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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Flea] #1408540
03/02/2013 14:02
03/02/2013 14:02
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,614
Bucks
jame5 Offline
I need some sleep
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Posts: 2,614
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Originally Posted By: Flea
Looks like an interesting day, good old Dyno Dynamics lottery! It would be great if everyone could post their graphs, gives a much better understanding of the performance than just peak figures.

James, was the boost level correct all the way to the limiter? If yes, then I would be looking to a transmission problem i.e. low pressue in tyres, binding brake etc, as the wheel power is low for your setup. That's the single biggest problem with the DD dyno, it doesn't give any clues to the problem. On my dyno it would measure the transmission losses so you would see a big discrepancy between wheel power and flywheel power (which would remain constant). We had a Focus ST in last month, first run it made 340bhp, second run it made 340bhp but wheel power was way down... the reason was a punctured tyre!





No boost levels grr as my vacuum hoses were secured with hoseclips and a slot head screwdriver wasn't immediately to hand they decided to do the run without boost readings banghead
I have noticed a little clutch slip on full boost occasionally but i would have thought that they would have noticed that on the run?


Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: jame5] #1408544
03/02/2013 14:19
03/02/2013 14:19
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,831
Haslemere, Surrey
M
Mark_S Offline
Forum is my job
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M

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,831
Haslemere, Surrey
Quote:
No boost levels grr as my vacuum hoses were secured with hoseclips and a slot head screwdriver wasn't immediately to hand they decided to do the run without boost readings banghead
I have noticed a little clutch slip on full boost occasionally but i would have thought that they would have noticed that on the run?


Don't you carry a basic set of tools in your car? frown

Last edited by Begbie; 03/02/2013 15:35. Reason: Fixed quoting

997 C4S
Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: jame5] #1408548
03/02/2013 14:30
03/02/2013 14:30
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,670
SW London
Rudidudi Offline
My life on the forum
Rudidudi  Offline
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SW London
for a power run I wouldnt expect the RR operators to do any form of diagnostics. its a production line of roll on roll off and get your graph.

For 35 quid each owner should make sure the car is ready, that's why you dont pay 250-500 quid wink

ok maybe they could pick up on stuff, but i wouldnt expect that... else it turns into a workshop event were everyone wants things fixed as opposed to a rr shoot out...

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Begbie] #1408560
03/02/2013 15:15
03/02/2013 15:15
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,614
Bucks
jame5 Offline
I need some sleep
jame5  Offline
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I only had a socket set with me at the time and wasn't given any time to try and borrow a screwdriver, despite being in a workshop full of tool boxes. I didn't expect any diagnostics or anything fixed, just a couple of minutes to undo one hoseclip, not too much to ask. It sounds like i'm bitching after getting a low reading but i'm not, it's not their fault, they did what they were paid to do. I just felt a bit rushed in and out and a boost reading would really help figure out what the problem could be.


Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: ] #1408577
03/02/2013 15:56
03/02/2013 15:56
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,693
Midlands
MCMike Offline
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MCMike  Offline
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Midlands
Originally Posted By: johnnybravoturbo
Originally Posted By: MCMike
Great day :-

272 bhp
275 lbs/ft torque
1.2 bar

unmapped and running on a 226,000 mile engine cool

Biggenz & Barbz's cars were incredible, as was the Skyline



I knew you were pushing 300bhp when you were on my bumper at brize norton airbase.
But I did beat you with the bravo laugh bloody close mind you.


That was a great day at Brize Norton John, that Bravo was rapid.

My boost on the Surrey RR was 1.2 bar at 3500 rpm, but had tailed away to 0.8 bar at 6000 rpm.

Talking to Porky Paul today (and riding shotgun in his car at 1.35 bar !)I'm thinking maybe I should invest in a decent boost controller ?


1972 Triumph Stag
1984 Alfasud TI
1999 Fiat Coupe Turbo LE
2005 350Z




Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: MCMike] #1408589
03/02/2013 16:29
03/02/2013 16:29
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,693
Midlands
MCMike Offline
Forum is my job
MCMike  Offline
Forum is my job

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,693
Midlands
My graphs :-


click to enlarge

click to enlarge

click to enlarge

would a boost controller hold boost longer ?

Comments welcome


1972 Triumph Stag
1984 Alfasud TI
1999 Fiat Coupe Turbo LE
2005 350Z




Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: MCMike] #1408591
03/02/2013 16:34
03/02/2013 16:34

P
proccy
Unregistered
proccy
Unregistered
P



You have a ginger mullet............well you did say comments welcome laugh

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Begbie] #1408593
03/02/2013 16:49
03/02/2013 16:49
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 548
Oxford
Sean_C Offline
Club member 2023
Sean_C  Offline
Club member 2023
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 548
Oxford
click to enlarge
click to enlarge
click to enlarge

Here's mine. I got to say I'm broken by the HeartBreaker!!

I have also scanned the last RR session graph at Owen Developments for comparison purposes.

click to enlarge

The plots of the two graphs are very similar right up to approx 5000 revs ,it's then the obvious differences occur.Dropping to 1 Bar of boost by 5500 revs didn't help, where I seem to remember at Owen's holding 1.3 BAR wasn't a problem.The Coop was still on a Novitec chip back then but has since been mapped by Flea.


Im sorry, I still have not worked out how to link a photo properly even after all these years. If somebody would be kind enough ...................

Oh yes, thanks to Gunzi for the organizing of course and always good to see/meet old/new faces.

Last edited by Begbie; 03/02/2013 17:12. Reason: Fixed the image tags

Enjoying Coop ownership, second time round . Also enjoying RWD action in a thundering V8 E90 M3.
Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Begbie] #1408602
03/02/2013 17:13
03/02/2013 17:13
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 548
Oxford
Sean_C Offline
Club member 2023
Sean_C  Offline
Club member 2023
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 548
Oxford
The Nissan GTR was amazing!! Impressive stuff, as was Barbz' and Biggenz' Coops. Was good to meet you at last Pero.


Enjoying Coop ownership, second time round . Also enjoying RWD action in a thundering V8 E90 M3.
Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Begbie] #1408608
03/02/2013 17:27
03/02/2013 17:27
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 548
Oxford
Sean_C Offline
Club member 2023
Sean_C  Offline
Club member 2023
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 548
Oxford
Thanks Begbie!


Enjoying Coop ownership, second time round . Also enjoying RWD action in a thundering V8 E90 M3.
Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Sean_C] #1408615
03/02/2013 17:51
03/02/2013 17:51
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,293
Sandhurst
Begbie Offline OP
Ex El Presidente
Begbie  Offline OP
Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,293
Sandhurst
Originally Posted By: Sean_C
Thanks Begbie!

No worries, you can't use the image button but you need to use :

Code:
[imgpop]http://www.abc.com/image1.jpg[/imgpop]


Originally Posted by Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: jame5] #1408624
03/02/2013 18:09
03/02/2013 18:09
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,670
SW London
Rudidudi Offline
My life on the forum
Rudidudi  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,670
SW London
Originally Posted By: jame5
I only had a socket set with me at the time and wasn't given any time to try and borrow a screwdriver, despite being in a workshop full of tool boxes. I didn't expect any diagnostics or anything fixed, just a couple of minutes to undo one hoseclip, not too much to ask. It sounds like i'm bitching after getting a low reading but i'm not, it's not their fault, they did what they were paid to do. I just felt a bit rushed in and out and a boost reading would really help figure out what the problem could be.


hmmm, sounds a bit harsh, but i guess they are only interested in getting people on and off the rollers.

at least now you know what needs looking at ....

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Rudidudi] #1408626
03/02/2013 18:14
03/02/2013 18:14

T
tim42
Unregistered
tim42
Unregistered
T



Originally Posted By: Rudidudi
Originally Posted By: jame5
I only had a socket set with me at the time and wasn't given any time to try and borrow a screwdriver, despite being in a workshop full of tool boxes. I didn't expect any diagnostics or anything fixed, just a couple of minutes to undo one hoseclip, not too much to ask. It sounds like i'm bitching after getting a low reading but i'm not, it's not their fault, they did what they were paid to do. I just felt a bit rushed in and out and a boost reading would really help figure out what the problem could be.


hmmm, sounds a bit harsh, but i guess they are only interested in getting people on and off the rollers.

at least now you know what needs looking at ....


The guy (Charlie) spent some time after my run explaining to Barbz and myself what he thought were the issues... fair play to him.

And he needed to manhandle some breezeblocks to keep Barbz' car on the rollers crazy

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: ] #1408647
03/02/2013 18:50
03/02/2013 18:50

B
Barbz
Unregistered
Barbz
Unregistered
B



Quote:
And he needed to manhandle some breezeblocks to keep Barbz' car on the rollers


Been using Charlie coming on 9 years now and we've had some real heart stopping moments on his dyno. Proper power! crazy hehe

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: ] #1408656
03/02/2013 19:18
03/02/2013 19:18
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,563
Northampton England
Sedicivalvole Offline
Forum is my life
Sedicivalvole  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,563
Northampton England
Originally Posted By: proccy
You have a ginger mullet............well you did say comments welcome laugh


rolleyes


Vinci Grey LE
Alfa 147 GTA 3.2 V6
BMW E92 M3 4.0 V8
Fiat Tipo Sedicivalvole 2.0 16v ABS
Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Sedicivalvole] #1408666
03/02/2013 20:01
03/02/2013 20:01

P
proccy
Unregistered
proccy
Unregistered
P



Originally Posted By: Sedicivalvole
Originally Posted By: proccy
You have a ginger mullet............well you did say comments welcome laugh


rolleyes


Stop clogging up the thread, Sam will get you laugh

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Begbie] #1408680
03/02/2013 20:55
03/02/2013 20:55
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,057
Southsea
G
Gunzi Offline
Club member 189, Former Club President
Gunzi  Offline
Club member 189, Former Club President
Je suis un Coupé
G

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,057
Southsea
Sean I wrote a step by step how to post an image, it's a sticky in the Coupe related chat section. As bet is has said it's all in the IMGPOP.

James, I think the issue you had was your running position. Charlie was saying around the time you ran his helper with the mo hawk was complaining that there were still ~9 runs left, which may go some way to explaining the rushed feeling you had. Fred was 2nd on the rollers and ran 317 rather than the 350 he was expecting charlie took the time to explain potential issues to look at.

I hope you can get it sorted and sorry you didn't get quite the experience others did.

One thing I can say is you won the award for most gleaming Coupe of the day, with Pero a very close second! Me, well when I got back I saw I'd missed a bit on my door when giving it a quick wash on Friday...!

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Gunzi] #1408691
03/02/2013 21:13
03/02/2013 21:13
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,614
Bucks
jame5 Offline
I need some sleep
jame5  Offline
I need some sleep

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,614
Bucks
Originally Posted By: Gunzi
Sean I wrote a step by step how to post an image, it's a sticky in the Coupe related chat section. As bet is has said it's all in the IMGPOP.

James, I think the issue you had was your running position. Charlie was saying around the time you ran his helper with the mo hawk was complaining that there were still ~9 runs left, which may go some way to explaining the rushed feeling you had. Fred was 2nd on the rollers and ran 317 rather than the 350 he was expecting charlie took the time to explain potential issues to look at.

I hope you can get it sorted and sorry you didn't get quite the experience others did.

One thing I can say is you won the award for most gleaming Coupe of the day, with Pero a very close second! Me, well when I got back I saw I'd missed a bit on my door when giving it a quick wash on Friday...!


I did get the feeling they were getting a bit tired, to be fair i didn't see them take a break all day and there where still cars waiting after we left. I still enjoyed the day and thanks for organising everything. I would be happy to go back again when the cars sorted, i'll just make sure i get in first wink
I have a few short video clips i'm trying to sort out at the moment, i'll post them up when i figure it all out (new camera) .


Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Begbie] #1408716
03/02/2013 22:56
03/02/2013 22:56
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,293
Sandhurst
Begbie Offline OP
Ex El Presidente
Begbie  Offline OP
Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,293
Sandhurst
Originally Posted By: jame5
I did get the feeling they were getting a bit tired, to be fair i didn't see them take a break all day and there where still cars waiting after we left

Probably not helped by all the other non coupes running first hehe


Originally Posted by Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Sean_C] #1408737
04/02/2013 08:01
04/02/2013 08:01

B
Barbz
Unregistered
Barbz
Unregistered
B



Quote:




Here's mine. I got to say I'm broken by the HeartBreaker!!

I have also scanned the last RR session graph at Owen Developments for comparison purposes.



The plots of the two graphs are very similar right up to approx 5000 revs ,it's then the obvious differences occur.Dropping to 1 Bar of boost by 5500 revs didn't help, where I seem to remember at Owen's holding 1.3 BAR wasn't a problem.The Coop was still on a Novitec chip back then but has since been mapped by Flea.


Im sorry, I still have not worked out how to link a photo properly even after all these years. If somebody would be kind enough ...................

Oh yes, thanks to Gunzi for the organizing of course and always good to see/meet old/new fact


Your problem stems from the power sapping 10afr fuel mixture. shocked So not the end of the world, an easy fix.

Dont worry mate, i've had to settle for 485hp on the day as 0.25bar boost went walkies somewhere.
But great day anyway, got to catch up with some old/new faces.

Begbie's old 16vt was mighty impressive beast also. thumb


Last edited by Barbz; 04/02/2013 08:02.
Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: ] #1408739
04/02/2013 08:14
04/02/2013 08:14
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,829
kidderminster
nick_d Offline
My life on the forum
nick_d  Offline
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Posts: 1,829
kidderminster
What is it with dynos, some cars go one and have no problem getting full boost, yet others its a lottery, mine NEVER gets to full boost on any of the 3 Dynos I've been on!
0.3 bar & 0.2 bar short both times been on dastek,
0.25 bar short on dyno jet!!
Quite frustrating!! smile

Nick



368bhp @ 1.5 bar
Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Begbie] #1408741
04/02/2013 08:18
04/02/2013 08:18

B
Biggenz
Unregistered
Biggenz
Unregistered
B



I've been very lucky in that respect. I normally hold full boost all the way to the redline, dyno or road. My turbo and wastegate combination seem to be working very well together.

2.15bar all the way to 8krpm in 4th on Saturday! laugh

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Begbie] #1408746
04/02/2013 08:45
04/02/2013 08:45
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,904
Poland
deannn_20VT Offline
My life on the forum
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Posts: 1,904
Poland
I noticed the same thing... I was some 0.25 bar short whereas on the road it's 1.4bar to the redline...

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Begbie] #1408751
04/02/2013 09:27
04/02/2013 09:27

N
Nobby
Unregistered
Nobby
Unregistered
N



Good to see everyone. Some epic cars on show as always - never seen a GTR or GT3 on the dyno so thank for those chaps for bringing them.

I'll definately bring the RS6 down for a dyno meet soon. Just need the bumper fixing and a remap - then to unleash 500+ bhp and 600 lbs/ft laugh

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Begbie] #1408758
04/02/2013 09:58
04/02/2013 09:58
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,725
London
kj16v Offline
My life on the forum
kj16v  Offline
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Posts: 1,725
London
Hope you guys don't mind me posting here. Afterall, Dyno Dynamics rollers are supposed to be designed to be comparable to each other no matter where they are:

I originally planned to go to the SRR meet but other commitments meant that I wasn't going to make it. So a few weeks ago I took a sneaky run on the Dyno Dynamics at Subaru 4 You in Newbury. Note it was actually run in the correct mode; Shoot 4F!

click to enlarge

VIDEO


Original printout, from the Dyno Star dyno that I mapped the car on
click to enlarge

Observations: The DD didn't load the engine enough below 4000 rpm, resulting in the turbo spooling up more slowly than it would on the road. Hence the torque before 4500 rpm looking a lot lower than it should be.

But peak torque and power are much closer. On the DD, the Coupe made 393 bhp / 380 lbsft @ 1.5 bar. Compared to 403 bhp/ 385 lbsft on the Dyno Star. Less than 3% difference - well within acceptable error considering different dyno, ramp rate, weather conditions, etc. Heart definitely not broken!

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Begbie] #1408807
04/02/2013 14:22
04/02/2013 14:22

D
Deme
Unregistered
Deme
Unregistered
D



Originally Posted By: Begbie
I'm back already as I'm meant to be on the way to a 60th birthday, but thought I would kick this off.

My results are :

399.2bhp
385ft/lbs
1.35bar solid

I'll let Barbz and Biggez say how much their hearts are broken hehe


Hey Buddy,

Nice result! How come you are only running 1.35bar?

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Begbie] #1408813
04/02/2013 14:45
04/02/2013 14:45
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,293
Sandhurst
Begbie Offline OP
Ex El Presidente
Begbie  Offline OP
Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,293
Sandhurst
No idea, on the road it's always 1.5bar, but on the dyno it's less. I had this years ago pre engine blow up, used to run 1.4bar on the road, but only showed 1.2 on the dyno.

Just finished scanning my graphs in as well.

click to enlarge click to enlarge click to enlarge


Originally Posted by Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Begbie] #1408824
04/02/2013 15:47
04/02/2013 15:47

D
Deme
Unregistered
Deme
Unregistered
D



Originally Posted By: Begbie
No idea, on the road it's always 1.5bar, but on the dyno it's less. I had this years ago pre engine blow up, used to run 1.4bar on the road, but only showed 1.2 on the dyno.

Just finished scanning my graphs in as well.

click to enlarge click to enlarge click to enlarge


Ah I see! The loading on the car is different between the two perhaps. For instance my car makes more boost in the higher gears...

Ps Thats a really steep power curve! Must feel awesome on the road!

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: ] #1408832
04/02/2013 16:34
04/02/2013 16:34
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,563
Northampton England
Sedicivalvole Offline
Forum is my life
Sedicivalvole  Offline
Forum is my life

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,563
Northampton England
Originally Posted By: Barbz

Sedicivalvole's old 16v was mighty impressive beast also. thumb



Thanks Barbz laugh


Vinci Grey LE
Alfa 147 GTA 3.2 V6
BMW E92 M3 4.0 V8
Fiat Tipo Sedicivalvole 2.0 16v ABS
Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Sedicivalvole] #1408833
04/02/2013 16:36
04/02/2013 16:36

B
Barbz
Unregistered
Barbz
Unregistered
B



laugh
Your welcome!

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