Did fiat produce the le kit for looks, or does it add any down force or stability to the front of the car.

Would you notice the effects of the lips at high speed?

Mainly for a looks update without the cost of having to update (too much) tooling, but they will have done work on simulations and windtunnel. The lips will marginally reduce the amount of air going under the car and the side skirts will create (low) pressure zones for the same effect as well as guide air away from the wheels. So while they add to the static Cx they will play an active role in guiding air at speed.

Whether it is functional in such a way that you will feel the difference in terms of drag or stability? Well at least it won't have an overall worsening effect.

They probably work as good as any splitters.
What they do is reduce lift by producing downforce; due to the air speed difference over/under the splitter. And; the result of reduced lift is reduced Cx (drag).
Many cars have this feature as std. moulded in the bumper nowadays.

Fiat did extensive windtunnel tests and it's probably safe to say there was something like this kit on the car, at some point.

they wont be anywhere as a good as real splitter extending the foward the length of the front bumper.

The effect of these items will be minimal.

I don't know if you've ever seen one, but they do "extend forward the length of the front bumper".
Obviously, the longer the greater effect basically. I suppose they could've done it 100mm longer like on a race car but I don't think it would've sold.

A lot of cars has similar splitters of similar size, for the same reason. Like cars designed to race down Autobahn at 250km/h: http://www.2012-audi-reviews.tk/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/2012-audi-rs4-2.jpg Which happens to be the Coupe top speed too.

They are so tiny that and pressure differential will be very small. Its a styling addition, not like the splitter on the 155 silverstone for example when ran in the extended actually gives downforce.

How about adding a thin plate that sticks out 2" or something at the front of the lip attached to the bottom to make it more "splitter" like?

As mentioned in the aerodynamics thread, the Cada front lip would be the best bet, it's slightly larger than the LE lips and runs the full length of the bumper.

Just because it's smaller than your usual race 150mm carbon splitter (and more like other factory BMW/Audi etc. splitters) does not actually mean it does not work. It means it probably produces LESS downforce.

Yes Per probably makes about 1kg of downforce, amazing

Fiat if anyone would know.

(Another thing - why is it everybody always slags off ANY aerodynamic mod, no matter how good/bad it may be? I suspect there may be a small case of snobbism around?
There's actually no rulebook saying all aero mods are bad.
There's a lot you can do with a bit of knowledge, and the Coupe is a very good car to start with.)

Fiat wouldnt know no way did they wind tunnel test a styling change so small. If you really had an insight in aero testing then you would have a clearer understanding of what constitutes are real aero device and what it purely for style.

That said you can often be sure of 2 things, an extended splitter full width of the front of the car with an nose down attack to the forward air flow will give down force. A full width spoiler again with a notable curve on its chord length with end plates will create down force. Aside from that many other deivces do not garauntee down force, as experienced by team dynamics in some of the changes they made to this years BTC car. Also downforce can not be considered alone as negative lift versus drag must be considered as adding downforce alone could result in a slower car if the drag builds too much.

do bonnets create down force?

I have a relative who works at Ford's testing centre at Dunton, we were discussing this yesterday and he reckons that any change like the Lips and LE Skirts would have been wind tunnel tested, especially on a car with a 155MPH top speed, he said that if the original data was available, then the actual test session wouldn't have taken long, to confirm that the mod's did not have a detrimental affect on stability at high speed or in cross winds.

He did say that from about 96 onwards, they got much better computer based modelling and test simulators and design tools in the motor industry, leading to much quicker testing.

could be, I'd imagine if testing occurred then it would be to see if they stayed on at the max speed.

a good test

Sparco seems to be using one of these for the time attack series

This is absolutely right, althought they do still need to test cars/mods in the tunnel, some situations are simply still too complex to just calculate.

At Volvo Design we try all cars out + Land Rover had all their tests here as well during the Ford-era. Even the tiniest spoiler is tested.


Yes they should know. Ok? They tried so much stuff out you would'nt believe (first hand info from Mr. Bangle himself). Things you can do if you have your own windtunnel..
What made you think I don't work with car design? Do some homework, these things should be of your interest as you seem to race cars.
Re splitters; anything that sticks out in that area WILL have an effect, it's just a question of how much (how long/wide). The angle in a side view has less to do with it though.
Re style; it's also true that spoilers/skirts have been on (racing)cars for so long we have LEARNED they look cool. Ask a kid from the 40's and he would probably NOT fancy these things.. Which means they don't automatically turn bad just because WE think they look cool.

Hang hang on, crossed wires here, I'm talking about true down force not counteraction of lift at speed i.e. net compressive force on the springs as oppossed to reduced lift compared to the std car. I have no doubt they improve the situation over the std car with lips and skirts at speed perhaps this is our misunderstanding with our posts. You are talking about lift reduction and I am talking about net downforce at speed (i.e. from positive lift to negative lift, which is not the same as reducing positive lift as the net effect is not 'downforce' per se but a reducing rate of change of +'ve lift - please comment on your view point and I think we can get on the same page, as it just occurred to me this could be the issue.

Ah, absolutely with you on that one!
You could say I saw lift/downforce as two sides of the same coin, from the viewpoint that it's probably very hard to get to actual compressive downforce without enormous wings (causing much drag as you say) but that is me guessing as I don't know HOW much lift the Coupe's got.. Anyway, so anything we do (for road/trackday use) would be reducing lift really..

Which is also a benefit of the other body kits which bring the front/sides lower, infact lowering the car alone should help with high speed stability assuming the suspension is well damped for the frequencies.

The biggest effect of lowering the car is less drag as you reduce the frontal area of the tyres. It wouldn't reduce the lift that much, unless you lower it only at the front. But then you increase drag again.

I personally think they did a pretty good job at the underside of the car, keeping things flat. And it's one of the reasons that I feel you should leave the undertray on. Other than keeping waterspray out.

so putting a full length splitter on the front will reduce lift rather than downforce, but it will make the car more stable at high speed?

A full length splitter, extending well beyond the standard line of the lower part of the front bump and well attached should eliminate lift altogether and create downforce at speed essentially making the car load the springs more.

A deep front valance or bumper which comes close to the ground (and is sealed by the undertray) should cut lift by reducing the air going under the car.

Kayjey expalin to me how only lowing the car at the front would increase drag?

Larger frontal area, whole car acting more as a wing.

Remember also the balance front/rear, basically you need to add/loose downforce the same amount.
Here at Volvo they're picky about that.

(For example I think I got too much at the rear, the front end gets a bit lightweight over 240km/h - a big mother splitter plate would prob. do the job if it wouldn't look so bad.. )

Kayjay frontal area and drag are not the same thing, thats why I asked the question. Drag wont change (*), frontal area would be minimally cahnged, volume of the air flowing under the car will be reduced, thus I would expect lift to be reduced and perhaps(*) a reduction in drag owing to drag creating surfaces under the car having less influence.

I entirely agree with the undertray, fiat put that on with good reason.