Nice to see the hybrid is still giving good results there Karl.

you know me guys it'll be fine once ive skinned my knuckles etc,

ive been under the car this morning and its a tiny paper cut size crack behind the 4bolt exhaust mount just befor the cat.

as ive landed the bumper flexed up and its scuffed the whole under side of the fmic, ive checked all the wishbones,linkages,suspension and cant see any noticable proplems itll be on the ramps at work tomorrow and ill check the front without any load.

thanks for the support guys

MABR - I was 220 at slightly under 1 bar and 226 at a tad under 1.2.

Thanks for thanks lads and also thanks to Eldiniho for sorting out the bating order.

Yellow - hope everything's OK after you've had the coop on the ramps. Let us know how you get on.

Hi there, good to see you doing a rolling road, however the results are way off what has been found on many other rolling roads.

a standard Coupe running 1.2 bar achieves 250bhp, maybe more, and the GTEC is rated at 250-260 bhp which has been shown time and time again on various reference roads, so to get 'only' 225 bhp suggests the rolling road is out.

Remember, the road measures torque and extrapolates via revs to get bhp.

If the rolling road was out by 500 revs, this would change the figures by 500/5250, therefore 225 bhp would *really* be 246bhp, and Eldinho with my old Coupe would be 355bhp, and I have over 50 rolling road runs at different rolling roads to show it should do 350-370 depending upon atmospheric conditions etc.

Joe

I'm no expert with this however how do you account the standard coupes returning what they ought to plus Cowboys and MattM's were almost bang on to what they anticipated As MattM pointed out he spent a few hundred notes getting it superchipped and a proper map to achieve 255 - is it realistic to expect the same from a chip through the post. I know many owners swear by them and indeed my power delivery is smoother and the cars more economical but gaining an extra 25-30bhp, I dunno......

G_Man, what was your result with the G-Tech?

You would think if it was showing lower than it should then the standard coops would be much lower, however, if people are going to argue that then I'm happy since it means mine would be outputting more than manufacturer's spec.

Well.... quick question fraggers...

500/5252 would be the calculation for torque? So the torque figure maybe lower...now torque is what is actually measured from the rr, then converted to bhp? But this throws everyones results right out? How would this happen?

Ross

On my first run (slightly under 1 bar) it was 220. On the second when the lads adjusted it to almost 1.2 (for the Gtech1)it was 226. I recall MattM expected 255 (which he got at a previous RR) and I think he posted 256 so no issue there Have to say I'm intrigued now so I may book myself in for another run else where for a comparison - like Well Lane......

I've never been to this dyno but I am assuming it is the standard type of coast down dyno.

Normally they calibrate the dyno rollers to engine revs, so they can then extrapolate engine revs from roller speed. There is an ideal range of roller speed, so they will choose the 'gear' in the car to achieve the ideal roller speed.

If they do not calibrate correctly ,or the rollers themselves are out (poorly calibrated maintained etc), then the extrapolation to revs will be incorrect.

I think it was mentioned somewhere that the revs were out by 500rpm, if they think the revs were less than they actually were then the calculation to power will show less power.

Bhp = revs x lb/ft/5250

Rolling road days can often be a source of frustration, especially if peeps don't get what they were expecting ,that's why I used to go to several different dynos.

The Gtec 1 chip will generally mainly increase power due to running higher boost levels, so if you fit one then take out the ebv, and run stock boost, then you won't really see much improvement.
You really need to run higher than standard boost levels to get increases in power.

It would be interesting for everyone to list their modifications (or not) the boost level run and their results.

Joe

G-Man, time and time again a Gtec1 coupe running 1.2-1.3 bar will see 250-260bhp being otherwise standard.

joe

Yeah agree with what you said dude. Because of the run down date tho, it might not be the increase that would expected from running 500rpm out...

Eldinho is comming up here for a direct comparison against myself. Will be using a dastek rolling road i believe, so should be a good comparison. Its a new rolling road aswell.

Ross

It all depends on boost control method fraggers. Its the boost at redline which causes the problem. The torque figures would give a better indication of the rollers.

Ross

Joe - as an example, mine was running a Gtech1, PRV, K & N Panel and a BlueFlame Cat-Back exhaust.

I knew the car was overboosting to 1.4 Bar but it still only managed 234 BHP. Was hoping for @ 250.

Before it goes back on the rollers, I'll be having a Greddy EBC fitted. At the moment, the standard chip is back in and the standard EBV is in operation.

Check ur boost at redline mabr.... also what was your torque? running 1.4 it would be around 270-280lb/ft.

Ross

MABR, what was your midrange boost level? , PRV's can overboost a fair bit?
Has been shown that this setup will see 250bhp often enough



Yep, I was referring to midrange boost levels in otherwise standard cars.

h2ypr, yes Dastek rolling road should be a very useful comparison between Eldinho's setup and yours

Joe

Mine was hitting 234 at between 5500 and 6000 RPM. Power started to tail off after 6000.

Sorry, forgot to say that torque peaked at 240 at 4250 RPM.

Bugger - you're too quick for me!

Boost peaked at 3500 RPM.

Hi Joe

I was looking forward to your comments on this, I knew you would have had a few!

It is quite strange how a few people got very low figures and then others got what they expected!

I will try and get the graphs up in the next day or so, so you can have a good look. I'm not really too fussed on the power figure as at the end of the day it is just pub talk, the car does itself justice on the road My main aim was too make sure the fuelling was ok and everything was ok, which i haven't really accomplished as the results aren't consistent.

Also i will be sending a PM shortly regarding something else.

Mark

RacingLine appear to have a DynoDynamics rolling road. They are one of the best for WHP measurements, I know Cyclone and Jamiepm have always liked the DD rollers. Normally on a rolling road day, DynoDynamics use a "shootout" mode which simply calculates wheel torque based on the acceleration of the roller mass. This is a very accurate and repeatable measurement for WHP i.e. the mass of the rollers never changes, which a lot of people prefer. However, the fly power does not use a coastdown method therefore they simply add a fixed % drivetrain loss to give you the power figure. If you have your wheel power figures then that may give a better indication. I think it very unlikely that calibration is an issue so need to look at other issues.

I think ATW it was 279bhp. which i beleive is still 30 bhp less to what Joe used to get!

The issue with the RR being out by 500rpm and has been like that for a year doesn't fill me with confidence!

mines got a fmic,gtec1 k&n filter and prv set at 1.1bar was expecting 250ish,

first run made 212at the flywheel that was my best run, dissapointed to say the least.

then i turned to coop into the general lee!!!!

Hows ther carbon fibre splitter Ben?

Now good i imagine.

fine the whole bumper flexed up 6inches and scrapped the whole bottom of the fmic

sorry I had to rush off yesterday, just got back now.

My results were 215 bhp at the fly, 180 at the wheels, with:

Gtech 2
GTi-R Hybrid Turbo
Pace FMIC
Straight Induction pipe
K&N Cone
Blueflame 3" turbo back with decat
Forge DV006
Walbro 255 fuel pump + wiring mod
Blitz i-D 3 boost controller just under 1.2 bar at 4500rpm according to the graph.

I was expecting upwards of 250 bhp so 215 was disappointing, just had a full service at motormech and engine and turbo are in excellent condition. I was told the reason it was down was because it's running rich.

2000-3750rpm = 14.5 ~ 15 AFR
3750-4250rpm = drops to 11 AFR
4250-7000rpm = drops to 10 AFR

Any advice? Would I be better switching from Gtech 2 to Gtech 1, or a different chip altogether? I cant afford £500 for a live map!

Thanks

Gtech 2 shouldnt be running that rich at redline. I would agree that your richness is causing your power loss top end...

What is your water temperatures like?

Also 14.5 afr is rather lean for that point in the rev range... Seems as if there is another problem.. like a sensor that is causing mixed figures... what boost was it running between 3000-3750?

Ross

Once warmed up the water temps never go above 90 or below 80.

Boost graph is as follows:

3250rpm = 0.3 bar
3750rpm = 0.7 bar
4300rpm = 1.2 bar

I dont know which sensors do what, too many of them!

Thermostat sounds ok.

Boost figures are VERY LOW for those rpm's. Would explain why the fuelling is like that aswell... there isnt enough boost to trigger the increase in fuel. What boost at 5500rpm/6000rpm/7000rpm?

Ross

between 4300 and 7000rpm it drops down to 0.7 bar according to the graph, which is a far bigger drop than it used to. I tested it a few months ago and it was keeping 1.15 - 1.2 bar at the redline from 1.35 bar peak, but I'm starting to think that might have been wrong and it has never really held that much, because recently the boost gauge pipe split and after it was repaired the boost gauge gave a much lower reading for the same EBC settings (so i turned them up to get 1.2 bar again). I should have looked at the boost controller's reading as well before but I didnt.

Well your lack of boost at the top end will be preventing your power. Not the chip u are using. I ran 0.9 bar redline and got 264bhp with a gt28r... so boost at redline and holding the boost is imperitive. Maybe someone resetting up the boost and getting the correct figure? Have u checked all your boost pipes etc? Do you know that the boost controller is working?

Ross