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Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: Brilly1uk] #1625063
17/09/2018 18:06
17/09/2018 18:06
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Nice job Iain with the plastic paint spray.
Love the wooden dash though - just needs a veneer! laugh


Fiat Coupe 20VT
Alfa Romeo Spider
BMW X3
Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: Brilly1uk] #1625068
17/09/2018 18:22
17/09/2018 18:22
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Has anyone got an idea how to go about replacing some of the rubber insulation, electrical wire hosing, rubber sockets, clips etc found on pretty much everything under the bonnet? confused
20 odd years have seen mine beginning to perish or crumble and as everything else gradually gets tidied it looks pretty conspicuous!
Presumably a significant issue for all modern classics?
Are there any (wiring loom?) specialists who stock new or as new replacements?
I suspect nothing would be available from Fiat?


Fiat Coupe 20VT
Alfa Romeo Spider
BMW X3
Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: Brilly1uk] #1625105
18/09/2018 19:16
18/09/2018 19:16
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 49
East Sussex
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Originally Posted By Brilly1uk
Love the wooden dash though - just needs a veneer! laugh


They do a sprint blue creosote in B&Q. The previous owner was a carpenter so made sense to stick with what he knew and use a bit of skirting board. However, the main problem is the birch he has used for the anti-roll bars.

Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: Brilly1uk] #1625106
18/09/2018 19:28
18/09/2018 19:28
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Brilly you can buy the rubber boots on ebay, although I"m not sure how easy they are to change, presumably you need to unwire each connector to be able to slip the new boot over then resit the wires back in the connector.

I was advised to use self amalgamating tape - not as pretty but just as effective.

Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: Brilly1uk] #1625107
18/09/2018 19:29
18/09/2018 19:29
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Lightwater, Surrey
DaveG Offline
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You need some sort of extraction tool to allow you to remove all the terminals (male or female spade connectors) from the connector "plug". The official tools are ridiculously expensive but you can get multi-purpose tools with a number of different "prongs" and all they do is push a small locking tab into the terminal so that it is no longer "locked" in position and you can pull the wire and connector out. I'm looking to get one myself, it's on the list of things to do...

I'd suggest making a list of the connectors you want to replace the rubber "boots" on, and then buy a stock of them in bulk (all the different sizes you want) to bring the unit cost down. Most of the connectors are AMP or "junior power timer".

Tackle one connector at a time, noting the colour and position of each wire in each block, perhaps checking them against the wiring and connector diagrams in the workshop manual for reference and future info. Release all the "spades" using your tool of choice (and retrieve the "seals" if fitted), then remove the knackered boots, replace insulation and replace boots with new items before reinserting the pins and seals (not forgetting to pull out the locking tabs first). Removing and replacing the spades should not cause any problems, but it's possible that a locking tab might break off, the spade might be in bad condition (corroded) or the wiring damaged, so that you might need to cut off a spade, cut back some insulation, and crimp a new spade on. There are many different sizes so you may want to buy in a stock of the most common sizes.

For the insulation around groups of wires (the loom) consider using self-amalgamating tape rather than ordinary For insulation tape, although I'm not convinced that the former lasts any better. The problem with insulation tape is that normally the ends come unstuck and then the unsticky bits work backwards from the ends. IIRC there are "end caps" that can be used to finish off a run of tape neatly?

That's what I'd start by doing anyway...


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: DaveG] #1625110
18/09/2018 19:41
18/09/2018 19:41
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Devon
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Devon
I bought a MAC TOOLS 6 piece wire terminal release tool kit some years ago,
haven`t used yet, but looks good quality. The p/no. is ITC RK-6PC.

Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: Brilly1uk] #1625111
18/09/2018 19:50
18/09/2018 19:50
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 49
East Sussex
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Re. wiring loom I did a quick tidy up of the coil loom when I changed the spark plugs, Tesa 51026 is good for that.

For wiring, heat shrink tubing and spiral binding or convoluted tubing works well. You can obviously use fresh electrical tape where required or Tesa 51026 if you prefer.

Some of the rubber covers over the wiring plugs have seen better days on mine. I don't know what can be done about this because even if you can buy replacements, you would have to pop the wires out of the plugs to fit, which is a real pain.

I suppose you can always replace knackered plugs with superseal connectors.

Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: Brilly1uk] #1625127
19/09/2018 17:33
19/09/2018 17:33
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Glos
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Thanks all. smile
I take there are no specialists in supplying refurbished wiring looms and the like?
I would have thought this would have quite a market for post fuel injection cars?


Fiat Coupe 20VT
Alfa Romeo Spider
BMW X3
Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: Brilly1uk] #1625129
19/09/2018 18:12
19/09/2018 18:12
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,162
Glos
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A visit to the bodyshop today to see progress so far.
As suspected, it has confirmed my worries about the welding needed on the nearside.
Broadly speaking it looks like a repeat of the offside!
I mentioned the Coupe was supposedly originally galvanised which raised a laugh!
A similar vintage A6 Allroad also in the shop, was said to have no rust at all.
Presumably, Fiat had a different idea about galvanisation to Audi? rolleyes


Fiat Coupe 20VT
Alfa Romeo Spider
BMW X3
Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: Brilly1uk] #1625136
19/09/2018 20:16
19/09/2018 20:16
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,385
Lightwater, Surrey
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The galvanisation was only supposed to ensure the Coupe made it to 10 years old without completely rusting away like they did in the 1970s and 1980s. Considering that most Coupes around now have made it to 20 years does represent progress!

And how do you know the Audi hasn't lived a sheltered life compared to your Coupe? You could place two Coupes side by side, one looking the worse for wear and the other looking in great condition, all down to how they have been (mis)used and (not)cared for over the years...


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: Brilly1uk] #1625140
20/09/2018 08:51
20/09/2018 08:51
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Berlin
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Re AMP rubber boots - they're getting a bit thin on the ground now; last time I looked AMP/TYCO had stopped making them, though they still made the connectors and pins.


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: DaveG] #1625177
20/09/2018 17:44
20/09/2018 17:44
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Originally Posted By DaveG
The galvanisation was only supposed to ensure the Coupe made it to 10 years old without completely rusting away like they did in the 1970s and 1980s. Considering that most Coupes around now have made it to 20 years does represent progress!

And how do you know the Audi hasn't lived a sheltered life compared to your Coupe? You could place two Coupes side by side, one looking the worse for wear and the other looking in great condition, all down to how they have been (mis)used and (not)cared for over the years...


True enough.
My own A6, a few years ago, began to show some rust in the wheel arches after 200k. Undoubtedly caused by muck trapped between the wheel arch and wheel arch liners.
For some reason, my Coupe seems to have deteriorated significantly in the last two or three years, despite it being mostly garaged over winter.


Fiat Coupe 20VT
Alfa Romeo Spider
BMW X3
Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: barnacle] #1625178
20/09/2018 17:46
20/09/2018 17:46
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Brilly1uk Offline OP
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Originally Posted By barnacle
Re AMP rubber boots - they're getting a bit thin on the ground now; last time I looked AMP/TYCO had stopped making them, though they still made the connectors and pins.


Candidate perhaps for a group buy or possible project?


Fiat Coupe 20VT
Alfa Romeo Spider
BMW X3
Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: Brilly1uk] #1625298
23/09/2018 19:13
23/09/2018 19:13
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Looks like there's a newer range out that should fit 2, 3, or 4 pin connectors (different part numbers, obviously): https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/automotive-connector-accessories/3662077/ is for the 3-pin connectors.

It's not as nice (pretty) as the original covers from 25 years ago, but should do the trick. You can also obtain the pin removal tool so you can use original housings and wiring, replacing the often split covers.


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: barnacle] #1625347
24/09/2018 20:47
24/09/2018 20:47
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Originally Posted By barnacle
Looks like there's a newer range out that should fit 2, 3, or 4 pin connectors (different part numbers, obviously): https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/automotive-connector-accessories/3662077/ is for the 3-pin connectors.

It's not as nice (pretty) as the original covers from 25 years ago, but should do the trick. You can also obtain the pin removal tool so you can use original housings and wiring, replacing the often split covers.


Thanks Barnacle. Has anyone created a replacement/comparison list which might be useful for those thinking about setting out on this daunting task?


Fiat Coupe 20VT
Alfa Romeo Spider
BMW X3
Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: Brilly1uk] #1625374
25/09/2018 11:51
25/09/2018 11:51
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Lightwater, Surrey
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It's something I've been thinking about for a while. I've started to make an inventory of connectors in the engine compartment (others around the car have survived intact, it must be the engine heat that makes them split over time) and there is a mix of AMP Superseal and JPT (with boots) and Delphi MetriPack (no boots) plus others that I have come across. I'd also like a new boot for the brake fluid level switch, not sure where to look for that, I don't know the OE manufacturer.

I've got a cheap set of connector pin extractors on the way, first step is to see if I can get any of the pins out of any connectors...

The original "concertina" boots seem to be readily available on eBay, but perhaps not all sizes.

Last edited by DaveG; 25/09/2018 11:52. Reason: Started...

1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: Brilly1uk] #1625378
25/09/2018 14:20
25/09/2018 14:20

K
KBT
Unregistered
KBT
Unregistered
K



mr.obsessed on ebay usually has boots, the type Neil has linked seem to be fitted on Alfa 145 and Lancia Thema where the coupe has a concertina type.
Female superseal are easy, just needs a small screwdriver.
Males require removal tool for the red clip. I think a big factor in the damage over time of engine bay boots is also the human maulage.
Did the fluid reservior connector originally have a boot?

Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: Brilly1uk] #1625382
25/09/2018 16:11
25/09/2018 16:11
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Berlin
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Yes.


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: Brilly1uk] #1625384
25/09/2018 16:58
25/09/2018 16:58

K
KBT
Unregistered
KBT
Unregistered
K



I haven`t found a picture of a car with one yet.
How about the screen wash pump connector? laugh
I have found 3waycomp on ebay very useful.

Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: Brilly1uk] #1625415
26/09/2018 13:02
26/09/2018 13:02
Joined: Dec 2005
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Here's a picture of of the brake fluid level switch boot clicky (with some self-amalgamating tape wrapped around to keep it in one piece, and removed from reservoir whilst doing some work on the brakes)

Here'e a collection of parts I bought well over 10 years when looking to make up a batch of Sykes ACR harnesses (I still have all the parts, I ought to make them up and shift them on rolleyes ). And the all important rubber boots - note that I got them from Fiat!

And here's how a typical AMP Superseal connector goes together with female connector with male pins and male connector and female pins

There are 3 sizes for the terminal pins and the little seals (yellow, green and red).

I suppose it's always possible that Fiat might still have stock of some of the boots, I will investigate that along with other sources whilst making up my inventory/shopping list...


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: Brilly1uk] #1625425
26/09/2018 17:30
26/09/2018 17:30
Joined: Dec 2005
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The different terminal pin sizes relate to the cables that crimp correctly to them. As far as I recall the mating surfaces are the same size and compatible between sizes.


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: DaveG] #1625432
26/09/2018 19:32
26/09/2018 19:32
Joined: Apr 2012
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Glos
Brilly1uk Offline OP
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Originally Posted By DaveG
Here's a picture of of the brake fluid level switch boot clicky (with some self-amalgamating tape wrapped around to keep it in one piece, and removed from reservoir whilst doing some work on the brakes)

Here'e a collection of parts I bought well over 10 years when looking to make up a batch of Sykes ACR harnesses (I still have all the parts, I ought to make them up and shift them on rolleyes ). And the all important rubber boots - note that I got them from Fiat!

And here's how a typical AMP Superseal connector goes together with female connector with male pins and male connector and female pins

There are 3 sizes for the terminal pins and the little seals (yellow, green and red).

I suppose it's always possible that Fiat might still have stock of some of the boots, I will investigate that along with other sources whilst making up my inventory/shopping list...


That was excellent foresight DaveG!
It would be great to know we could still get hold of these or fit for purpose alternatives?


Fiat Coupe 20VT
Alfa Romeo Spider
BMW X3
Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: Brilly1uk] #1625456
27/09/2018 09:21
27/09/2018 09:21
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 975
Behind Enemy Lines
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I echo Brilly1uk,

My connectors are in the normal ravaged condition.

And with poor connections and bad earths affecting many a owners coupe- these are on the to do list.

Regards

MM

Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: Brilly1uk] #1625536
29/09/2018 13:55
29/09/2018 13:55
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A few photos showing the ongoing nearside welding repairs.
click to enlarge click to enlarge click to enlarge click to enlarge


Fiat Coupe 20VT
Alfa Romeo Spider
BMW X3
Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: Brilly1uk] #1625537
29/09/2018 14:02
29/09/2018 14:02
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...and a few more showing the rust to the nearside floor.
click to enlarge click to enlarge


Fiat Coupe 20VT
Alfa Romeo Spider
BMW X3
Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: Brilly1uk] #1625539
29/09/2018 14:17
29/09/2018 14:17
Joined: Aug 2007
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Southsea
G
Gunzi Offline
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Looks like some reasonable surgery to correct the rot, post up once all complete thumb

Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: Brilly1uk] #1625540
29/09/2018 14:59
29/09/2018 14:59
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Originally Posted By Brilly1uk
...and a few more showing the rust to the nearside floor.
click to enlarge
click to enlarge


For viewing first pic...



This looks like the shape of things to come Mark for many of us. Great that you're going to the trouble smile


BumbleBee carer smile
Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: Brilly1uk] #1625550
29/09/2018 17:34
29/09/2018 17:34
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Glos
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Hopefully not Simon - I think I have just been a bit unlucky! frown

When I first acquired the car I had it looked over to see what the rust situation was like before deciding to invest too much, and was given a fairly decent bill of health.

Perhaps father time has just caught up with mine?

However moving forward - breaking it down into different steps has hopefully helped make significant progress. smile
I was hoping this time around, I would get all the major cosmetics done, but as the nearside rust refurb proved as needy as the offside, the front and rear bumper repaint will have to wait!


Fiat Coupe 20VT
Alfa Romeo Spider
BMW X3
Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: Gunzi] #1625552
29/09/2018 17:38
29/09/2018 17:38
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Posts: 2,162
Glos
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Originally Posted By Gunzi
Looks like some reasonable surgery to correct the rot, post up once all complete thumb


Thanks Gunzi - will do!


Fiat Coupe 20VT
Alfa Romeo Spider
BMW X3
Re: 20vt Porto to do list.... [Re: Brilly1uk] #1625553
29/09/2018 17:45
29/09/2018 17:45
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,162
Glos
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This is helping fill the Coupe void while the Porto is away. click to enlarge


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Alfa Romeo Spider
BMW X3
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