Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside....

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Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... #1619214 21/04/2018 14:38 21/04/2018 14:38
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire Nigel OP Forum veteran
Nigel OP Forum veteran Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire	Last week, Motormech had a 20VT booked in for a service, cambelt, clutch and MOT When it turned up, it was instantly clear that it needed a fortune spending to make it roadworthy When we got it on the ramp, the car's fate was sealed It looks like it has been standing on grass or soil for a number of years and the damp has got everywhere - we had to prise a front caliper off the disc to move the car - it was seized solid. We then had to remove the aux belts to start it, as the alternator had seized. Another one bites the dust.... So - PLEASE, if you have to store your Coupe, try to keep it dry and definitely don't park it on grass or soil In the end, the unfortunate owner just told us to dispose of the car as we saw fit and handed us the logbook.

Re: Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... [Re: Nigel] #1619224 21/04/2018 15:57 21/04/2018 15:57
P pstruck Unregistered
pstruck Unregistered P	Yikes! What a sorry sight. Good advice though Nigel. Not everyone can stretch as far as a heater and dehumidified garage, but lesser measures can at least prevent horrors such as this occurring.

Re: Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... [Re: Nigel] #1619225 21/04/2018 16:03 21/04/2018 16:03
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,466 Kent Submariner My job on the forum
Submariner My job on the forum Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,466 Kent	By putting it on a driveway or road would of prevented most of that, must have been stood for a couple of years? Last edited by Submariner; 21/04/2018 16:06.

Re: Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... [Re: Nigel] #1619227 21/04/2018 16:21 21/04/2018 16:21
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 16,780 Auld Reekie Edinburgh Club President, member225
Edinburgh Club President, member225 Forum veteran Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 16,780 Auld Reekie	I thought I was watching Jacques Coustaeu Dust to pretty much dust in only 20 years..... BumbleBee carer

Re: Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... [Re: Nigel] #1619228 21/04/2018 17:06 21/04/2018 17:06
Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 73 Essex D Desmond Reaping the fruits
Desmond Reaping the fruits D Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 73 Essex	Death by osmosis

Re: Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... [Re: Nigel] #1619231 21/04/2018 17:51 21/04/2018 17:51
Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,011 ation szkom Club member 2000
szkom Club member 2000 Forum is my life Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,011 ation	Anything structurally wrong? It looks scary, but much of what's shown would wire brush, imo. Granted a timely exercise. Such a shame.

Re: Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... [Re: Nigel] #1619233 21/04/2018 19:12 21/04/2018 19:12
Joined: Sep 2017 Posts: 158 Staffordshire L Lee_k On a journey
Lee_k On a journey L Joined: Sep 2017 Posts: 158 Staffordshire	Whats mad is in a few years, people will pick them up like that and set about a restoration. Its a car in a weird transition atm where people wouldnt consider paying for a specialist to rebuild it (compared to alot of "barn finds" or even the stuff you see on TV done by the likes of for the love of cars etc that looks quite easy!) and a usual garage would advise just to burn it as not a viable repair. In a few years when its finished this transition people will be trying to talk people out of selling the cars exactly like that held up in a corner of a field so they can start the restoration themselves! I remember when my dads stag turned up having sat in a barn for 20+ years (rot wasnt the word!) but over several years, lots of hours and metal...and parts...and welding...and everything else inbetween it was fixed and put back together! The coupes only problem with this kind of thing atm is timing, unfortunately by the time people start wanting to restore them many will be the size of a box of paper! In them years people will be well into 4 figures for a rusty one that hasnt ran for 10years! Lee

Re: Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... [Re: Nigel] #1619246 21/04/2018 22:01 21/04/2018 22:01
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 6,783 In the coupe. magooagain Club Member 259
magooagain Club Member 259 Forum is my life Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 6,783 In the coupe.	Fmic soon for sale. Shame about the coupe.

Re: Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... [Re: Nigel] #1619247 21/04/2018 22:10 21/04/2018 22:10
Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 4,645 J JKD Forum is my job
JKD Forum is my job J Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 4,645	Fk rust. The fkin bastard. Destroyer of nice cars.

Re: Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... [Re: Nigel] #1619249 21/04/2018 22:34 21/04/2018 22:34
Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 4,645 J JKD Forum is my job
JKD Forum is my job J Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 4,645	I read on a forum once how brand new cars can spend considerable time parked in a field before they get into the showrooms and they seem to be fine?!? Makes me wonder, if there was a properly under sealed Coop that had been driven out the factory in 1994 and parked in a field next door and then left there in the open for the last 24 years, how bad it would be by now, having had to only deal with acid rain at worst, as opposed to salt and water too. It seems that a car that's in a good condition to begin with can be parked up and left for a long time and it will be reasonably ok. It's when it's not in a good condition that the issues are worsened.

Re: Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... [Re: Nigel] #1619254 21/04/2018 23:30 21/04/2018 23:30
Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 1,095 Berkshire AnnieMac Enjoying the ride
AnnieMac Enjoying the ride Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 1,095 Berkshire	My Coupe is kept on the road and it had an advisory on the MOT last year for underbody corrosion. However, no advisory at all for corrosion this year.

Re: Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... [Re: Nigel] #1619261 22/04/2018 01:55 22/04/2018 01:55
S SVC Unregistered
SVC Unregistered S	Salty winter roads could do that too?

Re: Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... [Re: Nigel] #1619265 22/04/2018 08:33 22/04/2018 08:33
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 33,553 Berlin barnacle Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
barnacle Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio Forum Demigod Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 33,553 Berlin	Salty winter roads don't help but I wonder if half the difference between a new and a driven car is damage from road grit; not particularly salt but simply pebbles and the like damaging the protective coatings. Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!

Re: Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... [Re: AnnieMac] #1619268 22/04/2018 09:17 22/04/2018 09:17
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,469 Scottish Borders G_Man Club member 1656
G_Man Club member 1656 My job on the forum Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,469 Scottish Borders	Originally Posted By AnnieMac My Coupe is kept on the road and it had an advisory on the MOT last year for underbody corrosion. However, no advisory at all for corrosion this year. Strange but it could be down to different perspectives of the tester? Could be surface rust that when brushed down, treated then coated will probably be ok and it's either worth flagging up or not. Structural rot then that's a different ball game altogether! 77 77

Re: Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... [Re: Nigel] #1619278 22/04/2018 16:05 22/04/2018 16:05
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire Nigel OP Forum veteran
Nigel OP Forum veteran Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire	I’ve seen worse body corrosion - weirdly, the boot floor on this one is fine. The sills have gone and the floor pan is very flaky in quite a few places. However, just about all of the running gear is shot - brakes, suspension, subframes, wishbones, ARBs - everything is thick with rust The fact that it stood motionless for years has also been its undoing - it took the recovery driver more than two hours to get the car on his flat-bed and he had to reverse into the workshop between the two post ramp so that we could lift the car off the flatbed with the ramp It could be rescued, but the bill would be huge - I’m guessing £5k without even touching the bodywork - £7k with paint We think the engine is OK - we’ll compression-test it in the next week or so, but we may already have a customer that needs it (burst an oil cooler pipe and the light came on, so it was driven half a mile back home.....) FMIC should repair - the bottom panel was caught on the low-loader, but the rest seems OK - I think it’s a ProAlloy

Re: Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... [Re: Nigel] #1619331 23/04/2018 19:28 23/04/2018 19:28
Joined: Sep 2017 Posts: 158 Staffordshire L Lee_k On a journey
Lee_k On a journey L Joined: Sep 2017 Posts: 158 Staffordshire	7k with paint would mean a minter - on a car that in a few years is highly tipped to fetch 10k+ The car merry go round! - Wasnt that long ago people wouldnt pay more than 3-4k for a porshe 944, or a Ford Capri for that matter! Shame! But it could lead to some spares entering the market so its not all bad! Lee

Re: Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... [Re: Nigel] #1619361 24/04/2018 15:03 24/04/2018 15:03
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,466 Kent Submariner My job on the forum
Submariner My job on the forum Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,466 Kent	Make much more in the current market by selling for parts though. My Coupe has lived outside for 14 years (not on the road), I wash and wax and have had the underseal re-done and the boot floor seam etc. Wish I could garage but consider her my everyday car, I do keep on top of the upkeep and she still looks good. Last edited by Submariner; 24/04/2018 15:20.

Re: Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... [Re: Nigel] #1619378 24/04/2018 20:57 24/04/2018 20:57
Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 1,095 Berkshire AnnieMac Enjoying the ride
AnnieMac Enjoying the ride Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 1,095 Berkshire	My Coupe looks terrible. The lacquer peel is everywhere now. I think even a rattle can job would look better. I like rainy days because then she looks smart. I hate not having a garage, my house was built when hardly anyone owned a car. Today I saw a beautiful red vintage Jaguar, like the old cop cars, parked up on grass, and I thought, "Uh-Oh!"

Re: Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... [Re: Nigel] #1619416 25/04/2018 10:45 25/04/2018 10:45
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 8,064 South Cambs B Barmybob Hon Club Member: 003
Barmybob Hon Club Member: 003 Je suis un Coupé B Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 8,064 South Cambs	Originally Posted By Nigel So - PLEASE, if you have to store your Coupe, try to keep it dry and definitely don't park it on grass or soil Despite this being the usual knowledge spread over the internet I know of a number of people who would disagree. Several of my former colleagues were "Banger" racers, one was a National champion. When I was working alongside these fellows, back in the 90's they collected a LOT, and I mean A LOT of OLD cars. It was mainly Mk 3,4 & 5 Ford Cortina, Granada old P5 rovers and Jags. These fellows regularly commented that of the cars they collected those stored on open concrete were by far in the worst state. And then there is a local farmer friend, who has a huge collection of old farm equipment and vehicles. He says that if he can't store future projects under cover he stores them off hard standing. And it's not like he is short of concrete space! So I'm not sure if the grass thing is a myth or not? Gone Audi mad!

Re: Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... [Re: Nigel] #1619420 25/04/2018 11:14 25/04/2018 11:14
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 754 The South of the West JonH Enjoying the ride
JonH Enjoying the ride Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 754 The South of the West	Besides the damp, is it not also to do with the chemical composition of grass not being friendly to steel (my chemistry knowledge is generally limited to an 'H' , a '2', and an 'O' )?. Must have a good look under my first 20VT soon... been stored outside for a good 10 years now, whilst my Plus has been outside stored only for 2 ! No.199

Re: Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... [Re: Nigel] #1619426 25/04/2018 12:16 25/04/2018 12:16
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 1,924 Going North on the A9 dante giacosa My life on the forum
dante giacosa My life on the forum Joined: May 2012 Posts: 1,924 Going North on the A9	I pay £(a significant amount, which is over 100) a month to keep mine in a garage. All cars need looked after. and if they are this age and Italian, perhaps they need more looking after. Despite the garage, a few years back, I spent months under the car attending to everything I can see, If you want to keep 'em; you've got to do something about it. A car cover goes a very long way, to keeping sun from paintwork, glass, rubber & interior leather & plastics. I also keep a W-plate Alfa which is stored in this manner. (the Coupe gets the garage as I reckon it's more important) It never fails to surprise me, how the kind of corrosion shown here, is a 'surprise' to owners. You have to move forwards 'through the water' to fight this stuff off. It's the only way.

Re: Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... [Re: Nigel] #1619427 25/04/2018 12:40 25/04/2018 12:40
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 978 Behind Enemy Lines Master_Mariner Club member 583
Master_Mariner Club member 583 Enjoying the ride Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 978 Behind Enemy Lines	Echo dante, I am lucky enough to have a garage to keep TRS in - and she's not a daily used car. Apart from the mice issue last year I thought it was pretty good protection. But I found some rust appearing on the front wing, and front sill of an area re-painted not 2 years ago. When I washed her down last weekend. And this in a car that really only see's sunny days-and it was a bit of a shock. I'm clearly going to need to re-visit that area and find out whats gone on-and get on tip of it. I've had a look under coops that have lived and breathed outside by the coast all their lives-and been shocked at what hides underneath. Fiat built them for the warm hills of Marinello I think. Certainly have to move forwards on this front all the time as dante says. MM

Re: Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... [Re: Nigel] #1619489 26/04/2018 19:28 26/04/2018 19:28
Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 826 Kent C cyborg7 Club member 1400
cyborg7 Club member 1400 Enjoying the ride C Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 826 Kent	Leaving salt corrosion and stone chip damage to one side, it's all to do with dew points and humidity. I've looked into this (to the point of it becoming an obsession) and if you can find a way of lowering the humidity then you are home and literally dry. I stored my coupe in my garage for 4 years before I got a humidity meter and realised that it was hitting 70-80%. The garage appeared dry (it was new build and completely watertight). Clearly I'm not quick off the mark but following getting this meter it dawned on me why the surface of tools like saws were flash rusting. Unfortunately the poor coupe was doing the same. I also realised why every year the brake fluid needed changing as it had become damp. I've now completely sealed the garage (at least as far as practical) so there is no ventilation. Instead I'm running a dehumidifier and it's currently the climate of Arizona in there. I've taken a lancia fulvia back to bare metal and since Oct. till now there is not a hint of rust on the bare metal. No heating required just kill the humidity. I've got a fiat 124 that's in a carcoon and although they are ok-ish, it's had mould on some of the interior vinyl surfaces after about 4-5 months of being in one. I think this proves that ventilation alone is good to a point, but given that your only pushing around ambient air (with all the ambient humidity that goes with it) then these are limited in the speed of corrosion they can prevent. I think grass -v- concrete is probably down to all sorts of factors from the amount of standing water, extent of drainage etc. as well as condition of car etc. but at the end of the day irrespective of this it all comes down to water/humidity as the primary cause of the corrosion. Best solution is air-tight garage with dehumidification (think museums storing mummies). 2nd best is maximum ventilation - and whether this is a outside or in a garage depends on loads of factors. Like I said (after 30 years of owning Fiats) it's become a bit of an obsession... https://lancia1965.wordpress.com

Re: Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... [Re: cyborg7] #1619502 27/04/2018 07:06 27/04/2018 07:06
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,390 Essex Trappy Forum is my life
Trappy Forum is my life Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,390 Essex	What causes a car that's 'sitting' to corrode more than say a daily driver that's parked in the same spot when not being used? F**** b**** thing...

Re: Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... [Re: Trappy] #1619504 27/04/2018 07:45 27/04/2018 07:45
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 16,780 Auld Reekie Edinburgh Club President, member225
Edinburgh Club President, member225 Forum veteran Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 16,780 Auld Reekie	Originally Posted By Trappy What causes a car that's 'sitting' to corrode more than say a daily driver that's parked in the same spot when not being used? If a car is parked on soil or grass the rising air current is going to be laden with dampness whereas tarmac will at least dry out from time to time. BumbleBee carer

Re: Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... [Re: cyborg7] #1619510 27/04/2018 10:28 27/04/2018 10:28
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,466 Kent Submariner My job on the forum
Submariner My job on the forum Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,466 Kent	Originally Posted By cyborg7 Leaving salt corrosion and stone chip damage to one side, it's all to do with dew points and humidity. I've looked into this (to the point of it becoming an obsession) and if you can find a way of lowering the humidity then you are home and literally dry. I stored my coupe in my garage for 4 years before I got a humidity meter and realised that it was hitting 70-80%. The garage appeared dry (it was new build and completely watertight). Clearly I'm not quick off the mark but following getting this meter it dawned on me why the surface of tools like saws were flash rusting. Unfortunately the poor coupe was doing the same. I also realised why every year the brake fluid needed changing as it had become damp. I've now completely sealed the garage (at least as far as practical) so there is no ventilation. Instead I'm running a dehumidifier and it's currently the climate of Arizona in there. I've taken a lancia fulvia back to bare metal and since Oct. till now there is not a hint of rust on the bare metal. No heating required just kill the humidity. I've got a fiat 124 that's in a carcoon and although they are ok-ish, it's had mould on some of the interior vinyl surfaces after about 4-5 months of being in one. I think this proves that ventilation alone is good to a point, but given that your only pushing around ambient air (with all the ambient humidity that goes with it) then these are limited in the speed of corrosion they can prevent. I think grass -v- concrete is probably down to all sorts of factors from the amount of standing water, extent of drainage etc. as well as condition of car etc. but at the end of the day irrespective of this it all comes down to water/humidity as the primary cause of the corrosion. Best solution is air-tight garage with dehumidification (think museums storing mummies). 2nd best is maximum ventilation - and whether this is a outside or in a garage depends on loads of factors. Like I said (after 30 years of owning Fiats) it's become a bit of an obsession... Good points guess why some of the advice points to a car outside as a better option than one inside a 'normal' garage creating the humidity issues you identify.

Re: Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... [Re: Nigel] #1619513 27/04/2018 10:52 27/04/2018 10:52
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 1,924 Going North on the A9 dante giacosa My life on the forum
dante giacosa My life on the forum Joined: May 2012 Posts: 1,924 Going North on the A9	That made for a very thought provoking read, Cyborg- Thankyou for going into detail over that Thinking-cap on..!

Re: Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... [Re: Edinburgh] #1619518 27/04/2018 13:29 27/04/2018 13:29
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,390 Essex Trappy Forum is my life
Trappy Forum is my life Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,390 Essex	Originally Posted By Edinburgh Originally Posted By Trappy What causes a car that's 'sitting' to corrode more than say a daily driver that's parked in the same spot when not being used? If a car is parked on soil or grass the rising air current is going to be laden with dampness whereas tarmac will at least dry out from time to time. I declared my coop SORN recently and intend to park her on a raised, paved area I have to the rear of my house for a year or so (under a car cover). There are no issues with drainage here but, even so, I'm beginning to wonder if the outlay of a year's MOT, Tax and Insurance would work out cheaper than the work involved in fixing any issues that arise from corrosion like this... It'd certainly be no trouble taking her round the block every other weekend or something. I'd expect the yearly cost to be around £1,000. Any thoughts? F**** b**** thing...

Re: Why you shouldn't store your Coupe outside.... [Re: Trappy] #1619519 27/04/2018 13:44 27/04/2018 13:44
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,390 Essex Trappy Forum is my life
Trappy Forum is my life Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,390 Essex	Haha, I've just ordered one of those tiny jump starter things and, just thinking about starting the coop up for the first time in seven weeks to move it onto that plinth I mentioned above, my heart is banging in my chest F**** b**** thing...

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