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#1521049 - 10/01/2015 12:16 Floating discs at last
Nigel Online   sleepy
Club member 123
Forum veteran

Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 16982
Loc: Staffordshire
After more than a decade of killing one piece cast discs, I've finally found some floating discs

teaser pic for now, until I can take some proper photos later....

click to enlarge

They are not meant for a Coupe, but they fit without any modification to either the disc, carrier or hub / caliper - the only element that I have to resolve is that the centre bore of the disc is 60mm, but the Coupe hub is 59mm, so I need to come up with the equivalent of a 0.5mm thick "spigot ring". They are 4 x 100, but the bolt holes are 1mm bigger than the Coupe discs, so they fit without having to open up the holes. The only element that doesn't pan out is the small securing bolt, as the PCD is a little too far out.

I'm SO chuffed - I took an expensive punt on these, as most of the dimensions were the same as the Coupe, but a couple were different enough to have caused an issue - however, I've trial-fitted them to a hub with caliper and they are fine.

Just trying to see if I can get any more
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#1521065 - 10/01/2015 14:29 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: Nigel]
szkom Offline
Forum is my job

Registered: 13/09/2009
Posts: 4625
Loc: ation
I hope you find a way, they look good. My only concern would be how you're going to positively centre that disc with only a 1/2 mm thick spigot when there's a radius between the hub face/locating feature. Might be you need to go larger on the bell centre bore first.

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#1521077 - 10/01/2015 16:24 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: Nigel]
Nigel Online   sleepy
Club member 123
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Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 16982
Loc: Staffordshire
I spoke with my friendly engineering workshop chappy this afternoon - he has also suggested that I should open out the disc centre bore and use a 5mm spigot to force a secure centring of the disc on the hub
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#1521096 - 10/01/2015 18:47 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: Nigel]
magooagain Offline
Club member 259
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Registered: 22/10/2008
Posts: 6460
Loc: ked
On bigger machinery i have seen welds added to spigot's and the like,then machined out to the correct radius.
All though half a mm of weld may be risky?
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#1521140 - 10/01/2015 21:04 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: Nigel]
Nigel Online   sleepy
Club member 123
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Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 16982
Loc: Staffordshire
I'm still working on this in my head......

The disc clearly has to be centred on the hub, otherwise it'll run un-true, vibrate and cause all sorts of problems.

However, unlike the wheel, the disc won't put any weight on the "spigot" - its purely there for positioning purposes - all the force of braking is rotational, not vertical. The wheel bolts will take the force of the braking (if indeed the braking force is even sufficient to cause any disc-slip between the wheel and the face of the hub - I rather doubt it)

So - I'm going to get a 185mm long strip of 0.5mm thick metal (stainless preferably) and coil it round the hub centre, then fit the disc over it. It should be a push fit, but it MUST be centred.

I'll then test thoroughly and see if the "spigot" stays put
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#1521141 - 10/01/2015 21:11 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: Nigel]
barnacle Offline
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Registered: 17/12/2005
Posts: 31948
Loc: Hemel in the Hempstead
You've been multiplying by pi, so you have... but don't forget it's another three and a bit millimetres circumference at the outside of the hole.
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#1521145 - 10/01/2015 21:21 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: Nigel]
Nigel Online   sleepy
Club member 123
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Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 16982
Loc: Staffordshire
And some more photos....

click to enlarge click to enlarge

LOTS of cooling capability...

click to enlarge

Proper floating mountings...

click to enlarge

Really can't wait to get them fitted and try them out
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#1521147 - 10/01/2015 21:24 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: barnacle]
Nigel Online   sleepy
Club member 123
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Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 16982
Loc: Staffordshire
Originally Posted By: barnacle
You've been multiplying by pi, so you have... but don't forget it's another three and a bit millimetres circumference at the outside of the hole.


Aye - I twigged that, but I'd prefer there to be a small gap in the ring, rather than it being a perfect circumferential length - will allow for a bit of expansion due to heat
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#1521150 - 10/01/2015 21:43 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: Nigel]
jas_racing Offline
Club member 206
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Registered: 23/06/2006
Posts: 1783
Loc: Peterborough, UK
Abarth Punto Evo EsseEsse discs?
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#1521154 - 10/01/2015 22:16 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: jas_racing]
Nigel Online   sleepy
Club member 123
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Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 16982
Loc: Staffordshire
Originally Posted By: jas_racing
Abarth Punto Evo EsseEsse discs?


thumb

You have PM
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#1521156 - 10/01/2015 22:20 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: Nigel]
Big_Muzzie Offline
Forum is my job

Registered: 31/08/2009
Posts: 4798
Loc: Oakworth
I thought only the 695 carried floating discs as standard?
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#1521179 - 11/01/2015 08:49 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: Nigel]
nick_d Offline
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Registered: 10/10/2006
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Loc: kidderminster
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#1521182 - 11/01/2015 09:48 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: Nigel]
barnacle Offline
Club Member 18 - Minister without Portfolio
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Registered: 17/12/2005
Posts: 31948
Loc: Hemel in the Hempstead
Originally Posted By: Nigel
Originally Posted By: barnacle
You've been multiplying by pi, so you have... but don't forget it's another three and a bit millimetres circumference at the outside of the hole.


Aye - I twigged that, but I'd prefer there to be a small gap in the ring, rather than it being a perfect circumferential length - will allow for a bit of expansion due to heat


A fair point, but I'm concerned that if you don't get an exact match you could effectively have a flat spot where the gap is. Shouldn't be a lot, though; don't forget that you will stretch the outside of the strip when you curve it.

Also, the hole will expand when the brakes are hot; with cast iron centres and stainless steel rings you'll have a similar expansion ratio difference as you have with piston rings/cylinder bore, and they get away with about ten thou.

What's the advantage of floating discs?
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#1521186 - 11/01/2015 10:14 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: Nigel]
jimbob13 Offline
Club member 908
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Registered: 15/08/2011
Posts: 2595
Loc: angus, scotland
As I understand it, the advantage is that it allows the disc to effectively self centre, which reduces drag and allows the disc to go through its thermal cycle unimpeded. Helps reduce the risk of the disc warping. But I may well be waffling bull poop....
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#1521192 - 11/01/2015 10:50 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: Nigel]
szkom Offline
Forum is my job

Registered: 13/09/2009
Posts: 4625
Loc: ation
Nigel, I think you'll struggle to build the car with your solution. IMHO, not enough depth to the bell centre bore owing to the chamfer/radius interface you'll encounter at the hub face; I don't think it'd ever run true.

For my money I'd create a spigot that's an interference fit to the hub, then machine that assembly to a tight clearance fit for the bell. You'd need to measure the various radii to make sure the spigot starts life with sufficient diameter to transpose the radii. Then open open the bell to suit.

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#1521221 - 11/01/2015 15:08 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: Nigel]
Cooperman Offline
Club member 215
Enjoying the ride

Registered: 08/06/2008
Posts: 870
Loc: Kent, South East
Pardon me for asking but would it not be easier to change the hubs?
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#1521228 - 11/01/2015 16:44 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: Nigel]
Kayjey Offline
Club Member #10
Je suis un Coupé

Registered: 08/08/2000
Posts: 9613
Loc: Zele, Belgium
Can't you have someone CNC a new center for the discs to sit on?
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#1521253 - 11/01/2015 19:51 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: Nigel]
Big_Muzzie Offline
Forum is my job

Registered: 31/08/2009
Posts: 4798
Loc: Oakworth
Personally I'd machine out the disc, including a key, and go and see your local wire erosion firm and get them to make some inserts. They work to 0.5 microns (usually) so I am sure they'd get an OE fit for you.
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Less torque, more thrust!!

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#1521257 - 11/01/2015 20:20 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: Nigel]
knight7660 Offline
Competition Level

Registered: 16/12/2007
Posts: 2237
Loc: Windsor/ Reading
These are looking good Nigel shame I'm moving onto 330mm smile
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#1521260 - 11/01/2015 20:40 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: Nigel]
Per Offline
I need some sleep

Registered: 03/01/2006
Posts: 3033
Loc: Sweden
Looks good Nigel!
Knight 7660: I got some response from Compbrake for split 330mm disc's before my Coupe was destroyed, just in case you're on the hunt!
Check them out, I asked for Alfa 147 GTA 330mm replacement discs with 98x4 holes so it would fit straight on. Lucky me I never got to pay!
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Re-Bangled

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#1521280 - 11/01/2015 22:37 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: Nigel]
Nigel Online   sleepy
Club member 123
Forum veteran

Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 16982
Loc: Staffordshire
I suggest you do some research on Compbrake before buying - they don't have a very good reputation
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#1521299 - 12/01/2015 00:58 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: Nigel]
Per Offline
I need some sleep

Registered: 03/01/2006
Posts: 3033
Loc: Sweden
Aha. Good riddance then..
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#1521404 - 12/01/2015 20:16 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: Nigel]
jonofitzer Offline
Making a profit

Registered: 07/03/2010
Posts: 288
Loc: ireland
A machine shop should be able to bore them out in a couple minutes and make you the spacer rings also. Another option is to build the gap with weld and machine it to desired bore.

I converted my hubs to 5 stud which involved machining the disks and hubs and a custom alloy spacer. Have not had a single problem yet

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#1524812 - 08/02/2015 21:55 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: Nigel]
andyps Offline
Club member 1482
Enjoying the ride

Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 1149
Loc: Pontefract, West Yorkshire
Any update on these Nigel?
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#1524848 - 09/02/2015 11:05 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: Nigel]
Nigel Online   sleepy
Club member 123
Forum veteran

Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 16982
Loc: Staffordshire
Not yet....

I've sourced some 0.5mm stainless sheet, in order to make up a spacer - just need to work out how to cut it without distorting it - I guess a guillotine would be best
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#1524929 - 09/02/2015 16:45 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: Nigel]
andyps Offline
Club member 1482
Enjoying the ride

Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 1149
Loc: Pontefract, West Yorkshire
Thanks - good luck and look forward to hearing more.
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#1531034 - 23/03/2015 12:04 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: Nigel]
Nigel Online   sleepy
Club member 123
Forum veteran

Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 16982
Loc: Staffordshire
Damn....

I wonder if 20vt front hub flanges come in different sizes....

When I trial-fitted one of the floating discs to a loose hub, it seemed to fit just fine (along with the Brembo caliper). However, then I came to fit the discs to my car on Saturday, the flange is very slightly too big for the disc centre - it'll need a bit of machining

The project continues....
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#1531038 - 23/03/2015 12:22 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: Nigel]
Gimmo Offline
Enjoying the ride

Registered: 23/08/2013
Posts: 479
Loc: North Italy
Good luck Nigel.
A friend of mine in Italy has got Brembo Abarth EsseEsse floating discs.
They are expensive, but great!

Good work!
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#1531043 - 23/03/2015 13:01 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: Nigel]
Jimbo Offline
Je suis un Coupé

Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 9705
Loc: Gone
Was the hub hot on the car Nigel? Im just wondering why it would fit on a spare hub but not one on the car. Thermal expansion could be a reason if the car had been used.
Maybe heat the disc centre up too and see if it fits then, so long as both expand then youre safe.

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#1531049 - 23/03/2015 13:33 Re: Floating discs at last [Re: Gimmo]
Nigel Online   sleepy
Club member 123
Forum veteran

Registered: 16/12/2005
Posts: 16982
Loc: Staffordshire
Originally Posted By: Gimmo
Good luck Nigel.
A friend of mine in Italy has got Brembo Abarth EsseEsse floating discs.
They are expensive, but great!

Good work!


On a 20VT? - If so, could you ask him to contact me to let me know what modifications were needed
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