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Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspension #83318
29/03/2006 02:48
29/03/2006 02:48

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Probably about time I should give some feedback on the Bilsteins. Before that a few notes on the long journey of suspension configurations that Ive tried so far:

1/
Setup: Standard springs and shocks
Ride: Crashy over rough ground, nice controlled ride over smooth high speed roads
Handling: Lots of understeer pushing on and moderate body roll.

2/
Setup: KYB Gas Adjust rear shocks, standard springs, standard front shocks
Ride: Awful, Even more crashy & choppy ride. Horrible to drive on B roads at speed. Too much compression damping for the light rear of the Coop.
Handling: Much less understeer. Good rear body control

3/
Setup: FK Highsport Coilovers 80N/mm front springs
Ride: More compliant than 2) but underdamped feeling from front on large road undulations. Copes well with low speed bumps but not very reassuring on fast uneven roads.
Handling: Much better than standard. Far reduced body roll negative camber helps turn in

4/
Setup: FK Konigsport (Koni shocks) Coilovers 80N/mm front springs
Ride: Bloody hard even on soft setting. As with 3), problems with underdamping despite increasing front damping rates

5/
Setup: FK Konigsport (Koni shocks) Coilovers 100N/mm front springs
Ride: Even harder than 4). Problems with underdamping largely resolved but the ride is very poor over rough ground with small bumps upsetting the balance and direction of the car. Rear of the car is rock hard and upsets passengers.
Handling: Best yet. The Konis are superb at holding body roll in check. Very neutral front/ rear balance, much easier to get power down in corners.

6/ Setup: As 5) but with rear shocks swapped for KYB Excel G's
Ride: Better than 5) but still awful over rough roads. At this point I'd had enough of Coilovers and decided they were only for the track.
Handling: Not much different to 5)

7/
Setup: Back to standard but with KYB Excel G's rears.
Ride: Blessed relief after the coilovers but the standard ride height looks tragic after the sexy lowered look. You get used to it. Overall better than 1) The rear KYB's are slightly stiffer than standard and control the car well. Ride can stil be choppy but only on the worst roads.

8/
And finally:

Setup: Bilstein B6 Sports shocks/ Standard springs
Ride: Very compliant. Its a bit like someone has put 3"'s of rubber between the road and and your tyres. Small bumps are just driven through. Overall, the ride almost feels softer than standard until you hit larger undulations then you feel the stronger dampers doing their work.
Handling: The softer feel makes you think its going to roll, but when you push on, it grips, then grips some more, really progressive. Obviously more body roll than the coilover setups but you can feel what you are doing and your limits rather than worrying that the front is suddenly going to break traction.

Verdict: Overall Im pleased with what Ive seen so far. There is no doubt that the Bilsteins try to cover all bases and when used with standard springs are a triumph of compromise between ride and handling. I think its likely that those who are used to a real stiff sporty ride wont like this setup as its some way off the more go kart feel of coilovers. For those making the transition from the standard setup, you will love them as they handle better and the ride quality is far superior. It sort of gives the Coop an air of a German quality saloon.

For me personally, I loved the handling of the FK's but couldnt stomach the appalling ride. The Bilsteins with standard springs solve the ride issue but the handling will never be in the same league. As long as you realise this you cant go too far wrong.

It really comes down how you use your car and what you are looking to get out of it.

My curiosity is raging now and my next step is to play around with some lowering springs with the Bilsteins to regain the smooth lowered look and maybe just add a touch more stiffness as I think the superior ride of the Bilsteins will overcome some of the increase in spring rate.

Anyway, apologies for the long post, hopefully it will be useful for those currently reviewing their suspension options.

Last edited by cosmograph; 29/03/2006 03:40.
Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspension #83319
29/03/2006 03:22
29/03/2006 03:22

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Nice write up there, Rob, thanks for the hard work.

Really looking forward to receiving my Bilsteins now, I'll be fitting them with Pi -35mm lowering springs from Paul_H in time for the Brands Hatch trackday on April 18th

I'm going straight from standard, though, so I won't be able to give nearly as much of an experienced view on how it all performs, though

Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspen #83320
29/03/2006 03:32
29/03/2006 03:32
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Make no apologies, great post and convinces me that the billys are the way to go to maintain comfort. They should last far longer than standard too.

John

Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspension #83321
29/03/2006 03:36
29/03/2006 03:36

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Great reviews there Cosmo, I'm sure your post will be extremely useful to a lot of owners on here, myself included.

Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspension #83322
29/03/2006 03:42
29/03/2006 03:42

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Thanks Chaps,

Richard, let me know how you get on with the PI's. We should be ready courier on Thursday so you'll have them on Friday. Will confirm later. Dont forget to get your tracking done.

Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspension #83323
29/03/2006 03:46
29/03/2006 03:46
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Thanks Cosmo, a really informative post.
Cheers,


Enjoying Coop ownership, second time round . Also enjoying RWD action in a thundering V8 E90 M3.
Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspension #83324
29/03/2006 05:57
29/03/2006 05:57

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thanks for the review cosmo.

Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspension #83325
29/03/2006 06:40
29/03/2006 06:40

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Glad folks are beginning to see the light

The Bilsteins are cracking shocks and they are expensive for a reason!

Not too bad for day to day driving, but also very good on the track when combined with Eibach springs. Add a strutbrace and you have an alround very good set up.

Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspension #83326
29/03/2006 14:03
29/03/2006 14:03

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Quote:

Dont forget to get your tracking done.




Rob, I had laser 4-wheel tracking done couple of weeks ago, so I'd need to do it again after suspension fitted too?

Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspension #83327
29/03/2006 14:07
29/03/2006 14:07
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Quote:

Quote:

Dont forget to get your tracking done.




Rob, I had laser 4-wheel tracking done couple of weeks ago, so I'd need to do it again after suspension fitted too?




Yep, any suspension components that gets changed should have tracking done afterwards


Originally Posted by Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspension #83328
29/03/2006 14:08
29/03/2006 14:08

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If you are fitting lowering springs with them, you will change your camber slightly which will throw your tracking out a bit.

Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspension #83329
29/03/2006 14:14
29/03/2006 14:14

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Good review Cosmo, wish I'd bought Billies the first time round. Will later (April/May) fit some front billies and keep my Ultra SR KYB rears, (which are very hard but still feel ok). I'll be running standard springs as well. Will then look to fit Barbz uprated front rollbar, (I know this will increase understeer on tight corners on a track, but on the road it should be fine ).

Chris

Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspension #83330
29/03/2006 14:37
29/03/2006 14:37

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I will probably go this route as well. Was thinking of bilsteins + 16vt eibach springs on the front (have them lying around anyway and according to Jimbo these are better?) and bilsteins + eibach springs on the rear. The KYB setup I have now is pretty good, but it's a tad too hard for my taste and the front sometimes feels a bit uncontrolled.

Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspen #83331
29/03/2006 15:16
29/03/2006 15:16

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great review, thanks, would be interesting to know how you get on with lowering springs on this setup

Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspen #83332
30/03/2006 19:34
30/03/2006 19:34

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Useful comparisions for the benefit of all, nice one Cosmo..

I have had Eibach springs for quite some time, and earlier this year got the Bilsteins.. will never ever go back to standard or coilovers. I love this setup and have never yet lost grip around corners. I am getting 80+mph around tight country roads, whereas max before was about 70ish' but my sole reason for upgrade was road comfort which it delivered in spades.

Very happy indeed

Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspen #83333
07/04/2006 03:29
07/04/2006 03:29

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Anyone know how much a set of Einbachs cost roughly?

Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspen #83334
07/04/2006 03:45
07/04/2006 03:45
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Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspension #83335
07/04/2006 05:04
07/04/2006 05:04

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Great review there Cosmo

The increase in body roll does help give you warning of the limits.

I find that with the uprated anti roll bars, that the Coupe corners so flat that you are inclined to enter corners at suicidal speeds, but the front does not give you that nice progressive feel as to where the limits are.

Joe

Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspension #83336
07/04/2006 05:55
07/04/2006 05:55
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Dr Frag,I found that out tonight, I just kept pushing and pushing, it stays soooo flat now,and the understeer has almost gone ,I`m kinda scared to find the limit,just incase it`s a total let go job,if you know what i mean,you can also get the power on far earlier too with the inside front wheel having more contact,and less understeer to fight off.
I had the front anti roll bar fitted last year.and it felt well........ok.but fitting the rear has made it ,one of those mods you do and straightaway you know it was worth it...........I wonder how it would feel with the uprated rear arb and standard front arb ?


was Paul S,now just paul...Member since Oct 2000,Coupe may be FATALLY injured - :(oh no it's not smile
Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspension #83337
07/04/2006 11:43
07/04/2006 11:43

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Hi Paul, yes the rear ARB is worth its weight in gold

I also find there's just virtually no roll , its great for giving you confidence, and also great for high speed stabilty, none of that 'light feeling' at the front when pushing beyond 130-140mph around a bend.

But, front end breakaway is not as smooth, and I find that my brain used to rely on the 'roll' to gauge the cornering speed and to how much I could push it, without the roll, I know just have the feel through the steering. Its not as though its sudden, but the limits are higher, then they go off more rapidly. I think the main reason the cornering speeds seem higher, is less to do with the amount of grip, but due to the extra body stability the ARBS's bring.


Glad to hear, you're still a crazy horse!!

Joe

Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspension #83338
07/04/2006 17:57
07/04/2006 17:57

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Perhaps someone can advise me as well on the suspension subject.

I'm currently running KYB's front and rear and have eibach springs on the back and std ones on the front. Reason for this is that the front KYB's already sit lower (the dish where the springs rest on are lower). So all in all it's nice and level now.

However, I'm not overly happy with the current setup. I'm probably a pussy, but I think it's too harsh! I'm looking for a bit more comfort while retaining the better handling and turn-in. My idea is to sell the KYB's and get bilsteins all around. I have to change the springs on the front as well to keep the ride height the same as it is now. I've got a set of 16vt front eibachs lying around. I'm pretty sure I've read here that they work fine on a 20vt, the only difference being the spring coils and the 16vt eibach springs are slightly longer? Can someone help me on this?

Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspension #83339
07/04/2006 18:06
07/04/2006 18:06

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I currently have Barbz KYB setup, but will later this month change the front shocks for Bilstein but keep the rear KYB Ultra SR's. I'm now stuck trying to decide whether to go for eibachs as well @ £160ish, (like the reduced ride height but want reasonable ride quality), or to spend the money on Barbz' uprated front rollbar for £200ish, (less front roll and maintain ride quality, but much more understeer?) Not sure I can stump up the cash for the Eibach front/rear roll bar set, (if I can find a set) plus fitting

Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspension #83340
07/04/2006 18:17
07/04/2006 18:17

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Jurgen - On a side note I have had vibration through my front steering at 75mph+ since fitting the KYB's.

Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspension #83341
07/04/2006 18:23
07/04/2006 18:23

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Actually I have thought about the dampers being part of the problem, but I just don't think that's it. I actually bought the KYB's as a possible solution for my problem back then. I do think they might make it worse, but it's not the cause.

Anyway, wouldn't it be wiser for you to change both front and rear KYB's for bilsteins? The KYB rears are the main cause of the harsh ride. Unless you don't have a problem with that obvioulsy. But you might be able to sell the KYB's as a set, whereas it would be hard to just sell the front dampers!

Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspension #83342
07/04/2006 18:37
07/04/2006 18:37

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I don't mind the stiff rear, kind of used to it now, (but I'm still running standard springs). Its the bouncy soft front I don't like that rolls and dives too much under braking, (I still reckon they are softer than the standard front shocks). My vibration does not sound as bad as yours, you can see it in the steering wheel but when grip hold it does not continue to your hands arms etc. Might not be the shocks that have caused it but I only noticed it after fitting them.

Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspension #83343
08/04/2006 15:43
08/04/2006 15:43
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I had my fist instance of Coupe power oversteer. Big roundabout, powering round it, back end decided that following the front was boring, so decided to go its own way.

Not a big moment, and it was very controllable, but up to that point, the front end was firmly planted. It really did feel like a RWD car. Possibly time to drop the rear tyre pressures a little.

As the good doctor mentions above, the rear ARB is a mod that you instantly know was money well spent.

As for it only being of use on track - I disagree - my daily commute is now far more fun (admittedly includes a good few miles of twisty B road)

Out of the MANY mods I've done, I would rate this as in the top five on the "improvement per £" scale.


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Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspension #83344
08/04/2006 17:08
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this is the Eibach rear ARB ?

does fitting it require the fuel tank to be removed ?

thanks.

Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspension #83345
10/04/2006 02:14
10/04/2006 02:14
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Quote:

I'm currently running KYB's front and rear and have eibach springs on the back and std ones on the front. Reason for this is that the front KYB's already sit lower (the dish where the springs rest on are lower). So all in all it's nice and level now.

However, I'm not overly happy with the current setup. I'm probably a pussy, but I think it's too harsh! I'm looking for a bit more comfort while retaining the better handling and turn-in.




Jurgen, I have the same set-up as you and considering the Bilstein/Eibach setup for exactly the same reason also.


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Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspension #83346
10/04/2006 18:56
10/04/2006 18:56
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Sandhurst
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Quote:

this is the Eibach rear ARB ?

does fitting it require the fuel tank to be removed ?

thanks.




Yes it does, or at least dropped quite a bit


Originally Posted by Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
Re: Bilstein Review and lots of thoughts on suspension #83347
13/04/2006 18:48
13/04/2006 18:48

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Right, just had my Bilsteins (thanks Cosmo) and -35mm OMP springs (thanks Paul_H) fitted.

Only done about 20miles before my laser tracking so just quick impression here. I've gone straight from the 61,000 mile standard suspension.

Handling , obviously, much improved. Stiffer (although not tooo stiff), much less roll, no see-sawing going up and down the gears.
Just goes round tight corners with no fuss - I tested on a few roundabouts, not had a chance for B-road stuff yet.


Looks dropped just the right amount and looks level from front to rear. Looks right - not OTT at all. Just hope I don't have any problems tonight getting onto my driveway :touchwood:

Ride Yes better than standard, definately
With the stiffness of the springs you do feel bumps and imperfections on crap roads, through the steering wheel, but you don't hear them like on the old set-up, if you see what I mean. No crashing about, the Billy's just soak it up. Pot-holes and drain covers don't upset the car like they used to.


In a word. Supple. I like.

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