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#1623013 - 16/07/2018 22:56 tracking problem/ tie rods
Happy Birthday Rosso Offline
Club member 1442
Enjoying the ride

Registered: 21/12/2005
Posts: 662
Loc: Motherwell - Scotland
Come to taking the coupe to have the tracking check.

Got call from the garage to say they couldn't track it as required two new tie rods. So picked up a pair from local motor factors and dropped the coupe off at the garage with rods to be fitted. Phone call later the tie rods wont fit as different thread.

I've double checked its definitely according to tie rods manufacturer site as the correct part for a 1999 20vt.

So kinds lost to a reasonable explanation to why they wont match up until I checked backed previous owner history. So in 2006 a new rack was fitted. Could it be possible or probable that a N/A rack was fitted?? Its the only reasonable explanation I can see.
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#1623014 - 17/07/2018 00:10 Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso]
DaveG Offline
Club member 311
Forum is my life

Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 6818
Loc: Lightwater, Surrey, UK
My early 20vt has the same "handed" (ie: different left and right) track rod ends as a 16vt and so I got matching 16vt inner track rods when I replaced them a while ago. It's possible that different inner and end track rods were fitted along the way to yours.

The "proper" 20vt (all except very early cars like mine) are straight and the same both sides.

When the garage said the threads were wrong did they mewn the outer ends of the inner track rods?
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2000 Pearl White Plus & 1996 Portofino 20vt
1985 & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake

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#1623022 - 17/07/2018 10:10 Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso]
neil_r Offline
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Registered: 16/08/2007
Posts: 767
Loc: Germany
I seem to remember that there were two different diameters of threads on the track rods and many people including myself bought the wrong ones without checking the actual car frown

I think the early 20V cars had the 14mm track rods and the later ones had 12 mm. Could this be right?

I also think I still have a paar of the 12mm track rod ends unused (free to good home if anyone wants to pay the postage).

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#1623025 - 17/07/2018 11:29 Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso]
Countrycruising Offline
Club Rep Europe, member 914
I AM a Coop

Registered: 12/09/2006
Posts: 14480
Loc: FCSS 01684 593187
The rod diameter for the 20v n/a and turbo are the same, the difference for the TRE is the taper where it locks to the hub, n/a are smaller.
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#1623028 - 17/07/2018 13:56 Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Countrycruising]
neil_r Offline
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Registered: 16/08/2007
Posts: 767
Loc: Germany
Maybe the non-UK cars are different. I see a change in part number at on many web sites, with the obvious change being the TR/TRE thread diameter changing from 14 mm to 12 mm.

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#1623032 - 17/07/2018 15:10 Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: DaveG]
Happy Birthday Rosso Offline
Club member 1442
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Registered: 21/12/2005
Posts: 662
Loc: Motherwell - Scotland
Originally Posted By DaveG
My early 20vt has the same "handed" (ie: different left and right) track rod ends as a 16vt and so I got matching 16vt inner track rods when I replaced them a while ago. It's possible that different inner and end track rods were fitted along the way to yours.

The "proper" 20vt (all except very early cars like mine) are straight and the same both sides.

When the garage said the threads were wrong did they mewn the outer ends of the inner track rods?


Yep outer ends wouldn't fit existing track rod ends.
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#1623034 - 17/07/2018 15:29 Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso]
DaveG Offline
Club member 311
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Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 6818
Loc: Lightwater, Surrey, UK
Ask the garage to measure the diameters of the outer end of the inner track rods, and the inside diameter and shape of the track rod ends (straight or kinked/handed?)

Did they want to change the inners due to wear? Or just because they were rusty and couldn't get the track rod ends off? Have you got new track rod ends too?
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2000 Pearl White Plus & 1996 Portofino 20vt
1985 & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake

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#1623035 - 17/07/2018 17:29 Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso]
Happy Birthday Rosso Offline
Club member 1442
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Registered: 21/12/2005
Posts: 662
Loc: Motherwell - Scotland
We fitted new track rod ends a number of weeks back. Straight ones at that and listed as 20vt.

Garage said the track rods were worn and needed replaced.
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#1623036 - 17/07/2018 17:30 Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso]
Happy Birthday Rosso Offline
Club member 1442
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Registered: 21/12/2005
Posts: 662
Loc: Motherwell - Scotland
Joe is there anyway to confirm if it is a 20vt rack or n/a?
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#1623038 - 17/07/2018 18:12 Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso]
barnacle Offline
Club Member 18 - Membership Secretary
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Registered: 17/12/2005
Posts: 31807
Loc: Hemel in the Hempstead
I believe the end-to-end turns are less on the turbo than the na, but I don't recall how many each are...

Yeah, yeah, just being my usual helpful self laugh
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#1623042 - 17/07/2018 19:20 Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso]
Happy Birthday Rosso Offline
Club member 1442
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Registered: 21/12/2005
Posts: 662
Loc: Motherwell - Scotland
Neil any help on this one is useful... But does seem a very grey area although if it's the wrong rack fitted then it's a mystery.
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#1623049 - 18/07/2018 06:22 Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso]
Countrycruising Offline
Club Rep Europe, member 914
I AM a Coop

Registered: 12/09/2006
Posts: 14480
Loc: FCSS 01684 593187
Originally Posted By Rosso
Joe is there anyway to confirm if it is a 20vt rack or n/a?


The centre on an n/a rack has a cast pin in alloy sticking up which is there to carry the gear selector rod.
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#1623052 - 18/07/2018 07:27 Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso]
neil_r Offline
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Registered: 16/08/2007
Posts: 767
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By Rosso
Joe is there anyway to confirm if it is a 20vt rack or n/a?


Wouldn't the lock to lock number of turns be enough different to make a basic check.

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#1623056 - 18/07/2018 08:49 Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso]
Countrycruising Offline
Club Rep Europe, member 914
I AM a Coop

Registered: 12/09/2006
Posts: 14480
Loc: FCSS 01684 593187
Originally Posted By Rosso
We fitted new track rod ends a number of weeks back. Straight ones at that and listed as 20vt.

Garage said the track rods were worn and needed replaced.


This does sound like they have fitted N/A TRE to a 20VT hubs, they will look pretty much the same but the taper is smaller.

Tbh I wouldn't mess around, ring Steve and Alternative autos as he'll send the correct parts next day.
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#1623061 - 18/07/2018 09:50 Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso]
DaveG Offline
Club member 311
Forum is my life

Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 6818
Loc: Lightwater, Surrey, UK
Joe, do you mean the taper of the "pin" that fits in the hub? I didn't think that the fit/taper of this "pin" was Rosso's problem, but rather it is a mismatch between the 20vt TRE's that he has (straight, with M14 thread) and the inner track rods that are different, and presumably are M12 thread as fitted to 16vt (and my very early 20vt). So Rosso just needs the correct later 20vt inner track rods?
_________________________
2000 Pearl White Plus & 1996 Portofino 20vt
1985 & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake

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#1623072 - 18/07/2018 11:04 Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: DaveG]
Countrycruising Offline
Club Rep Europe, member 914
I AM a Coop

Registered: 12/09/2006
Posts: 14480
Loc: FCSS 01684 593187
Originally Posted By DaveG
Joe, do you mean the taper of the "pin" that fits in the hub? I didn't think that the fit/taper of this "pin" was Rosso's problem, but rather it is a mismatch between the 20vt TRE's that he has (straight, with M14 thread) and the inner track rods that are different, and presumably are M12 thread as fitted to 16vt (and my very early 20vt). So Rosso just needs the correct later 20vt inner track rods?



Yes the taper to hub so the first thing to do is measure the O/D of the rod.
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#1623163 - 20/07/2018 19:44 Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso]
Happy Birthday Rosso Offline
Club member 1442
Enjoying the ride

Registered: 21/12/2005
Posts: 662
Loc: Motherwell - Scotland
Joe I was about to order up the tie rods from Steve but after looking back in the history file and finding the rack has been changed by previous owner in 2006 I'm questioning whether the rack is the proper 20vt one.

So hopefully tomorrow ill get underneath for a better look and hoping to find a part number under on it.
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#1623164 - 20/07/2018 19:46 Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: DaveG]
Happy Birthday Rosso Offline
Club member 1442
Enjoying the ride

Registered: 21/12/2005
Posts: 662
Loc: Motherwell - Scotland
Originally Posted By DaveG
Joe, do you mean the taper of the "pin" that fits in the hub? I didn't think that the fit/taper of this "pin" was Rosso's problem, but rather it is a mismatch between the 20vt TRE's that he has (straight, with M14 thread) and the inner track rods that are different, and presumably are M12 thread as fitted to 16vt (and my very early 20vt). So Rosso just needs the correct later 20vt inner track rods?



DaveG are you suggesting there is 2 types of tie rods for the 20vt a earlier and later type?
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#1623172 - 20/07/2018 23:16 Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso]
DaveG Offline
Club member 311
Forum is my life

Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 6818
Loc: Lightwater, Surrey, UK
My 20vt is one of the earliest and came fitted with 16vt track rods and track rod ends, in a 20vt rack, go figure. Some aftermarket suppliers mix up the track rod ends.
_________________________
2000 Pearl White Plus & 1996 Portofino 20vt
1985 & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake

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#1623177 - 21/07/2018 08:55 Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso]
Countrycruising Offline
Club Rep Europe, member 914
I AM a Coop

Registered: 12/09/2006
Posts: 14480
Loc: FCSS 01684 593187
Originally Posted By Rosso
Joe I was about to order up the tie rods from Steve but after looking back in the history file and finding the rack has been changed by previous owner in 2006 I'm questioning whether the rack is the proper 20vt one.

So hopefully tomorrow ill get underneath for a better look and hoping to find a part number under on it.


Did you measure the rod OD?
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#1623228 - 22/07/2018 22:09 Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso]
Happy Birthday Rosso Offline
Club member 1442
Enjoying the ride

Registered: 21/12/2005
Posts: 662
Loc: Motherwell - Scotland
Joe OD of tie rod at the track rod end side is 14.2 it then tapers down to the thread for the track rod.

It seems the driver side track rod doesn't have that taper. Both sides do have the same track rod ends fitted and are listed as 20vt.

Don't know if this helps any?
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#1623250 - 23/07/2018 22:43 Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso]
Happy Birthday Rosso Offline
Club member 1442
Enjoying the ride

Registered: 21/12/2005
Posts: 662
Loc: Motherwell - Scotland
Joe are all coupe tie rods and coupe steering racks interchangeable?

the 2 things I know

1 the track rod ends are OCAP 606580288 and were listed as 20v turbo and are currently fitted

2 the 2 tie rods I had to return were FAI SS4522 and listed as 20vt only. I was told by the garage they were the wrong size for the OCAP tre too small apparently.
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#1623302 - 25/07/2018 18:29 Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso]
Countrycruising Offline
Club Rep Europe, member 914
I AM a Coop

Registered: 12/09/2006
Posts: 14480
Loc: FCSS 01684 593187
The thread diameter is right, both turbo and n/a will screw on to the rod but the difference is where the track rod end bolts to the hub, that size differs so the OCAP number confuses things as it's listed for the 1995 to 2000 models.
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#1623305 - 25/07/2018 21:25 Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso]
barnacle Offline
Club Member 18 - Membership Secretary
Forum Demigod

Registered: 17/12/2005
Posts: 31807
Loc: Hemel in the Hempstead
As it happens, Ford Fiesta Mk2 tie rods will also screw into the end of the rack. Joe knows how I know!
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#1623328 - 26/07/2018 15:04 Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso]
Happy Birthday Rosso Offline
Club member 1442
Enjoying the ride

Registered: 21/12/2005
Posts: 662
Loc: Motherwell - Scotland
Oh dear I'm confused
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#1623561 - 04/08/2018 02:44 Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso]
Happy Birthday Rosso Offline
Club member 1442
Enjoying the ride

Registered: 21/12/2005
Posts: 662
Loc: Motherwell - Scotland
The Coupe is now back from the garage with the new tie rods from first line part no.ftr4945 and now finally tracked.
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#1623564 - 04/08/2018 09:39 Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso]
Edinburgh Offline
Club member 225
I AM a Coop

Registered: 04/03/2007
Posts: 10008
Loc: Auld Reekie
Great news Brian thumb
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#1623569 - 04/08/2018 11:05 Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso]
Countrycruising Offline
Club Rep Europe, member 914
I AM a Coop

Registered: 12/09/2006
Posts: 14480
Loc: FCSS 01684 593187
Got there in the end thumb
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#1623575 - 04/08/2018 13:07 Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso]
Happy Birthday Rosso Offline
Club member 1442
Enjoying the ride

Registered: 21/12/2005
Posts: 662
Loc: Motherwell - Scotland
Yes cheers now on with the rest of the to do list before the big trip.
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