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Specialist building term... #1507417
12/09/2014 16:06
12/09/2014 16:06
Joined: Dec 2005
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Jim_Clennell Offline OP
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I'm hoping Joe (magooagain) might be able to help here!

Latest translation is a construction industry standard subcontractor contract.

The thrills are hard to bear in this game.

Part of the contract refers to 2nd fix subcontractors specifying where they want recesses/holes/channels, etc left, made or formed into first fix structures, and the trouble they will be in if they get them wrong.

The French term is "Réservation", but I'll be buggered if I can find a similar English term.

<Ben Stein> Anyone?... Anyone...?</Ben Stein>

Re: Specialist building term... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1507427
12/09/2014 17:12
12/09/2014 17:12
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In the coupe.
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Its taken me half an hour to remember what i think it might be Jim. Preamble. But i cant be sure. I will have a fish about mate.



Re: Specialist building term... [Re: magooagain] #1507439
12/09/2014 19:00
12/09/2014 19:00
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Yorks (near Rhubarb Triangle)
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Non conformance. .????

Re: Specialist building term... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1507443
12/09/2014 19:47
12/09/2014 19:47
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Thanks fellas.
If it helps, I think it specifically refers to the holes/recesses/channels, etc that are formed into concrete castings and slabs. Is there a generic name for them?

Re: Specialist building term... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1507449
12/09/2014 20:10
12/09/2014 20:10
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Re: Specialist building term... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1507450
12/09/2014 20:13
12/09/2014 20:13
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Watford, Herts.
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Conduite? Ducting? Trunking?

Re: Specialist building term... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1507452
12/09/2014 20:15
12/09/2014 20:15
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Kent, South East
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Jim, I refer to them chase's, ducts and conduits when writing specs for fit out works, not sure that helps though.


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Re: Specialist building term... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1507453
12/09/2014 20:18
12/09/2014 20:18
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performance specification
Definition
A description of the desired results or performance of a product, material, assembly, or piece of equipment with criteria for verifying compliance.


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Re: Specialist building term... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1507454
12/09/2014 20:19
12/09/2014 20:19
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I think it's a case of French having a single term for all the "hollow" bits you can form into concrete, whereas we use different ones for each.
Thanks for your help!

Re: Specialist building term... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1507456
12/09/2014 20:32
12/09/2014 20:32

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Isn't this just part of the formwork design?

Re: Specialist building term... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1507461
12/09/2014 21:17
12/09/2014 21:17
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Maybe "formwork design" is what I'm looking for...?

Re: Specialist building term... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1507472
12/09/2014 21:46
12/09/2014 21:46
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No I dont think thats quite right. I would say formwork is what is used to define the structure as a a whole. So would be say be controlling the concrete in an r/c wall. You would typically install your ducting for services throught the formwork before hand which is why its important to locate them correctly, get it wrong and your into corring holes to reinstall new ducts.

Atleast that my experience but most of my stuff is underground so above ground works may vary.

Re: Specialist building term... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1507474
12/09/2014 21:48
12/09/2014 21:48
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Re: Specialist building term... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1507475
12/09/2014 21:49
12/09/2014 21:49
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No, I think you are quite right; I just don't know the generic term!

Re: Specialist building term... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1507500
12/09/2014 23:48
12/09/2014 23:48
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I can only guess without knowing the true context, but it maybe that it's not a building term specifically. The term reservation in the context of one trade being dependent on another may translate more like " to make an appropriate allowance".

Reservation in this case being similar to 2nd fix reserving a route or channel for the cabling, pipe work, ducting etc. or 1st fix making correct allowance for it in terms of position and dimensions.

Re: Specialist building term... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1507505
13/09/2014 00:01
13/09/2014 00:01
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In the coupe.
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It would pre-formed allowance aimed at specific trades/requirements. Possibly maybe?



Re: Specialist building term... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1507508
13/09/2014 00:20
13/09/2014 00:20
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Maybe I'm getting the wrong end of the stick. Jim when you say "and the trouble they will be in if they get them wrong." who is the "they"? is it the 2nd fix sub-con or the preceding trade?

Re: Specialist building term... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1507510
13/09/2014 00:25
13/09/2014 00:25
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Both?

Re: Specialist building term... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1507523
13/09/2014 08:14
13/09/2014 08:14
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specification

Definition

A detailed and exact statement of particulars, especially a statement prescribing materials, dimensions, and workmanship for something to be built or installed.

Re: Specialist building term... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1507536
13/09/2014 10:58
13/09/2014 10:58
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Can't you use the word recess. Because that's what they are essentially. Not sure if its used in the building trade.



Re: Specialist building term... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1507545
13/09/2014 11:44
13/09/2014 11:44
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It's a tricky translation, as it's been machine-processed, meaning I just see small sections in a .rtf document.

Basically, this section covers 2nd fix subcontractors providing advance notice in the form of plans and calculations, of the recesses/ducts/shafts/whatever that they want the first fix main contractor (or other subcontractor) to create in the structures that they are responsible for. This is to determine a) who is responsible for filling/sealing the various holes, etc afterwards and b) that if the subcontractor gives the wrong information on the plans, then rectification will be at his expense, not the main contractor's.

The other terms used along with "réservations" are: scellement (sealing) and raccords (connections).

I hope this makes it a bit clearer...?!

Re: Specialist building term... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1507559
13/09/2014 15:16
13/09/2014 15:16
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Jim
Then in that context I tend to think that "reservation" may be being used to mean something like "allowance". That is, where the 2nd fix contractor is "reserving" in advance the location / position / dimensions for whatever they will subsequently come along and install (e.g. pipework, ductwork, cabling etc.).

If the 2nd fix con specifies this information (that the 1st fix will rely on) incorrectly then they (2nd fix) will bear the liability. If the 1st fix con doesn't follow the spec correctly then they (1st fix) will be liable.

I think Joe's definition is probably the closest so far: "pre-formed allowance" aimed at specific trades/requirements.

I'm only guessing, but similar to booking a hotel room, "reservation" in this case is maybe equivalent to the 2nd fix trade reserving the exact position (in terms of position and dimensions etc.) where they'll subsequently install their kit (whatever that may be).

Re: Specialist building term... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1507562
13/09/2014 15:45
13/09/2014 15:45
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Thanks for your help Chris (and indeed everyone!)

I think you've definitely got the meaning of the use of réservation; it just seems as though we don't have a specific word in English (which often happens).

I'm happy with pre-formed allowances. I'll use it and see if it flies. I'll soon find out if the client doesn't like it!

Re: Specialist building term... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1508205
17/09/2014 20:29
17/09/2014 20:29
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Bit late to be helpful, but I'd call the recesses / holes you describe box outs.


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Re: Specialist building term... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1508222
17/09/2014 22:37
17/09/2014 22:37
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Thanks, Mansilla and everyone. Job sent back, so if it's not right I'll have to look again!

Re: Specialist building term... [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1508231
17/09/2014 23:15
17/09/2014 23:15
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Well here I am Jim, contrary to recent accusations tongue

Anyway, if they send it back, I would just go with "trous" and be done with it,





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