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New Tesla Roadster: 0-60mph in 1.9 seconds
#1611757
17/11/2017 22:24
17/11/2017 22:24
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,645
JKD
OP
Forum is my job
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OP
Forum is my job
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Posts: 4,645
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Re: New Tesla Roadster: 0-60mph in 1.9 seconds
[Re: Submariner]
#1611779
18/11/2017 10:51
18/11/2017 10:51
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,077 South Cambs
Barmybob
Hon Club Member: 003
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Hon Club Member: 003
Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,077
South Cambs
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Whilst I fully understand and accept the need to develop this technology I feel that Tesla marketing completely misses the point. Yes the figures are astounding but their vehicles offer no sense of occasion and limit convenience.
Car manufacturers could have produced cars to go ever faster but have for years they have exercised restraint. In the late 80's speed was bad. Group B was banned, F1 cars were made to go slower and the 150 mph limit was imposed on road cars. Manufacturers have taken small steps beyond those limits but they have rarely gone headline searching.
Tesla however go all out with performance grabbing headlines. But in reality what we all want from an all electric cars is some sense of occasion, driver involvement and convenience.
Gone Audi mad!
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Re: New Tesla Roadster: 0-60mph in 1.9 seconds
[Re: JKD]
#1611782
18/11/2017 11:46
18/11/2017 11:46
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,610 S. Wales. Way beyond my means
Gripped
Club member 1924
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Club member 1924
Forum is my job
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,610
S. Wales. Way beyond my means
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I'd be hard pressed to not feel a sense of occasion by hitting 60 in 1.9 seconds. It would be the first occasion where my bowels were left in a different time zone - albeit very quietly. Anyway, this is a sports car, so I guess it needs to be fast to grab the headlines to make people put posters of it on their wall and dream of owning one. For convenience, aren't they are bringing out a "people's car" shortly? I have heard that there are doubts over its likely success though, but I still think they are on the right lines. A bit like when the Prius first came out it was a left field choice, but now it is mainstream, particularly in London where every 3rd car seems to be a Prius.
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Re: New Tesla Roadster: 0-60mph in 1.9 seconds
[Re: Barmybob]
#1611796
18/11/2017 16:06
18/11/2017 16:06
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603 Corridor of Uncertainty
Jim_Clennell
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
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Tesla however go all out with performance grabbing headlines. But in reality what we all want from an all electric cars is some sense of occasion, driver involvement and convenience to be able to get from Point A to Point B without spending an hour at a grim motorway services when said points are more than about 100 miles apart.
Fixed that for you (based on data supplied by my Dad).
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Re: New Tesla Roadster: 0-60mph in 1.9 seconds
[Re: JKD]
#1611819
19/11/2017 07:43
19/11/2017 07:43
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,588 Berlin
barnacle
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
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Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
Forum Demigod
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Posts: 33,588
Berlin
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^ ^ ^ ^ This.
I don't give a toss about 'sense of occasion'. I have a coupe for that. But I also have a 120 mile daily commute, and regular 600-800 mile journeys (for example, on Friday I will be driving Hemel-Struan and back on Sunday; in a month Hemel-Berlin and back a fortnight later).
I want a car that will go at least four hundred miles on a charge, doesn't take twelve hours to charge at home, and doesn't take more than a quarter hour to charge in a service station. Call me picky...
I *like* the idea of electric cars. I think that burning fossil fuels is not a good idea, and all these batteries are a good place to put the excess we can get from wind and sun, and if we do burn fossil at a power station it is at least more efficiently done than in a petrol engine.
Powerful electric motors don't carry the efficiency penalty that IC engines do; they don't have reciprocating mass or pumping losses and their internal friction is extremely low; it does not significantly change the power usage per mile, or indeed, the cost of the power unit. Though acceleration will eat power, as in anything; travel at a constant speed for most effective energy use. Slipperiness of the car body is also significant; minimum drag is good for economy.
But there's no real reason *not* to put a more powerful motor in...
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Re: New Tesla Roadster: 0-60mph in 1.9 seconds
[Re: JKD]
#1611828
19/11/2017 10:30
19/11/2017 10:30
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783 In the coupe.
magooagain
Club Member 259
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Club Member 259
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In the coupe.
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What's the service intervals on say a full electric car? And I presume they would be cheaper.
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Re: New Tesla Roadster: 0-60mph in 1.9 seconds
[Re: Edinburgh]
#1611833
19/11/2017 13:08
19/11/2017 13:08
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,095 highlands
jimboy
Club Member 857
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Club Member 857
Forum is my life
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highlands
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And I presume they would be cheaper. What do you think they would charge? I wonder what current prices are!
I'm an old git & happy with it,most of the time
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Re: New Tesla Roadster: 0-60mph in 1.9 seconds
[Re: MeanRedSpider]
#1611873
20/11/2017 10:17
20/11/2017 10:17
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,302 Pontefract, West Yorkshire
andyps
Club member 1482
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Club member 1482
My job on the forum
Joined: Dec 2005
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Pontefract, West Yorkshire
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It is an indication only but there are limits to road tyre adhesion that I'm not sure 1.9 seconds will allow, partly based on the speeds set so far by various cars, Tesla included. Interesting to note that the Model S in this video does demonstrate some wheelspin off the line where it is demonstrably quicker than the Mclaren initially. The track was damp but to me it indicates that the tyres are always the limiting factor. Well, for Tesla it is tyres and money. Much as the technology improvements brought about by Tesla are to be applauded the business model is very shaky. No way would I consider a deposit on one of the new roadsters (if I could contemplate the cost) unless it was going to an Escrow account. It wouldn't take a high percentage of Model 3 deposit payers to ask for their money back for Tesla to fold.
Andy
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Re: New Tesla Roadster: 0-60mph in 1.9 seconds
[Re: andyps]
#1611884
20/11/2017 13:14
20/11/2017 13:14
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390 Essex
Trappy
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
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Posts: 5,390
Essex
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It is an indication only but there are limits to road tyre adhesion that I'm not sure 1.9 seconds will allow, partly based on the speeds set so far by various cars, Tesla included.
My thoughts exactly. Engineering Explained - What Is The Fastest 0-60 Time Possible?
F****** b****** thing...
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Re: New Tesla Roadster: 0-60mph in 1.9 seconds
[Re: Trappy]
#1611891
20/11/2017 14:17
20/11/2017 14:17
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390 Essex
Trappy
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
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Posts: 5,390
Essex
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I'm very skeptical of these claims. I collated data for the P85D and P90D a while back and the number post 100mph aren't especially impressive. I think the same will hold here. Tesla Model S P85D (2015) 0-30mph: 1.5 0-40mph: 2.1 0-50mph: 2.7 0-60mph: 3.6 0-70mph: 4.6 0-80mph: 5.8 0-90mph: 7.2 0-100mph: 8.9 0-110mph: 11.0 0-120mph: 13.7 0-130mph: 17.1 0-140mph: 22.0 0-150mph: 29.7 Calculated 60ft (18.3m): 2.03s Calculated 60ft (18.3m): 38.7mph Calculated 330ft (100.6m): 5.13s Calculated 330ft (100.6m): 74.4mph Calculated 1/8 Mile (201.1m): 7.79s Calculated 1/8 Mile (201.1m): 93.4mph Calculated 1000ft (301.7m): 10.1s Calculated 1000ft (301.7m): 105.7mph Calculated 0-400m: 12.03s Calculated 0-400m: 113.8mph Calculated 1/4 Mile (402.3m): 12.08s Calculated 1/4 Mile (402.3m): 113.9mph Calculated 0-1000m: 22.44s Calculated 0-1000m: 140.5mph Calculated Mile (1609.2m): 32.57s Calculated Mile (1609.2m): 161.5mph Tesla Model S P90D (2016) 0-30mph: 1.1 0-40mph: 1.6 0-50mph: 2.1 0-60mph: 2.8 0-70mph: 3.6 0-80mph: 4.6 0-90mph: 5.8 0-100mph: 7.1 0-110mph: 8.8 0-120mph: 10.9 0-130mph: 13.4 0-140mph: 16.9 0-150mph: 21.8 Calculated 60ft (18.3m): 1.75s Calculated 60ft (18.3m): 43mph Calculated 330ft (100.6m): 4.64s Calculated 330ft (100.6m): 80.2mph Calculated 1/8 Mile (201.1m): 7.12s Calculated 1/8 Mile (201.1m): 100.1mph Calculated 1000ft (301.7m): 9.29s Calculated 1000ft (301.7m): 112.3mph Calculated 0-400m: 11.12s Calculated 0-400m: 120.8mph Calculated 1/4 Mile (402.3m): 11.16s Calculated 1/4 Mile (402.3m): 121mph Calculated 0-1000m: 20.93s Calculated 0-1000m: 148.2mph Calculated Mile (1609.2m): 30.33s Calculated Mile (1609.2m): 167.4mph I can't find a data set for the P100D so I cobbled together the specs and put them through the calculator, ticking every box I have for a better launch. Inceidentally, the claimed 2.28s 0-60mph was red herring as they actually measured it using a the '1 foot rollout' Actual time was 2.54s... which is pathetic of course! Tesla P100D 0-10mph: 0.4 0-20mph: 0.78 0-30mph: 1.19 0-40mph: 1.62 0-50mph: 2.16 0-60mph: 2.84 0-70mph: 3.74 0-80mph: 4.82 0-90mph: 5.99 0-100mph: 7.29 0-110mph: 8.74 0-120mph: 10.47 0-130mph: 12.59 0-140mph: 15.24 0-150mph: 18.9 0-160mph: 24.93 0-170mph: 53.67 Top Speed (mph): 170.4 Top Speed (rpm): 9850 62.5-125mph: 8.42 60ft Time: 1.79 60ft Terminal: 43.1 330ft Time: 4.67 330ft Terminal: 78.6 1/8 Mile Time: 7.2 1/8 Mile Terminal: 99.4 1000ft Time: 9.3 1000ft Terminal: 113.4 1/4 Mile Time: 11.19 1/4 Mile Terminal: 123.7 0-400m Time: 11.15 0-400m Terminal: 123.5 1km Time: 20.66 1km Terminal: 153.6 3/4 Mile Time: 23.63 3/4 Mile Terminal: 158.4 1 Mile Time: 29.19 1 Mile Terminal: 164 2 Mile Time: 50.6 2 Mile Terminal: 169.9 Let's not forget that the claimed 691bhp of the P85 was tosh. The peak power of the two motors combined makes this if added together but running simultaneously, the figure was more like 460bhp max. Peak torque of 700-900lbs/ft at idle is why these cars dominate off the line. I'm sure this Roadster could manage just under 2.5s to 60, possibly even 4.5s to 100mph but I doubt it will pass the 1/4 in under 10 and it almost certainly won't reach 250mph. I even did a bit of reading on Tesla forums earlier and, as far as they are aware, a 200KWh motor would make this roadster even heavier than the P100, and likely be so big that it wouldn't even fit in the P100 let alone a smaller frame like this Roadster. I'm going to find out what I can about that one in the video above tonight
Last edited by Trappy; 20/11/2017 14:23.
F****** b****** thing...
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Re: New Tesla Roadster: 0-60mph in 1.9 seconds
[Re: MeanRedSpider]
#1611908
20/11/2017 21:46
20/11/2017 21:46
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,302 Pontefract, West Yorkshire
andyps
Club member 1482
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Club member 1482
My job on the forum
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,302
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
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The more I think about this video, the more flawed I think it is. Digital motors are able to respond much faster to detected loss of traction than any braking system. I agree with you about the speed of response, but that is still subject to the grip provided by the tyres which is almost certainly the limiting factor in acceleration, particularly in a road car with the requirement for road legal tyres. It is difficult to get definitive figures for anything other than road cars because anywhere else 0-60 isn't particularly significant. Some stats indicate that an F1 car takes about 1.6 seconds - 2wd obviously but with pretty large slicks, similar power to the Tesla and a lot less weight to get moving, although less low down torque due to the nature of a petrol engine. Such a shame this wasn't dry but even so if the Citroen rallycross car took 2.99 seconds to 60 with the power, lack of weight and 4wd it makes me sceptical of the claim made by Mush for the Roadster.
Andy
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Re: New Tesla Roadster: 0-60mph in 1.9 seconds
[Re: MeanRedSpider]
#1611919
21/11/2017 09:00
21/11/2017 09:00
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390 Essex
Trappy
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390
Essex
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The more I think about this video, the more flawed I think it is. Digital motors are able to respond much faster to detected loss of traction than any braking system. Magazines measuring 60-0 times do their best to not trigger ABS systems. When they start pulsing, it's a dud run and they go gain. The perfect time for each car would be when it stops purely under mechanical grip.
F****** b****** thing...
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Re: New Tesla Roadster: 0-60mph in 1.9 seconds
[Re: JKD]
#1611939
21/11/2017 16:44
21/11/2017 16:44
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852 Cambridge & Cotswolds
MeanRedSpider
Je suis un Coupé
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Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
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Yup - tyres will be the limiting factor but that’s why extracting the maximum from them is the absolute challenge. Brakes are deeply unsophisticated - especially when compared to a digital motor. If you don’t trigger the ABS then you’ve not extracted the maximum from all the tyres and if you do trigger the ABS then you’ve not extracted the maximum from all the tyres. You need to be slightly beyond the adhesion threshold of each one of the tyres.. These guys show what can be done by students on a budget (albeit a big one) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I-NCH8ct24UYes, they have slicks, a light car and big wings (the latter I don’t think give much in this case) but they’re also doing it in 0.4 of a second faster which, at this level of performance, is massive. Theyre also going to 62 (100kmh)
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Re: New Tesla Roadster: 0-60mph in 1.9 seconds
[Re: MeanRedSpider]
#1612011
23/11/2017 11:35
23/11/2017 11:35
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390 Essex
Trappy
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390
Essex
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The more I think about this video, the more flawed I think it is. Digital motors are able to respond much faster to detected loss of traction than any braking system. Is he on here?
F****** b****** thing...
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