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front to rear brake lines- one piece? #1623497
01/08/2018 14:56
01/08/2018 14:56
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Going North on the A9
dante giacosa Offline OP
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we are shortly to be replacing the rear-brake lines on our project car, and I'm wondering if anyone can say if they are one-piece straight back..?

I've noticed a join on each line, ahead of the fuel tank and just before the rear-compensator valve, and these seem common on other Coupe's we have inspected.

But, from there to the ABS pump- is it ONE piece..?

any advice greatly received...

Re: front to rear brake lines- one piece? [Re: dante giacosa] #1623498
01/08/2018 15:26
01/08/2018 15:26
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DaveG Offline
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Yes and No, according to ePer.

In a similar way that there are joins near to the compensator value (which could be assumed to need attention at some stage in the car's life, requiring lines to be disconnected), there are joins near to the ABS unit - but ONLY for later models after 15 Nov 1997 (chassis 53574) when the brakes lines were "standardised" (whatever that means). At the same time the front lines were "standardised" but there's no obvious difference before and after.

Work back from ABS unit to discover the other joint, if there is one.


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 20162017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: front to rear brake lines- one piece? [Re: dante giacosa] #1623499
01/08/2018 15:31
01/08/2018 15:31
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DaveG Offline
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PS: the two rear pipes are connected to the "right" side of the ABS unit (as you look at it standing in front of the car) on the side where the pump itself is, opposite the solenoids/electrical connector. The connections are helpfully labelled LR and RR (and LF and RF) which hopefully is based on English rather than German (Bosch ABS remember) or Italian


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 20162017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: front to rear brake lines- one piece? [Re: dante giacosa] #1623503
01/08/2018 19:52
01/08/2018 19:52
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dante giacosa Offline OP
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That is massively helpful actually, Dave-

Thankyou for going into detail over that.

I'll have to have a look then- the lines seem to dissapear above a plastic guard, round about the handbrake reaction-point.
More fooling-around required!

Can you say what type of junctions, those junctions are, ahead of the compensator? I think there is a couple of kinds; these are NOT compression-joints are they? Both sides have been flared and it's a back to back coupler of some kind joining them, is that right..?

Thankyou again...

Re: front to rear brake lines- one piece? [Re: dante giacosa] #1623506
01/08/2018 20:41
01/08/2018 20:41
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I'm not quite sure on this, but I believe first join could be just where pipes coming out of ABS meet floor of the car, there is a threaded join for each rear axle brake line.

I think is worth to take a look, that would help.

Hope this helps..

Re: front to rear brake lines- one piece? [Re: dante giacosa] #1623508
01/08/2018 21:25
01/08/2018 21:25
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DaveG Offline
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The front "junction" connection (if there, later cars only) is the same as the rear, male fitting on one side, female on the other, no coupler in the middle, and each side is opposite (one side is M-F, the other F-M) so that you don't inadvertently mix them up. At least according to ePer.

I'm keeping an eye on your progress because I need to replace at least 1 rear brake pipe (the one that clips to the swing arm) and I've never made up brake pipes before, I don't even have a flaring kit and pipe (yet)...


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 20162017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: front to rear brake lines- one piece? [Re: DaveG] #1623510
01/08/2018 21:31
01/08/2018 21:31
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Auld Reekie
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Originally Posted By DaveG
The front "junction" connection (if there, later cars only) is the same as the rear, male fitting on one side, female on the other, no coupler in the middle, and each side is opposite (one side is M-F, the other F-M) so that you don't inadvertently mix them up. At least according to ePer.

I'm keeping an eye on your progress because I need to replace at least 1 rear brake pipe (the one that clips to the swing arm) and I've never made up brake pipes before, I don't even have a flaring kit and pipe (yet)...


Thanks for this input Dave thumb

Do you mean the c.10" section on the rear trailing arm?


[Linked Image]

So there, Photobucket...
Re: front to rear brake lines- one piece? [Re: dante giacosa] #1623516
02/08/2018 07:01
02/08/2018 07:01
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dante giacosa Offline OP
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yeah; that is what he means, Simon

these;

click to enlarge

click to enlarge

Re: front to rear brake lines- one piece? [Re: dante giacosa] #1623517
02/08/2018 07:07
02/08/2018 07:07
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DaveG Offline
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Yes, thems are the ones


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 20162017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: front to rear brake lines- one piece? [Re: dante giacosa] #1623518
02/08/2018 07:08
02/08/2018 07:08
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dante giacosa Offline OP
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thanks for that input, Dave- again; that's going to be very useful

yes- we're keeping an eye on our OWN progress! we're approaching it quite forensically at the moment.

click to enlarge

click to enlarge

click to enlarge

click to enlarge

apparently, none of these handbrake/ brake-flexible/ ABS sensor cable brackets are available anymore. So; we've got to conserve whats left of the stock ones...

Last edited by dante giacosa; 02/08/2018 07:15.
Re: front to rear brake lines- one piece? [Re: dante giacosa] #1623519
02/08/2018 07:21
02/08/2018 07:21
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DaveG Offline
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It's funny how photos (especially with flash turned on) make the rust look far worse than it is. On my Porto 20vt the rear brake disk dust guards and the inverted "dome" that the rear bump stops fit in to look to be in good condition like they do on your project car, but the trailing arm tends to look horrendously scabby with all the paint eventually peeling off (sometime reluctantly) and those brackets look similarly bad. I'll be doing similar work on my Porto...

Are you planning to remove the rear subframe and renew the bushes?


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 20162017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: front to rear brake lines- one piece? [Re: dante giacosa] #1623523
02/08/2018 08:05
02/08/2018 08:05
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dante giacosa Offline OP
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No, not at this stage- were slowly heading towards finishing at the rear, moving to the front to tackle the engine work, and then eventually creeping up on an MOT.
We've got the fuel tank off at the moment also, and need to source a fuel pump.

If the subframe bushes are highlighted at the MOT as being a problem, then we'll make a decision- we've chosen to deliberately shy away from 'big-tool' jobs at this point, and are trying to address the worst of the corrosion (which is relatively mild).

Yeah- the flash makes everything orange, but at least you can see it all.
It won't be like that before we paint it; it'll be more like the 2nd-final shot of those handbrake/ brake-flexible/ ABS sensor cable brackets, after the metal-etch primer stage.

Last edited by dante giacosa; 02/08/2018 08:07.
Re: front to rear brake lines- one piece? [Re: dante giacosa] #1623634
05/08/2018 22:12
05/08/2018 22:12
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dante giacosa Offline OP
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Right-

What am I doing wrong?

The INCOMING brake lines on the rear compensator are not 13mm nuts are they??

I thought brake flare spanners were a standard size- what do I really need here? Is it 11mm..??

click to enlarge

Re: front to rear brake lines- one piece? [Re: dante giacosa] #1623639
06/08/2018 07:05
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DaveG Offline
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Yes 11mm seems to be the standard size on the Coupe, used to be 10mm on older Fiats AFAIK

Oh, and good luck getting those apart! ooo


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 20162017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: front to rear brake lines- one piece? [Re: dante giacosa] #1623646
06/08/2018 08:46
06/08/2018 08:46
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dante giacosa Offline OP
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thanks for that, Dave-

and yes; it's going to be 'emotional' to say the least...

Re: front to rear brake lines- one piece? [Re: dante giacosa] #1623721
07/08/2018 18:56
07/08/2018 18:56
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If you're replacing anyway then just cut the lines.


Death-rattle-tastic
Re: front to rear brake lines- one piece? [Re: dante giacosa] #1623731
08/08/2018 07:18
08/08/2018 07:18
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dante giacosa Offline OP
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yeah- were just trying to match the shapes, Matt

Re: front to rear brake lines- one piece? [Re: dante giacosa] #1623767
09/08/2018 10:46
09/08/2018 10:46
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DaveG Offline
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Originally Posted By dante giacosa
Right-

What am I doing wrong?

The INCOMING brake lines on the rear compensator are not 13mm nuts are they??

I thought brake flare spanners were a standard size- what do I really need here? Is it 11mm..??

click to enlarge

I'm just perusing the workshop manual and it says

Originally Posted By Workhop Manual
The connectors on the brake pressure proportioning valve are 11mm and 13mm.
Use wrench 1856132000 for the 11mm connectors, and use an open-ended spanner for the 13mm connectors, taking great care not to damage the connectors.

Again, I suspect that the different sizes are to make sure that inlet (11mm?) and outlet (13mm?) are not mixed up, but if you end up replacing any pipes, you might find that you only have 10mm connectors...


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 20162017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: front to rear brake lines- one piece? [Re: dante giacosa] #1623773
09/08/2018 12:34
09/08/2018 12:34
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dante giacosa Offline OP
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turned out indeed to be 11 & 13mm-

thanks for that input...

Re: front to rear brake lines- one piece? [Re: dante giacosa] #1623774
09/08/2018 14:03
09/08/2018 14:03
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Are the 13mm hex fittings not M12 x 1.00 unions? Common to find on ABS units and bias valves.

Re: front to rear brake lines- one piece? [Re: dante giacosa] #1623775
09/08/2018 14:10
09/08/2018 14:10
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To DaveG...the pipe for the swing arm took me half an hour to make, 7 bends in 42ish cms. Just buy the hand held tool, watch a few vids and try to do a better job than the bodgers in the video. End prep is the most important thing. smile


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