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Re: 20vt Porto to do list....
[Re: Brilly1uk]
#1625063
17/09/2018 19:06
17/09/2018 19:06
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Brilly1uk
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Nice job Iain with the plastic paint spray. Love the wooden dash though - just needs a veneer!
Fiat Coupe 20VT Alfa Romeo Spider BMW X3
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Re: 20vt Porto to do list....
[Re: Brilly1uk]
#1625068
17/09/2018 19:22
17/09/2018 19:22
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Brilly1uk
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Has anyone got an idea how to go about replacing some of the rubber insulation, electrical wire hosing, rubber sockets, clips etc found on pretty much everything under the bonnet? 20 odd years have seen mine beginning to perish or crumble and as everything else gradually gets tidied it looks pretty conspicuous! Presumably a significant issue for all modern classics? Are there any (wiring loom?) specialists who stock new or as new replacements? I suspect nothing would be available from Fiat?
Fiat Coupe 20VT Alfa Romeo Spider BMW X3
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Re: 20vt Porto to do list....
[Re: Brilly1uk]
#1625107
18/09/2018 20:29
18/09/2018 20:29
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,418 Lightwater, Surrey
DaveG
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You need some sort of extraction tool to allow you to remove all the terminals (male or female spade connectors) from the connector "plug". The official tools are ridiculously expensive but you can get multi-purpose tools with a number of different "prongs" and all they do is push a small locking tab into the terminal so that it is no longer "locked" in position and you can pull the wire and connector out. I'm looking to get one myself, it's on the list of things to do...
I'd suggest making a list of the connectors you want to replace the rubber "boots" on, and then buy a stock of them in bulk (all the different sizes you want) to bring the unit cost down. Most of the connectors are AMP or "junior power timer".
Tackle one connector at a time, noting the colour and position of each wire in each block, perhaps checking them against the wiring and connector diagrams in the workshop manual for reference and future info. Release all the "spades" using your tool of choice (and retrieve the "seals" if fitted), then remove the knackered boots, replace insulation and replace boots with new items before reinserting the pins and seals (not forgetting to pull out the locking tabs first). Removing and replacing the spades should not cause any problems, but it's possible that a locking tab might break off, the spade might be in bad condition (corroded) or the wiring damaged, so that you might need to cut off a spade, cut back some insulation, and crimp a new spade on. There are many different sizes so you may want to buy in a stock of the most common sizes.
For the insulation around groups of wires (the loom) consider using self-amalgamating tape rather than ordinary For insulation tape, although I'm not convinced that the former lasts any better. The problem with insulation tape is that normally the ends come unstuck and then the unsticky bits work backwards from the ends. IIRC there are "end caps" that can be used to finish off a run of tape neatly?
That's what I'd start by doing anyway...
1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus 1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
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Re: 20vt Porto to do list....
[Re: Brilly1uk]
#1625127
19/09/2018 18:33
19/09/2018 18:33
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Brilly1uk
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Thanks all. I take there are no specialists in supplying refurbished wiring looms and the like? I would have thought this would have quite a market for post fuel injection cars?
Fiat Coupe 20VT Alfa Romeo Spider BMW X3
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Re: 20vt Porto to do list....
[Re: Brilly1uk]
#1625129
19/09/2018 19:12
19/09/2018 19:12
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Brilly1uk
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A visit to the bodyshop today to see progress so far. As suspected, it has confirmed my worries about the welding needed on the nearside. Broadly speaking it looks like a repeat of the offside! I mentioned the Coupe was supposedly originally galvanised which raised a laugh! A similar vintage A6 Allroad also in the shop, was said to have no rust at all. Presumably, Fiat had a different idea about galvanisation to Audi?
Fiat Coupe 20VT Alfa Romeo Spider BMW X3
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Re: 20vt Porto to do list....
[Re: Brilly1uk]
#1625136
19/09/2018 21:16
19/09/2018 21:16
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,418 Lightwater, Surrey
DaveG
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The galvanisation was only supposed to ensure the Coupe made it to 10 years old without completely rusting away like they did in the 1970s and 1980s. Considering that most Coupes around now have made it to 20 years does represent progress!
And how do you know the Audi hasn't lived a sheltered life compared to your Coupe? You could place two Coupes side by side, one looking the worse for wear and the other looking in great condition, all down to how they have been (mis)used and (not)cared for over the years...
1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus 1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
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Re: 20vt Porto to do list....
[Re: DaveG]
#1625177
20/09/2018 18:44
20/09/2018 18:44
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Brilly1uk
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The galvanisation was only supposed to ensure the Coupe made it to 10 years old without completely rusting away like they did in the 1970s and 1980s. Considering that most Coupes around now have made it to 20 years does represent progress!
And how do you know the Audi hasn't lived a sheltered life compared to your Coupe? You could place two Coupes side by side, one looking the worse for wear and the other looking in great condition, all down to how they have been (mis)used and (not)cared for over the years... True enough. My own A6, a few years ago, began to show some rust in the wheel arches after 200k. Undoubtedly caused by muck trapped between the wheel arch and wheel arch liners. For some reason, my Coupe seems to have deteriorated significantly in the last two or three years, despite it being mostly garaged over winter.
Fiat Coupe 20VT Alfa Romeo Spider BMW X3
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Re: 20vt Porto to do list....
[Re: barnacle]
#1625178
20/09/2018 18:46
20/09/2018 18:46
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Brilly1uk
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Re AMP rubber boots - they're getting a bit thin on the ground now; last time I looked AMP/TYCO had stopped making them, though they still made the connectors and pins. Candidate perhaps for a group buy or possible project?
Fiat Coupe 20VT Alfa Romeo Spider BMW X3
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Re: 20vt Porto to do list....
[Re: Brilly1uk]
#1625298
23/09/2018 20:13
23/09/2018 20:13
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,568 Berlin
barnacle
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
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Looks like there's a newer range out that should fit 2, 3, or 4 pin connectors (different part numbers, obviously): https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/automotive-connector-accessories/3662077/ is for the 3-pin connectors. It's not as nice (pretty) as the original covers from 25 years ago, but should do the trick. You can also obtain the pin removal tool so you can use original housings and wiring, replacing the often split covers.
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Re: 20vt Porto to do list....
[Re: barnacle]
#1625347
24/09/2018 21:47
24/09/2018 21:47
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Brilly1uk
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Looks like there's a newer range out that should fit 2, 3, or 4 pin connectors (different part numbers, obviously): https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/automotive-connector-accessories/3662077/ is for the 3-pin connectors. It's not as nice (pretty) as the original covers from 25 years ago, but should do the trick. You can also obtain the pin removal tool so you can use original housings and wiring, replacing the often split covers. Thanks Barnacle. Has anyone created a replacement/comparison list which might be useful for those thinking about setting out on this daunting task?
Fiat Coupe 20VT Alfa Romeo Spider BMW X3
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Re: 20vt Porto to do list....
[Re: Brilly1uk]
#1625374
25/09/2018 12:51
25/09/2018 12:51
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,418 Lightwater, Surrey
DaveG
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It's something I've been thinking about for a while. I've started to make an inventory of connectors in the engine compartment (others around the car have survived intact, it must be the engine heat that makes them split over time) and there is a mix of AMP Superseal and JPT (with boots) and Delphi MetriPack (no boots) plus others that I have come across. I'd also like a new boot for the brake fluid level switch, not sure where to look for that, I don't know the OE manufacturer.
I've got a cheap set of connector pin extractors on the way, first step is to see if I can get any of the pins out of any connectors...
The original "concertina" boots seem to be readily available on eBay, but perhaps not all sizes.
Last edited by DaveG; 25/09/2018 12:52. Reason: Started...
1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus 1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
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Re: 20vt Porto to do list....
[Re: Brilly1uk]
#1625378
25/09/2018 15:20
25/09/2018 15:20
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KBT
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mr.obsessed on ebay usually has boots, the type Neil has linked seem to be fitted on Alfa 145 and Lancia Thema where the coupe has a concertina type. Female superseal are easy, just needs a small screwdriver. Males require removal tool for the red clip. I think a big factor in the damage over time of engine bay boots is also the human maulage. Did the fluid reservior connector originally have a boot?
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Re: 20vt Porto to do list....
[Re: Brilly1uk]
#1625382
25/09/2018 17:11
25/09/2018 17:11
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,568 Berlin
barnacle
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
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Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
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Re: 20vt Porto to do list....
[Re: Brilly1uk]
#1625384
25/09/2018 17:58
25/09/2018 17:58
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KBT
Unregistered
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KBT
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I haven`t found a picture of a car with one yet. How about the screen wash pump connector? I have found 3waycomp on ebay very useful.
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Re: 20vt Porto to do list....
[Re: Brilly1uk]
#1625415
26/09/2018 14:02
26/09/2018 14:02
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,418 Lightwater, Surrey
DaveG
Club Treasurer Member 311
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Here's a picture of of the brake fluid level switch boot clicky (with some self-amalgamating tape wrapped around to keep it in one piece, and removed from reservoir whilst doing some work on the brakes) Here'e a collection of parts I bought well over 10 years when looking to make up a batch of Sykes ACR harnesses (I still have all the parts, I ought to make them up and shift them on ). And the all important rubber boots - note that I got them from Fiat! And here's how a typical AMP Superseal connector goes together with female connector with male pins and male connector and female pinsThere are 3 sizes for the terminal pins and the little seals (yellow, green and red). I suppose it's always possible that Fiat might still have stock of some of the boots, I will investigate that along with other sources whilst making up my inventory/shopping list...
1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus 1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
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Re: 20vt Porto to do list....
[Re: DaveG]
#1625432
26/09/2018 20:32
26/09/2018 20:32
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,162 Glos
Brilly1uk
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Here's a picture of of the brake fluid level switch boot clicky (with some self-amalgamating tape wrapped around to keep it in one piece, and removed from reservoir whilst doing some work on the brakes) Here'e a collection of parts I bought well over 10 years when looking to make up a batch of Sykes ACR harnesses (I still have all the parts, I ought to make them up and shift them on ). And the all important rubber boots - note that I got them from Fiat! And here's how a typical AMP Superseal connector goes together with female connector with male pins and male connector and female pinsThere are 3 sizes for the terminal pins and the little seals (yellow, green and red). I suppose it's always possible that Fiat might still have stock of some of the boots, I will investigate that along with other sources whilst making up my inventory/shopping list... That was excellent foresight DaveG! It would be great to know we could still get hold of these or fit for purpose alternatives?
Fiat Coupe 20VT Alfa Romeo Spider BMW X3
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Re: 20vt Porto to do list....
[Re: Brilly1uk]
#1625550
29/09/2018 18:34
29/09/2018 18:34
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Brilly1uk
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Hopefully not Simon - I think I have just been a bit unlucky! When I first acquired the car I had it looked over to see what the rust situation was like before deciding to invest too much, and was given a fairly decent bill of health. Perhaps father time has just caught up with mine? However moving forward - breaking it down into different steps has hopefully helped make significant progress. I was hoping this time around, I would get all the major cosmetics done, but as the nearside rust refurb proved as needy as the offside, the front and rear bumper repaint will have to wait!
Fiat Coupe 20VT Alfa Romeo Spider BMW X3
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Re: 20vt Porto to do list....
[Re: Gunzi]
#1625552
29/09/2018 18:38
29/09/2018 18:38
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Brilly1uk
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Looks like some reasonable surgery to correct the rot, post up once all complete Thanks Gunzi - will do!
Fiat Coupe 20VT Alfa Romeo Spider BMW X3
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