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tracking problem/ tie rods #1623013
16/07/2018 20:56
16/07/2018 20:56
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Rosso Offline OP
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Come to taking the coupe to have the tracking check.

Got call from the garage to say they couldn't track it as required two new tie rods. So picked up a pair from local motor factors and dropped the coupe off at the garage with rods to be fitted. Phone call later the tie rods wont fit as different thread.

I've double checked its definitely according to tie rods manufacturer site as the correct part for a 1999 20vt.

So kinds lost to a reasonable explanation to why they wont match up until I checked backed previous owner history. So in 2006 a new rack was fitted. Could it be possible or probable that a N/A rack was fitted?? Its the only reasonable explanation I can see.


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Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso] #1623014
16/07/2018 22:10
16/07/2018 22:10
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Lightwater, Surrey, UK
DaveG Offline
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My early 20vt has the same "handed" (ie: different left and right) track rod ends as a 16vt and so I got matching 16vt inner track rods when I replaced them a while ago. It's possible that different inner and end track rods were fitted along the way to yours.

The "proper" 20vt (all except very early cars like mine) are straight and the same both sides.

When the garage said the threads were wrong did they mewn the outer ends of the inner track rods?


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso] #1623022
17/07/2018 08:10
17/07/2018 08:10
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I seem to remember that there were two different diameters of threads on the track rods and many people including myself bought the wrong ones without checking the actual car frown

I think the early 20V cars had the 14mm track rods and the later ones had 12 mm. Could this be right?

I also think I still have a paar of the 12mm track rod ends unused (free to good home if anyone wants to pay the postage).


1997 20V
2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR
2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD
2018 Mazda2 GT
Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso] #1623025
17/07/2018 09:29
17/07/2018 09:29
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The rod diameter for the 20v n/a and turbo are the same, the difference for the TRE is the taper where it locks to the hub, n/a are smaller.

Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Countrycruising] #1623028
17/07/2018 11:56
17/07/2018 11:56
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Maybe the non-UK cars are different. I see a change in part number at on many web sites, with the obvious change being the TR/TRE thread diameter changing from 14 mm to 12 mm.


1997 20V
2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR
2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD
2018 Mazda2 GT
Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: DaveG] #1623032
17/07/2018 13:10
17/07/2018 13:10
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Motherwell - Scotland
Rosso Offline OP
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Originally Posted By DaveG
My early 20vt has the same "handed" (ie: different left and right) track rod ends as a 16vt and so I got matching 16vt inner track rods when I replaced them a while ago. It's possible that different inner and end track rods were fitted along the way to yours.

The "proper" 20vt (all except very early cars like mine) are straight and the same both sides.

When the garage said the threads were wrong did they mewn the outer ends of the inner track rods?


Yep outer ends wouldn't fit existing track rod ends.


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Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso] #1623034
17/07/2018 13:29
17/07/2018 13:29
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DaveG Offline
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Ask the garage to measure the diameters of the outer end of the inner track rods, and the inside diameter and shape of the track rod ends (straight or kinked/handed?)

Did they want to change the inners due to wear? Or just because they were rusty and couldn't get the track rod ends off? Have you got new track rod ends too?


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso] #1623035
17/07/2018 15:29
17/07/2018 15:29
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We fitted new track rod ends a number of weeks back. Straight ones at that and listed as 20vt.

Garage said the track rods were worn and needed replaced.


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Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso] #1623036
17/07/2018 15:30
17/07/2018 15:30
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Joe is there anyway to confirm if it is a 20vt rack or n/a?


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Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso] #1623038
17/07/2018 16:12
17/07/2018 16:12
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I believe the end-to-end turns are less on the turbo than the na, but I don't recall how many each are...

Yeah, yeah, just being my usual helpful self laugh



Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso] #1623042
17/07/2018 17:20
17/07/2018 17:20
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Neil any help on this one is useful... But does seem a very grey area although if it's the wrong rack fitted then it's a mystery.


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Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso] #1623049
18/07/2018 04:22
18/07/2018 04:22
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Originally Posted By Rosso
Joe is there anyway to confirm if it is a 20vt rack or n/a?


The centre on an n/a rack has a cast pin in alloy sticking up which is there to carry the gear selector rod.

Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso] #1623052
18/07/2018 05:27
18/07/2018 05:27
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Germany
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Originally Posted By Rosso
Joe is there anyway to confirm if it is a 20vt rack or n/a?


Wouldn't the lock to lock number of turns be enough different to make a basic check.


1997 20V
2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR
2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD
2018 Mazda2 GT
Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso] #1623056
18/07/2018 06:49
18/07/2018 06:49
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Originally Posted By Rosso
We fitted new track rod ends a number of weeks back. Straight ones at that and listed as 20vt.

Garage said the track rods were worn and needed replaced.


This does sound like they have fitted N/A TRE to a 20VT hubs, they will look pretty much the same but the taper is smaller.

Tbh I wouldn't mess around, ring Steve and Alternative autos as he'll send the correct parts next day.

Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso] #1623061
18/07/2018 07:50
18/07/2018 07:50
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Joe, do you mean the taper of the "pin" that fits in the hub? I didn't think that the fit/taper of this "pin" was Rosso's problem, but rather it is a mismatch between the 20vt TRE's that he has (straight, with M14 thread) and the inner track rods that are different, and presumably are M12 thread as fitted to 16vt (and my very early 20vt). So Rosso just needs the correct later 20vt inner track rods?


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: DaveG] #1623072
18/07/2018 09:04
18/07/2018 09:04
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Originally Posted By DaveG
Joe, do you mean the taper of the "pin" that fits in the hub? I didn't think that the fit/taper of this "pin" was Rosso's problem, but rather it is a mismatch between the 20vt TRE's that he has (straight, with M14 thread) and the inner track rods that are different, and presumably are M12 thread as fitted to 16vt (and my very early 20vt). So Rosso just needs the correct later 20vt inner track rods?



Yes the taper to hub so the first thing to do is measure the O/D of the rod.

Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso] #1623163
20/07/2018 17:44
20/07/2018 17:44
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Joe I was about to order up the tie rods from Steve but after looking back in the history file and finding the rack has been changed by previous owner in 2006 I'm questioning whether the rack is the proper 20vt one.

So hopefully tomorrow ill get underneath for a better look and hoping to find a part number under on it.


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Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: DaveG] #1623164
20/07/2018 17:46
20/07/2018 17:46
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Originally Posted By DaveG
Joe, do you mean the taper of the "pin" that fits in the hub? I didn't think that the fit/taper of this "pin" was Rosso's problem, but rather it is a mismatch between the 20vt TRE's that he has (straight, with M14 thread) and the inner track rods that are different, and presumably are M12 thread as fitted to 16vt (and my very early 20vt). So Rosso just needs the correct later 20vt inner track rods?



DaveG are you suggesting there is 2 types of tie rods for the 20vt a earlier and later type?


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Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso] #1623172
20/07/2018 21:16
20/07/2018 21:16
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My 20vt is one of the earliest and came fitted with 16vt track rods and track rod ends, in a 20vt rack, go figure. Some aftermarket suppliers mix up the track rod ends.


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso] #1623177
21/07/2018 06:55
21/07/2018 06:55
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Originally Posted By Rosso
Joe I was about to order up the tie rods from Steve but after looking back in the history file and finding the rack has been changed by previous owner in 2006 I'm questioning whether the rack is the proper 20vt one.

So hopefully tomorrow ill get underneath for a better look and hoping to find a part number under on it.


Did you measure the rod OD?

Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso] #1623228
22/07/2018 20:09
22/07/2018 20:09
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Joe OD of tie rod at the track rod end side is 14.2 it then tapers down to the thread for the track rod.

It seems the driver side track rod doesn't have that taper. Both sides do have the same track rod ends fitted and are listed as 20vt.

Don't know if this helps any?


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Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso] #1623250
23/07/2018 20:43
23/07/2018 20:43
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Joe are all coupe tie rods and coupe steering racks interchangeable?

the 2 things I know

1 the track rod ends are OCAP 606580288 and were listed as 20v turbo and are currently fitted

2 the 2 tie rods I had to return were FAI SS4522 and listed as 20vt only. I was told by the garage they were the wrong size for the OCAP tre too small apparently.


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Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso] #1623302
25/07/2018 16:29
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The thread diameter is right, both turbo and n/a will screw on to the rod but the difference is where the track rod end bolts to the hub, that size differs so the OCAP number confuses things as it's listed for the 1995 to 2000 models.

Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso] #1623305
25/07/2018 19:25
25/07/2018 19:25
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As it happens, Ford Fiesta Mk2 tie rods will also screw into the end of the rack. Joe knows how I know!



Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso] #1623328
26/07/2018 13:04
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Oh dear I'm confused


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Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso] #1623561
04/08/2018 00:44
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The Coupe is now back from the garage with the new tie rods from first line part no.ftr4945 and now finally tracked.


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Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso] #1623564
04/08/2018 07:39
04/08/2018 07:39
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Great news Brian thumb


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So there, Photobucket...
Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso] #1623569
04/08/2018 09:05
04/08/2018 09:05
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Got there in the end thumb

Re: tracking problem/ tie rods [Re: Rosso] #1623575
04/08/2018 11:07
04/08/2018 11:07
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Yes cheers now on with the rest of the to do list before the big trip.


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