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New E10 Petrol #1624779
08/09/2018 08:41
08/09/2018 08:41
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,306
Kent, South East
Cooperman Offline OP
Former Club Membership Secretary
Cooperman  Offline OP
Former Club Membership Secretary
My job on the forum

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,306
Kent, South East
Not sure if this has been posted before but I read an article recently which had link to what cars will be affected, Fiat:
E10 petrol is cleared for all Fiat vehicles with petrol engines of Euro 3 emission levels or
newer, starting from model year 2000, except the following vehicles:
• Barchetta: 1.8 16V
• Bravo/Brava (182): 1.6 16V
• Doblò: 1.6 16V
• Marea: 1.6 16V, 2.0 16V
• Multipla: 1.6 16V
• Palio: 1.6 16V
• Punto (188): 1.8 16V
• Stilo: 1.6 16V (1.596 cm3), 1.8 16V, 2.4 20V

From what I have found online the Coupe is Euro 2 compliant so it suggests we should keep clear of this at the pumps. I just hope the oil companies clearly label which fuels contain this bio ethanol additive.


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Re: New E10 Petrol [Re: Cooperman] #1624783
08/09/2018 09:23
08/09/2018 09:23

D
Dorian
Unregistered
Dorian
Unregistered
D



Our country will also start using ethanol in the fuel in about a month,so I was wondering the same for 2.0 16v,which is also Euro 2.

Re: New E10 Petrol [Re: Cooperman] #1624784
08/09/2018 09:41
08/09/2018 09:41
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,621
Leicester UK
Ballypete Offline
Club Member 1578
Ballypete  Offline
Club Member 1578
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,621
Leicester UK
I had also read that it might not be good for our coupe engines, but all reports I have read so far talk about may, might and could rather than *will*. What is coming out in the stats from studies is that the fuel isn't as efficient, so anyone who uses it will get less mpg and have to fill up more often.

I reckon that there will still be some kind of 5% variant offered at the pumps once things are implemented and the inevitable media fed hysteria dies down. By 2020 what car estimate around only 3% of cars on the UK roads wont be compliant with E10 but that is still a lot of classics and potential petrol fuel sales while the government takes a step towards meeting their emissions targets

Last edited by Ballypete; 08/09/2018 09:43.

Doris the 1998 Portofino Blue 20V and Zoe the 1999 Alfa Romeo 916 Spider
Bog standard needn't be boring...
Re: New E10 Petrol [Re: Cooperman] #1624785
08/09/2018 10:06
08/09/2018 10:06
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,090
highlands
jimboy Offline
Club Member 857
jimboy  Offline
Club Member 857
Forum is my life

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,090
highlands
I've been looking into this for a wee while, I thought that they would come up with some sort of an additive to combat the effects of E10, but although there are some potions on the market, doing a little digging, these really don't cut the mustard, they just help marginally.


I'm an old git & happy with it,most of the time
Re: New E10 Petrol [Re: Cooperman] #1624788
08/09/2018 15:42
08/09/2018 15:42
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,464
Kent
Submariner Offline
My job on the forum
Submariner  Offline
My job on the forum

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,464
Kent
good post, used it in France and neither my motorcycle (few weeks ago) or MG (last month) 'liked it' both engines felt hesitant and underpowered mpg also fell....it also smells absolutely disgusting. I stopped using it and used premium which was not labelled containing E10. I was not fully aware of E10 issues.

Found ths

The majority of unleaded 95 Octane petrol sold in the UK contains up to 5% ethanol as required under the Government's Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation (RTFO). There is currently no requirement for renewable fuel (such as ethanol) to be present in super unleaded (97 grade petrol).

So if that is still the case premium fuel could be the answer, I always avoid Supermarket petrol stations and have done for years especially after they ruined so many cars a while ago and apparently use 'cheaper' (crap) blends?

Govt is apparently canvassing opinion about this

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/e10-petrol-consumer-protection-and-fuel-pump-labelling

RAC is good info, was at Poweritalia on Thursday and Rog mentioned the corrosive effects of ethanol heavy fuels with it's corrosive effect on seals, metal and plastics when we were talking about motorcycles.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emissions/what-is-e10-fuel-and-how-could-it-affect-you/

Reading it appears that E10 creates more demand as mpg is lower which equals more tax for the exchequer.


Last edited by Submariner; 08/09/2018 15:52.
Re: New E10 Petrol [Re: Cooperman] #1624789
08/09/2018 15:59
08/09/2018 15:59
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,298
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
andyps Offline
Club member 1482
andyps  Offline
Club member 1482
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,298
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
Unlike the removal of lead which could be replaced with an additive the problem (as I understand it) with ethanol is that it is in the fuel and can't easily be removed - I did see a kit that does it but it means putting the fuel in a container and separating out the two components so hardly ideal for a daily driver! Problems apparently are that it is incompatible with natural rubber so fuel hoses and seals are a particular issue. Also, it tends to wash away some of the coating that builds up over time in the fuel system and internally in the engine, causing corrosion - I'm sure I read that this is more of an issue with cars irregularly driven. I have seen an additive that combats this - https://www.frost.co.uk/ethomix-corrosion-inhibitor-additive-ethanol-protection.html - but have no idea how well it works.

As a regular visitor to France where E10 has been available for a while I noticed this summer particularly that much of the 95 octane fuel is now E10, although the 98 octane fuel isn't currently. The proportion of filling stations I visit seems to have swung from few having E10 to the majority so no doubt this will also happen in the UK. For many the problem will be lack of storage tanks and pumps for different grades of fuel so will only sell one version of E95.


Andy

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Re: New E10 Petrol [Re: andyps] #1624811
09/09/2018 07:23
09/09/2018 07:23
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,723
Brisbane, Australia
Possum Offline
My life on the forum
Possum  Offline
My life on the forum

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,723
Brisbane, Australia
Here in Australia, we have had E10 for many years and I do not use it in any of my Fiats. It is a few cents cheaper per litre than regular 91 octane but the saving is lost in the lower fuel economy. I run my 16vt on 98 and our 500X on 95 or 98.

Soon after it was introduced, I filled my 2 stroke lawn mower 4.5 litre (1 gal) can with it and over the time it took to use it in the mower, the plastic in-tank fuel gauge started to melt and disappear, hence did not use it again.


Re: New E10 Petrol [Re: Cooperman] #1624813
09/09/2018 08:06
09/09/2018 08:06
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,542
Berlin
barnacle Offline
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
barnacle  Offline
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,542
Berlin
If you wish to respond to the government consultation paper referenced above, you only have a few days.

It's an interesting document, but at no point does it discuss the ways in which E10 fuel may damage an older vehicle. The point is made that maintaining compatibility with older vehicles may be interpreted, at small garages with insufficient tanks, such that they will supply only E10 and 'super' grades - with concomitant price differentials.

Super grades don't, apparently, contain any bioethanol, and so doesn't affect older engines; there may not be any advantage to using it other than this if the ecu cannot adjust certain parameters automatically (e.g. 16 can't, 20 can).


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