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#1623650 - 06/08/2018 11:49 Most unusal post ever
light Offline
Newbie

Registered: 18/03/2006
Posts: 13
Is the interior seats made from dead animal skin or man made alternative. The car is a 1998 fiat coupe 20 valve turbo. Also is the steering wheel and gear stick gaitor and door panels made from dead animal skin in this car.

Regards

Light

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#1623652 - 06/08/2018 12:08 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light]
Nigel Offline
Club member 123
Forum veteran

Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 16924
Loc: Staffordshire
You're right - very unusual post.... wink

Some cars have leather, some have cloth. Anything that looks like leather WILL be leather - there's no artificial alternative

A car with leather seats will also have leather steering wheel, gearknob and armrests (unless the seats were retro-fitted to a car which originally had cloth interior, in which case, the armrests and gearknob could easily be vinyl).

I'm not 100% sure, but I think all 20VTs have a leather steering wheel
_________________________


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#1623655 - 06/08/2018 12:48 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light]
light Offline
Newbie

Registered: 18/03/2006
Posts: 13
Thank you Nigel some new car manufacturers are using a leather alternative (fiat 500x cross)
I am starting to restore my fiat 20 valve turbo 40000 miles.
Probably the only VEGAN coupe driver.
If the interior is all dead animal skin then I may reconsider restoration.

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#1623657 - 06/08/2018 13:12 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light]
Nigel Offline
Club member 123
Forum veteran

Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 16924
Loc: Staffordshire
Originally Posted By light
If the interior is all dead animal skin then I may reconsider restoration.


No need - just advertise a free leather interior with a swap for a good cloth interior - that way everyone's happy laugh
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#1623660 - 06/08/2018 14:07 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light]
andyps Offline
Club member 1482
Enjoying the ride

Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 1130
Loc: Pontefract, West Yorkshire
Is there a truly vegan car? Not something I've ever looked at but it possibly unlikely that a car contains absolutely nothing of animal origin, but who knows.

It would be relatively easy to change any parts that are leather covered, steering wheel might be the hardest but there will be someone out there with the capability to recover it with a non-animal product.
_________________________
Andy


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#1623666 - 06/08/2018 15:30 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light]
light Offline
Newbie

Registered: 18/03/2006
Posts: 13
Changing interior for cloth still leaves steering wheel and gear lever gaitor. Does anyone know for certain if these two items are animal skin or man made??
Regards

Light

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#1623668 - 06/08/2018 16:02 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light]
Nigel Offline
Club member 123
Forum veteran

Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 16924
Loc: Staffordshire
Gear lever gaiter and handbrake gaiter are man-made material, regardless of whether the seats are leather
_________________________


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#1623669 - 06/08/2018 16:08 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light]
Nigel Offline
Club member 123
Forum veteran

Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 16924
Loc: Staffordshire
How far do you want to go?

Tyres are made using stearic acid, derived from animal fats. At least one big-name manufacturer has managed to use a man-made alternative though.

Many adhesives, antifreeze and even brake fluid contain animal products

Quite simply, I don't believe its possible to be truly vegan AND own / drive a car. However, I accept that with some care and effort, you can reduce the amount of animal product that you force yourself to tolerate
_________________________


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#1623671 - 06/08/2018 16:55 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light]
MarioCirillo Offline
Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop

Registered: 17/07/2008
Posts: 12509
Loc: Watford
most cars inc the coupe have a leather steering wheel so unlikely to avoid it unless you buy an aftermarket one which will likely be cheap plastic from china however as nigel says likely the chemicals will have some derivative of "animal" in them

You will also sacrifice the airbag if you replace the steering wheel.
_________________________
Proud Owner of Rosso Speed LE041

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#1623672 - 06/08/2018 17:05 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light]
GrahamL Offline
I need some sleep

Registered: 17/12/2005
Posts: 3495
Loc: Pothole City
Gear knob, steering wheel and door arm rests are all leather, but you won't get very far without oil and petrol (both made from dead animals) anyway. tongue

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#1623673 - 06/08/2018 17:07 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light]
DaveG Online   content
Club member 311
Forum is my life

Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 6887
Loc: Lightwater, Surrey, UK
Originally Posted By Nigel
Tyres are made using stearic acid, derived from animal fats...Many adhesives, antifreeze and even brake fluid contain animal products

Hey, are you sure about that? Tyres contain a lot of (man-made) styrene derivatives amongst other man-made and natural products (eg: natural rubber from trees), is that what you meant? And there was me thinking that anti-freeze and brake fluid were mostly man-made ethylene glycols, so I wonder what animal products are in there?
_________________________
1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake

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#1623675 - 06/08/2018 17:15 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light]
DaveG Online   content
Club member 311
Forum is my life

Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 6887
Loc: Lightwater, Surrey, UK
Originally Posted By GrahamL
you won't get very far without oil and petrol (both made from dead animals) anyway

Indeed, and most non-metallic parts of the car are made from petrochemicals derived from oil or other hydrocarbons. Think of all the "plastic" parts and "rubber" parts, the carpets, headlining, insulation, headlights and tail lights, etc. - all petrochemicals.

But the quest I think is not to stop use of already dead animals in all their forms, but to stop killing any more, so that the leather seats can be restored using faux leather (eg: PVC can be used to make synthetic leather, with some already dead animals in there) but not fresh new leather (which will result in a sacrifice of some living animals)
_________________________
1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake

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#1623678 - 06/08/2018 17:56 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light]
light Offline
Newbie

Registered: 18/03/2006
Posts: 13
Hey everyone I am a 54 year old male and vegan. I did not start this post to cause an argument. I have owned the coup for 14 years (off the road for 3) I am considering restoring ie investing time and money in this car.
I am a passionate vegan (animal rights) not really caring for the environment ie chemicals etc.
Probably animal byproducts are used in the production of all vehicles in many hidden places.
I will not have a vehicle with animal skin as seats steering wheel gear knob etc. One of our other vehicles is a new fiat 500xcross with faux leather interior.
I need to make a rational decision regarding selling my coup or changing the integrity of the interior to a non animal skin derivative, As my car is so original then probably the easy solution is to sell the car.

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#1623679 - 06/08/2018 18:55 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light]
rowl Offline
Club member 1201
Newbie

Registered: 26/08/2012
Posts: 24
Loc: Scotland
Well, it’s tempting to stray into philosophy (and also whether the environment and animal rights can really be separate concerns!), but pragmatically... why not get a nice cloth interior (I’m sure there would be people delighted to swap) and have the steering wheel retrimmed in synthetic material?

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#1623681 - 06/08/2018 19:40 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light]
light Offline
Newbie

Registered: 18/03/2006
Posts: 13
I have never seen the cloth interior for a 20 valve turbo.
Does anyone know if the steering wheel can actually be recovered as per factory spec.

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#1623682 - 06/08/2018 20:39 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light]
Edinburgh Offline
Club Board member
I AM a Coop

Registered: 04/03/2007
Posts: 10060
Loc: Auld Reekie
Originally Posted By light
Hey everyone I am a 54 year old male and vegan. I did not start this post to cause an argument. I have owned the coup for 14 years (off the road for 3) I am considering restoring ie investing time and money in this car.
I am a passionate vegan (animal rights) not really caring for the environment ie chemicals etc.
Probably animal byproducts are used in the production of all vehicles in many hidden places.
I will not have a vehicle with animal skin as seats steering wheel gear knob etc. One of our other vehicles is a new fiat 500xcross with faux leather interior.
I need to make a rational decision regarding selling my coup or changing the integrity of the interior to a non animal skin derivative, As my car is so original then probably the easy solution is to sell the car.


Hi light, you're right it is an unusual post and it's the first time I've seen reference to this in a dozen years' forum participation! Your title strikes a distinct tone - perhaps anticipating (from bitter experience?) responses of a contrary nature - but I don't think anyone here is trying to be argumentative....perhaps fascinated as I am that this subject has arisen. Many of us have intolerances or allergies (me to wheat for example*) so why shouldn't someone else who is comparatively new to the forum (but not the coupe smile ).

The "unusual" is the key word, but there's an equal responsibility as I see it on both of our sides to respect our fellow H-B's and attempt to understand the other's point-of-view.

You love your coupe as you've had it for ages and not moved it on even when off the road so why not do your best as said above to eliminate the obvious no-no's (where you're concerned) and continue keeping it? As long as you're on top of the dreaded tinworm you have a fighting chance!

Just my tuppence-ha'penny's worth.....

*but with wheat how can I guarantee there are no traces of it in other products?
_________________________


So there, Photobucket...

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#1623683 - 06/08/2018 20:42 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: rowl]
Edinburgh Offline
Club Board member
I AM a Coop

Registered: 04/03/2007
Posts: 10060
Loc: Auld Reekie
Originally Posted By rowl
Well, it’s tempting to stray into philosophy (and also whether the environment and animal rights can really be separate concerns!), but pragmatically... why not get a nice cloth interior (I’m sure there would be people delighted to swap) and have the steering wheel retrimmed in synthetic material?


Agreed....

Btw rowl how's your steel grey? Pass it every so often wave

Give us a shout if you want to risk neeting four mad chaps with a broomy 20vt project car laugh
_________________________


So there, Photobucket...

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#1623686 - 06/08/2018 21:13 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light]
andyps Offline
Club member 1482
Enjoying the ride

Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 1130
Loc: Pontefract, West Yorkshire
If you like the car and want to restore it for your own use with the prospect of selling it at some point in the future my recommendation would be to get a cloth interior, another set of door cards, steering wheel and gear knob and recover the leather parts with a non-animal material so you can happily use the car. Then if you want to sell it later you could do so with the original parts should a buyer want it original.
_________________________
Andy


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#1623690 - 06/08/2018 22:58 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: andyps]
light Offline
Newbie

Registered: 18/03/2006
Posts: 13
This is the option if I keep the car however seems like a lot of work.

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#1623705 - 07/08/2018 12:54 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light]
andyps Offline
Club member 1482
Enjoying the ride

Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 1130
Loc: Pontefract, West Yorkshire
Plenty of places to help with the steering wheel - https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=steering+wheel+recovering&meta=
_________________________
Andy


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#1623728 - 08/08/2018 00:46 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light]
Edinburgh Offline
Club Board member
I AM a Coop

Registered: 04/03/2007
Posts: 10060
Loc: Auld Reekie
Alcantara is an option.....
_________________________


So there, Photobucket...

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#1623732 - 08/08/2018 09:20 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: Edinburgh]
andyps Offline
Club member 1482
Enjoying the ride

Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 1130
Loc: Pontefract, West Yorkshire
Originally Posted By Edinburgh
Alcantara is an option.....
That's what I would go for if not using leather.
_________________________
Andy


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#1623733 - 08/08/2018 09:22 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light]
light Offline
Newbie

Registered: 18/03/2006
Posts: 13
Hi everyone lots of research lots of progress.
Options are steering wheel recovered in black alcantata
The seats and doors may be recovered professionally in black vinyl or cloth or a mixture of both. Costing for wheel 170 gbp cost of seats etc 700 - 800 gbp.
I was looking at replacing gear selector knob with a brushed aluminium knob to match hand brake.
Any thoughts?

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#1623735 - 08/08/2018 13:15 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light]
andyps Offline
Club member 1482
Enjoying the ride

Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 1130
Loc: Pontefract, West Yorkshire
It would probably be a lot cheaper to get a set of cloth seats rather than recover the ones you have - if you don't want to keep the leather someone would probably swap for free (I did that for a set of rear seats for mine). Replacing gearknob is a good idea. Door cards possibly hardest to sort.
_________________________
Andy


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#1623736 - 08/08/2018 14:07 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: andyps]
Nigel Offline
Club member 123
Forum veteran

Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 16924
Loc: Staffordshire
Originally Posted By andyps
Door cards possibly hardest to sort.


Dead easy - Coupes with cloth seats had vinyl armrests on the door cards

Five minutes to get the doorcard off, five minutes to swap the armrest, five minutes to put it all back together again. Sorted smile
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#1623744 - 08/08/2018 18:33 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light]
light Offline
Newbie

Registered: 18/03/2006
Posts: 13
The issue with cloth interior is most are well used (and abused)
A retrim in a vinyl (very close to the original animal skin) is a new interior albeit an expensive one.
I have been thinking on this topic and perhaps merits some discussion regarding a head v heart decision for restoration.
What is the true value ie what would most members pay with their own money for a standard 20 valve turbo car completely restored although not a show car
Head equals spending more money than car is worth on total resto.
Heart says grin factor and car deserves the tlc (14 years owner)
In any event I have the necessary budget for total restoration
The car is bound to have a market value

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#1623776 - 09/08/2018 18:39 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light]
Brilly1uk Offline
Club member 1034
My life on the forum

Registered: 20/04/2012
Posts: 1781
Loc: Glos
Interesting debate.
Why not consider some aftermarket replacement front seats?
The standard 20VT seats are not the most bolstered anyway and I believe it should be possible to get a direct fit replacement covered in say alcantara?
_________________________
Fiat Coupe 20VT
Alfa Romeo Spider 939
BMW X1 XLine

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#1624641 - 03/09/2018 17:31 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light]
Mark20VT Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/06/2018
Posts: 2
Loc: Guernsey
I have a very good cloth interior in my spare 20VT. The car has only covered 49K and the seats and door cards are unmarked, no wear rips or tears. But obviously it would be a swap for the dead animal skin.

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#1624834 - 09/09/2018 16:28 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light]
JKD Offline
Forum is my job

Registered: 20/09/2008
Posts: 4398
Loc:
This is a very interesting topic indeed and not something that I would have ever thought played a part in driving/owning a car.

Of course when you then realise that there will be passionate vegan motorists like Light and that there are products used in cars which will pose a problem for them, then it actually all seems quite obvious!

Light, you say that you've got the budget for a full restoration. If so, just do it! cool

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#1625196 - 21/09/2018 12:29 Re: Most unusal post ever [Re: light]
Trappy Offline
Forum is my life

Registered: 27/02/2006
Posts: 5120
Loc: Essex
I can't stop thinking about all those wee sea creatures that died and sank to the bottom of the oceans where they rested in peace for millions of years only to have their remains sucked up and burnt through an engine! shocked cry
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FC Performance 420bhp, 328lbs/ft

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