Hi all,

I want to ask if somebody knows how much boost, the stock 16vT headgasket can handle (without failure)?

Now I am running 1,35 bar peak and 1.2 hold boost (1.15 bar from 6000rpm to 7000rpm). The car is remapped (live mapping on the road). AFR is OK 11.3-11.7 when on boost.

My specs are :
- turbo Garrett T3 Super 60 + FMIC
- 3" downpipe + 3" straight exhaust
- 440cc Bosch green injectors + 3.3 bar FPR + walbro 255 + wiring mod
- Kappa Inlet Manifold
- N/A cams
- SIP + HKS mushroom filter
- Colder plugs

I am thinking about increasing the boost up to 1.5 bar peak, 1.3 bar hold to the redline but I am not sure if the stock headgasket will survive these boost levels? Ofcourse the car will be remapped again so that the AFR will be correct after the increased boost.

After that the car will be dynoed. What do you think how many hp (engine) I should expect with :

- 1.35 peak and 1.15 bar hold boost
- 1.5 peak and 1.3 bar hold boost

Wouldn't bother upping boost... Your super 60 is prob making asmuch power your engine spec is capable of.... Your prob running around 280/280 bhp and torques at mo......
Your next step (mod) for me should be T34.48 turbo, with the same boost your running now you would see 310-320 bhp,...

In answer to your question anyways, I don't think it would be recommended to push stock head gasket to 1.5 bar!

Nick

If your engine is properly mapped, you will have no problem with head gasket, ever
But head bolts, that could be problem..

Friend driving @ 2.5 bar with gtx35 (with diesel head bolts) and never had a single problem with head gasket

the cometic head gasket is kinda cheap, if you put this money for car why no pay a little more? about 120+/- USD and you done

anyway im +/- same spec as you
my mod:
630cc siemnse deka injectors
cometic 1.3mm head gasket
turbonetics T3/T4 AR.48 turbo
Front mount intercooler
Lancia thema N/A inlet camshaft
3bar fuel pressure regulator
Walbro 255L + wire mode

i will order map from KJ16 soon
and i estimate to get about 320+/- HP with 1.35bar boost

td0516g, twin scroll from Evo6
Forge dual port turbo actuator
Forge recirc dumpvalve
Evo 6 IC
630 Siemens
Kappa inlet
3 bar FP
3 bar Map sensor
MSD High output Coils and leads
B8eg sparkplugs
3" downpipe and cat eliminator
Boost controller for dual port actuator
Supersprint exhaust
Stock very very good engine with 70000 miles

Flea map and 1,7 bar

Assembling as we speak
Probbably forgot something

Should spool super fast that spec!!
Make sure you post up your graphs ASAP!
Hoping to get mine re-mapped before end August, just finishing installing gt2871/3071 hybrib along with turbo smart external waste gate... Should make a nice noise hopefully!

Probbably getting dyno time in september (working one month on/off) so will do then:)

I'm sure you said that last year

i use external tial 38mm with open air scream pipe

every time i kick down gas peddal i wake up all the city!!! yaamm

Im going ultra stealth.. Supersprint rear exhaust ,recirc dump, stock 16" wheels (with some ultra sticky rubbers:) going use it most for shows/trackdays and the odd sunday., maby 3000 miles a year, 99% of the cars here are 2l 16v so everyone will think it has 155bhp. Wich will be fun on the trackdays

yea cool thinking
the 1 thing i cant understand is how funny look 16" on the coupe, its lock's too small.
but i like the 20VT rims, looks alot better then the oem 16vt

i switched to light whight Lenso 17" and the car feel's alot quicker then before P:

anyway. you running stock engine? no head gasket? no pistons etc?

Done some good 16vt tuning recently, home grown and all and around the world! Looking forward to seeing what we can do with these new set-ups.

Yes completely stock, but keep in mind the engine has done 70000 miles, it had a timing belt failure at 55000 where rods and main bearings where inspected/changed, pistons and rings where changed and the head overhauled. Im running a evo 6 manifold and turbo so backpressure and exhaust temp is WAY less than stock, im uppgrading all the "boring" things like coils, leads, turbo actuator, boost cotroller, boost solenoid, vacuum hoses and so on. Just to be sure everything is top notch. Im taking it straight to a dyno, logging all parameters, so flea can give it the final touch.
AND if it disintergrates it self i have an excuse to.........

So, to answer your question digital lundegård? (Er det riktig?):)
The maximum boost it can handle is equal to the boost that will kill the engine minus a smidge wich sums up tuning quite well me thinx

digitalundgrd = digital underground

1.7 bar is very promising SO 1.3 bar is for the "kindergarten"

However now in Bulgaria is a bit hot (32 C) and definitely not the right time for increasing the boost Maybe after August...

At the moment I'm upgrading the brakes, because stock 284mm mtec discs and EBC redstuff were not up to the job.
My new set up is Lancia Kappa 20vt 4 pot brembo with 305mm discs

http://s30.postimg.org/e5ehydiq9/52565395_1_800x600.jpg

does the kappa calipers fit plug and play? or need modify?

They need custom brackets. They are not plug and play.

[quote=digitalundgrd]digitalundgrd = digital underground

1.7 bar is very promising SO 1.3 bar is for the "kindergarten"

However now in Bulgaria is a bit hot (32 C) and definitely not the right time for increasing the boost Maybe after August...

Its all down to your turbo really, at what boost/flow does the efficiency fall so much that it just blows hot air? The evo6 turbo hits this spot at 1,6-1,7 bar and 350-390hp a gtx5518 can do 3,5 to 4 bar with 1200hp With the same efficiency. Turn your boost up and get it tuned while its hot outside not sure where the limit is on the super60 but im sure flea or someone will be telling you shortly

Nick_d got it spot on at the top of the page: 280-300 bhp at 1.4 bar will max out a super-60 on a 16VT. 1.7 bar on an essentially stock 16VT engine will result in more torque - just before crack the No.3 piston ringland!

Don't fixate on just running as much boost possible. More boost doesn't always mean more power. Besides, good tuning is about making more power with less boost - THEN we turn the boost up!

I guess your saying 1,4 is the most the s60 will do up top and will only manage 1,7 in the midrange? Or are you saying that 1,7 bar will crack ringlands regardless of turbo, manifold and such on a stock engine?

It will depend on set-up, but the standard engine is certainly strong. I have taken these up to 1.7bar on occasion.

The Super60 will loose efficiency very quickly at higher rpms, but ok if you are looking for some big mid-range.

I know, just wasnt sure what kj ment about ringlands on 1,7bar . Im more afraid of exhaust temps and unexpected lean outs than boost it self.. As long as everything is top notch and in good shape i dont worry. Problem with theese cars is that they are 20 years old and if a guy wrings out 1,4 bar on a 60 trim and breaks a piston at only 250hp because of a 20 year old injector that sticks on the odd occasion leaning out that cyliinder suddenly half of the camp says that everything above 250hp will kill a stock engine. The other half is sure that more than 1,4 bar will do it. There are tons of things that can give up after 20 years and 150000 miles pluss.
Keep everything important like sensors, injectors etc new or as good as new keep exhaust temps a hair on the safe side get a good good tune and i think we could all be pretty shocked over what it would take..
Really makes me want to get hold of a boxnew engine and strap a GTX3576 to the side of it...

About the ringlands...

One of my friends has PUNTO GT 1.4t with the following set up:

-stock con rods and pistons
-FMIC
-boost 1.6-1.7 bar
-a little bit bigger turbo than standart
-custom exhaust manifold
-63mm downpipe and exhaust
-piper cam
-walbro 255 + wiring mod + 315cc injectors + colder plugs
-Motul 20w60 LeMans oil
-livemapped and dynoed (200hp)

And this happened to the pistons after 1000 miles:

http://s13.postimg.org/t3oxd5xjb/WP_20140224_15_50_05_Pro.jpg

http://s29.postimg.org/q54nq9qqf/WP_20140224_15_50_32_Pro.jpg

http://s24.postimg.org/81altb11x/WP_20140224_15_50_43_Pro.jpg

Yep, that's what I'm talking about (assuming it wasn't det that killed those ring lands above)

Maybe it's better to talk of torque instead of boost when talking about pistons. Afterall, it's not the boost per se that kills ring lands it's the heat and cylinder pressure (and the resultant torque) - and a stock 16VT engine on stock cams produces a lot of both for amount of horsepower it produces. Basically the stock cams are set up for torque over power. Stock pistons are comparatively brittle and crack with too much cylinder pressure. While forged pistons, in comparison, are tough (in the engineering sense of the word) and would just expand under the same conditions.

Over the years, I've gone through so many 16VT engine and turbo setups I can barely remember them all. I do remember with one particular setup I made 333 lbsft with just 1.3 bar *yep that's right, 1.3 bar*. Now that definitely killed the stock pistons!

So, yes, I'd say it is more accurate to talk of torque instead of boost. So in my professional opinion I'd say it's best to keep torque on an engine with stock pistons definitely below 330 lbsft and probably 300 lbsft max for safety. And if you get your setup right in the first place you won't need 1.7 bar to get there

Yep totally agree
Im probbably in for a hell of a suprise torquewise
Anyway, interresting to see what it will do, probbably superfast spool and good driveable power. Flying off to pick up a Dedra Integrale Friday so we all know where this is going (oh my ) im pretty sure it has the new engineblock with frontmount oilpump but no balanceshafts.. So good prospect for some forged TLC next winter

I've increased the boost a little bit. Everything is fine at the moment. The car feels more powerful (still not dynoed).



This is the final result:

http://photos-f.ak.instagram.com/hphotos-ak-xpa1/10520272_1656897781201125_1184453360_n.jpg

http://photos-e.ak.instagram.com/hphotos-ak-xfp1/10471813_723397224393860_1410001944_n.jpg

The stopping power is incredible. I've never had better brakes! And everything (calipers, new pads and discs, brackets) cost me 215 Euro I'm a happy bunny...

ahh!!!
paint them to orange/yellow
will brake the grey/black look

anyway look's great! i wish in israel this parts was easy to get; italian car is rare here XD