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Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) #516141
08/01/2008 03:12
08/01/2008 03:12

W
warnysouth
Unregistered
warnysouth
Unregistered
W



Hi everyone,

Got the coupe on the rollers at Perfect Touch recently. Mods at the time:

Panel Filter
Pace SMIC
Peco Catback
Baileys Recirc
GTECH 1
PRV
Autometer Pro-Sport Boost Gauge

Rog @ PF set the PRV to a smidgen under 16psi for me (confirmed on Autometer Gauge). 16psi ~= 1.1bar.

Here are the results.

Power/Torque:

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff259/warnysouth/rollers1.jpg

AFR:

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff259/warnysouth/rollers2.jpg

Rob said that he thought the fueling was spot-on and that the lack of power is probably down to the ECU retarding the ignition. At the time I was running 90% BP Ultimate, and 10% 95RON. I was annoyed, as I had intentionally filled up with the BP fuel! I had no idea it was considered 'inferior super unleaded'. He said I could expect up to another 25-30bhp with 99RON or such like. Graph says he used 4th, although he told me he used 3rd?

I didn't get a boost graph as Rob used the gauge in the car.

Was pretty happy with PT, Rob was very reassuring and answered all my questions. He also took note that I did not wanted him to be extra careful with her!

Any thoughts/comments on the results? Looks pretty similar to Austin's results I thought.

Thanks,

W

Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: ] #516562
08/01/2008 17:24
08/01/2008 17:24
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 626
Westcliff-on-sea,essex
aust_powers Offline
Enjoying the ride
aust_powers  Offline
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 626
Westcliff-on-sea,essex
Hi,

Your results look very close to mine in Power/Torque although your AFR looks much better. \:D

I was running 95Ron at the time and I'm wondering if the gtec map switches over to the higher fuelling map at a certain boost? e.g 1.05 could be on the 'leaner' map whereas 1.1 Bar could be the 'Richer Map' if that makes any sense. \:\?

Have you felt any differecnce now you are running 99ron?

Austin


GT28rs,Pro alloy FMIC,Blueflame exhaust,SIP, Bosch 440cc,Helix organic clutch,Stage 3,331bhp,295lbft
Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: aust_powers] #516607
08/01/2008 18:26
08/01/2008 18:26

W
warnysouth
Unregistered
warnysouth
Unregistered
W



 Originally Posted By: aust_powers
Hi,

Your results look very close to mine in Power/Torque although your AFR looks much better. \:D

I was running 95Ron at the time and I'm wondering if the gtec map switches over to the higher fuelling map at a certain boost? e.g 1.05 could be on the 'leaner' map whereas 1.1 Bar could be the 'Richer Map' if that makes any sense. \:\?

Have you felt any differecnce now you are running 99ron?

Austin


I'm sure there are people on here that will be able to comment on your question about the ECU switching maps.

Maybe GrahamL/Rob(PT) etc might be so kind as to tell us more about how it all works.

As for the 99RON issue. Its very hard to say. Maybe a bit of difference yes. But after my split hose the other day I've been relucant to push the car hard. I would like to go back to PT after doing the fuel pump mod and with 99RON, but they are quite expensive and its a long way away.

Cheers

W

Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: ] #516697
08/01/2008 20:30
08/01/2008 20:30

J
joel
Unregistered
joel
Unregistered
J



you should not use 95 ron fuel with g-tech chips

Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: ] #516781
08/01/2008 22:51
08/01/2008 22:51

W
warnysouth
Unregistered
warnysouth
Unregistered
W



I know. Thats why i filled up with BP Ultimate ;\)

Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: ] #516817
08/01/2008 23:37
08/01/2008 23:37

J
joel
Unregistered
joel
Unregistered
J



 Originally Posted By: warnysouth
I know. Thats why i filled up with BP Ultimate ;\)



sorry warnysouth not aimed at you, this has come up a few times now, i just dont understand why people spend money on mods to increase power, then use low ron fuel \:\?

Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: ] #516820
08/01/2008 23:42
08/01/2008 23:42
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,917
J
JimO Offline
Forum veteran
JimO  Offline
Forum veteran
J

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,917
 Originally Posted By: joel
you should not use 95 ron fuel with a g-tech II chip

Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: JimO] #516823
08/01/2008 23:46
08/01/2008 23:46

J
joel
Unregistered
joel
Unregistered
J



jimo- i didn't think it was advised to on the g-tech 1 either

Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: ] #516825
08/01/2008 23:48
08/01/2008 23:48
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,917
J
JimO Offline
Forum veteran
JimO  Offline
Forum veteran
J

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,917
As far as I know the gtech i can run on either 95 or greater, the gtech ii changes the advance so must be run on better than 95.

But if I had a coupe I would run on better than 95 even with no chip.

Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: JimO] #516833
08/01/2008 23:55
08/01/2008 23:55

J
joel
Unregistered
joel
Unregistered
J



i stand corrected jimo, but i would never use 95 ron fuel either

Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: ] #516836
08/01/2008 23:59
08/01/2008 23:59

W
warnysouth
Unregistered
warnysouth
Unregistered
W



I'm not convinced I would see any difference with 99RON over the BP Ultimate 97.

It might be that my engine, being quite old and been round the block a bit, is just a bit down on power, and 220bhp is all I'm going to get. The assumption that the ECU is retarding the ignition, is just that, an assumption (unless anyone can explain how to verify it)?

Quite happy with that btw, and dont want to waste more money finding out \:\)

Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: ] #516841
09/01/2008 00:05
09/01/2008 00:05

J
joel
Unregistered
joel
Unregistered
J



just putting higher ron fuel in doesn't make your car faster, it just means you can run more advance (from a chip or live map) which = more power

Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: ] #516846
09/01/2008 00:07
09/01/2008 00:07

W
warnysouth
Unregistered
warnysouth
Unregistered
W



Exactly. But I have no way of telling whether the 99 over the BP ultimate which actually yield any more ignition advance. Its an expensive question to answer \:\)

Last edited by warnysouth; 09/01/2008 00:08.
Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: ] #516849
09/01/2008 00:11
09/01/2008 00:11

J
joel
Unregistered
joel
Unregistered
J



99 ron is the best for mapping & will give the best results.
it's hard to tell how much, maybe 5-10 bhp

Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: ] #516853
09/01/2008 00:14
09/01/2008 00:14
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 787
Midlands
ash_p Offline
Club member 2001
ash_p  Offline
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Enjoying the ride

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 787
Midlands
Isn't v power cheaper fuel anyway to the bp ulticrap. I have only ever put v power in mine as i get better mpg, so even though it costs more at the pump i go further on it so save money.
I remember once putting the bp in my bravo and it really was poor, not as lively and drank it like no tomorrow.

You should try some v power scott, i think you will find it drives alot better and might help your ignition advance even though you can't check it.

Ash


[Linked Image]
335bhp gt28rsr
Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: ash_p] #516860
09/01/2008 00:17
09/01/2008 00:17

W
warnysouth
Unregistered
warnysouth
Unregistered
W



Hi Ash,

Well I'm running Tesco's 99 RON at the moment. Car feels very quick (1st gear is manic). Not sure how MPG is doing. Need to do a full tank.

Cheers,

W

Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: ash_p] #516862
09/01/2008 00:19
09/01/2008 00:19

J
joel
Unregistered
joel
Unregistered
J



i agree with ash, i was mapped at PT with v power & used it before the the mapping

Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: ] #516868
09/01/2008 00:24
09/01/2008 00:24
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 787
Midlands
ash_p Offline
Club member 2001
ash_p  Offline
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Enjoying the ride

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 787
Midlands
I haven't tried tesco 99 ron as i can't get it round me, but should be about the same as v power i should think, The car should start to get better and better as it starts to run the better fuel.

Joel i have just been looking at your rr session, i have mine in afew weeks, you got nice power and torque from the ulrtaspool, its not that much different to the gtir but slightly better spool, hope i get similar power as yours.

Ash


[Linked Image]
335bhp gt28rsr
Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: ] #516871
09/01/2008 00:25
09/01/2008 00:25

W
warnysouth
Unregistered
warnysouth
Unregistered
W



 Originally Posted By: joel
99 ron is the best for mapping & will give the best results.
it's hard to tell how much, maybe 5-10 bhp


Well according to PT its up to 7 or 8 bhp per degree of ignition retardation, and the ECU can potentially pull it back by 3 or 4 degrees. So thats 21-32bhp potentially.

Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: ] #516882
09/01/2008 00:34
09/01/2008 00:34
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 787
Midlands
ash_p Offline
Club member 2001
ash_p  Offline
Club member 2001
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 787
Midlands
So then you would be running the normal gtec 1 power of about 250. Bess keep putting it in, more power \:\)


[Linked Image]
335bhp gt28rsr
Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: ash_p] #516884
09/01/2008 00:37
09/01/2008 00:37

W
warnysouth
Unregistered
warnysouth
Unregistered
W



 Originally Posted By: ash_p
So then you would be running the normal gtec 1 power of about 250. Bess keep putting it in, more power \:\)


Well I'm not using the BP stuff anymoe, terrible MPG on that and Im not using 95 , so its v-power or 99 for me! . Always suspected it but assumed that if it were rubbish, they wouldnt be able to market it in the way they do?


Last edited by warnysouth; 09/01/2008 00:38.
Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: ] #516969
09/01/2008 02:28
09/01/2008 02:28

C
coupedave
Unregistered
coupedave
Unregistered
C



mine runs best on tesco 99ron, even better than v-power for mine.
i remember i think it was 5th gear that did a test of fuels and they used a standard scooby wrx, the difference between the 95ron and the higher octane, can't remember if it was optimax or v-power, think it was optimax, was about 30bhp!!!
that was on a standard wrx!!

Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: ] #516972
09/01/2008 02:30
09/01/2008 02:30
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,293
Sandhurst
Begbie Offline
Ex El Presidente
Begbie  Offline
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I AM a Coop

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,293
Sandhurst
but as in my other post below, the impreza has an ecu that can adapt to the different fuel. The 16vt and 20vt's can not do this!!


Originally Posted by Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: ] #516973
09/01/2008 02:31
09/01/2008 02:31

J
joel
Unregistered
joel
Unregistered
J



ash

i was expecting slightly better spool & slightly better top end from the ultraspool, but i have no complaints how it drives on the rd, it just pulls & pulls & is very smooth.

if you look on my graph, the temps were quite high on my run,i'm going for another rr soon & i think i will hit over 300bhp.

good luck with your rr session,are you just having a power run, or being mapped?
look forward to seeing your results

Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: Begbie] #517037
09/01/2008 03:23
09/01/2008 03:23

W
warnysouth
Unregistered
warnysouth
Unregistered
W



 Originally Posted By: Begbie
but as in my other post below, the impreza has an ecu that can adapt to the different fuel. The 16vt and 20vt's can not do this!!


Yes, but the ECU can select whether to retard the ignition or not depending on whether the knock sensor is triggered. So in my case, with the gtech 1, the ECU *might* be pulling the timing back as its too aggressive for this fuel. If I switch to 99 RON, it might not retard it so much, and then I got more power no?

Is the GTECH 1 only a modified fuel table or does it have a modified ignition table too?

Thanks

W

Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: ] #517057
09/01/2008 03:36
09/01/2008 03:36
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,293
Sandhurst
Begbie Offline
Ex El Presidente
Begbie  Offline
Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,293
Sandhurst
The Gtec 1 is designed to run on the std ignition and run on 95RON, so putting in 99RON and running a Gtec 1 is not going to yield you any more power.

The knock system works but detecting knock / pink and will retard the timing by X degrees for X amount of engine revolutions, then it will go back to the orignal ignition advance and carry on as normal, until it detects knock / pink again and repeats the above process.


Originally Posted by Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: Begbie] #517063
09/01/2008 03:39
09/01/2008 03:39

W
warnysouth
Unregistered
warnysouth
Unregistered
W



OK thanks Begbie. So that's it then, 220bhp is my lot for this boost pressure (thats another thing - I wish they had given me a boost graph - maybe the 16psi on my gauge is only 15psi - that would lose me a few horses no?). In Austin's case he might get more when he sorts his lean mixture out though correct?

Cheers

W

Last edited by warnysouth; 09/01/2008 03:40.
Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: ] #517067
09/01/2008 03:39
09/01/2008 03:39
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 787
Midlands
ash_p Offline
Club member 2001
ash_p  Offline
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Enjoying the ride

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 787
Midlands
Yeh joel it looked like it was hot there 25 degrees. I am sure now its been running like it for a while and colder conditions it will get over 300 easy.

I am just going for a power run and a fueling check. But hoping for anything around 270 for now, until its live mapped.

Ash


[Linked Image]
335bhp gt28rsr
Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: ash_p] #517068
09/01/2008 03:40
09/01/2008 03:40

W
warnysouth
Unregistered
warnysouth
Unregistered
W



Oi! Stop Hijacking my thread! \:\)

Re: Perfect Touch Results (Inc Graphs) [Re: ] #517097
09/01/2008 03:57
09/01/2008 03:57
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 787
Midlands
ash_p Offline
Club member 2001
ash_p  Offline
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Enjoying the ride

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 787
Midlands
Haha sorry, it is about tuning though \:\)

Ash


[Linked Image]
335bhp gt28rsr
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