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Paris #1555073
13/11/2015 22:31
13/11/2015 22:31
Joined: Mar 2006
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Cambridge & Cotswolds
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MeanRedSpider Offline OP
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Disturbing news about shootings and explosion in Paris this evening frown

Re: Paris [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1555079
13/11/2015 23:22
13/11/2015 23:22
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Portsmouth
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ali_hire Offline
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Doesn't look good. Talk of 50+ hostages as well as those already killed.

Re: Paris [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1555081
13/11/2015 23:56
13/11/2015 23:56
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,162
Glos
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Glos
Yes very worrying...being described as an unprecedented terrorist attack.


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Re: Paris [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1555083
14/11/2015 00:12
14/11/2015 00:12
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783
In the coupe.
magooagain Offline
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All France borders closed and state of emergency declared!



Re: Paris [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1555084
14/11/2015 01:00
14/11/2015 01:00
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,650
Dark side of the Moon
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I feel this may be the the shape of things to come here in the uk also!
totally pointless loss of innocent victims lives!

Re: Paris [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1555092
14/11/2015 01:47
14/11/2015 01:47
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,812
Auld Reekie
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Horrific year for Paris, worryingly close too. Good fuel for the internet info collection legislation being proposed.

Agonising decision for the special troops commander to make especially with the number of fatalities at the concert hall.


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Re: Paris [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1555094
14/11/2015 02:19
14/11/2015 02:19
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,294
Portsmouth
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ali_hire Offline
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Just hearing that the concert was the Eagles of Death Metal who I really like.. I hope they are all ok.

What the hell can be done about this kind of thing though? Drone strikes are clearly not working.

Re: Paris [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1555102
14/11/2015 10:10
14/11/2015 10:10
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Corridor of Uncertainty
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Very frightening. All my friends in Paris seem to be marked as safe on Facebook, which is a relief from a selfish point of view.
I think Paris may be being punished for its defiance in the face of the Charlie Hebdo attack, as well as France's involvement in Syria.

Re: Paris [Re: ali_hire] #1555106
14/11/2015 11:02
14/11/2015 11:02
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 776
State of Essex .
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Originally Posted By: ali_hire
Just hearing that the concert was the Eagles of Death Metal who I really like.. I hope they are all ok.

What the hell can be done about this kind of thing though? Drone strikes are clearly not working.


I think you will find Jihadi John may disagree with you on that fact .


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Re: Paris [Re: robcoupe20vt] #1555107
14/11/2015 11:42
14/11/2015 11:42
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Portsmouth
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Originally Posted By: robcoupe20vt

I think you will find Jihadi John may disagree with you on that fact .


Do you think that the attacks will stop now one IS scumbag has been killed?

I don't. If anything, I'd argue that his perpetual violence upon violence is only escalating the problem.

Re: Paris [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1555108
14/11/2015 12:22
14/11/2015 12:22
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 776
State of Essex .
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I never said one attack would stop anyone thats a very nieve thought . There is nothing that can be done . If one group of religious people cant even get on with another group of people (sunni and shiite ) in its own religion there is no hope .


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Re: Paris [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1555114
14/11/2015 14:09
14/11/2015 14:09
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,561
Berlin
barnacle Offline
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Berlin
And people wonder about my opposition to any and all forms of religion...


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Re: Paris [Re: barnacle] #1555117
14/11/2015 14:17
14/11/2015 14:17
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,244
Watford, Herts.
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Originally Posted By: barnacle
And people wonder about my opposition to any and all forms of religion...


Well quite. Time and again religion is used as justification for unspeakable acts.

Re: Paris [Re: Hyperlink] #1555128
14/11/2015 16:23
14/11/2015 16:23
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,068
South Cambs
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Barmybob Offline
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South Cambs
As has been seen with other terrorists the only solution is to talk and to compromise. Flexing muscles bombing and talking tough is not the way to deal with those who are prepared to fight terrorist campaigns against innocents.

Did sending more British Soldiers into Ireland work? NO, it just brought more killing to the streets of England! As much as I find certain persons form that conflict abhorrent I would rather they shake their fists over tables and spout rubbish than plant bombs in shopping centers.


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Re: Paris [Re: Barmybob] #1555130
14/11/2015 16:38
14/11/2015 16:38
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
M
MeanRedSpider Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Barmybob


Did sending more British Soldiers into Ireland work? NO, it just brought more killing to the streets of England!


I think you've way over-simplified the Troubles and I'm not at all sure what relevance it has to this discussion.

I also kinda doubt that ISIS is an organisation with which you can sit down and negotiate. They come across as just a bunch of sociopaths

Re: Paris [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1555133
14/11/2015 16:55
14/11/2015 16:55
Joined: Mar 2006
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Cambridge & Cotswolds
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MeanRedSpider Offline OP
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I hope this TGV derailment, as terrible as it is on its own, isn't a continuation of this

Re: Paris [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1555134
14/11/2015 16:57
14/11/2015 16:57
Joined: Dec 2005
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I just saw that and had the same thought.

Re: Paris [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1555135
14/11/2015 17:03
14/11/2015 17:03
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
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MeanRedSpider Offline OP
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Seems like it might have been a test run that went wrong

Re: Paris [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1555139
14/11/2015 17:13
14/11/2015 17:13
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South Cambs
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With regard your first point, relevance. They too had terrorists. As much as we now try and forget, those terrorists brought death and destruction to innocents too. The solution only came from talking...

Originally Posted By: MeanRedSpider
I also kinda doubt that ISIS is an organisation with which you can sit down and negotiate. They come across as just a bunch of sociopaths


Agree with the sociopath comment but if your assessment that there will be no talking to such people is correct, then our future looks rather bleak frown



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Re: Paris [Re: Barmybob] #1555141
14/11/2015 17:35
14/11/2015 17:35
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 310
n.ireland
zigman36 Offline
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n.ireland
Originally Posted By: Barmybob
With regard your first point, relevance. They too had terrorists. As much as we now try and forget, those terrorists brought death and destruction to innocents too. The solution only came from talking...

Originally Posted By: MeanRedSpider
I also kinda doubt that ISIS is an organisation with which you can sit down and negotiate. They come across as just a bunch of sociopaths


Agree with the sociopath comment but if your assessment that there will be no talking to such people is correct, then our future looks rather bleak frown

being from northern ireland, i can assure you that the tragedy Paris has suffered is far different than the troubles. We suffered from those trying to profit from misery and still do! ISIS is a totally different set up, closing borders, big brother surveillance, armed forces on the streets etc. will have to happen to help flush this cancer out.



Re: Paris [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1555142
14/11/2015 17:56
14/11/2015 17:56
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
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MeanRedSpider Offline OP
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Yup - whilst Ireland was mostly resolved by talking, we weren't flying sorties to bomb those terrorists. Equally the Irish terrorists ended up talking because they were making no progress towards their aims. IS is different altogether.

Latest news is that at least one of the Paris bombers came through Greece as a migrant. I'm afraid that isn't going to be good news for the legitimate migrants.

Re: Paris [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1555155
14/11/2015 18:58
14/11/2015 18:58

B
Big_Muzzie
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Not sure what to say. It's a sad sad state of affairs.
Can't see talking to isis working, their demands would involve many people being ruled in way that no western government (infact civilised) could accept as being a sensible solution.

There are 2 ways that would solve it:

Nuke the cloud9 out of the area and wipe out the majority of them and their resources / ways of earning cash.

Find an even worse set of scumbags to fight for power in the region to derail them.

Diplomacy vanished with the wmd debacle. They blow up planes, buildings and world treasures with disregard.

Maybe the Internet needs switching off???

Re: Paris [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1555157
14/11/2015 19:06
14/11/2015 19:06
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,144
Southampton, Hants
Roadking Offline
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Originally Posted By: MeanRedSpider


Latest news is that at least one of the Paris bombers came through Greece as a migrant. I'm afraid that isn't going to be good news for the legitimate migrants.


Well who didn't see that coming? Just earlier than expected.


"RK's way seems the most sensible to me". ali_hire 16 Dec 2010
Re: Paris [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1555159
14/11/2015 19:22
14/11/2015 19:22

B
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Watching the news now, it appears even worse than I thought it was when I saw it this morning.
I work for a French company with offices in that area of Paris. Hope there's no bad news on Monday.

Re: Paris [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1555161
14/11/2015 19:27
14/11/2015 19:27
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,090
highlands
jimboy Offline
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Originally Posted By: MeanRedSpider
Yup - whilst Ireland was mostly resolved by talking, we weren't flying sorties to bomb those terrorists. Equally the Irish terrorists ended up talking because they were making no progress towards their aims. IS is different altogether.

Latest news is that at least one of the Paris bombers came through Greece as a migrant. I'm afraid that isn't going to be good news for the legitimate migrants.


Really want to keep out of this / obviously horrendous as it is, the Irish situation was a totally different story.


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Re: Paris [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1555162
14/11/2015 19:34
14/11/2015 19:34
Joined: Mar 2006
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Cambridge & Cotswolds
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MeanRedSpider Offline OP
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Yes - Ireland was a totally different situation.

Re: Paris [Re: Hyperlink] #1555163
14/11/2015 19:40
14/11/2015 19:40
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783
In the coupe.
magooagain Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hyperlink
Originally Posted By: barnacle
And people wonder about my opposition to any and all forms of religion...


Well quite. Time and again religion is used as justification for unspeakable acts.






Well yes it's true that unspeakable acts have been carried out using religion as a cause.

But ultimately it's all about power over others. Here,s a list of other culprits that can be put alongside religion.

Past kings and queens.

Pagan Chiefs.

Various dictators.

Oh and politicians! Now there's a bee's nest for discussion.

We really have to take a long look at what past governments from all over the world have been and are involved in.

No one is blameless.

It's very shocking for us now it's on our doorstep but it's on someone's doorstep everyday.

A terrible state of affairs.



Re: Paris [Re: magooagain] #1555164
14/11/2015 19:58
14/11/2015 19:58
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highlands
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Originally Posted By: magooagain
Originally Posted By: Hyperlink
Originally Posted By: barnacle
And people wonder about my opposition to any and all forms of religion...


Well quite. Time and again religion is used as justification for unspeakable acts.






Well yes it's true that unspeakable acts have been carried out using religion as a cause.

But ultimately it's all about power over others. Here,s a list of other culprits that can be put alongside religion.

Past kings and queens.

Pagan Chiefs.

Various dictators.

Oh and politicians! Now there's a bee's nest for discussion.

We really have to take a long look at what past governments from all over the world have been and are involved in.

No one is blameless.

It's very shocking for us now it's on our doorstep but it's on someone's doorstep everyday.

A terrible state of affairs.




Joe, I've tried to keep out of this as said, I agree with what you've said & I'm probably a bit....this would never happen in my neck of the woods, sounding all too selfish. This is devastating to say the least. So much history in the past as Joe has pointed out. The human bombs however are something else.Again I'm stating the obvious. The one thing that we all agree on is the fact no one has an answer.


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Re: Paris [Re: Barmybob] #1555165
14/11/2015 20:02
14/11/2015 20:02
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 776
State of Essex .
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Originally Posted By: Barmybob
As has been seen with other terrorists the only solution is to talk and to compromise. Flexing muscles bombing and talking tough is not the way to deal with those who are prepared to fight terrorist campaigns against innocents.

Did sending more British Soldiers into Ireland work? NO, it just brought more killing to the streets of England! As much as I find certain persons form that conflict abhorrent I would rather they shake their fists over tables and spout rubbish than plant bombs in shopping centers.

Question : How do you talk to an organisation who want to live in the middle ages and shun everything western .


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Re: Paris [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1555170
14/11/2015 20:41
14/11/2015 20:41
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Watford, Herts.
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Not sure what the point of the post quoting me was making. Never said it wasn't about power. Most of those listed will have used religion as the justification for war which kind of proves the point.

Its some what of a circular argument as those in power (King/Queen/Chief/Pope/etc) are often the religious leaders as well, or have the immense sway over those that are.

Are IS (or whoever) powerful because they are religious or vice versa? they pretty much go hand in glove.

Not having a crack at anyones beliefs or any one group. Just agreeing with Neil that religion as a concept is flawed because humans are flawed.

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