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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: MeanRedSpider]
#1600733
17/05/2017 18:36
17/05/2017 18:36
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,621 Leicester UK
Ballypete
Club Member 1578
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Club Member 1578
My life on the forum
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,621
Leicester UK
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Yup. It's just a shame that those particular "boys in blue" omitted the information in their report of the ticket despite saying that they would... Yes- that's a shame. When Peel founded the modern police service he said words to the effect of 'the police are the public and the public are the police'. My take on that is if policing represents the society it serves then there are going to be a few ars*holes. Give the majority of us a bad name..
Doris the 1998 Portofino Blue 20V and Zoe the 1999 Alfa Romeo 916 Spider Bog standard needn't be boring...
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Ballypete]
#1600736
17/05/2017 19:15
17/05/2017 19:15
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,518 Aldershot
PeteP
Hon Club Member 005, Membership Secretary
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Hon Club Member 005, Membership Secretary
Forum Fossil
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,518
Aldershot
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My take on that is if policing represents the society it serves then there are going to be a few ars*holes. Give the majority of us a bad name.. Indeed. I was once chatting to one of our local cops and mentioned that I didn't think much of how a certain PC Snow had dealt with an issue involving one of my son's friends. His response was to express his embarrassment and ask that we do not judge the majority of his colleges on PC Snow's behaviour.
16VT and X1/9 1500
We must all do our part for the planet. I unplugged a row of electric cars that nobody was using.
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Ballypete]
#1600738
17/05/2017 19:35
17/05/2017 19:35
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852 Cambridge & Cotswolds
MeanRedSpider
Je suis un Coupé
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Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
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Yup. It's just a shame that those particular "boys in blue" omitted the information in their report of the ticket despite saying that they would... Yes- that's a shame. When Peel founded the modern police service he said words to the effect of 'the police are the public and the public are the police'. My take on that is if policing represents the society it serves then there are going to be a few ars*holes. Give the majority of us a bad name.. Yup - I had enough problems to be dealing with at that point.
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: MeanRedSpider]
#1600739
17/05/2017 19:51
17/05/2017 19:51
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 220 Portsmouth
Mark_D
OP
Making a profit
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OP
Making a profit
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 220
Portsmouth
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I've had a couple of tickets in the 25 yrs I've been driving, and that is just because of my own ignorance. I got caught once where they'd placed a well hidden van smack bang next to a speed change, and the other one was when they reduced the speed on a street that I turned into, that I hadn't been down for years. A cop with a handheld was pinging people at the end of the road.
I think they tend to cash in on people who have genuinely cocked up, where as people who blatantly speed should be the Ines they focus on Unfortunately there is no difference between speeding if you 'genuinely cock up' and blatant/deliberate speeding as it's what's called an absolute offence. In other words unless you can prove you were not speeding then in law you are guilty whether you intended to or not. So both scenarios are fair game. My understanding (bourne out by experience in Scotland myself and from Stan, traffic cop, of this parish) is that there's still a "public interest" test. When I got ticketed I had Charlie (13) in the car. He'd been away from home for a month, was wheelchair-bound from a massive recent cancer op, was feeling sick from recent chemo and needed the toilet (not many of those on the A9 in the evening). The road was clear and visibility was great. It was a 3-hour drive. The procurator fiscal in Inverness decided that it wasn't in the public interest to pinch me. I did explain in my letter that I would do the same thing again and expected any parent would. That was definitely the kind of situation where a find should have been waived, without a doubt! I just worry that I'm susceptible to tripping up and costing myself a lot of money, due to my own stupidity. I am reliant on my car when I'm doing 2,3, 4.00 in the morning starts. It would kill me if I have to take to pedal power, as it seems the Hampshire Police are on a mission at the moment. P.s, hope the fella is in better health now
Fiat Coupe 20vt Fiat Punto Mk2 Sporting Suzuki GSX-R 1000 K2
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Mark_D]
#1600741
17/05/2017 20:09
17/05/2017 20:09
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,621 Leicester UK
Ballypete
Club Member 1578
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Club Member 1578
My life on the forum
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,621
Leicester UK
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I've had a couple of tickets in the 25 yrs I've been driving, and that is just because of my own ignorance. I got caught once where they'd placed a well hidden van smack bang next to a speed change, and the other one was when they reduced the speed on a street that I turned into, that I hadn't been down for years. A cop with a handheld was pinging people at the end of the road.
I think they tend to cash in on people who have genuinely cocked up, where as people who blatantly speed should be the Ines they focus on Unfortunately there is no difference between speeding if you 'genuinely cock up' and blatant/deliberate speeding as it's what's called an absolute offence. In other words unless you can prove you were not speeding then in law you are guilty whether you intended to or not. So both scenarios are fair game. My understanding (bourne out by experience in Scotland myself and from Stan, traffic cop, of this parish) is that there's still a "public interest" test. When I got ticketed I had Charlie (13) in the car. He'd been away from home for a month, was wheelchair-bound from a massive recent cancer op, was feeling sick from recent chemo and needed the toilet (not many of those on the A9 in the evening). The road was clear and visibility was great. It was a 3-hour drive. The procurator fiscal in Inverness decided that it wasn't in the public interest to pinch me. I did explain in my letter that I would do the same thing again and expected any parent would. That was definitely the kind of situation where a find should have been waived, without a doubt! I just worry that I'm susceptible to tripping up and costing myself a lot of money, due to my own stupidity. I am reliant on my car when I'm doing 2,3, 4.00 in the morning starts. It would kill me if I have to take to pedal power, as it seems the Hampshire Police are on a mission at the moment. P.s, hope the fella is in better health now I second that
Doris the 1998 Portofino Blue 20V and Zoe the 1999 Alfa Romeo 916 Spider Bog standard needn't be boring...
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Mark_D]
#1600748
17/05/2017 21:45
17/05/2017 21:45
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 220 Portsmouth
Mark_D
OP
Making a profit
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OP
Making a profit
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 220
Portsmouth
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Oh mate,...my thoughts are with you and your poor daughter, bless her. Hope she picks up bud P.s, as for the tax man, just shows how insensitive & inhuman people can be!
Fiat Coupe 20vt Fiat Punto Mk2 Sporting Suzuki GSX-R 1000 K2
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Mark_D]
#1600778
18/05/2017 10:51
18/05/2017 10:51
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,621 Leicester UK
Ballypete
Club Member 1578
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Club Member 1578
My life on the forum
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,621
Leicester UK
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You'll never guess what?,...ironically, I think I may have just been caught yet again! Came back from work at about 11.45. I was just following along with the flow of traffic through Hilsea in Portsmouth and I spotted a camera van. I was doing at or just under 40 (like most people around me at the time). Looks like a punch in the goolies is coming my way!
God in heaven, I can see myself having to crawl around like an O.A.P for fear of another ticket. Again, just keeping up with the traffic and finding out I'm one of the many that is probably going too fast Oh no, this must be catching- earlier today a van just outside Wigston I think I was probably 35-36 in a 30...might be lucky!
Doris the 1998 Portofino Blue 20V and Zoe the 1999 Alfa Romeo 916 Spider Bog standard needn't be boring...
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Mark_D]
#1600788
18/05/2017 12:22
18/05/2017 12:22
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 649 UK
Clintos
Club member 2040
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Club member 2040
Enjoying the ride
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 649
UK
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Been reading the above posts with great interest and feel Ive unearthed a contradiction...... Speeding is speeding? yes 1mph above the limit or 5 mph above the limit. I understand that the tolerences given by police forces are only guidelines and they do not need to consider such, the same can be said for driver awareness courses. However, although I understand the above mentioned "Public Interest" case and the fact that I would probably do the same thing myself, is this still not speeding and breaking the law? What happens if your involved in an accident or kill a pedestrian and speed is a factor? Is your case any different now just because you had a wheelchair-bound person from a massive recent cancer op, was feeling sick from recent chemo and needed the toilet........Answer NO!! Good debate, I'll enjoy reading more................. PS Thoughts are with you and your family MRS, you seem to always be up against it
Last edited by Clintos; 18/05/2017 12:24.
Boooooooooost!!!
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Clintos]
#1600790
18/05/2017 13:04
18/05/2017 13:04
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,621 Leicester UK
Ballypete
Club Member 1578
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Club Member 1578
My life on the forum
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,621
Leicester UK
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Been reading the above posts with great interest and feel Ive unearthed a contradiction...... Speeding is speeding? yes 1mph above the limit or 5 mph above the limit. I understand that the tolerences given by police forces are only guidelines and they do not need to consider such, the same can be said for driver awareness courses. However, although I understand the above mentioned "Public Interest" case and the fact that I would probably do the same thing myself, is this still not speeding and breaking the law? What happens if your involved in an accident or kill a pedestrian and speed is a factor? Is your case any different now just because you had a wheelchair-bound person from a massive recent cancer op, was feeling sick from recent chemo and needed the toilet........Answer NO!! Good debate, I'll enjoy reading more................. PS Thoughts are with you and your family MRS, you seem to always be up against it Yes Clintos - speeding is called an absolute offence so unless you can prove that you were not speeding you are presumed guilty in law. so yes, speeding is speeding. Hopefully I can explain the next bit in plain english... However public interest can come in to play in certain cases at a later stage and in certain circumstances. This is basically where factors like severity, community impact, harm caused to any victim, culpability, age of suspect, proportionality (worth the cost) and even in extreme cases the need to protect the national security (PII) can come into play. Normally this plays out as part of something called the full code test for offences that may result in a custodial sentence for example. For a minor issue like speeding there would need to be special circumstances. So in the circs outlined earlier, time of night, location and the other factors can be considered. it still doesn't guarantee success of course. The fact that it was late at night, the location (not outside a school or built up area) the reasons behind it (the comfort and basic dignity of someone with illness) and no harm caused to any specific victim do not mean the driver wasn't speeding, (because unless you prove you were not the law says you are guilty) but it does allow the test to be applied. The what happens if bit isn't part of the consideration when making this decision (as 'it' didn't happen). However, In the circs given earlier, if someone had been injured say due to a crash, then public interest would likely be in favour of prosecution if the offence was contested. Many speeding offences are unlikely to be stopped due to public interest (because speeding harms and kills on the roads every day) and most reasonable people can understand that and accept they broke the law. So speeding is a relatively minor offence that is proactively targetted due to the harm that sometimes happens, and might be prevented, if the speed was in limits. A change in driver culture is sought to prevent those more serious consequences. if that happens then another charge would likely take precedence. I have pulled speeding motorists who were engaged in the following i) where a loved one was having a baby there and then and needed hospital treatment ii) where her son was bleeding out in the car having been stabbed and no ambulance was available. In both cases my crewmate got into the vehicle to assist and I provided a blue light escort. No one was killed injured or otherwise damaged by the speeding prior to our intervention. Both cases were speeding, and red light contravention, but later applied public interest stopped the prosecution. There is actually nothing in law that says that a prosecution for an offence will actually take place, but its pretty likely that it will unless special circumstances apply. i have just realised it is difficult to talk about the law in plain english...
Last edited by Ballypete; 18/05/2017 13:50.
Doris the 1998 Portofino Blue 20V and Zoe the 1999 Alfa Romeo 916 Spider Bog standard needn't be boring...
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Mark_D]
#1600811
18/05/2017 17:58
18/05/2017 17:58
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 649 UK
Clintos
Club member 2040
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Club member 2040
Enjoying the ride
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 649
UK
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Thanks for the detailed explanation Ballypete, very well put into text I might add. Interesting read.....
Boooooooooost!!!
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Ballypete]
#1600813
18/05/2017 18:03
18/05/2017 18:03
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,815 Auld Reekie
Edinburgh
Club President, member225
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Club President, member225
Forum veteran
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,815
Auld Reekie
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i have just realised it is difficult to talk about the law in plain english...
One of the legends of this forum (Stan) was on the traffic side of "chequered gentlemen" and he was always clear and informative about such matters. Sadly he's not been on here for a while and those of us who are longer in the tooth miss his banter. Your post is far from unclear and I for one look forward to hearing the POV from who's "been there" more often
BumbleBee carer
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Mark_D]
#1600820
18/05/2017 19:04
18/05/2017 19:04
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 220 Portsmouth
Mark_D
OP
Making a profit
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OP
Making a profit
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 220
Portsmouth
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I'm pretty new to this site too. I've been on a few of the Punto Forums & Fiat Forum for a fair few years, but I'd just like to thank people for their advice too.
I know most of us are not complete mental cases in these machines, and I like most people, am grateful to the likes of Ballypete for any help regarding the legal side of things.
I think we've all just got to accept that even though we might be trying to drive sensible that (now the screws have been tightened down harder with the new approach by the authorities), we might still fall foul & end up with tickets on a more regular basis.
It's just going to be something we're all going to have to adapt to and accept
Fiat Coupe 20vt Fiat Punto Mk2 Sporting Suzuki GSX-R 1000 K2
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