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Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi #1618819
12/04/2018 14:34
12/04/2018 14:34
Joined: Sep 2008
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JKD Offline OP
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The WiFi router is on a table in the corner of the living room, near the bottom of the stairs.

Smartphones can connect, stay connected and show a good signal strength, from anywhere in the house.

But the computer upstairs, which is quite a few years old but works fine, has been having problems for several months now. It's in a bedroom next to the top of the stairs.

Sometimes, it just doesn't want to connect at all for a long time. And when it does, the signal strength on the computer never goes above 2 out of 5 bars (but it does work fine even at this seemingly low signal strength). But then it may just randomly lose the connection to the Wi-Fi, and again, not want to connect for a long time.

Right now it seems stable, but this morning it wasn't connecting/staying connected for the majority of the time.

Any ideas?

Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: JKD] #1618821
12/04/2018 15:02
12/04/2018 15:02
Joined: Jan 2006
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Sunny Darlo
Wishy Offline
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What kind of WiFi adaptor does the upstairs computer have? Is it a desktop with a PCI Wifi card or is it a USB Wifi Dongle? The latter would be an easy/cheap thing to change to a different one to see if it makes a difference.

I've had issues with a USB device in the past which once changed to a different brand was fine ever since. The original temperamental device is one of the reasons why I will never touch another Belkin product again.


Last edited by Wishy; 12/04/2018 19:18. Reason: Can say that again.

Up yours Photobucket.
Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: Wishy] #1618822
12/04/2018 15:38
12/04/2018 15:38
Joined: Sep 2008
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JKD Offline OP
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I looked behind the computer now to check and remembered it's a Wifi card.

I saw that the antenna itself was very loose, so I screwed it on properly. Signal strength immediately went to 3 out 5 bars.

But as it was very dusty I unscrewed it, cleaned it and screwed it back in again. But it then seemed to just fall off. I saw that the actual gold pin from inside the antenna was still connected to the computer. So I just screwed the antenna back on, around the stuck pin.

Signal strength now fluctuates between 3 and 4 bars. Hopefully, it should be ok now. Will see.

Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: JKD] #1620375
13/05/2018 10:30
13/05/2018 10:30
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,617
SE Essex
charlie_croker Offline
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Why not ditch the Wifi, (if your computers old, its probably got slow wifi anyway, which means it slows down all the other devices on Wifi, if you have a router setting "Airtime Fairness" try it.

I would suggest you move your PC to Powerline, they actually work remarkably well (ignore the speeds quoted, its marketing hype of maximum link speed, you will get around 100Mbps + with 600 around up to 350Mbps on 1300, but for the price it will help out other users of your Wifi. (It uses your houses electric wiring to send data).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TL-PA4010KIT-Powerline-Configuration-Required-UK/dp/B016ZZAVYI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1526210754&sr=8-1&keywords=powerline%2Badapter&th=1


Last edited by charlie_croker; 13/05/2018 10:30.

Happy
Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: JKD] #1620425
14/05/2018 11:03
14/05/2018 11:03
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869
Germany
neil_r Offline
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Could also replace the WiFi card for a more modern one - they are really cheap these days and it takes minutes to swap out. Another boost can be got buy using a bigger antenna.


1997 20V
2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR
2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD
2018 Mazda2 GT
Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: JKD] #1620434
14/05/2018 13:01
14/05/2018 13:01
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,643
Watford
MarioCirillo Offline
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Proud Owner of Rosso Speed LE041
Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: JKD] #1620448
14/05/2018 17:35
14/05/2018 17:35
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,388
Caston, Norfolk
Blueboyracer Offline
Competition Level
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Caston, Norfolk
One question I always have about powerline units is where does the reach stop?
Same ring main
Same consumer unit
Same electricity meter

Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: Blueboyracer] #1620452
14/05/2018 18:32
14/05/2018 18:32
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 826
Kent
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cyborg7 Offline
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Originally Posted By BBR
One question I always have about powerline units is where does the reach stop?
Same ring main
Same consumer unit
Same electricity meter

GCHQ

Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: JKD] #1620465
15/05/2018 06:25
15/05/2018 06:25
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869
Germany
neil_r Offline
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We actually have some of these powerline adapters to fill the gap between getting around to laying some LAN cables around the house. The main router is at ground level. One powerline pair feeds the cellar, another the attic. Non of these are on the same ring and are connected via the circuit breaker box. Any connection seems to work in our house so it must be anything connected to the same circuit breaker box???

However, the more complex the connection from the first powerline adapter, the weaker the signal gets. The attic and cellar seem to have about 40% - 50% of the internet connection speed that the main router shows with the TP-Link AV2000s.

As you have a fairly strong signal at the old pc, the simpler option would be a better wifi card with a good antenna. The Powerline option may be better but is more expensive, a little messier but would allow you more flexibility (e.g. can add a second wifi router to improve wifi coverage in your home).


1997 20V
2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR
2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD
2018 Mazda2 GT
Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: JKD] #1620466
15/05/2018 06:46
15/05/2018 06:46
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,388
Caston, Norfolk
Blueboyracer Offline
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Great feedback neil_r thanks

Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: Blueboyracer] #1620468
15/05/2018 06:51
15/05/2018 06:51

G
GrahamL
Unregistered
GrahamL
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Originally Posted By BBR
One question I always have about powerline units is where does the reach stop?
Same ring main
Same consumer unit
Same electricity meter


They don't need any physical connection between them at all as they actually use short wave radio to communicate.

It's been proved that they work perfectly at full speed when one is run from a generator without any physical connection to the mains. There are videos on youtube showing that + the huge radio interference they push out,

Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: JKD] #1620471
15/05/2018 08:03
15/05/2018 08:03
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,388
Caston, Norfolk
Blueboyracer Offline
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Wireless extenders could work like that for sure (repeaters)

But, powerline adaptors use the electrical wiring to communicate, so I have always assumed they would need to be on the same ring main

Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: JKD] #1620472
15/05/2018 08:09
15/05/2018 08:09

G
GrahamL
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GrahamL
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It was the powerline adapters I meant... they need no physical connection as they work by shortwave radio.

There's a video on youtube of a guy showing them working at full speed with one plugged into the mains in his house and the other one plugged into a generator in his back garden!

And he also shows the 2 powerline adapters on the same mains ring losing their connection to each other when he broadcasts shortwave radio to "jam" their communication.

Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: JKD] #1620474
15/05/2018 08:43
15/05/2018 08:43
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869
Germany
neil_r Offline
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Powerline adapters use the mains cables in the house to transmit the network signal, hence the name. They have nothing to do with radio signals.

Disrupting electronics is a completely different kettle of electrons.

From Mario's link:

"What are Powerline adaptors?

Powerline is a simple-to-install digital home technology ... for connecting devices to your network, regardless of whether or not they're in the same room as your router.

It uses your home's mains power wires to create a network connection ..."


1997 20V
2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR
2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD
2018 Mazda2 GT
Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: neil_r] #1620475
15/05/2018 09:19
15/05/2018 09:19

G
GrahamL
Unregistered
GrahamL
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G



Originally Posted By neil_r
Powerline adapters use the mains cables in the house to transmit the network signal, hence the name. They have nothing to do with radio signals.


That's what the marketing tells you, but there is proof otherwise if you take the time to look for it.

Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: JKD] #1620477
15/05/2018 09:33
15/05/2018 09:33
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,385
Lightwater, Surrey
DaveG Offline
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It's a conspiracy I tell you, it all comes back to GCHQ just like cyborg7 told us shocked


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: DaveG] #1620478
15/05/2018 10:53
15/05/2018 10:53
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Posts: 869
Germany
neil_r Offline
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Originally Posted By DaveG
It's a conspiracy I tell you, it all comes back to GCHQ just like cyborg7 told us shocked


More likely than the SW radio theory. Or maybe I should get that aluminium cap after all smile


1997 20V
2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR
2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD
2018 Mazda2 GT
Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: JKD] #1620484
15/05/2018 12:43
15/05/2018 12:43
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,385
Lightwater, Surrey
DaveG Offline
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Just stick your fingers in your ears and hum a tune whilst saying "I'm not listening"... I've not seen the SW radio videos, but they sound a bit like those home made videos of what happens then you put bricks inside a washing machine...


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: JKD] #1620485
15/05/2018 13:23
15/05/2018 13:23
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Posts: 869
Germany
neil_r Offline
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Ok I'll bite and see what is out there.

As one would expect, powerline adapters work over the power lines. Nothing fishy there. However, they might cause interference to SW radio waves so anyone nearby trying to communicate with SW radio may have problems:

"HomePlug adapters are often referred to as PLT (Power Line Telecommunication) devices, and shortwave radio enthusiasts claim that they can effectively turns your home into a low-powered transmitter, as your home’s mains cabling radiates a low-power “noise” in the band used by short wave radio (2Mhz to 30Mhz)."

No conspiracy on the technology front, just an undesirable side effect for some.


1997 20V
2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR
2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD
2018 Mazda2 GT
Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: JKD] #1620494
15/05/2018 16:04
15/05/2018 16:04
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,988
Sunny Darlo
Wishy Offline
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I've seen the videos a while ago but wasn't exactly convinced. I might try and dig them out as to be honest I didn't get to watch them all the way through due to the guy narrating being less than engaging in nature.
The main issues I had were that I would have liked to see better quantified tests especially with a network analyser so it could be seen how much power goes through the wires and how much out to the air. For me it shouldn't be a shock that putting relatively high speed signals down unshielded wires designed to carry 50Hz leads to
a) Elements of the wire behaving as an antenna at either end
b) The wires themselves being susceptible to noise

I'm still not a fan of the devices themselves as I think that electrically they are a messy solution (for reasons that can be derived from my comments above) but have used them as a necessary evil in my last couple of houses. Saying that however, I work from home 3 days a week and found that they drop out quite a lot when used for extended periods of time so last year bit the bullet and paid an electrician to run LAN cable round the house so I have wired network sockets instead now.

Edited to add
Fill yer boots
Uno
Dos
Tres

Last edited by Wishy; 15/05/2018 16:42. Reason: Might regret this but found them

Up yours Photobucket.
Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: JKD] #1620499
15/05/2018 16:44
15/05/2018 16:44
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,988
Sunny Darlo
Wishy Offline
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P.S. How far off topic have we managed to drag a thread that hadn't been posted on for over a month? This is just just like the old days. laugh


Up yours Photobucket.
Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: ] #1620511
16/05/2018 10:59
16/05/2018 10:59
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,200
england
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came2dance Offline
I AM a Coop
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england
Originally Posted By GrahamL
It was the powerline adapters I meant... they need no physical connection as they work by shortwave radio.

There's a video on youtube of a guy showing them working at full speed with one plugged into the mains in his house and the other one plugged into a generator in his back garden!

And he also shows the 2 powerline adapters on the same mains ring losing their connection to each other when he broadcasts shortwave radio to "jam" their communication.
Man I bet this dude has fight girls off with a stick when he pops down the local zzz tongue


[Linked Image]www.chrisdoyle-photography.co.uk

Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: neil_r] #1620512
16/05/2018 11:31
16/05/2018 11:31
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,643
Watford
MarioCirillo Offline
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Watford
Originally Posted By neil_r
We actually have some of these powerline adapters to fill the gap between getting around to laying some LAN cables around the house. The main router is at ground level. One powerline pair feeds the cellar, another the attic. Non of these are on the same ring and are connected via the circuit breaker box. Any connection seems to work in our house so it must be anything connected to the same circuit breaker box???

However, the more complex the connection from the first powerline adapter, the weaker the signal gets. The attic and cellar seem to have about 40% - 50% of the internet connection speed that the main router shows with the TP-Link AV2000s.

As you have a fairly strong signal at the old pc, the simpler option would be a better wifi card with a good antenna. The Powerline option may be better but is more expensive, a little messier but would allow you more flexibility (e.g. can add a second wifi router to improve wifi coverage in your home).


Could it not be that your powerline adapter is capped at a certain throughput ? 10mb? 50mb? etc


Proud Owner of Rosso Speed LE041
Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: MarioCirillo] #1620517
16/05/2018 13:14
16/05/2018 13:14
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869
Germany
neil_r Offline
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Originally Posted By MarioCirillo
Could it not be that your powerline adapter is capped at a certain throughput ? 10mb? 50mb? etc


I don't believe so as they get slower as they get "further away". If they were capped, for whatever reason, they would be equally slow everywhere. The adapters have a real bandwidth that should cope with our broadband speed but they don't get close as the routing becomes longer and more complex.

Powerline adapters are OK for non-critical applications but a hard-wired connection is always the way to go if at all possible. I just have not had the time to see if I can route them through the canals that are used to take the Sat. cables around the house. One day I will have time for everything I would like to do.


1997 20V
2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR
2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD
2018 Mazda2 GT
Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: neil_r] #1620518
16/05/2018 14:01
16/05/2018 14:01
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,643
Watford
MarioCirillo Offline
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Originally Posted By neil_r
[quote=MarioCirillo]hard-wired connection is always the way to go if at all possible.


agree


Proud Owner of Rosso Speed LE041
Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: JKD] #1620519
16/05/2018 14:31
16/05/2018 14:31
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,988
Sunny Darlo
Wishy Offline
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Thirded.

I'm very glad I paid someone else to do the wires though as the mess that I'd have made getting wires from A to B would have ended up with a building site that would have taken me weeks to sort out. As it was, two electricians with the correct type of pokey stick thingies and experience in working out how to get from A to B efficiently did it in a day leaving some holes to patch that you would have barely known were there. They put the pattress boxes in and I just had to wire up the sockets.


Up yours Photobucket.
Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: Wishy] #1620523
16/05/2018 20:23
16/05/2018 20:23
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,521
Berlin
barnacle Offline
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Originally Posted By Wishy
pokey stick thingies


It's always good to see the correct technical terms being used.


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Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: neil_r] #1620525
16/05/2018 22:00
16/05/2018 22:00

G
GrahamL
Unregistered
GrahamL
Unregistered
G



Originally Posted By neil_r
I don't believe so as they get slower as they get "further away".


That's strange, it's almost like they're using low power radio signals to connect. tongue

Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: JKD] #1620534
17/05/2018 08:07
17/05/2018 08:07
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,385
Lightwater, Surrey
DaveG Offline
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Lightwater, Surrey
Graham I think we need you to take a powerline adaptor apart and see what's going on, is the earth connection really used as a network cable? How can one "wire" take the place of 4 twisted pairs? Do they transmit and receive SW radio signals, or do they just generate SW radio interference?

Did the moon landings really happen? Who shot JR? I could go on...


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: Computer doesn't work well with the WiFi [Re: DaveG] #1620545
17/05/2018 15:16
17/05/2018 15:16
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,662
Auld Reekie
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Originally Posted By DaveG
Who shot JR?


laugh

Lost on most ...


BumbleBee carer smile
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