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Most unusal post ever #1623650
06/08/2018 09:49
06/08/2018 09:49
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L

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Is the interior seats made from dead animal skin or man made alternative. The car is a 1998 fiat coupe 20 valve turbo. Also is the steering wheel and gear stick gaitor and door panels made from dead animal skin in this car.

Regards

Light

Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light] #1623652
06/08/2018 10:08
06/08/2018 10:08
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Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
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You're right - very unusual post.... wink

Some cars have leather, some have cloth. Anything that looks like leather WILL be leather - there's no artificial alternative

A car with leather seats will also have leather steering wheel, gearknob and armrests (unless the seats were retro-fitted to a car which originally had cloth interior, in which case, the armrests and gearknob could easily be vinyl).

I'm not 100% sure, but I think all 20VTs have a leather steering wheel


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Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light] #1623655
06/08/2018 10:48
06/08/2018 10:48
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Thank you Nigel some new car manufacturers are using a leather alternative (fiat 500x cross)
I am starting to restore my fiat 20 valve turbo 40000 miles.
Probably the only VEGAN coupe driver.
If the interior is all dead animal skin then I may reconsider restoration.

Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light] #1623657
06/08/2018 11:12
06/08/2018 11:12
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Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
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Originally Posted By light
If the interior is all dead animal skin then I may reconsider restoration.


No need - just advertise a free leather interior with a swap for a good cloth interior - that way everyone's happy laugh


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Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light] #1623660
06/08/2018 12:07
06/08/2018 12:07
Joined: Dec 2005
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Pontefract, West Yorkshire
andyps Offline
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Is there a truly vegan car? Not something I've ever looked at but it possibly unlikely that a car contains absolutely nothing of animal origin, but who knows.

It would be relatively easy to change any parts that are leather covered, steering wheel might be the hardest but there will be someone out there with the capability to recover it with a non-animal product.


Andy

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Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light] #1623666
06/08/2018 13:30
06/08/2018 13:30
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Changing interior for cloth still leaves steering wheel and gear lever gaitor. Does anyone know for certain if these two items are animal skin or man made??
Regards

Light

Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light] #1623668
06/08/2018 14:02
06/08/2018 14:02
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Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
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Gear lever gaiter and handbrake gaiter are man-made material, regardless of whether the seats are leather


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Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light] #1623669
06/08/2018 14:08
06/08/2018 14:08
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Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
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How far do you want to go?

Tyres are made using stearic acid, derived from animal fats. At least one big-name manufacturer has managed to use a man-made alternative though.

Many adhesives, antifreeze and even brake fluid contain animal products

Quite simply, I don't believe its possible to be truly vegan AND own / drive a car. However, I accept that with some care and effort, you can reduce the amount of animal product that you force yourself to tolerate


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Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light] #1623671
06/08/2018 14:55
06/08/2018 14:55
Joined: Jul 2008
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Watford
MarioCirillo Offline
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most cars inc the coupe have a leather steering wheel so unlikely to avoid it unless you buy an aftermarket one which will likely be cheap plastic from china however as nigel says likely the chemicals will have some derivative of "animal" in them

You will also sacrifice the airbag if you replace the steering wheel.


Proud Owner of Rosso Speed LE041
Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light] #1623672
06/08/2018 15:05
06/08/2018 15:05
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Posts: 3,634
Pothole City
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Gear knob, steering wheel and door arm rests are all leather, but you won't get very far without oil and petrol (both made from dead animals) anyway. tongue

Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light] #1623673
06/08/2018 15:07
06/08/2018 15:07
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Lightwater, Surrey, UK
DaveG Offline
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Originally Posted By Nigel
Tyres are made using stearic acid, derived from animal fats...Many adhesives, antifreeze and even brake fluid contain animal products

Hey, are you sure about that? Tyres contain a lot of (man-made) styrene derivatives amongst other man-made and natural products (eg: natural rubber from trees), is that what you meant? And there was me thinking that anti-freeze and brake fluid were mostly man-made ethylene glycols, so I wonder what animal products are in there?


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light] #1623675
06/08/2018 15:15
06/08/2018 15:15
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,146
Lightwater, Surrey, UK
DaveG Offline
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Originally Posted By GrahamL
you won't get very far without oil and petrol (both made from dead animals) anyway

Indeed, and most non-metallic parts of the car are made from petrochemicals derived from oil or other hydrocarbons. Think of all the "plastic" parts and "rubber" parts, the carpets, headlining, insulation, headlights and tail lights, etc. - all petrochemicals.

But the quest I think is not to stop use of already dead animals in all their forms, but to stop killing any more, so that the leather seats can be restored using faux leather (eg: PVC can be used to make synthetic leather, with some already dead animals in there) but not fresh new leather (which will result in a sacrifice of some living animals)


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light] #1623678
06/08/2018 15:56
06/08/2018 15:56
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Hey everyone I am a 54 year old male and vegan. I did not start this post to cause an argument. I have owned the coup for 14 years (off the road for 3) I am considering restoring ie investing time and money in this car.
I am a passionate vegan (animal rights) not really caring for the environment ie chemicals etc.
Probably animal byproducts are used in the production of all vehicles in many hidden places.
I will not have a vehicle with animal skin as seats steering wheel gear knob etc. One of our other vehicles is a new fiat 500xcross with faux leather interior.
I need to make a rational decision regarding selling my coup or changing the integrity of the interior to a non animal skin derivative, As my car is so original then probably the easy solution is to sell the car.

Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light] #1623679
06/08/2018 16:55
06/08/2018 16:55
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 35
Scotland
rowl Offline
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Well, it’s tempting to stray into philosophy (and also whether the environment and animal rights can really be separate concerns!), but pragmatically... why not get a nice cloth interior (I’m sure there would be people delighted to swap) and have the steering wheel retrimmed in synthetic material?

Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light] #1623681
06/08/2018 17:40
06/08/2018 17:40
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I have never seen the cloth interior for a 20 valve turbo.
Does anyone know if the steering wheel can actually be recovered as per factory spec.

Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light] #1623682
06/08/2018 18:39
06/08/2018 18:39
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,530
Auld Reekie
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Originally Posted By light
Hey everyone I am a 54 year old male and vegan. I did not start this post to cause an argument. I have owned the coup for 14 years (off the road for 3) I am considering restoring ie investing time and money in this car.
I am a passionate vegan (animal rights) not really caring for the environment ie chemicals etc.
Probably animal byproducts are used in the production of all vehicles in many hidden places.
I will not have a vehicle with animal skin as seats steering wheel gear knob etc. One of our other vehicles is a new fiat 500xcross with faux leather interior.
I need to make a rational decision regarding selling my coup or changing the integrity of the interior to a non animal skin derivative, As my car is so original then probably the easy solution is to sell the car.


Hi light, you're right it is an unusual post and it's the first time I've seen reference to this in a dozen years' forum participation! Your title strikes a distinct tone - perhaps anticipating (from bitter experience?) responses of a contrary nature - but I don't think anyone here is trying to be argumentative....perhaps fascinated as I am that this subject has arisen. Many of us have intolerances or allergies (me to wheat for example*) so why shouldn't someone else who is comparatively new to the forum (but not the coupe smile ).

The "unusual" is the key word, but there's an equal responsibility as I see it on both of our sides to respect our fellow H-B's and attempt to understand the other's point-of-view.

You love your coupe as you've had it for ages and not moved it on even when off the road so why not do your best as said above to eliminate the obvious no-no's (where you're concerned) and continue keeping it? As long as you're on top of the dreaded tinworm you have a fighting chance!

Just my tuppence-ha'penny's worth.....

*but with wheat how can I guarantee there are no traces of it in other products?


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Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: rowl] #1623683
06/08/2018 18:42
06/08/2018 18:42
Joined: Mar 2007
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Auld Reekie
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Originally Posted By rowl
Well, it’s tempting to stray into philosophy (and also whether the environment and animal rights can really be separate concerns!), but pragmatically... why not get a nice cloth interior (I’m sure there would be people delighted to swap) and have the steering wheel retrimmed in synthetic material?


Agreed....

Btw rowl how's your steel grey? Pass it every so often wave

Give us a shout if you want to risk neeting four mad chaps with a broomy 20vt project car laugh


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So there, Photobucket...
Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light] #1623686
06/08/2018 19:13
06/08/2018 19:13
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,166
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
andyps Offline
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If you like the car and want to restore it for your own use with the prospect of selling it at some point in the future my recommendation would be to get a cloth interior, another set of door cards, steering wheel and gear knob and recover the leather parts with a non-animal material so you can happily use the car. Then if you want to sell it later you could do so with the original parts should a buyer want it original.


Andy

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Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: andyps] #1623690
06/08/2018 20:58
06/08/2018 20:58
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This is the option if I keep the car however seems like a lot of work.

Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light] #1623705
07/08/2018 10:54
07/08/2018 10:54
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Posts: 1,166
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
andyps Offline
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Plenty of places to help with the steering wheel - https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=steering+wheel+recovering&meta=


Andy

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Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light] #1623728
07/08/2018 22:46
07/08/2018 22:46
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Auld Reekie
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Alcantara is an option.....


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So there, Photobucket...
Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: Edinburgh] #1623732
08/08/2018 07:20
08/08/2018 07:20
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,166
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
andyps Offline
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Originally Posted By Edinburgh
Alcantara is an option.....
That's what I would go for if not using leather.


Andy

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Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light] #1623733
08/08/2018 07:22
08/08/2018 07:22
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Hi everyone lots of research lots of progress.
Options are steering wheel recovered in black alcantata
The seats and doors may be recovered professionally in black vinyl or cloth or a mixture of both. Costing for wheel 170 gbp cost of seats etc 700 - 800 gbp.
I was looking at replacing gear selector knob with a brushed aluminium knob to match hand brake.
Any thoughts?

Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light] #1623735
08/08/2018 11:15
08/08/2018 11:15
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,166
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
andyps Offline
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It would probably be a lot cheaper to get a set of cloth seats rather than recover the ones you have - if you don't want to keep the leather someone would probably swap for free (I did that for a set of rear seats for mine). Replacing gearknob is a good idea. Door cards possibly hardest to sort.


Andy

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Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: andyps] #1623736
08/08/2018 12:07
08/08/2018 12:07
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Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
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Originally Posted By andyps
Door cards possibly hardest to sort.


Dead easy - Coupes with cloth seats had vinyl armrests on the door cards

Five minutes to get the doorcard off, five minutes to swap the armrest, five minutes to put it all back together again. Sorted smile


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Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light] #1623744
08/08/2018 16:33
08/08/2018 16:33
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The issue with cloth interior is most are well used (and abused)
A retrim in a vinyl (very close to the original animal skin) is a new interior albeit an expensive one.
I have been thinking on this topic and perhaps merits some discussion regarding a head v heart decision for restoration.
What is the true value ie what would most members pay with their own money for a standard 20 valve turbo car completely restored although not a show car
Head equals spending more money than car is worth on total resto.
Heart says grin factor and car deserves the tlc (14 years owner)
In any event I have the necessary budget for total restoration
The car is bound to have a market value

Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light] #1623776
09/08/2018 16:39
09/08/2018 16:39
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,995
Glos
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Interesting debate.
Why not consider some aftermarket replacement front seats?
The standard 20VT seats are not the most bolstered anyway and I believe it should be possible to get a direct fit replacement covered in say alcantara?


Fiat Coupe 20VT
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BMW X1 XLine
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Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light] #1624641
03/09/2018 15:31
03/09/2018 15:31
Joined: Jun 2018
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Guernsey
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Mark20VT Offline
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Guernsey
I have a very good cloth interior in my spare 20VT. The car has only covered 49K and the seats and door cards are unmarked, no wear rips or tears. But obviously it would be a swap for the dead animal skin.

Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light] #1624834
09/09/2018 14:28
09/09/2018 14:28
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This is a very interesting topic indeed and not something that I would have ever thought played a part in driving/owning a car.

Of course when you then realise that there will be passionate vegan motorists like Light and that there are products used in cars which will pose a problem for them, then it actually all seems quite obvious!

Light, you say that you've got the budget for a full restoration. If so, just do it! cool

Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light] #1625196
21/09/2018 10:29
21/09/2018 10:29
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Essex
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I can't stop thinking about all those wee sea creatures that died and sank to the bottom of the oceans where they rested in peace for millions of years only to have their remains sucked up and burnt through an engine! shocked cry

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