I've realised how sanitised the Forum has become.

Despite the Israel/Hamas, James Foley butchering and the Iraq ISIS issues, not a single post has been made. Is this an indication that we won't discuss a contentious issue, or that the current membership either do not watch/read the news, or don't have an opinion of what they have seen or heard?

It wouldn't be too difficult for the old timers to guess my views, so I'll let that go. Or am I therefor contributing to the sanitisation?

20 views, no comments. I rest my case.

So here we go in the absence of interest
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1. Hamas are getting what they deserve, if the Palestinians support them, by default so are they getting what they deserve.

2. James Foley - remove British Citizenship from anyone involved in extremist activities. And lets stop whining when the Yanks get them. If this [cloud9] ends up on the end of a needle in the US, then fine, although my preferred option of being fed alive to the pigs may upset a few.

3. The whole current Iraq issue is the Coalition/BLAIR's fault. Extremists went nowhere near Iraq when Saddam was in charge (told to me by a senior officer in Kuwait). We need to resolve this, which goes against all my "don't get involved" politics.

Yes, it is a bit stale.
Maybe in the summer we're all too busy and it's the winter months when we are at our most argumentative? Either that or the bannings have done their job and now we just conform.

Rk I totally agree with all 3 points.

There is a great chnace of civil unrest in the UK from this, especially where there is a high concentration of Muslims. Every other car I see in Bradford has a free Palestine or similar logo, we are seeing protests and it will get worse.

I believe we should ban flights to any stan or known country where sympathy lies, there is a massive threat when the many brain washed idiots return, we are at risk and easy targets.

Right - I'll stir it up.

Just so you know where I'm coming from: most of my wife's older relatives died in either Dachau or Auschwitz; her mother was a lucky one who managed to get on the kindertransport to the UK. My kids' real father, and their brother, live in Eilat.

So let me start by saying that I think Israel is a state founded upon terrorism and maintained after a series of disastrous policy decisions in the last sixty years; it is de facto racist and at present it is effectively in a position of apartheid with respect to the Palestinians.

My sympathies are almost entirely with the Palestinian people. But they shot themselves in their collective foot when they idiotically elected Hamas - an organisation defined as terrorist by most of the Western states and with whom those states are by statute forbidden to talk to. So no negotiation there, then. Yet Hamas prove themselves incapable of managing a country: they govern by fear and corruption; they rule in a military state worse than Mubarak's Egypt ever was. Instead of providing infrastructure for Gaza, they smuggle in concrete to build tunnels into Egypt; instead of food, medicine, technical knowledge, they buy guns and explosives. The generate funding by protection rackets and kidnapping.

However, both sides are at the mercy of religious fundamentalist hotheads who would rather die than see someone else's version of an invisible sky fairy being given any credence. I would argue that the vast majority of people in both countries have no truck with the policies of the ruling powers - the actions of the likes of Hamas are done by force and hostility against the people they claim to represent, and the Israeli army is a conscript one.

The problem in the middle east is probably insoluble. One might argue that the Egyptians should open the border to Palestine - remember, Israel is not the only side building a wall - but the last time they did that they were damn near overrun.

The Israelis will not allow any solution in which Hamas has any power - and particularly, and arms - while Hamas has an avowed policy to destroy Israel completely. At the same time, Israel has a policy of clearing land already owned for generations by Palestinians and building settlements there - which they then need to build barricades around. Hamas launch rockets at random civilian targets in Israel; Israel launches rockets aimed at Hamas leaders but more often get their family instead.

There is no common ground. I sometimes wonder if things would be simpler if they just took the thousand leading members of each group and dumped them naked in the middle of the Negev desert, winner takes all.

Bah. It's all down to stone age thinking and the unsanity of religion. It must be right because our ancestors a thousand years - or five thousand years - ago wrote it in a book or on a scroll or carved it into a stone tablet, so it must be true today.

Integration is the only solution, but it ain't going happen in the next fifty or a hundred years.

And it ain't going happen while people continue to think stone age style - and by that I mean us as well as them: we continue to make the mistake of assuming that when someone claims membership of a group and acts in a certain way, his acts are representative of that group as a whole. Any act is and always is the responsibility of the individual performing it. Not his priest, rabbi, or iman; not his military commander, town mayor, or state government. Himself.

But so few people realise that...

I agree with most of what you say, Neil, less of your view, RK.

But we all knew that anyway!

Hot debates on the forum are fewer and further between these days, but I think it's more down to long-standing members finding it harder to justify time spent on a forum they can barely remember the reason for joining, having sold their Fiat Coupé many moons ago and moving on rather than "sanitisation" by bans, etc. From what I've seen, the majority of bans come about as a result of dubious sales practices, not radical views. Newer members, although some of them are superb contributors, are most likely initially to come here because of the car, not the debate. And as numbers of coupés dwindle, so will new membership (I'm guessing here).

We old cantankerous ones know each other's views reasonably well, so perhaps the debate stalls before it gets going.

We do occasionally have a spat, but it's tedious if it's contrived, so genuine argument is rarer.

Religion - what's the point?

Nuff said

The forum has become rather quiet at late, not sure if it is a summer holiday thing or not? but now the quest for speed and power seems to of dwindled there dont seem to be a lot going on other than sales and breakdown advise!

Regarding the Palestinians i have always felt they were getting the raw deal with American supported Israel continuing to take more land and impose draconian conditions, can you really have a country separated by another? and wonder where its all going wrong?
I am unsure of the whole history here but didnt Israel just think this looks a nice place we will live here and then take over?? apologies for my ignorance i really dont know! but if so isnt that similar to IS wanting to create a Islamic State??

Regarding IS I do agree that we should never of medalled with the whole middle east thing Iraq Afganastan etc. all that has done is divert the attention away from there own Problems and feuding and directed it at us "the western World" or mainly US and the UK the other countries dont seem to suffer the same attacks if i recall

Its shocking what people are willing to do to one another regardless of race/ religion etc.
The killing of James Foley is appalling no matter who has carried it out but is rather disturbing to thing of it as somebody, any of us could of sat next to in an infant junior or senior school!

The whole IS thing needs to be sorted, but you get rid of one group another will take its place

The other big problem we face in the western world is propaganda!! and i mean we are only told what the government wants us to know and the papers are always sensationalising everything

I cannot believe that any "god" that created such a beutifull planet etc. would want to destroy it! hence I don't believe in a god at all but something else probably just my conscience as that seems to tell me what's right and wrong!

We are all brainwashed with religion from birth! as though we need it to make us "good" people! we certainly don'T

The west needs to stop meddling in things that dont concern us but as fellow human beings can we really turn our backs on others that are being murdered on a daily basis such as the Curds by Saddam? its a very difficult question to answer but is probably a consequence of technology and knowing everything that's going on around the world. so with the internet we have sort of created a monster a bit like opening Pandora's box....where have i heard that from

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

And turning the other cheek gets half the world a sore face!

I know which I'd prefer though...!

Says Fiat Coupe Forum at the top, that's what I come here to discuss

2nd that !

And on the 3rd day, A higher being may or may not have created the Fiat Coupe.

Argue with that one !

Personally I've thought the forum has been changing for some time now as I've pointed out before. Obviously it's healthy that some will have their own views & opinions, but if you don't agree with certain members you tend to get shot down in flames.

I used to be on here quite a lot in my early days & the craic & the banter was very good & generally light hearted, but sadly testosterone filled discussions can & do become a slanging match or worse.

Anyone that's caught up in my views will realise I can be very opinionated indeed. I will choose to play now & again but only when I see fit.

As for the middle east & it's problems well, there has always been trouble for centuries. Takeover after takeover by different clans people. Today is only a modern take.

You can look into this in detail over the many years & pick the bones to death so to speak....bottom line money/power. rightly or wrongly the white man has been poking his nose in this part of the world for financial gain as well.

Oil, black gold, Texas tea.....sorry bit carried away there One things for sure, things do not look like they will be getting any better soon.

Like others above I'm really only here to discuss the Fiat Coupe & other car related stuff. I much prefer to discuss political issues face to face with people and do so regularly at home, at work and at the pub, where people are much more reasoned and reasonable and far less likely to make deliberately provocative or inflammatory remarks.

I would ban all political threads on a Car Forum.

I think a few factors have created the quiet forum we see today. The forum was, in my opinion over moderated and anyone who was in the slightest part controversial has been banned so who's remaining to make those controversial threads that we all loved to read.
A large percentage of the old coupe owners/forum regulars have moved on to other cars and their associated forums (although some of us still visit here on a daily basis) so don't get involved or feel as passionate about the forum.

The days of people spending £10k on quest for speed are gone, a coupe is like your Granny, you want to care for her, treat her kindly and deal with her medical complaints not put her in a pair of Nike's, giving her a can of Red Bull and drop her off at the London Marathon start line.

As for the political side:

I think Iraq as we knew it is finished, IS can't be removed unless the whole process of the war in Iraq starts again and I can't see it happening, it's no longer just Iraq, it's the whole region which is affected.

I also think America needs to stop funding Israel's military. It's mighty quick in imposing sanctions on other countries who act with aggression!

Very probably, but if we get onto the subject of how Israel is effectively controlling the US we are going to get banned for anti-semitism. I have to admit that I don't feel free to air certain of my views on this forum.

Social media is another reason forums decline.

Forums are good for accessing archived information etc but the fluid conversation and volume is suited to social media.

I have seen a similar trend in a forum I admin.

A key difference is the quality. Social media has higher volumes and anyone will wade into a debate, often resulting in bad advice

Hi guys n gals... im not trying to do the whole point the finger but if you want to knw why the forum is as stale as my underwear then look no further than the super up tight moderation from the moderators...
hell people, including myself were getting private messages from mods saying that this forum REQUIRES proper grammar, full stops ect ect and if I couldn't do this then maybe this forum isnt for you!!!

Now if thats not wayyyy over the top I don't knw what is, one of the main, reasons I hardly use this place which is such a shame as tjthe passion I have for our coupe is unrivalled!! But alas im not the best at queens english being brought up in inner Birmingham! Lol

so if your reading this moderators then please lighten up a bit!!

Hi mr_cheese, thanks for joining in; I think this a good example of not being able to please all of the people, all of the time! The aim of trying to maintain a reasonable standard of spelling and grammar really isn't to persecute people, it is to try and ensure that the forum is comprehensible to the maximum number of people, including those for whom English is not their first language. It can be difficult to tell the difference between someone who genuinely struggles to express themselves and someone who can't be bothered to think about what they are saying to make it easier (or even possible) to understand. It therefore makes sense to use a few rules and as these already exist outside the forum, why not use them here?
Rudidudi above makes a good case for social media taking over the more conversational role, but I don't think this thread is about the way you express your views as much as the ideas contained in them.
From a purely personal point of view, I'd prefer to engage in well-argued debate than a barely comprehensible series of posts that overuse exclamation marks and the word "mate".
(see, I lightened up...)

As an aside - although grammar is generally considered to be descriptive (i.e. it describes how the language is used) rather than prescriptive (instruction how it must be used) I think it's important that members are encouraged to try and use 'proper' English for two reasons.

The first is simple courtesy: we have many forum members whose first language is not English; clarity and simplicity in language helps them parse what they read and the incorrect use of, for example, the possessive asterisk, choice of homonyms (e.g. your/you're) and mispellings in general can make it difficult or impossible for them to understand some comments. It also breaks Internet automatic translators.

The second is self interest. Like it or not, if you are asking a question, or even replying to one, and your answer appears to be careless, slapdash, hurried - and like it or not, poor writing gives that impression whether it is true or not - then people are less likely to respond or to take notice of your post. A detailed answer to a technical question might take half an hour or more to research, locate images, and check the post for errors - if it doesn't look like the original poster is making an effort, why should a responder?

Let me state for the record: no one has ever been excluded from this forum for poor use of English, though to be fair some have felt that the forum was not to their taste because of this emphasis. Indeed, a poster is more likely to be banned for *mocking* the grammar of another poster (you will see it occasionally but only between a very few posters who know each other well and play word games with each other!).

In the forum rules to which everybody agrees before first using this forum you are asked not to use text speak - the extreme abbreviations such as 'u' and 'your'; this is something which will get the attention of the moderators.

Recall, though, that unless you are a club member, you are here as a guest. (The forum is paid exclusively through the subscriptions of club members and access is permitted to all both to spread the word of the coupe and to encourage the sharing of knowledge about the coupe.) If you are a guest in someone's house, would you not expect to behave in a way which is pleasing to your host? Your host will make accommodation for your behavior but if he does not like it you are unlikely to feel welcome.

Of course, any club member is entitled to present their point of view at the AGM (13th September, this year) and should there be sufficient interest to change these policies, change there will be.

As one of the old skool I came on here just looking for Coop knowledge & was pleasantly surprised how friendly a place it was. I was also made aware very nicely to try & make an effort in my lay out, spelling & general explanation of things & I've always thought fair enough.

Some time back a forum member used to post absolutely anything & everything, the spelling was atrocious, & I *mean* really bad to the extent I didn't exactly complain, I just said make a bit of an effort with the spelling.

Well I sure paid the price for that Slagged to death about my odd spelling mistakes etc, etc.

My point here is I'd rather see a bit of an effort in this department than descending into the depths of the go faster text speak yo man forums.

I have a diesel hack & joined a forum just for some information about the motor. Boy was I surprised at the angry young men slagging off anything they saw fit. Hardly any words as such, text speak & codes only known to them.

My wicked sense of humour could not take it any longer, I posted a facetious reply to one lad who was just talking rubbish. Holy shoot, I was on their death list. What they were going to do to me was eye watering

There is so much information on here apart from the Coop, people still stay on after selling up as said before. Personally I'd hate to see the forum turn into a place where people have grudges or concerns. The forum has changed, but I think we can all make a bit of an effort to keep things flowing.

Too many 14 year old keyboard warriors, Jim

My original post wasn't meant to infer the Forum was being sanitised by Mods. The posts aren't being made in the first place. There is nothing like a heated debate to liven up the evenings!

A heated debate can be interesting and fun. But some of us are just not good at putting opinions across in the written word. Me being one of them. But i still enjoy the read and would encourage people to stick at it.

Although I'm as pompous as it comes, I'm really much keener to see people get involved in a debate with a point of view, even if they can't express it eloquently; there is a whole world of difference between that and someone who puts no thought into a reply, however articulate. Joe, you make plenty of good contributions.
At the moment, the Middle East, the situation between Russia and Ukraine, the Ebola outbreak and almost countless other concerns are overloading my ability to hold cogent opinions. I think I'm getting too old to maintain my level of worriedness about everything.

Strange that Jim. As i am getting more worried about the various world situations as i get older. It may be selfish of me as i have alot more travel plans afoot for next year,but also its a worry for the future generations.

Aye RK I know what you mean. I do like a good debate. I miss the Friday or Saturday night nonsense...sorry debating ritual. Sometimes helped along with Mr sav blanc

Very quiet at the weekends now on here. Dare I say it but I'm waiting for the time when Scotland will decide.

Bracing myself for the forth coming nonsense that will be discussed/slagged

I think my worries are just all merging into one, Joe. I'm not less worried overall, I just don't have the capacity to worry as much about each individual crisis!

Jim, it's always been quieter here in the summer as far as I remember. There may well be more action in the future. But it's undeniable that fewer of the long-standing contributors have been involved in topics on here in recent months. Quite a few have even given notice that they will not be around and whether that is the fault of the moderation, the changing demographics of coupé ownership, the diminishing number of cars and owners looking for a forum like this or other factors, I don't know. Probably a combination...