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Re: The Maybot
[Re: AnnieMac]
#1609388
11/10/2017 12:52
11/10/2017 12:52
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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Oh, don't get me wrong - I agree that the country is in a bit of a state. However, it could be argued that the country has created a false expectation by spending several decades using borrowed money to fund public services and a welfare state system that was unsupportable based on the government's earnings - quite simply, it was unsustainable and only the Tories seemed to be brave enough to deal with it. Tossing more borrowed money at the situation merely puts off the inevitable and actually makes the inevitable worse. Long-term, we HAVE to run the country on what the country earns - its a fundamental fiscal requirement. Yes, you can borrow to fill in short-term funding gaps, but the country cannot run its long-term finances on debt. We haven't yet seen the full extent of the austerity measures - as a country, we are still spending massively more than we're earning - the only thing that is reducing is the rate of borrowing. As well as Government borrowing, consumer credit is also exploding, which is a ticking time-bomb. The moment that interest rates rise by more than a quarter of one percent or so, the default rate on loans will sky-rocket, credit will become more difficult and people will be compelled to live on what they earn - it will be a huge shock for a society driven by consumption. There are two solutions 1) Earn more 2) Spend less (or a combination of both) The government seems to be focusing on #2, but I think there's an inevitability that tax rates will need to rise. A large element of the electorate seems to accept this.
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Re: The Maybot
[Re: H_R]
#1609422
11/10/2017 19:22
11/10/2017 19:22
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,301 Pontefract, West Yorkshire
andyps
My job on the forum
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My job on the forum
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,301
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
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Corbyn claims he will buy back companies, but with what? shirt buttons? i do not trust any of his policies!
That is one of the reasons I don't trust him. McDonnell said that parliament would determine the market value when buying them which in itself shows a fundamental lack of understanding of market value, or arrogance that they would be the only market. But what it completely misses in terms of the assertion that it is the rich who are benefiting from the profits of the large companies and those they want to nationalise is that a large portion of the shares are owned by pension and insurance companies. And they have invested the money received from policies taken out by "the many". So by buying those companies with money the government don't have at a price less than the market value they will be borrowing to steal pension funds from the people they are claiming to be trying to help. A bit like Gordon Brown stealing from pension funds in his first budget that affected everyone who had invested in a pension, personal or company scheme. Their manifesto was as fully costed as my proposal to get a straight swap for my Coupe in exchange for a McLaren BP23 is. There were so many holes in it I haven't got enough characters in a post here!
Andy
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Re: The Maybot
[Re: AnnieMac]
#1609541
13/10/2017 23:36
13/10/2017 23:36
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Jef_uk
Unregistered
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Jef_uk
Unregistered
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I am a Labour party member and Jeremy Corbyn will do just fine. Personally I think that best thing that could happen to the buffoon Boris is for him to mistake himself for the Guy on the fifth of November. Fact is that the whole lot of the conservatives are numb sculls. ( labors no better and more deluded) the coronation shows that. .... I started my own Business recently. But back in twenty ten I could only afford to live in an HMO. I had to deal with druggies keeping me up snorting coke in the kitchen. I'm going to be up against the wall before I vote for someone who wants to give the drug addled sloths my taxes for doing nothing! At the time (2010) I was told I was lucky to have a job. No. I was the best, most hard working person with my skill set in the UK. Thats why I was hardly ever at my own home! I was paid naf all and hate the slum landlords and all the people who have buy to lets stopping hard working people buying a home at a reasonable price, to get away from the scum who the equally hateful labor give money to buy drink and drugs. Some people deserve to starve. I feel no shame in saying that. Not a single party represents me. I don't mind paying tax so people on low incomes don't, but don't give money for nothing! Seriously up the minimum wage. Up the tax free allowance, automate! I've read that a few times and I don't want to cause offence. I also want people who are working to be able to get by. I'm able to charge what I want now for people and work I provide for clients, partially due to the experience that I got working where I did. But I'm the only person from there to be doing what I do now. That often includes automating peoples jobs. They can then spend productive time doing something more productive. Places I've been have grown in staff thanks to increased productivity.
Last edited by Jef_uk; 14/10/2017 07:10. Reason: Ok that is a bit harsh
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Re: The Maybot
[Re: AnnieMac]
#1609617
15/10/2017 00:10
15/10/2017 00:10
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,095 Berkshire
AnnieMac
OP
Enjoying the ride
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OP
Enjoying the ride
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,095
Berkshire
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Corbyn has stuck to his principles on every single vote throughout his entire career. His problem with the EU is that its structure is undemocratic and they interfere too much in the affairs of individual countries, eg forcing Greece to do austerity measures. Having said that he did vote to stay in, on the grounds that it could be reformed from within and he likes to have a close relationship with other European socialists. Now he has accepted the referendum result, if we had another the result would be almost 50-50 again anyway, according to two recent polls. Corbyn had nothing to do with the EU referendum, it was all to do with Tory party in-fighting, fear of UKIP, and the power of Rupert Murdoch who hates the EU because "they take no notice of me"! Corbyn's promise on tuition fees was to abolish them entirely for new students and for those already in debt he only promised to "deal with it", ie to lower debts in some way if he could. He only said it was very unfair that recently the fees went up from £2,000 to £9,000 a year so debts are much larger now. It was not a lie but has been jumped on and twisted by the Tories of course. If you try to view Corbyn without the very biased filter of the mainstream media, eg by just listening to one of his speeches in its entirety, (lots on YouTube) you might find that he makes a lot of sense and obviously has a huge amount of compassion which has been lacking from politics for so long. He is not an extremist, he is actually centre left if anything, and he only wants to make the UK a bit like Finland, ie to pay for the things that matter, like the NHS and schools and care homes. There is huge support in the country for making the railways, water etc publicly owned and he is committed to investment in green energy. Really, what's not to like? After 5 or 10 years under Corbyn, we won't want to go back to the bad old days of the Tories, that's for sure!
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Re: The Maybot
[Re: AnnieMac]
#1609631
15/10/2017 08:00
15/10/2017 08:00
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852 Cambridge & Cotswolds
MeanRedSpider
Je suis un Coupé
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Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
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Corbyn may have voted to remain (I don’t know how we know for certain) but he was effectively MIA during the campaign. For someone who, according to his supporters, is passionate and principled, he effectively did nothing and didn’t seem too concerned about the result. I can see, if you’re under his spell, how you might believe what he’s said about both that and tuition fees. He’s also been incredibly weak on the antisemitism in the Labour party. With the support of the extreme left in Momentum, he has done incredibly well for which he has my respect but his policies are from the 1970s - they didn’t work then (and how) and they won’t work now - it’s just bald economics. And I thought it was now official Labour policy to keep Trident? Personally, in a world where NK and, increasingly likely, Iran have nuclear weapons, I’d quite like to feel we can dissuade them from using them. And neither Germany nor Japan have nuclear weapons for obvious reasons - I’m not sure what the point is there. India and China do if it’s an economic point.
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Re: The Maybot
[Re: AnnieMac]
#1609670
15/10/2017 18:23
15/10/2017 18:23
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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(Germany has no nuclear weapons.) It doesn't need its own - it has access to a nuclear arsenal under the Nato weapons sharing agreement
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Re: The Maybot
[Re: AnnieMac]
#1609671
15/10/2017 18:28
15/10/2017 18:28
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GrahamL
Unregistered
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GrahamL
Unregistered
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^^ And Germany has US nuclear weapons permanently based there, as do a few other European countries, so technically they do "have" nuclear weapons in Germany.
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Re: The Maybot
[Re: AnnieMac]
#1609698
15/10/2017 23:22
15/10/2017 23:22
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,095 Berkshire
AnnieMac
OP
Enjoying the ride
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OP
Enjoying the ride
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,095
Berkshire
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Barnacle, houses cost a fraction to build of what they sell for, nowhere near £200,000 each. Tax evasion costs us £16 billion a year. Whether the sums add up or not doesn't matter, having a Prime Minister with a will to help people is what really matters. After world war two the country's finances were at an all-time low but the Labour government managed to build homes for everyone, and to set up the NHS. It's a question of priorities and the Tories will always look after their super rich chums who have top jobs waiting for ex-cabinet members. They have the media sewn up now even the Guardian has right-wing owners. They have managed to make Socialism a dirty word in much the same way as they did with Feminism. Socialism just means sharing, it's what we teach our children to do, not to be selfish. There is a terrible myth in the media that the disabled are mostly malingerers and it couldn't be further from the truth. Then there are all those lazy so and sos out of work - blaming the unemployed for unemployment - how do they get away with that one? It suits the 1% for there to be competition for jobs. It means those with a job will accept low wages because they are grateful to have one. Then you make the welfare system a nightmare so that people are doubly scared to lose their jobs. There is not a single worker's right that was not fought and paid for with blood and this government would go right back to 1930s conditions if we let them. My eyesight was ruined by the early VDU screens on computers. My Grandad died very young after a hard life working in unbearable temperatures as a brass caster, my uncle died of emphysema at the age of 37 from cleaning out the boilers on steam trains. I only had a relatively easy life because my Dad was bright and worked hard and clawed his way up the ranks in the civil service, then when he came to his interview to go above the rank of Principal they asked him if he was an Oxford or Cambridge man and he had to admit he only had his school certificate and that's as far as they would let him go. I know some people are doing very nicely thankyou in this Tory UK but others are not and more often than not it's due to forces beyond their control. I can't imagine what it must be like to be a mother of three under school age kids living in a mold-ridden high-rise flat on a sink estate when the husband has buggered off and getting help from the DWP is getting more and more like the women having to beg off the Irish Catholic church in Angela's Ashes. I want every child in this country to be fed and clothed properly, to sleep in a safe comfy place, and to have free health care and the opportunity to have a first rate education. Is that so much to ask?
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Re: The Maybot
[Re: AnnieMac]
#1609706
16/10/2017 05:24
16/10/2017 05:24
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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Whether the sums add up or not doesn't matter Yup, that's Corbyn's manifesto, right there. Labour's wishes are admirable, but they have to be paid for, and without significant tax rises, there simply isn't enough money to pay for everything he's promising.
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Re: The Maybot
[Re: AnnieMac]
#1609723
16/10/2017 09:21
16/10/2017 09:21
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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Socialism just means sharing, This is the fluffy phrase that Labour trots out, but the truer definition is "re-distribution". There's a distinct whiff of "if we can't have it then nobody should...." to Labour. Ultimately, the "rich" already pay a disproportionate amount of the country's tax, but that's how the tax system works, so they live with it. Somebody on £20k pays 15.6% in deductions. Somebody on £50k pays 26.4%. Somebody on £100k pays 34.2%. How much more would Labour plunder the higher earners in their quest for a less disparate society?
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Re: The Maybot
[Re: AnnieMac]
#1609728
16/10/2017 10:37
16/10/2017 10:37
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,895 2011 and 2015 FCCUK F1 Champ.
bezzer
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,895
2011 and 2015 FCCUK F1 Champ.
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Whether the sums add up or not doesn't matter Are you for real? You'd be happy to let this country get into even greater debt than it already is? Inflation would sky rocket, unemployment would rise and we'd be back to the dark days of the 70's If that's the Socialist dream, then you can keep it.
......My Boy...... (PB #7)
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Re: The Maybot
[Re: bezzer]
#1609729
16/10/2017 11:17
16/10/2017 11:17
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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As proof that the general population has a selectively short memory, there's a much bigger threat looming than Corbyn Consumer debt is now as high as it was just before the financial crisis. 18-24 year olds are the worst, with average debt equivalent to a year's earnings. This is going to end in tears (again). We haven't finished paying for the last crisis yet, so our resilience to a new credit crunch is nowhere near as strong as it was a decade ago (and it wasn't particularly strong back then...) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41609311Consumer debt has the potential to bring down an entire country, especially if interest rates rise enough to make the debt un-sustainable
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Re: The Maybot
[Re: MeanRedSpider]
#1609731
16/10/2017 11:31
16/10/2017 11:31
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390 Essex
Trappy
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390
Essex
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Personally, in a world where NK and, increasingly likely, Iran have nuclear weapons, I’d quite like to feel we can dissuade them from using them. I would turn the TV off at this stage And neither Germany nor Japan have nuclear weapons for obvious reasons.
I've got to hear this - what are these "obvious reasons" then? The only nation with nuclear weapons worth worrying about is Israel (and it's weapons division, the US). This never seems to be mentioned on here - or in mainstream media (I'm not even going near that coincidence...). The 'Samsom Option' is what keeps the rest of the world in line.
F****** b****** thing...
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Re: The Maybot
[Re: Trappy]
#1609736
16/10/2017 11:57
16/10/2017 11:57
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GrahamL
Unregistered
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GrahamL
Unregistered
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I've got to hear this - what are these "obvious reasons" then? Presumably the demilitarisation clauses we added to both countries constitutions at the end of WW2, for a start.
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Re: The Maybot
[Re: Trappy]
#1609738
16/10/2017 12:03
16/10/2017 12:03
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852 Cambridge & Cotswolds
MeanRedSpider
Je suis un Coupé
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Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
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I've got to hear this - what are these "obvious reasons" then?
Something to do with a small war at the beginning of the 1940s. Just do a bit of reading of real history.
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Re: The Maybot
[Re: AnnieMac]
#1609748
16/10/2017 12:29
16/10/2017 12:29
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852 Cambridge & Cotswolds
MeanRedSpider
Je suis un Coupé
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Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
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Wouldn't you rather have Keir Starmer, the brilliant human rights lawyer who took on McDonalds (for free) on behalf of leaflet distributors who were trying to point out how unhealthy their food is, in charge of Brexit negotiations, I would, actually. But it’s clear from the interview I watched on Sunday that he daren’t discuss anything beyond his brief in opposition and that he’s not much of a Corbyn fan. And it was interesting listening to him talk after hearing Macdonall talking on the other channel regarding the same question of negotiating the exit fee. Very little consistency of response. Starmer would make a much better leader than Corbyn.
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Re: The Maybot
[Re: AnnieMac]
#1609751
16/10/2017 12:46
16/10/2017 12:46
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GrahamL
Unregistered
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GrahamL
Unregistered
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I think it may have escaped your notice how cruel and unkind the Tories are being towards the sick, the disabled, and the dying. I knew this guy: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/family-mentally-ill-scot-who-7348119who was mentally ill and hung himself after his benefits were stopped and he was about to be evicted. The bailiffs who came to evict him found his body and there was a letter from the council behind the door saying that the eviction notice had been a mistake. So I'm aware of the results of the cuts and don't agree with the severity of the current benefits "sanctions" policy. I still couldn't bring myself to vote for Corbyn, May or any of the other bunch of shysters though.
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Re: The Maybot
[Re: AnnieMac]
#1609752
16/10/2017 12:59
16/10/2017 12:59
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,895 2011 and 2015 FCCUK F1 Champ.
bezzer
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,895
2011 and 2015 FCCUK F1 Champ.
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And you can put a stop to all the subsidised fine dining and boozing in the House of Commons, which costs US £millions a year. Corbyn's last recorded expenses claim was just £8! Compare this to others who work the system with second homes etc. Jacob Rees Mogg had his wife's country pile renovated at tax payer's expense. £billions could be saved and spent on things that matter. It is a myth that Labour always over-spends. Corbyn's heart is in the right place and if you can't see that you must be blind. My goodness, I can't tell if you're being serious! Are you just quoting all these 'facts' from the Momentum handbook? Rees-Mogg (who I think is an odious, out of touch bigot) didn't have his 'country pile' renovated at the tax payers expense. The house in question, Wentworth Woodhouse, is the ancestral home of his wife's Mother. Wentworth Woodhouse is the largest privately-owned house in Europe. It has just been acquired by the Wentworth Woodhouse Preservation Trust. One of the trustees is Lady Juliet Tadgell, Rees-Mogg’s mother-in-law. It was her family, the Fitzwilliams, who owned the vast mansion for over two hundred years until 1989. Get your facts right.
......My Boy...... (PB #7)
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