years back with most having 2 complete set of tyres, with the winter set of the studded variety. Are these sold/allowed in the UK?

I'm pretty sure studded tyres are not legal in the UK.

No studded tyres on motor vehicles. I have studded tyres for my MTB that I used for my winter cycling commutes - they are fabulous. I think Scandinavia spent/spends a fortune on road repairs. I don’t know if they still use studs.

Many parts of Europe have mandatory winter tyres. It makes sense because they are amazing. Our first winter in Scotland, I couldn’t get the Merc off the (level) drive in snow - just utterly refused to shift on standard Summer tyres. With winter tyres, it just went everywhere, including up some steep icy slopes - without the traction light even blinking.

We have to remember that summer tyres have been progressively pushed towards the performance end of the spectrum so designers have dropped any pretence of providing winter ability. The compounds however, are usually fine at low temps but the tread design is completely unsuitable for ice and snow. Look at some of the youtube videos of 4wd vs winter tyres for some light entertainment. 4wd is great for getting going but turning and stopping is still down to the tyres. Once you have driven in bad conditions with winter tyres you will think many times before attempting the same again with summer tyres.

Quite.

Though I wrote off a Bravo a couple of weeks ago in snow - a choice between an oncoming vehicle in the middle of the road and a ditch - the snow tyres meant I was able to steer and slide along the ditch/rock face instead of meeting it head on.

The replacement Bravo has a complete mismatched set of ditchfinders which have made the last couple of days, um, interesting - but by Wednesday afternoon it will have snow tyres on.

Steering the discussion back to the Panda - she went through her MOT today with the requisite work on the brakes and lower suspension arms having been carried out.
Advisories on 2 front coil springs and rust on the anti-roll bar.

The other thing that will need replacing relatively soon is the exhaust. Apparently they are not easy to get from 3rd party suppliers and they cost a fair bit from Fiat. I would love to get a stainless one as the big back box runs transversally (and quite visibly) right across the back of the car. This is unique to the 4x4, owing to the prop-shaft and rear diff eating up the room used by the FWD exhaust. Does anyone know a good place to look for a pattern one? Could Alternative Autos be a contender?

I do know a place in Cardiff that does great exhausts, but we'll be needing the Panda before next Spring!

Go to infinity exhausts, just outside Bristol. Build bespoke systems for many applications!

Good call, Dan, thanks.