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Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... #1607011
31/08/2017 05:27
31/08/2017 05:27
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Just supposing someone was unwise enough to buy a very cheap, 2000 MY 4-litre V8 S-Type Jag, with a view to having some fun, what would be the best way to tune some extra horses from it (without spending a fortune) and which exhaust would give the most ridiculous, head-turning noise, whilst still scraping through an MOT?

Pics may follow, depending on whether it passes its medical!

Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1607020
31/08/2017 09:50
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NOS kit and straight pipes front to back laugh

Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1607026
31/08/2017 11:26
31/08/2017 11:26
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Be careful with exhausts - I seem to recall from Motormech's time as a Longlife franchisee that the V8 Jags can be epically loud without enough silencing

I'd suggest the safest (and cheapest) route is simply to remove the rear boxes and fire it up. If you can live with the noise, get some lengths of pipe made up to replace the rear boxes and you're away

As for tuning - a remap is the easiest way - anything more than that and you're into big money for little gain.

Watch out for timing chain rattles....


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Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1607046
31/08/2017 15:43
31/08/2017 15:43
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Dazvr6 - that sounds like my kind of solution. However, I'm not sure it will slip through the MOT tester's net (or last more than one blast on the NOS before it disintegrates...)

Nigel - similarly, epically loud sounds like the effect we're after (though perhaps not after a 2-hour drive...), but would "lengths of pipe" meet with plod's approval?

Incidentally, any overrun flames will be most welcome at this party...

Any more ideas?

Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1607047
31/08/2017 16:09
31/08/2017 16:09
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I think even rear silencer removal should provide a fairly loud bark and still be under the 95dB permitted for road use. thumb

Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1607054
31/08/2017 18:53
31/08/2017 18:53
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Originally Posted By Jim_Clennell
Nigel - similarly, epically loud sounds like the effect we're after (though perhaps not after a 2-hour drive...), but would "lengths of pipe" meet with plod's approval?


Shouldn't be a problem - at the end of the day, the backboxes are just a length of pipe anyway - its just that one bit is very fat. You're simply replacing the fat bit (ie the silencer) with a narrow bit. As long as it's secure, plod should have no issues (unless the noise is breaking windows, setting off alarms at 200 yards and causing kittens to go deaf.... rolleyes )


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Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: Dazvr6] #1607084
01/09/2017 08:32
01/09/2017 08:32
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Originally Posted By Dazvr6
NOS kit and straight pipes front to back laugh


Almost spat my coffee out yes yes rofl rofl


997 C4S
Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1607093
01/09/2017 09:54
01/09/2017 09:54
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It would sound epic! hehe

Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1607097
01/09/2017 10:13
01/09/2017 10:13
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Will you start wearing a carcoat, and a trilby, smoking cigars and asking Dave in The Winchester for a large VAT, Arfur?




Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: oxfordSteve] #1607099
01/09/2017 10:34
01/09/2017 10:34
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Originally Posted By oxfordSteve
Will you start wearing a carcoat, and a trilby, smoking cigars and asking Dave in The Winchester for a large VAT, Arfur?


Whats' this "Will you start" stuff! laugh


[Linked Image]www.chrisdoyle-photography.co.uk

Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: came2dance] #1607107
01/09/2017 11:15
01/09/2017 11:15
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Originally Posted By came2dance
Originally Posted By oxfordSteve
Will you start wearing a carcoat, and a trilby, smoking cigars and asking Dave in The Winchester for a large VAT, Arfur?


Whats' this "Will you start" stuff! laugh



Ah good point!!




Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: came2dance] #1607127
01/09/2017 18:32
01/09/2017 18:32
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Originally Posted By came2dance
Originally Posted By oxfordSteve
Will you start wearing a carcoat, and a trilby, smoking cigars and asking Dave in The Winchester for a large VAT, Arfur?


Whats' this "Will you start" stuff! laugh


How very dare you? Terence, show these gentlemen The door!

Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1607317
05/09/2017 06:49
05/09/2017 06:49
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Hmm. Some research indicates that exhaust noise is a very grey area - legally speaking.

This information from the VCA suggests 74dB is the limit for new petrol on-road cars. It also reckons that a car should not make more noise than it did when the model was type approved.

I had no idea that people were such killjoys!

Might still try it anyway, just be sensible when in built up areas, late at night, etc.

The issue for those trying to slap penalty notices on motorists is how to prove the infringement, given the difficulty of recreating the particular conditions used to take the original readings.

Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1607322
05/09/2017 07:20
05/09/2017 07:20
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An alternative option. My local exhaust specialist makes a switchable system. You press a button and a valve closes, cutting off the second silencer and making the full V8 roar. Then you can turn it back to "considerate mode" afterwards.

Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1607324
05/09/2017 07:27
05/09/2017 07:27

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I think you are worrying too much about exhaust noise. Used to run my A35, with 5.7 sbc on the road with next to no silencing. never had any plod problems.
currently driving around in totally un silenced 1641cc Volksrod. 4 pipes straight out from engine. again no probs from plod

Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1607329
05/09/2017 09:03
05/09/2017 09:03
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I think I would like at middle section silencers rather than tail ones to improve the noise.

With the 4.0 V8 it is the cam chain tensioners you need to check - they were plastic and crack eventually. If they've been done the engine is pretty tough. Get OBD codes read though to see if there are any hidden faults.


Andy

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Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1607379
06/09/2017 05:40
06/09/2017 05:40
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Thanks all. I'm having the Jag serviced - including the cam chain tensioners (Nigel also mentions these above) before embarking on any long trips. The pressure switch on the (mighty) power steering failed on the drive home from picking the car up, leaving a vast puddle of fluid on the forecourt of our unit. The seller agreed to pay half for the repair, so I'm calling that a draw! There are a few electrical niggles, but overall it's not too bad.
I'm looking into an exhaust cut-out valve to provide a Jekyll/Hyde noise solution.

Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1607489
07/09/2017 18:33
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This is the place that fitted my exhaust. Yes, the guy is South African. Grroit accent men.

Please ignore the ridiculous techno music, but it shows a V8 with a switchable exhaust system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWjUPYVL-us

Here is an Audi S5 with the system fitted. Quiet at the start, loud at the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvZ-SqB0NyA

Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1607665
11/09/2017 08:13
11/09/2017 08:13
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The other major weak point is the Ford gearbox. A fluid change every 50-70k miles is essential. At least it uses cheap Dexron III and is easy-ish to do. I really would not try and get more power out of it as you will send that 5R55N to an early grave.

Drop links and ABRs rattle. New links and bushes and good alignment is essential for the car to feel nice. The front brakes are a bit small and don't suit low-friction pads. Buy the best you can get (Jaguar/Jurid 233).

There is a longer list of secondary problems that you might experience but the jaguarforum.com guys are pretty knowledgeable and friendly as long as you keep away from the political discussions!


1997 20V
2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR
2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD
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Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1607740
12/09/2017 13:30
12/09/2017 13:30
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Thanks Neil - duly noted. Even if we do remap the car, it won't be getting thrashed, or indeed used very often, so hopefully it won't object too much!

We wafted over to Santa Pod in the Jag last Sunday for a rather disappointingly cold and damp European Finals day. The car went fine, although the list of bits that don't work has grown to include:

- the heating
- cruise control
- rear passenger door lock (which disables remote central locking)
- door mirror adjustment
- both rear electric windows (though both motors seem to be turning)
- Cigar lighter power (led to SatNav charging crisis!)

So, nothing serious then. And it is a hoot.

Just wait until MrsC puts her new paint job on it...

Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1607741
12/09/2017 13:55
12/09/2017 13:55
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Not convinced remapping an N/A is going to achieve anything but the lighter wallet might improve the power to weight ratio smile

Heating: look into the heater distribution valve. Almost certainly dead (hopefully it has not taken the controller board out as well). Awkward job.

Rear passenger door lock: Had that one. Crappy microswitch in the locks. I would be tempted to replace the lock sooner rather than later in case it decides to jam locked. Usually means destroying the door card to get in and makes a fiddly job even harder.

Window regulators have some plastic parts that age and break. Can be cheaply replaced. Otherwise a complete new regulator is required but even they are not too much dosh. Btw, the adjusters in the headlights do this too and the headlight point down just in front of the bumper frown

Again a cheap part but the bumper has to come off to take the headlight out for the minor surgery.

I think the S-Type was very much underrated. Its deficiencies were not significant and now that it is old, the old looks fit. Look at an old Merc or BMW form the turn of the century and they look just plain old smile

Edit: There is a control pack in the drivers door which might be the cause of the problems with the mirrors ...

Last edited by neil_r; 12/09/2017 13:59.

1997 20V
2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR
2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD
2018 Mazda2 GT
Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1607746
12/09/2017 15:35
12/09/2017 15:35
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Thanks Neil.

Might simply go for the exhaust mod then, though that might require a bit of remapping to get the best out of it.

The car is going to our friendly local garage tomorrow, so I'll ask him to investigate the bits you've mentioned.

Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1607864
15/09/2017 05:27
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Hi Jim, how's the Jag coming on?


1997 20V
2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR
2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD
2018 Mazda2 GT
Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1607874
15/09/2017 08:58
15/09/2017 08:58
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If the heater pump is the same as on the XK8 it will probably be that which is the heater problem - a pig of a job on the XK because the pump is just in the transmission tunnel above the gearbox so not easy to get at, maybe different in the S-Type.

Cruise control - are you getting a dashboard warning about it and check rear lights? If so it is probably the brake light switch which has two elements - one for the brake lights and the other for the cruise control.

Check the fuse for the cigar lighter, that was the issue I had with mine so a nice easy fix!

Make sure you post pictures of the paint job!


Andy

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Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1607891
15/09/2017 15:40
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The Jag has been serviced, but the garage hasn't worked through the list of niggles. Should have more news next week.

Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1608739
30/09/2017 20:27
30/09/2017 20:27
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Originally Posted By Jim_Clennell
We kept speculating as to how the Jag will sound in comparison to the legion of delicious V8's on display today. Time will tell - it's off to Pro Speed in a week... Hopefully, it may spend time in Flea's tender care afterwards...!


To me, who values engine sound above car looks and handling dynamics, I'm drooling at the thought of how your Jag may sound.
Never had a V8, although I'm up to a V6.

Who are Prospeed?

Last edited by HiraethHuw; 30/09/2017 20:28.
Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1608759
01/10/2017 08:54
01/10/2017 08:54
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See Gripped's post above. Pro-Speed is a Cardiff-based firm run by "Charlie" the South African guru!

We've been using the Jag as a test-bed for our new ChipsAway recruit, so the bodywork is slowly getting fixed up - no progress as yet on flames!

I'm going to be driving it up to Kidderminster tomorrow for a work meeting, which will be its first outing since being serviced.

I'm hoping it's not too cold as we haven't fixed the heater or other niggles!

Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1612200
26/11/2017 19:37
26/11/2017 19:37
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The first thing I will say about our Jag's exhaust saga is that the result is - unequivocally - fabulous.
Unfortunately, I didn't record the subtle tones of the V8 before we took the car to Cardiff, so I can't do a before and after.

We always intended to find a way to make the car sound better - why have a V8 and bark yourself? - and with the recommendation from Gripped of this Parish, we decided to get a bespoke system made up by Pro-Speed and its owner, Charlie. The idea was to have a system with switchable electronic valves offering butter-wouldn't-melt whispering on one setting and yikes-what's-that?! on the other.
We duly delivered the Jag to Cardiff on 7th October, with the promise that it would be ready in a week to two weeks. The workshop looked a bit back-street, but hey, that's how true geniuses work. Whilst there, we selected some tasty twin oval rolled tips to complement the install.

We finally got the car back last Thursday, after 2 trips to Wales in the intervening weeks where we had been assured that it would be ready, but it wasn't. Excuses included:

- One of his workers had caught his hand in a chop saw and his parents were suing

- Gypsies had broken in to the workshop and stolen our exhaust

- Charlie had had to sack another of his crew, putting him behind schedule

- Someone had suffered a heart attack in the workshop.

Some or all of these may not actually be true.

Either way, every time another hold-up occurred, we begged Charlie to simply pick up the phone and tell us.

In the end, we were left feeling strongly that all was not well in Charlie's life. And we didn't get the twin tips...

No question, the man can build an exhaust, but he needs to sort himself and his communications skills out.

Anyway, here's the bit you've been waiting for...

S-Type with new "normal" exhaust

S-Type with "Blimey!" valves open

Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1612214
26/11/2017 22:31
26/11/2017 22:31
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Well, what can I say. It does sound awesome. smokin
I also think those end pipes suit the car well.

Sorry you had a poor experience along the way Jim. Having only used Prospeed the once, I can only go on my own experience which has been fine. I was also recommended them by someone else who is a proper tuning fiend. I hope you feel it was worth the trip.

Maybe he bit off more than he could chew or as you say, there are other issues going on. Last time I saw him, he was wearing a back brace !

I'd like to hear another video of it under load driving past at full throttle !

thumb

Re: Ropey 4.0 V8 Jag? What could possibly, etc... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1612220
27/11/2017 03:58
27/11/2017 03:58

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Sounds great!

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