Fiat Coupe Forum Fiat Coupe Forum
- Founded by Kayjey & James Northam - Funded by the Club for the benefit of all owners -
mixed RSS feedall RSS feeds
(this will scroll you to the RSS box)
Fiat Coupe Club UK
join the club
Fiat Coupe Forum
 
» Announced
    Old Forum BACK!
    Forum RSS feed!
    Images - finally!


» Related sites
    www.fiatcoupeclub.org
    www.fiatcoupe.net


» External data
    chatroom
    owners
 
Who's Online
5 registered (Morrison, avtokrator, ali_hire, Master_Mariner, OnlyItalian), 74 Guests and 8 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
2,608 Registered Members
65 Forums
108,874 Topics
1,295,525 Posts

Most users ever online: 546 @ 30/08/2007 19:16
Top Posters
stan 32079
barnacle 31764
Theresa 22716
bockers 20994
pinin_prestatyn 19865
PeteP 18591
JimO 17908
Nigel 16870
Jim_Clennell 16223
Vickster 15915
RSS Feeds
Club Events
Club Information
Track Events
Rolling Road/RWYB
Social Events
Non-UK Events
Coupé Related Chat
Coupé Spotting
Coupé News/Press
Buying/Selling Advice
Insuring a Coupé
Basic FAQ's
How to Guides
Forum Issues
Technical Problems
General Maintenance
Styling
Tuning
Handling
ICE and Alarm
Coupés for Sale
Coupés Wanted
Parts for Sale
Parts Wanted
Group Buys
Business Forum
Other Vehicles for Sale/Wanted
Other Items for Sale/Wanted
Haggling/Offers
Ebay links
Other Cars
Other Websites
General Chat
Topic Options
#1612223 - 27/11/2017 07:01 Fiat coupe 16VT coil on plug?
Shotdown Offline
Reaping the fruits

Registered: 07/08/2012
Posts: 79
Loc: Israel
Hello
does anyone knows a good alternativ for coil on plug for the 16VT ?

i have heard about conersion for Subaru impreza coil on plugs
and about coupe 20VT conversion

didnt find anything on the net which some one tells about what it needs.

does anyone try or done it?


thanks.
_________________________
GTX2871

Top
#1612230 - 27/11/2017 10:13 Re: Fiat coupe 16VT coil on plug? [Re: Shotdown]
Begbie Offline
Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop

Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 12082
Loc: Sandhurst
The question is why do you want to do this? If you're running standard ECU, then this is going to give you all sorts of headaches.
_________________________
Originally Posted By Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies

Top
#1612250 - 27/11/2017 15:57 Re: Fiat coupe 16VT coil on plug? [Re: Shotdown]
bojke Offline
On a journey

Registered: 26/10/2008
Posts: 192
Loc: Serbia
You need standalone to run coil on plug.I saw some people used VW coils for that.I have them on 20vt and they work perfect.

Top
#1612289 - 28/11/2017 07:48 Re: Fiat coupe 16VT coil on plug? [Re: Shotdown]
Shotdown Offline
Reaping the fruits

Registered: 07/08/2012
Posts: 79
Loc: Israel
well i dont like to oem ignition system
ecu uses 2 ignition modules to feed 2 ignition coils
which gives spark to 4 leads.

i would like to just convert the modules to work directly with coil of plug.

i know there is coupe's running 20VT coils or Subaru impreza coils with some modification to work with standart ECU


the car is heavilly modified
Forged engine with GTX2871

i have an option for a stand alone ECU which connected to the original loom

and i think the stock igniotion system will not do the job

too much wires and parts to give spark


i have scheme of the ignition modules and coils
and on the paper it looks "EASY"

for example the 20VT coils or most of coils
uses 3 pin connector
it has (+) (-) and (Signal)

i guess the (+) and (-) is kinda easy to work with

and the signal wire should get feed from modules
which by the scheme its pin (1) in each module.

but i will not do anything untill some one can confirm.


Edited by Shotdown (28/11/2017 07:52)
_________________________
GTX2871

Top
#1612307 - 28/11/2017 12:12 Re: Fiat coupe 16VT coil on plug? [Re: Shotdown]
Begbie Offline
Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop

Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 12082
Loc: Sandhurst
Well, I'm running 400bhp / 380lbs+ with a GT3076 and run a ford coil pack on standalone ECU and have 4 leads. No coil on plug and I have no issues with my ignition setup, so don't think it is necessary for your setup either
_________________________
Originally Posted By Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies

Top
#1612308 - 28/11/2017 12:12 Re: Fiat coupe 16VT coil on plug? [Re: Shotdown]
Scuderia Offline
My life on the forum

Registered: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1536
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Waste spark on a 4 cylinder is a solid setup. If you want coil on plug it shouldn't be that hard to configure if you're happy to keep waste spark, just wire up 2 circuits to each driver instead of one.



Edited by Scuderia (28/11/2017 12:20)

Top
#1612309 - 28/11/2017 12:38 Re: Fiat coupe 16VT coil on plug? [Re: Shotdown]
Shotdown Offline
Reaping the fruits

Registered: 07/08/2012
Posts: 79
Loc: Israel
ok
i dont have any problem stay's at the moment with wasted spark

i just want to take those coils and spark leads away.

and im pretty sure the standart ignition could handle 400bhp.

i just dont like the way the plugs get spark

too much parts and connectors are in to it for me.



scuderia from youre reply i understand you have any knowledge or you done this mode?

i guess i can use the 2 connectors of the coil's feed to connect coils on plug?

i mean each coil has 2 electric wires connected to him

one of them is signal which i guess if i touch it with a bulb tester i can see it flicker
and other one is (-) or (+) not sure about it since the coils are ground'd to metal braket which touch the engine so maybe this is their (-)


so i'll just have to use the 2 wires to feed double coils on plug?

and the same with the 2nd coil?


its just a guessing
_________________________
GTX2871

Top
#1612446 - 01/12/2017 10:32 Re: Fiat coupe 16VT coil on plug? [Re: Shotdown]
kj16v Offline
My life on the forum

Registered: 12/02/2008
Posts: 1702
Loc: London
As above, stock wasted spark ignition works just fine over 400 bhp. My own 16VT is 440 bhp / 400 lb-ft and I'm running a completely stock ignition system with irridium spark plugs, gapped to 0.6mm

Top
#1612526 - 03/12/2017 07:26 Re: Fiat coupe 16VT coil on plug? [Re: Shotdown]
Shotdown Offline
Reaping the fruits

Registered: 07/08/2012
Posts: 79
Loc: Israel
yes im sure most of coupe's using the stock ignition system.

as i said above i pretty sure it can hold the power im after.

its just that all the system is too "loopie" for me.
i mean - ecu wire run to 2 igniotion modules.
which they wired to 2 igniotion coils and they connected to igniontion leads.

i just wanted the modules to connected directly to the head (coil on plug).

i use iridion spark plugs too - 7's
and magnacore ignition leads.
i know the system work well since i dont have any missfire's or engine is not working smothe

if its a big job for gain nothing then i'll leave it as is.

but if its not that hard to do i'll prefer go for it,

that is why i opend this post to know if there is simple conversion.

smile
_________________________
GTX2871

Top
#1612777 - 08/12/2017 15:55 Re: Fiat coupe 16VT coil on plug? [Re: Shotdown]
kj16v Offline
My life on the forum

Registered: 12/02/2008
Posts: 1702
Loc: London
the wiring wouldn't be difficult, but the issue of physically fitting COPs is a completely different matter: You'd have to get ones that are the right length to reach the plug, but not stick out of the rocker cover, You've got to work out some way to bolt them down, because they don't clip on (at least 20VT ones don't). The plug cover proabably won't fit. Then you have to get the dwell time right in the ECU firmware.

And all for no performance gain!

Top
#1612780 - 08/12/2017 17:16 Re: Fiat coupe 16VT coil on plug? [Re: Shotdown]
kj16v Offline
My life on the forum

Registered: 12/02/2008
Posts: 1702
Loc: London
...Also, if you want actual sequential ignition, the stock ECU won't do it. Some aftermarket ECU can do it, but you will have to fit the correct crank position sensor ring to the crank pulley. And again for no gain!

Top
#1612865 - 11/12/2017 13:09 Re: Fiat coupe 16VT coil on plug? [Re: Shotdown]
Shotdown Offline
Reaping the fruits

Registered: 07/08/2012
Posts: 79
Loc: Israel
i know you are good tuner and done alot of changes over the years with coupe.

in about a monthe i install Motec M48 pro which is plug and play for the oem loom.

i know i need to change crank trigger wheele. usually Lancia thema is the right one to put with their crank sensor and bracket.


so i could go for COP for each cylinder instead wasted spark system.
i cant belive wasted spark system and COP system is the same with benefits.


the thing is i still have to use the OEM loom to wire COP
so thats kinda the thing here, if anyone has done it to the original loom so he could share info.

i know there isnt actually direct fit here and need some work

but there is some coupe's here in Israel who run's Audi R8 COP directly on the plug without any bolts or rocker cover work,
yes.. its a bit higher and the aluminum cover for the plugs and leads cannot be used unless you do some cutting work there and lift it a bit higher with some spacers

but its just a cosmetic issue.
_________________________
GTX2871

Top
#1612922 - 12/12/2017 13:06 Re: Fiat coupe 16VT coil on plug? [Re: Shotdown]
kj16v Offline
My life on the forum

Registered: 12/02/2008
Posts: 1702
Loc: London
The main advantage of COP for manufacturers is fewer seperate components to fit, therefore less time = more profit

The advantage of COP for performance only applies to very high revving engines; WS fires once per engine revolution, whereas COP only once per every 2 revolutions. On an engine that reaches 10k-12k rpm, WS coils may not have time to fully charge before firing. However, that isn't even close to being an issue on the 99.9999% cars that rev to 7k-8k rpm!

You can't fit actual sequentially fired COP to the original loom because it needs 4 seperate control wires; one for each coil. The original loom only has 2, so you two coils would share one control wire and would fire at the same time - which would defeat the purpose of COP! laugh

Top
#1612944 - 13/12/2017 07:57 Re: Fiat coupe 16VT coil on plug? [Re: Shotdown]
Shotdown Offline
Reaping the fruits

Registered: 07/08/2012
Posts: 79
Loc: Israel
Ahh
yeah i know. thats why i asked if there is anything to do with

so no metter what i'll kinda get WS coils even if i install COP? since the original loom cannot be "hacked" to deal 4 single's

unless i do whole new loom sick

uff
_________________________
GTX2871

Top