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Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1624964
13/09/2018 12:58
13/09/2018 12:58
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Thanks Joe. That's the one. To save the problem of dead links for future readers of this, look in ebay for; "3 Pin to 16 Pin OBD2 Adapter Connector Diagnostic Cable Lead Wire for Fiat" Hope that helps others.


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Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1624965
13/09/2018 13:34
13/09/2018 13:34
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Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1624974
14/09/2018 11:35
14/09/2018 11:35
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With great relief I can now say my air bag system is reset and the light is out, and the MoT is done. But it was not from the cables and software recommended on this forum. After showing the garage the correct ecu port they were able to talk to the ecu with their machine, which is a 'Snap-On Modus Ultra' but with using leads from their previous diagnostic machine, a Solus Probe (the engineer thinks that the Solus Probe would have worked too, but cannot confirm that). This is great because I tried to download the trw2scan and was told a FTD2XX.dll file was missing and I thought "Here we go", round and round trying to get the software downloaded, but the garage phoned today and told me the good news. Perhaps the cables I have bought will be useful for other diagnostic work later.

So the conclusion, your local garage can reset your air bag if they have the right machine and know the correct ecu port to enter.

Remember, the light not going out is an MoT failure, so get it fixed or, If you're happy for the air bag to be disabled, remove the bulb remove before putting the car in for MoT (You can't take it out after an initial fail as the tester knows the air bag is not funtioning, if there is no light in the first instance then he can't know there is warning system at all).

Love and pace to all.


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Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1624981
15/09/2018 08:06
15/09/2018 08:06
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Well done Andrew, the cables recommended would rest it but like yourself I use a more modern Modus unit with older cables.

Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1625035
17/09/2018 00:10
17/09/2018 00:10
Joined: May 2006
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Surrey Hills, U.K
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Simply unplugging the connector from the Airbag ECU which is bolted to the transmission tunnel, behind the centre console, is far quicker than removing bulbs from the dash.

Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1625085
18/09/2018 11:29
18/09/2018 11:29
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I did quite a bit of rooting around looking for the correct port but I didn't see the ecu itself (or if I did I didn't realise it), so if anyone has a photo of it that might be handy.

So now I have cables to tap into the ecu (not just the airbag ecu but also other systems I presume as all the ecu ports seem to be the same) what other uses might they come in useful for?

btw, the air-con is now working after some 5 years or so without it. Yipee! It only needed a new condensing rad and dryer! I had to turn it off on the way home from getting it charged as it was too cold!


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Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1625119
19/09/2018 10:46
19/09/2018 10:46
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Lightwater, Surrey, UK
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The airbag ECU is bolted to the central raised part of the floor underneath the heater / centre console. If you have "plus" carpet extensions, the ECU, cabling and diagnostic socket will be hidden. Otherwise, all that stuff is easy to locate when looking from the passenger foot well.

Just look for the cables with a yellow sleeve. This pic shows the cables/sleeve, and shows the paper label still attached referring to "EURO-BAG" (and "CRASH SENSOR" on the ECU) as a clue. Here's a clearer pic of the ECU and diagnostic socket (lower left, it plugs into a dummy connector attached to a metal bracket).


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1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1625194
21/09/2018 07:53
21/09/2018 07:53
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Thanks Dave thumb


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Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1626256
23/10/2018 12:24
23/10/2018 12:24
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Downhillryder said
There appear to be four different airbag ECUs used on the Coupe. There was an early one from Becker. That is the one that has three wires to the diag socket and can be interrogated and reset by grounding one of the leads

well my car has a three wire socket so i would like to try to reset the light BUT - which of the three wires do I ground?


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Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1626644
02/11/2018 14:44
02/11/2018 14:44
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well I am moving forward now - joined the club and got access to the manual and using the flashing codes of the air bag light I seethat I have three error codes :
4 blinks = wiring of module trigger circuits in contact with earth
6 blinks = resistance of passenger's module trigger device outside tolerance
7 blinks = supply voltage less than 9.5V.

Well I checked the voltage at the battery and get 13.5V. so that is a start. I suppose I now need to check the voltage at the fuse supplying the airbag control unit.


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Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1626647
02/11/2018 15:59
02/11/2018 15:59
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I think one of the options is to reset the system. That would be a good place to start, since it will get rid of errors that have appeared in the past but are no longer present.



Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1626668
03/11/2018 12:05
03/11/2018 12:05
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a good idea barnacle - but how to do it?
p.s. if the fuse supplying the control unit is the one shown in my handbook ( just one of the general fuses in the box in the footwell) that is ok and giving around 13.5V.
Any advice on how to reset it would be most welcome please;
cheers
geoff


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Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1626678
03/11/2018 20:29
03/11/2018 20:29
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According to the manual:

Originally Posted By Mr Fiat

After repairing the fault, repeat the test to make sure there are no other faults present. Bear in mind that the control unit communicates one fault at a time, until the system has been fully repaired. After completing the repairs, delete the memory by connecting the terminal no. 3 of the control unit for between 1 and 5 seconds. All the errors in memory must be deleted one at a time, repeating the procedure each time until the memory is deleted.


Which is not terribly clear, but I read as saying repeat the test multiple times until you get a single blink.

Last edited by barnacle; 03/11/2018 20:29.


Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1626751
06/11/2018 12:42
06/11/2018 12:42
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no, it is not clear at all :
"delete the memory by connecting the terminal no. 3 of the control unit for between 1 and 5 seconds"
connecting it to earth ? I can only assume so.
I am getting three errors - one of which is :
7 blinks = supply voltage less than 9.5V.
I would like to clear this one up first because I think it might be causing the other two errors.
I guess this is the supply voltage at the fuse. Can anyone confirm it this is the regunar fuse in the fusebox or if there is a separate one for the airbag control unit?


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Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1626752
06/11/2018 12:56
06/11/2018 12:56
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The voltage error doesn't mean that the voltage is low right now, it means that at some point since errors were last cleared that the airbag ECU has seen a low voltage (maybe even just for a second) and as that may have caused a "brown out" fault or corruption of the ECU then it's flagged as an error.

Most likely your battery voltage got low at some point, but if it's OK now there's no point in checking fuses and voltages expecting to see a low reading.

Once the errors are cleared if you see the low voltage error again then you may want to replace your battery if the car is left standing without starting for a week or two. If the car is driven every day and you see the low voltage error appearing again then it would be time to start investigating the electrics for problems or a high current drain.

Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1626760
06/11/2018 17:53
06/11/2018 17:53
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I would agree with your assessment: connect it to earth (middle pin if I recollect correctly).

Each time you do it, it will flash out any stored errors. It will also clear those which are no longer active. So I'd take several attempts to read the errors and see if you get back to a no-error state. Or at least just one error to fix.



Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1626796
08/11/2018 07:43
08/11/2018 07:43
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so, thanks Barnacle. We are moving forward. I have now reduced the fault codes down to one.
4 flashes = wiring of module trigger circuits in contact with earth.
Has anyone figured out what this could be ,
cheers
geoff


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Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1626809
08/11/2018 17:33
08/11/2018 17:33
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That sounds like a short circuit on the loom somewhere. The back of the radio is a common area for short circuits, and the wiring is probably going to be going somewhere in that area.

I *believe* that the 'module trigger circuits' are the drive signals that fire the airbags - either the passenger's above the glovebox, or the steering wheel.

Hmm, perhaps there's an issue with the clockspring in the steering wheel?



Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1627069
18/11/2018 10:40
18/11/2018 10:40
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thanks for this Barnacle. sorry for the late reply. (Been to Uk and was very pleased to see the lovely display of Coupes at the NEC. Thanks to all involved. I know from my time with the Panhard club that it is very time consuming.)
Ref your first sentence, do you think I only need to restrict my search to the yellow sleeved part of the loom - or the whole loom in general?


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Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1627087
18/11/2018 21:02
18/11/2018 21:02
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It's been a few years since I've looked at the loom in that area, but *as far as I remember* all the airbag loom has yellow sleeves.



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Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1628103
20/12/2018 16:43
20/12/2018 16:43
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so nothing obvious visibly so far in the centre console but we still have
"4 flashes = wiring of module trigger circuits in contact with earth" so I need to now start dismantling either the drivers or the passengers airbag to invesigate further.
I would appreciate some advice on which side is the most likely culprit?
cheers
geoff


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Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1628159
23/12/2018 06:13
23/12/2018 06:13
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The moving parts are in the steering wheel, where the clockspring carries the signal. Other than that, you're looking at vibration chafing the insulation in the loom. I think it's unlikely to be anything in the airbag units themselves.

One thing to remember: the airbag is an explosive device... when dealing with it, first remove the battery and wait half an hour for any residual capacitors to drain before you dive into the wiring.

When you put it back together, *particularly* as you have a fault on the system, turn the ignition on first and only then reconnect the battery. That way, if it does go bang you're on the outside of the car...



Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1628494
09/01/2019 18:57
09/01/2019 18:57
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Error n°4 is probably the clockspring.

I had a few errors previously and n°4 was one of them :
https://www.fiatcoupeclub.org/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1587739#Post1587739

Today I fitted another ECU. Again, as I fried the previous one at the same time I fried the main ECU... Light off, but only for a few seconds. I've been able to clear 2 of them, the one about the voltage, and the one about the bulb wiring (will maybe reappear). The unknown error n°9 is no longer there, and error n°4 neither. I repplaced the clockspring a few months ago (but the ECU was dead) so it must be the reason.

Now I still have one error, and it wasn't present (I think, I don't remember if it was present when I last checked the dead ECU):
6 - Resistance of passenger's module trigger device outside tolerance

But I don't have a passenger airbag. There is a resistor (I think) behind the glovebox, it gives me 3 Ohms when I measure it.

I don't understand this error. I don't understand how the ECU can know it comes from the passenger side as all the cables going to the driver and (supposed) passenger airbag are connected together on the ECU plug.

Maybe it says it comes from the passenger side by default (because it can be disabled manually if present) and in reality it comes from the driver side ?

Last edited by Yann; 09/01/2019 18:58.
Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1628507
10/01/2019 12:43
10/01/2019 12:43
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I tried disconnecting the driver airbag, and it triggers the error related to it, so it's not the culprit. Maybe the resistor in the passenger side is not correct anymore.

Anyone knows what the resistance value should be ?

Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1628778
19/01/2019 18:05
19/01/2019 18:05
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After searching the forum, I found that 2.2 Ohm resistance should do the job (and now I see in the manual that the airbags are 2.15 Ohms +/- 0.35). THe one installed is 2.7 Ohms.

So I tried with a 2.2 one, tried to clear the fault, it didn't work, but after starting the engine, the light turned off. I decided to replace the old resistance by the new one on the original plug, and tried again. Light came back. And starting the engine / trying with another resistance without soledering it doesn't change anything.

What's wrong ? Can the light go off if I drive the car a bit (the manual states there is an initial test when switching the ignition ON then a continuous test while driving) ?

Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1629083
29/01/2019 16:20
29/01/2019 16:20
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Ok, easy fix. Fitted another airbag ECU today after reading this http://forum.alfa145.com/index.php?showtopic=9670, no more passenger airbag error. I will ask for a refund for the defective unit.
Well, light came back.

Last edited by Yann; 31/01/2019 15:14.
Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1629170
31/01/2019 20:52
31/01/2019 20:52
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renault and Yann

I didnt read all post - but at least a few comments:

1) I used trw2scan with a standard VAGCOM/KL OBD cable and the 3pin Fiat adapter - connected to the loose cable-connector coming out from airbag sensor unit behind the radio.
(I did have to fiddle with port/conn a bit as I recall)
With this I could reset all but one error - which was a real error...

2) I had water from heatingsystem dripping into cables/connector on ABS-unit :-/
= giving internal mem-error on the airbag unit (reported by trw2scan

3) I the end I made a short from ABS to airbag lamp behind dash - neatlyturns on/off together (= looks correct).

see more here:
https://www.fiatcoupeclub.org/forum/ubbt...248#Post1621248

contains info on different airbag units as well... (from some other clever bloke)
You can't always exchange airbag units btw diff coupe models.

Cheers,
M


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Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1629196
02/02/2019 13:22
02/02/2019 13:22
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what a great idea mli - shorting the lamp to the ABS one !!
I think I will do this as a temporarry measure to get through the controle technique.
cheers
geoff


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Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: renault] #1629240
04/02/2019 17:01
04/02/2019 17:01
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Originally Posted By mli
renault and Yann

I didnt read all post - but at least a few comments:

1) I used trw2scan with a standard VAGCOM/KL OBD cable and the 3pin Fiat adapter - connected to the loose cable-connector coming out from airbag sensor unit behind the radio.
(I did have to fiddle with port/conn a bit as I recall)
With this I could reset all but one error - which was a real error...

2) I had water from heatingsystem dripping into cables/connector on ABS-unit :-/
= giving internal mem-error on the airbag unit (reported by trw2scan

3) I the end I made a short from ABS to airbag lamp behind dash - neatlyturns on/off together (= looks correct).

see more here:
https://www.fiatcoupeclub.org/forum/ubbt...248#Post1621248

contains info on different airbag units as well... (from some other clever bloke)
You can't always exchange airbag units btw diff coupe models.

Cheers,
M



The ABS light trick is a known one.
I prefer to fix the problem first. If I can't, I will probably just disconnect the ECU, it may pass the MOT as it doesn't seem to be in the list of MOT defaults.
Originally Posted By renault
what a great idea mli - shorting the lamp to the ABS one !!
I think I will do this as a temporarry measure to get through the controle technique.
cheers
geoff

Même souci, ça va surement finir de la même façon... Je me demande si le fait de débrancher l'ECU (donc pas de lumière) ne passerait pas, ce n'est pas dans la liste des points soumis à contre visite...

Re: Airbag reset with 2 wires for diagnostic? [Re: couper] #1629243
04/02/2019 17:22
04/02/2019 17:22
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je ne suis pas sur en angletere, mais on france il faut allumer la lampe pour passer le controle technique.
It is necessarry for the light to show and then to extinguish in order to pass the controle technique here in france.


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