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Webbo's & Mark_K's rolling road figures.....
#489263
21/11/2007 19:13
21/11/2007 19:13
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Mark_K
Unregistered
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Mark_K
Unregistered
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Webbo and I have got virtually the same engine mods apart from me having a H&S 2.75"(or maybe 2.5") DP and I ported my manifold too last time I took it off. Webbo has a GTiR Turbo and I have an Autointegrale Hybrid, which Benny managed to find out is the same spec as the GTiR. Hybrid turbo Pro Alloy FMIC Pro Alloy SIP Apexi Filter Gtec2 Greddy Profec b II De-cat Supersprint or Peco exhaust Walbro Fuel pump mods too We both went on the same rolling road at the same time(within an hour) and the results are below with both of our results being added to the same graph for a comparison. http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k20/Webbo/random%20car/WebboMark_K.jpgWe've discussed things over PM's and come up with some comments, but we'll see what other peoples thoughts are about the comparison. So, what do you reckon?! Cheers, Mark & Webbo
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Re: Webbo's & Mark_K's rolling road figures.....
[Re: ]
#489317
21/11/2007 20:13
21/11/2007 20:13
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295 Sandhurst
Begbie
Ex El Presidente
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Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295
Sandhurst
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Well you're both running different boost pressures and you have a different downpipe, so the results will be different.
But it also shows that your engine is breathing better due to the larger bore downpipe and can make the same power with less boost
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
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Re: Webbo's & Mark_K's rolling road figures.....
[Re: Freddan72]
#489323
21/11/2007 20:21
21/11/2007 20:21
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MattW
Unregistered
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MattW
Unregistered
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Webbo's looks like its running lean off boost, or is that fuelling still OK?
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Re: Webbo's & Mark_K's rolling road figures.....
[Re: ]
#489352
21/11/2007 20:52
21/11/2007 20:52
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Mark_K
Unregistered
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Mark_K
Unregistered
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Both using a Greddy Profec b II, updated the list now.
We both have max torque of 265lb/ft & max bhp of 280bhp.
On the road driving comparison, the cars are virtually identical, Webbo's is quicker than mine at higher rpm as my boost drops quite a lot.
I think that the better spool up on mine is more to do with my Greddy settings than anything else as I have my set gain(I think it is) set at the same as my actuator and Webbo's is at 1.15bar, which it's supposed to be(close as possible to max boost without spiking). This might be why I have better spool up, but worse high rpm boost.
Webbo's done a great job with creating the graphs and it shows for a good comparison I think.
It has made me wonder about the turbo's, but Benny(who has the same as me from Autointegrale) contacted keith and they are the same spec as the GTiR that Barbz does/did at Torque Italia. Looking at the boost though on mine, it looks to have more charactistics of a superspool, but as I say, I think that's more to do with the Greddy settings.
Webbo's does look lean at higher rpm, but I think mine would do the same if I was holding the boost, but mine drops off quite severely, so it's slightly richer.
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Re: Webbo's & Mark_K's rolling road figures.....
[Re: ]
#489363
21/11/2007 21:10
21/11/2007 21:10
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Webbo
Unregistered
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Webbo
Unregistered
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It is really interesting to see the huge difference in the RR results, especially as there is really nothing in it on the road - tested over quite a few sessions now Mine does feel quite laggy, but when driving hard it stays pretty much on boost so the problem is hidden. I can only guess the late spool is because I haven't ported the manifold. I will also test the wastegate to make sure it is sealing properly and not leaking early boost pressure. I have changed the Greddy to Mark's recommendation but to be honest it is hard to tell if it has made much difference without repeating another RR session.
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Re: Webbo's & Mark_K's rolling road figures.....
[Re: ]
#489445
21/11/2007 23:08
21/11/2007 23:08
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MattW
Unregistered
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MattW
Unregistered
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Mark, I meant webbo's looks lean at low RPMs, not high. I have a very similar spec to both of you. When mine was on a RR then the boost graph showed that I wasnt getting full boost until 4250rpm, and it wasnt even on the chart at 3000rpm. On the road (looking at my boost gauge) it's already at 1 bar by 3000rpm and full boost soon after.
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Re: Webbo's & Mark_K's rolling road figures.....
[Re: ]
#489535
22/11/2007 01:34
22/11/2007 01:34
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davidub
Unregistered
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davidub
Unregistered
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I would say that for both of you, your boost and subsequently torque is coming in waaaaaaay too late. Maybe it's your boost controller settings?
Also, both of you seem to be running too lean, should you not be running mid 11s midrange?
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Re: Webbo's & Mark_K's rolling road figures.....
[Re: ]
#489548
22/11/2007 01:59
22/11/2007 01:59
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,671 Newport,south wales
Benny
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,671
Newport,south wales
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I'll add my two cents for whats it worth I agree with davidub as you runing a fair bit lean, realisticaly in the 11's As for your boost coming in very laaaaaaaaaaate that will be your EBC settings On my previous setup, which is simlar i use to get 1.35 at 3100 Ben
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Re: Webbo's & Mark_K's rolling road figures.....
[Re: Benny]
#489564
22/11/2007 02:20
22/11/2007 02:20
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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Re: Webbo's & Mark_K's rolling road figures.....
[Re: ]
#489690
22/11/2007 04:38
22/11/2007 04:38
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Mark_K
Unregistered
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Mark_K
Unregistered
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I'm not sure about Webbo's, but I am pretty sure I get my full boost(according to my Greddy anyway) before 3000rpm, but it doesn't show up as that for RR graph which is a bit odd. Also, both Webbo and I will be getting checked again in the not too distant future as we've got Gtec2 high fuel chips either in or to go in. If we've both got the wiring mods and Walbro's, what else can we do to get a bit richer apart from the obvious re-map, which again, we will both be getting in early 2008. Cheers, Mark
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Re: Webbo's & Mark_K's rolling road figures.....
[Re: ]
#489734
22/11/2007 06:30
22/11/2007 06:30
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davidub
Unregistered
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davidub
Unregistered
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I'm not sure about Webbo's, but I am pretty sure I get my full boost(according to my Greddy anyway) before 3000rpm, but it doesn't show up as that for RR graph which is a bit odd. Also, both Webbo and I will be getting checked again in the not too distant future as we've got Gtec2 high fuel chips either in or to go in. If we've both got the wiring mods and Walbro's, what else can we do to get a bit richer apart from the obvious re-map, which again, we will both be getting in early 2008. Cheers, Mark OK, so it's the RR skewing your results. IMHO, I don't think you need a Walbro or wiring mod for the power you're running ... I guess it's the chip you've got that has you runing lean
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Re: Webbo's & Mark_K's rolling road figures.....
[Re: ]
#489843
22/11/2007 16:27
22/11/2007 16:27
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Webbo
Unregistered
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Webbo
Unregistered
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Mark - I changed the Greddy Start Gain to a lower value as you suggested. In 3rd (same as the RR session), I now definitely hit full boost before 3500rpm. I need to go on a longer drive though and swap the SG back and forwards to check that it is really making a difference because it didn't feel that different. I'm surprised that the RR showed my max boost after 4000rpm, as I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case on the road even before I messed about with the SG. If my car was hot on the rollers, would it back the ignition off to such an extent that it would delay the spoolup by 500 rpm? I noticed it was hot on the rollers (40-45 degrees), which is why Charlie attacked it with a water bottle
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Re: Webbo's & Mark_K's rolling road figures.....
[Re: Flea]
#489856
22/11/2007 16:47
22/11/2007 16:47
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Mark_K
Unregistered
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Mark_K
Unregistered
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Was this at Surrey Rolling Road? It certainly was. Mark
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Re: Webbo's & Mark_K's rolling road figures.....
[Re: ]
#489871
22/11/2007 17:16
22/11/2007 17:16
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405 Castle Combe
Flea
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
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Try comparing your results to the SRR day. The boost does come in a lot later on the rollers, so I wouldn't worry too much, as long as it's the same as everyone else.
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Re: Webbo's & Mark_K's rolling road figures.....
[Re: Flea]
#489893
22/11/2007 17:43
22/11/2007 17:43
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MattW
Unregistered
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MattW
Unregistered
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maybe the pressure sensor they use is very slow to respond, mine was the same, didnt show full boost until 4250rpm on the graph, but on the road its at full boost just after 3000rpm
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Re: Webbo's & Mark_K's rolling road figures.....
[Re: ]
#489962
22/11/2007 19:08
22/11/2007 19:08
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Webbo
Unregistered
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Webbo
Unregistered
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Just adjusted some Greddy settings. Now getting full boost ~1.3 bar at a shade over 3000rpm. That's better but it needs a gain of 22% which is higher than most people run I think, previously I had it on 16% and was on full boost nearer to 3500. No real overboost/spiking even at 22% though Changing the Set Gain (I previously incorrectly called it Start Gain) from 0.4 to 1.2 made absolutely no difference! The terms are crap, Set, Gain and Set Gain, FFS why cant it be simpler!
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Re: Webbo's & Mark_K's rolling road figures.....
[Re: ]
#490620
23/11/2007 18:12
23/11/2007 18:12
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Civic_Legend
Unregistered
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Civic_Legend
Unregistered
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It would be very interesting to see if you could see noticeable differences in side-by-side performance if you started at, say 20 mph in 3rd gear and just did a roll on. That SHOULD highlight the difference in spool up between the setups.
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Re: Webbo's & Mark_K's rolling road figures.....
[Re: ]
#490676
23/11/2007 19:12
23/11/2007 19:12
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Mark_K
Unregistered
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Mark_K
Unregistered
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It's identical performance when up and running, but interestingly enough I mentioned to Webbo earlier on a PM we should try it side by side from 1500rpm and see what the difference is.
I lose boost higher up the rpm, but I get better spool up, so it should even up later on up the mph unless I short shift a bit so to not allow my boost leak(or whatever it is) to be noticable whilst driving.
I think when we've done the 40-100(but foot down at 30) timings before it's been pretty close, but we've never done it side by side. I think timings were late 8's or so when we did it previously.
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Re: Webbo's & Mark_K's rolling road figures.....
[Re: ]
#490743
23/11/2007 20:48
23/11/2007 20:48
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davidub
Unregistered
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davidub
Unregistered
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Just adjusted some Greddy settings. Now getting full boost ~1.3 bar at a shade over 3000rpm. That's better but it needs a gain of 22% which is higher than most people run I think, previously I had it on 16% and was on full boost nearer to 3500. No real overboost/spiking even at 22% though Changing the Set Gain (I previously incorrectly called it Start Gain) from 0.4 to 1.2 made absolutely no difference! The terms are crap, Set, Gain and Set Gain, FFS why cant it be simpler! What gear are you measuring that in? It still seems very late for your turbo! I'm surprised changing set gain didn't make any difference.
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Re: Webbo's & Mark_K's rolling road figures.....
[Re: ]
#490768
23/11/2007 21:20
23/11/2007 21:20
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Webbo
Unregistered
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Webbo
Unregistered
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It was in third. Full boost by just over 3000rpm doesnt seem that late to me?
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Re: Webbo's & Mark_K's rolling road figures.....
[Re: ]
#490793
23/11/2007 21:45
23/11/2007 21:45
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Mark_K
Unregistered
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Mark_K
Unregistered
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It still seems very late for your turbo! Not really looking at the results here. Pretty similar to me with Webbo's being similar to Phil's who also has the GTiR Turbo, mine is just about 500rpm earlier. Cheers, Mark
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Re: Webbo's & Mark_K's rolling road figures.....
[Re: ]
#490847
23/11/2007 23:15
23/11/2007 23:15
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MattW
Unregistered
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MattW
Unregistered
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mine was the same, full boost just over 3000rpm, but my RR graph didnt show that.
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Re: Webbo's & Mark_K's rolling road figures.....
[Re: ]
#491156
24/11/2007 15:54
24/11/2007 15:54
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davidub
Unregistered
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davidub
Unregistered
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I'm a little surprised, as that's more or less the same as my RSR ... would have though the GTiR would have shown peak boost before then?
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Re: Webbo's & Mark_K's rolling road figures.....
[Re: ]
#491157
24/11/2007 15:57
24/11/2007 15:57
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Mark_K
Unregistered
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Mark_K
Unregistered
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I saw your RSR on the same thread I posted above, it certainly appears to be very quick spool up for a GT turbo!
Do you have headwork or ported manifold etc?!
Mark
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Re: Webbo's & Mark_K's rolling road figures.....
[Re: ]
#491160
24/11/2007 16:12
24/11/2007 16:12
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davidub
Unregistered
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davidub
Unregistered
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I saw your RSR on the same thread I posted above, it certainly appears to be very quick spool up for a GT turbo!
Do you have headwork or ported manifold etc?!
Mark The manifold is ported, H&S downpipe, 3" induction etc... but no headwork (not yet anyway!). Actually, on my graphs on that thread, I had a boost leak (and a few other things) which was delaying boost by a few hundred rpm :mad:. I've a funny feeling that Highwayman might have had a problem also with his results on that thread (think it might have been a stretched throttle cable or something). Anyway, your results look good, I'm just saying that you might be able to improve your spool up on your existing setup, if you want to! If it feels good on the road though, it mightn't be worth the bother.
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Re: Webbo's & Mark_K's rolling road figures.....
[Re: ]
#491810
26/11/2007 04:29
26/11/2007 04:29
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nrenz123
Unregistered
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nrenz123
Unregistered
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Just out of interest what are your full greddy settings?
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Re: Webbo's & Mark_K's rolling road figures.....
[Re: ]
#491896
26/11/2007 14:32
26/11/2007 14:32
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Mark_K
Unregistered
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Mark_K
Unregistered
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Mine is something like:
Gain 16% Set Gain 0.65bar Set 52%
I think Webbo's is similar, but he has Set Gain at 1.2bar.
He'll be along shortly to confirm though I expect.
Cheers,
Mark
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