After many many years of flying to Italy we have been talking about a driving trip to Italy on and off now for a little while now. Not made any solid plans as of yet but time is marching on for 2018.

It was mentioned by my better half that the mode of transport for this trip should be our family Volvo v50. However I've just been asked rather surprisingly what car I'd like to take out of the Abarth 500 or the coupe turbo. Not sure the coupe is 100% mechanically ready for the round trip of 2400 miles. But I'd love to take the Abarth equally... after all it is an Italian trip.

We do have 2 small dogs that will be joining us on the trip so it will be a little tighter for space but possible I believe.

Has anyone experienced a driving trip to italy from the UK? In a coupe or something italian preferably. Any advice on the trip? We have already clocked up a few thousand miles of driving hire cars in Italy so know what to expect with driving.

Stampede of anniversary Turin-ers expected......

Oh yes

p.s. 2400 miles is nothing: Immediately after Joe and I got the 16NA back together after an engine rebuild and some rust fixin', I drove Herefordshire to Hertfordshire, and then 4,500 miles up to north west Norway and back.

For Italy, I prefer to go to Germany and turn right at Aachen, then cross Austria (fuel is cheap there) and into northern Italy conveniently close to the Stelvio Pass... Through France I'd use the A roads rather than the motorways; I hate paying for those and they ain't cheap. And besides, the A roads are significantly more interesting.

The A roads were excellent when I drove though france. It added time but was more interesting

Some practice for the next anniversary for us

Thanks Neil I will have a wee look at going via Germany. Don't know if I could persuade Pauline to go via the Stelvio though as she has seen some of the photos of the pass and I think she would rather pass on the pass but it would be a shame not to.

I've ben looking at something like this route. The Gottard pass looks well worth a visit.

Interesting to me as am doing Leicester to Tarquinia Italy in July to visit my sister. Am intending to go straight after the Silverstone Classic and I plan to take the overall trip in a 2-3 week period and probably go Eurotunnel then best road to Reims, then Strasbourg or Metz and into Switzerland. Then cross the Gotthard Pass and drop into Milan. Then Perhaps Pisa before last leg to Tarquinia. On the way back I will stop at the places I didn't on the way down, ie Lucerne. I would like to also visit Portofino if I get time and get a snap of my coupe by the town sign- after all its not every day that the colour of your car is so good that they name a place after it!

I have done Sheffield to Milan many times in various cars, including a Cinquecento, X19, F355 and most recently a 246 Dino - the latter 2 were not mine BTW.

Mention you are a member of a car club to P&O ferries and you will get a sizeable discount on the tickets, particularly on he over night crossings.

I have always taken in one of the Alpine passes, St Bernadino/Stelvio etc. Motoring abroad is so much easier than driving over here.

As for the cars, the Cinquecento was newish at the time, so I cant compare that to going in a 20+ year old car, but the other 3 have all been of similar age or older.
I have taken the Coupe to Le Mans a couple of times recently and it is a great car to drive abroad and whilst I haven't taken it as far as Italy, it takes on a different feel on the French A roads and it eats the miles up on the motorway and in more comfort than the 355.
The X19 and Dino, whilst capable, was much less comfortable and therefore more tiring, but at the same time, more rewarding in many ways, even with the minor issues that developed on the journey.

Got to take an Italian car though, the Police and road workers just wave you on and encourage you to go faster if your in anything interesting and Italian!

On the Turin trip, we took the "direct route" through the French toll roads (they are sooo good we don't mind paying) stopping overnight in Chambery. From there, it is an easy hop to Italy via the Frejus tunnel.

After Turin, the return leg was via the Aosta Valley, then up over the St Bernard pass, to Switzerland. Then we crossed over into Chamonix for a week of R&R. The Coupe was an extremely comfortable car for the trip... albeit the air con was kaput, so we roasted slowly in Italy. But hey, a bit of garlic and red wine, and we made a lovely casserole.

I've driven the Coupe to Italy twice, first was when it was pretty new and I just had to test the speedo up to 155mph on the Autobahns en route to Venice. Second time was the brilliant Turin trip in 2014, took a similar/quick route there (stayed overnight in Lyon) but on the way back went via the Stelvio pass and dropped in at the Nurburgring and the Abarth "museum" in Belgium

The Gotthard pass looks like a great road... though not sure about the adjacent road Tremola i think its called. Might be a few 3 point turns on it for the Coupe. And not sure I want to be stuck in the tunnel.
Lucerne for us I think will be a good place to stop overnight before the last stint to the lakes.
Portofino is a must stop it would be a shame for you not to and a great shot to look back at.
Enjoy the drive in July when it comes.

A great assortment of Italian cars to have done it in. Not sure my coupe is in tip top conditioned as it may have to be so the Abarth would be next inline though I don't think it would eat the miles up as easily as the coupe. Might have to get some extra padding for the sparco buckets if its the coupe we take. But it does have a higher driving position which helps with longer drives.

Did you look at one of those automatic things for going through the tolls?

Ah id have to get the a/c sorted out for sure and the sunroof opening especially for keeping the dogs happy.

Nope, we just used the credit card as usual. It's pretty quick. Queues like the Severn Bridge are very rare. It might be worth doing though if there are discounts to be had.

Air con would be a must in the summer. I still need to get mine sorted, despite replacing most of it already, it still aint working due to a minor leak somewhere.

Tried that on today with DFDS but didn't work however still managed to get a sizeable discount for booking early. And so we are on the ferry from Amsterdam to Holland... which is great as we shall be missing out most of the UK.

By taking the ferry we really only need to make one overnight stop. Lucerne looks a good place as any.

Can anyone recommend good breakdown cover? AA are offering discounts to existing members.

Explains the discount

Ha despite getting a price from them 2 days ago that was more.

Doris passed her MOT today with no advisories so my road trip to Italy is definitely on and I am pretty much booked and arranged.

After getting into France we will be stopping in Metz for a couple of days, then onto Andermatt for two days before Gotthard Pass and then down to Livorno (visit Pisa) and on to my sisters in Tarquinia. On the way back it will be Genoa for a couple, then Lausanne for a couple and then Luxembourg before heading back towards Calais.

The only thing I haven't booked so far is European breakdown cover- does anyone have a recommendation here?

The main recommendation is to be cautious and read the small print.

Many of the usual suspects will only cover recovery up to their valuation of the car if it's over ten years old (i.e. not a lot for a twenty year old coupe); if they predict it's more than that you'll get back but without the car, just with a cheque in your pocket.

You may need to talk to classic recovery companies.

So without that agreed value there would be trouble getting it home or it would heading for the nearest garage in Italy?

Or you contact me and I will recover you,but it will cost something.

Indeed I have been lucky to have been in such an assortment, obviously some a lot more than others! Although the Stelvio claimed brake failures in the Cinquecento and the Dino, so make sure yours are in very good order if going over if you plan on going over one of the more extreme Alpine passes!
The Cinq was down to worn pads and the Dino was a failed O-ring on some part of the brake system. It wasnt a nice feeling on either occasion!



I am surprised DFDS dont have similar offers as P&O in terms of discounts for motoring clubs. We saved well over £100 on an over night crossing a couple of years ago from Hull to Zebrugge

Classic Line insurance offer free European breakdown cover as part of the policy (or it might be a small charge option now). I havent used it, but my Dad has. He couldn't really fault it, the car was recovered back to the UK after the breakdown, and he was given a courtesy car to continue his trip. He said the only inconvenience was having to drop the loan car off at Calais and board as a foot passenger with the luggage and then wait for another one in Dover, which was to be expected.
The car was delivered to his house a couple of days after he got back. This was about 5-6 years ago mind, so things might have changed as is the norm with these policies being run more and more by numbers!

There is something in the small print about the value of the car vs recovery charges though as mentioned above, so have a chat with them to make sure you are covered.

^ I've also found ClassicLine helpful.

A few of these agencies seem to use the same insurance company for classic cars - Equity Red Star. But the conditions (and prices) can change markedly depending who you go with.

How much?

I read on a previous thread back in 2014 Glynwood offered full recovery back to UK. Is there anyone currently using Glynwood euro cover?

Brian, when Sarah worked for Glynwood a few years ago they were doing attractive deals for Coupe owners. They had me with ERS classic policy as above which included repatriation to UK say when I went to Spa, think it was 30 day maximum. Sadly Glynwood has "moved on"....

Might be worth a call to ERS direct and see what they say?

Ah I see. There is no mention on the Glynwood about breakdown cover.

Yep just been looking at your suggestion above. Ill give them a call as there doesn't look to be any online options.

Ive seen a few suggestions on here a while back about ADAC but my German is rather poor.

That would depend on where you would be at the time.

Interesting posts,

There must be something in the air- (brexit?)- as I'm in the process of planning a similar escape south - to take in Route Napoleon. Not too sure what route back yet...but maybe not via France.

Having a good uk resource to get you home sounds sensible...depending if you have a breakdown its somewhere accessible - you know outside the edge of a little bar near the a village in the south of france that are selling some nice local vino...rather then a breakdown lane of a motorway and the gendarmes wanting you moved and now.

Also that recent German visitor to UK made me think of the benefits of a friendly "hello"- to eu coupe clubs that your passing through may be an added protection?

Regards

MM

Don't think I'd mind too much being stuck in in Italy just so long as its not on the autostrada.

I like the idea of that maybe have to look up the coupe clubs on route.

Simon it seems ERS will only allow cover through a broker.

Has anyone that has travelled from the UK to Europe successfully applied online for ADAC breakdown? Oh and either knows the policy or can translate to English?

Funny, I had that suspicion Try Classicline?

No, on the second bit.... google translate any use?

I believe Barmybob has used Adac in the past.

Neil it seems most only offer up to the market value of the car if it needs to be recovered to the UK. that's truly worrying if it came to it being unrepairable.

LV Britannia is one company that doesn't use the market value of the car.

Ive now booked the ferry from Newcastle to Amsterdam so its taking out 800 miles off the coupes round trip.

Are there any car museums for a stop off? I've read that there's a good collection in Mulhouse.

Mulhouse is amazing. Save a day for that.

We stopped two or three days here: http://www.chateaudelahouillere.com/ - about thirty miles west of Mulhouse, and well worth it.

Have a look here: https://www.adac.de/mitgliedschaft/adac_membership/default.aspx

If you need some help, give me a shout and I'll see what I can do.

Also, you are passing not that far from Stuttgart and both the Mercedes and Porsche Museums are well worth a visit.

The Abarth Museum is in Belgium, near Antwerp
http://www.abarth-gmr.be/new/

If you have time and fancy a trip further south from the lakes, I also recommend Maranello, Sant Agata and Modena for Ferrari, Lamborghini and Maserati museums. If you fancy a bite to eat whilst there, these two are a must:
http://www.ristorantemontana.it/eng/storia.htm

or

http://www.ristoranteilcavallino.it/home-2/ and ask to see the private dining room where Enzo used to have lunch, not well publicised, so you will have to ask to see it!

A journey round the country roads in that area and you are likely to be passed by lots of exotica on their pre delivery road tests and maybe even the odd test mule!

If you are heading to Stuttgart but the Mrs isnt too keen on being dragged round the Porsche and Merc museums, drop her off in a town called Metzingen, if she likes shopping/designer clothes/bargains, she will thank you for it, although it might add a few £££'s to your trip!

If you get to Brescia, check the Museo Mille Miglia.

thanks Neil That looks wonderful and reasonably priced too.

Thanks for that might need some help with terms and conditions if I can find them as apparently all pdf's are in German.

But so far ADAC looks to be a better option than anything offered by UK breakdown.

I think the Mrs would be calling the doctor if I was to ask to go to visit the Merc and Porsche Museums.

We have been very lucky to have visited the Lamborghini Factory Museum once and the Ferruccio Museo twice and their great... its such a personal touch having the nephew of Ferruccio Lamborghini give you a guided tour. That was very special.

The Abarth Museum is in Belgium, near Antwerp
http://www.abarth-gmr.be/new/

Hopefully this one isn't too far off our route.

Also, it's a great backdrop for the obligatory 'coupe on holiday' picture!

I know what you mean but the Mercedes museum is really well done with the history of the twentieth century depicted with some car history. The building is interesting too as you spiral down from the top where the old cars are to the bottom where you can see all the current stuff (can skip that bit!) Hard to ignore the inventors of the motor car

The Porsche Museum is very shinny and German cool but a bit sterile if you are not a fan.

I got a trip around the AMG works last year which was also interesting but I'm not sure if you have to be invited for those. A friend works at Mercedes and took me along.

There is an Arbarth museum in France also and I think it's on the east side of France in a very nice chateau. It also has bikes and planes.

I will try to look up a link.

Chateau de Savigny
21420
Savigny-Les-Beaune

Museo Nicolis is a really nice little museum near Verona http://www.museonicolis.com/. Not only cars, bikes and motorcycles but many other items of 20th century technology including cameras, typewriters etc.
Not sure when you're going but if it's in August, avoid driving anywhere in Italy on the weekend of Ferragosto (15th August) at all costs! The autostradas will be absolutely rammed, and tailbacks lasting hours are typical.

Maybe a bit late in the year for you. Lots of cars, bikes and other things to see.

Padova Motor Show

I lived in Padua for a few years and it really is a nice city. Not too far from Verona either.

You may already know this, however one point to note is that most Italian cities have an area, usually near the centre, called ZTL. It is "Zona a Traffico Limitato". Basically an area of the city that you can be fined for entering in your car, unless your number plate is registered with the local commune.

ZTL

I can see it being pretty difficult not to be stopping at every view

Just a little update on ADAC European breakdown cover for anyone looking to use them outside of Germany this is no longer an option as of October 2017 as you must have a German address.

Putting the finishing touches to our last two nights stay.

Our last night In Italy will be Bormio and then heading for Stelvio in the morning and on to Germany.

Planning to stop around Ulm and then Cologne for 1 night this splits the driving up to a very leisurely 4hrs drive each day.

Can anyone recommend any good overnight stop in and around Ulm and Cologne? Doesn't really have to too close by.

We stopped in Ulm last time we went down; so UK to Ulm in one hit. I think we stopped in an Ibis in the city centre - mostly selected on grounds of having a car park.

I recall no difficulty finding somewhere to eat, and rather oddly, the bread museum was having a late night; surprisingly good

Both Cologne and Ulm are nice places to spend an evening or even a day, especially if you are walking distance from the old town. In the sun, Ulm old town is very nice with the river, medieval walls and buildings, the cathedral, etc. In the rain, Ulm seems to take on a darker feel than one would expect! Blautopf (near ulm) is also well worth a short visit if the weather is good and the water clear:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blautopf

Cochem is a nice little town on the Mossel river, its about 2 hours south of Cologne, not too far from the 'ring. The roads are good round there too.
There is a friendly bar on the river front that has good music (and some bad), but fun to watch the locals dancing in unison to the music.
It is a safe place and plenty of Hotels have car parks. We have stayed at the Moselstern on the other side of the river, which has secure parking.

That looks beautiful so we could certainly make a stop off at Blautopf and its only 25 mins from or route north.

With just 7 weeks to go until we set off in the coupe and head for Italy what would be the suggested spares and tools to take with? I am certainly thinking some spare coil packs.

You'll probably have these already...

An injector
Fuses
Spare relay (check your footwell for dropped ones )
Sidelight and brake light bulbs
Spare Crank sensor

X An injector
Check Fuses
Check Spare relay (hiding under the seat until next time)
Check Sidelight and brake light bulbs
X Spare Crank sensor

Also pack a spare coil pack if you have one.

Fuel pump relay. Engine oil. Zip ties. Length of electric wire and coupling.Range of jubile clips.

dont forget the high viz, triangle and Breathalyzer kit

Fines for not carrying a breathalyser kit postponed indefinitely .....in France that is.

Not required in Italy

I thought I heard on the radio only a few days ago that breathaliser rule was never enforced. Although we won't be travelling through France.

Never knew that!
We brought some as we go quite frequently, it was almost a token gesture because you will never really use them, so was a stupid rule
But you know what they can be like for on the spot fines so we didnt risk it, good to know they are not required though!

HI viz vests in the car not the boot. Spare bulb set also. Carry all car paperwork. Insurance,log book,mot cert.

Good call on the crank sensor and other parts, but also think about what you'd need if you needed to fit any of those parts yourself, ie: portable trolley or bottle jack, 2x axle stands and the required allen key or bit required to do the crank sensor. Plus a selection of spanners and/or 1/4" socket set, including 19mm socket plus short extension for wheel bolts. Other allen keys/bits eg: to remove cam covers and coil packs. Spark plug socket maybe and spare spark plugs?

As well as oil, bring some anti-freeze/water mix, and as well as hose clips, bring a selection of spare coolant hoses, eg: thermostat to rad, CHOD, etc. Consider a spare set of front brake pads if tackling any alpine passes or race tracks en route (plus tools including a suitable drift for the pad retaining pins). And a torque wrench will come in handy for checking wheel bolts etc.

And if you have a fault code reader, bring that too.

A trailer

Get a decent euro recovery policy and save the spares space for wine to bring back. (Other souvenirs are available).

Seriously - remember Joe and I rebuilt the car a couple of years ago and then I did four and a half thousand miles round Norway? No spares (except a couple of fuses that happened to be in the glove box). Twentieth anniversary trip? Fortnight overseas and a similar lack of spares. Just give it a service before you go, make sure your tyres are ok, and that you've got all the legal stuff mentioned above.

Looking for tow bar and trailer now but seriously space will be at a premium with 2 dogs and luggage for 2 weeks. So I expect a small tool box and some spares in it.

Now with decent recovery policy in place. I think I just got a little worried about going in the coupe but then thinking about some of the euro plate cars I've seen over the summer in and around the Scottish highlands... the coupe should do it in its stride.

Like your thinking Neil although I'm trying to think what I can substitute the wine for?

Don’t worry about going in your Coupe. If you maintain it well you will already have a sense of it’s reliability, just take the aforementioned steps to cope with the unexpected. I’ve just returned from doing a 2500 mile round euro trip including the Alps and she performed faultlessly

Pete I have been following your trip daily and really impressed by it all.... loved the updates on facebook with your trip progress.

Currently sorting out a couple if niggles on the coupe. It's had new brakes all round for gotthard and stelvio. New rainsports for those afternoon italian showers. And servicing before we go.

Yesterday's aircon recharge has went better than I'd expected after it stopped working 3 years ago so should have some cool passengers including the dogs.

Sounds like you are pretty much set up for a memorable journey of your own then. The lack of aircon in Doris was the only thing that would have made the journey better- early spring or late autumn southern European road trips for me in future!