Can anybody please interpret my power run results as i dont really know what im looking at i just know they were a lot less than i expected

Thanks guys

james

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v459/monktoncombe/powerrun.jpg

i can't even read it lol, sorry...

I'll try and make a clearer copy. I'm no good at this stuff sorry

slightly easier to read copy:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v459/monktoncombe/graph.jpg

what are your mods?

Fuel pump battery feed & 3.8bar fpr
Pro alloy style fmic from group buy
62 trim option 3 hybrid turbo
200 cell sports cat
blueflame cat-back exhaust
ramair carbon induction kit on a straight pipe
flea map using ecu control on uprated solenoid

...

Cant explain why, but I would be dissapointed with that power on those mods. Sorry.

yeah i know...my face dropped i can tell you that!

Different dyno equals different results and the intake temps are up, due to it being warmer out,

I would'nt read anything into it to be hounest.

Ben

flea and i both expected that i would be in the 29xbhp range i know all dynos will read slightly different but a drop of 23bhp on my last run?...and this time i have a bit more ignition advance and boost pressure + the 3.8bar fpr and sports cat...kind of feels like im 30bhp+ down on what i thought i would see...all the runs he did were pretty equal...within a few bhp and lb/ft. He kept saying im running too rich but i dont have a clue

How long did the run take? Might seam an odd question but if there is not sufficient load on the dyno you get less power. I have been to dynos where the run takes only 10-15 seconds others where its closer to 30 seconds. You may see more boost on the road higher up the range and a bit more power.

he seemed to run it at a set revs for a bit in i guess 3rd and then he went into i guess 4th and put his foot to the floor to the red line. It was hard to see exactly what he was doing but it didnt take too long for each run. I would guess 20 seconds per run but its hard to say. It was in a closed unit and i stood outside watching a display monitor on the wall with clocks showing rpm etc

The boost is higher than it should be. Im pretty sure i see 1.45-1.5bar peak where im pretty sure its supposed to be 1.3bar peak...

Oil temperature 22 deg? Surely not?

i wouldnt have thought my oil temp would have been at 22 deg it was at about 55deg when i drove it into the workshop a few minutes before...

Well at least it's more powerful than a Corsa with a Peco. Just think how disappointed these guy's get

yes mate im laughing at the corsa guys although they laugh back when they see my mods and what ive spent...either flea's dyno is too optimistic or austec's is sleepy ive sent copies of the info to leighton and im waiting to see what he thinks about it...

What have you fixed on the car?

It looks like it could be a little rich at the redline, although that could just be the RR's sensor.

The boost seems to be fluctuating quite a bit too, but again , that could be a sensor on the RR

well matt i had a stupid fse power boost valve the first time i went to leighton and my maf was failing. This time i went back with a 3.8bar fpr in the rail, he fitted another maf and i chucked in a sports cat a few days before for good measure...

Ah i see. Certainly nothing to worry about from what i can see on the graph-however i'm no expert. I think it's just variancies in rolling roads. 20bhp differences are quite common.

its mostly the principle...numbers mean nothing but its nice to have them to look at...especially when ive upgraded and spent as i have

I would try a different RR?

Is it right that you loose 60bhp between engine power & power to the wheels? seems rather alot.....

Usualy arround 30bhp I think I'm sure someone will come along and correct me.

It doesn't make much sense James, with your spec at 1.4bar holding 1.2bar to the redline, your engine would have to be a little poorly to produce such power. The torque curve is the correct shape with good fast spool, but peaking at 258lbs/ft is too low and it is this that ultimately results in reduced horsepower.

A couple of points. The graph redlines at 7000rpm which suggests they didn't calibrate the dyno rpm quite right as your limiter comes in at 6800rpm. It's a minor detail but worth noting.

In terms of the fueling, the trace is exactly as I set it and perfectly correct, but on the dyno is has been measured slightly richer than on the road.



This is not unusual due to different loads and even lambda sensors, however it wouldn't have any significant impact on the power.

I assume it still feels the same on the road i.e. pulling strongly? Those results would suggest you have a Stage 1 standard car, yet there is absolute no question that your car is quite a bit faster than that and typical of your setup compared to many other Coupes.

Just a note to add about that. If the dyno is calibrated then the power and the torque WILL cross at exactly 5252rpm. From what I can see on your graph they cross a little above 5252rpm which suggests to me that the dyno is slightly out of calibration. Although from what I can see it is only a small amount not anywhere near the 200rpm out from 7000rpm to 6800rpm if that is where the readline is meant to be. I doubt they will change your readouts but as Flea said worth noting. Can you scan in a clearer copy?

To be sure of power you could try another Dyno. Try a Dyno Dynamics one in SHOOT_6F mode. If you fancy driving near me I can put you on one for a cheap price.

James you could pop along to the Kent dyno day on May 2nd (Sun), there's about a dozen coupes going so good for comparison too.

Yeah ill take that into consideration about trying another dyno...i mean it just doesnt seem right if the fuelling and boost are correct that im showing such poor figures. I would be more willing to doubt the dyno than flea's figures because he has tuned many cars and they have been tested on many dynos. The car still feels as good as ever. There is no hesitation, no drop in power that i can feel and it was full of bp ultimate just as it was when it was mapped. Ive only just greased up and ajusted my front brakes (because they were very poor) so they arent binding, i had a new clutch 1k miles ago and that hasnt slipped at all yet...so i really dont see any reason for the car to be held back


The trouble is ive never been to a rolling road before so i dont know what to look out for. The guy who runs austec says he has been doing rolling road tuning for 25yrs so i trusted him of course...but now im very suspicious about the equipment he is using as it either has to be the machine or the car...and im very confident about my car

My work schedule makes it hard to find time and im working on the 2nd im afraid but i will take that dyno dynamics advice as the sussex performance centre is just 10miles away from me and they have one. Ill phone them and have a word today

update: guess i wont be going there they have just gone out of business!

Austec have been famous in the past for apparently inflated figures, but this was with TVR's where they had a massive vested interest (check PH). I would not trust their dyno figures and that is just my opinion, if a dyno run is going to be done properly then that's exactly how it should be done - "properly", I don't think it has been in this case.

Get it on a dyno dynamics in shoot 6F mode as has already been stated, then you'll have a graph that compares to many other Coupes that have been ran on the same dyno, albeit in different conditions. The only variables that can then skew your figures are minor such as tyre pressure / intake temp or more impacting how tightly the car is strapped down / incorrect gear / boost building etc. Failing that then just stick with Fleas local RR, as again there have been many Coupes on this dyno.

I've said it before but it's best to stick with just one dyno (trusted) then just keep going back and using it. By doing this you will always have a base point to start from to compare future mods. whilst you may/may not like the actual figures produced what it will do is give you a percentage increase on the mods applied.

Jules.

Turboj here is a better copy of the graph:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v459/monktoncombe/POWERRUN32_crop.jpg

I can't see anything wrong with any of those traces (BTW, its REALLY good to be able to see fly power, wheel power, torque, AFR, boost and drag, all on the same graph - never seen that before)

As Leighton says, the AFR trace is typical of his mapping - its certainly not rich, just safe.

Boost is a bit wobbly and its also a bit high

My guess is that its simply a different dyno on a different day - its very common to have 20+ bhp differences between rollers

The traces might be fine but we don't know other variables that are inputted such as gear used, generic modes etc

Also, have they ran the car until it's limiter has cut in or have they lifted off at 7000rpm? If it's the latter then the dyno might be out of calibration by more than 200rpm. I am not sure this will affect where the curves cross, it will more likely decrease the power and torque curves.

it was just my luck that leighton's normal dyno was closed when i went for my remap...it would have been a fair comparison to the first set of figures i attained in october...

Well its a good sign that whats showing on the graph is correct it would be nice to have the figures to do justice to the condition and mods ive got on my engine

He ran it until it bounced off the limiter...

What is strange is that i dont remember him going to the back of the car to strap it down...he seemed to concentrate all his efforts on the nsf wheel area...my friend steve came with me and if he is reading this id appreciate confirmation of this...i may have missed other stuff...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v459/monktoncombe/007.jpg

i dont remember him doing much at the rear to be honest. he stuck something in the exhaust and strapped the front down for sure..... not sure about the rear.

what was a little odd and nothing to do with the results was i asked if i could video the run. he said yeah sure, no problem. well... then he kinds pulled down a shutter and locked us out.

Yeah but Stevie we had that little window we could almost see through...

You don't need to strap the rear

So just a strap somewhere at the NSF is sufficient?

Also is it normal to have the ABS light on afterwards? It turned off when we started driving out of the garage

No and Maybe.

Depends what perameters bring on the ABS light, many will come on with the fronts doing 100 and the rears 0 but will need a cycle to reset.

I.E ford require an ignition cycle and over 7 mph speed on all 4 wheels. I used to turn on the ABS light all the time on two poster ramps.

But i DON'T know fiats ABS system, so may not be similar.

Steve

Oh I see...

To me the data and results looks genunine. I think people are looking to pick holes because it didn't make par with what it "should have made".

Surely you should get the same or even better figures with a standard set up though after a flea map ?

Every car Is different but with that set up it should be least 280bhp

Last time I made 284bhp and 293lb/ft on one run and 279bhp and 279lb/ft on the next run. This time I have a better fuel regulator and a sports cat...bit more boost and ignition advance...I expected to make at least the same again!

it looks like a dodgy dyno theres a massive difference between the whp and flywheel power 60hp on a fwd car is far to much

my r32 gtr had a 60hp difference between 4whp and flywheel hp looking at the whp your car should have about 230hp 240hp at the flywheel

did they change the fueling? it might be running far to rich now causing the power loss does the car feel any slower? with the mods your cars got it should be 250+ whp

These are logical systems, if something doesn't look right then it isn't. There are really only two answers here, either the car isn't running right or the dyno is off.

I say this from an advantaged position whereby I get to drive these cars all the time. James's car certainly fits the profile and drives according to his setup. I am also privy to a lot more data and this alone dictates that it has considerable more power than a standard Stage 1 car. Furthermore, given that MAHA uses a coastdown method we can be sure that there are no transmission issues i.e. binding brakes, this would show up quite clearly in the wheel power.

If James is happy the car is running as good as ever, then I am happy that it is right where it needs to be regardless.

does the car feel faster now, if it does I wouldnt worry to much about the dyno figures

of course if you can get the car on the same dyno then regardless of whether it is optimistic or not you will be able to see how the changes you have made have affected the power and torque

if fleas telling you your car is faster than a stage 1 then it will be regardless of what the dyno says

I'm happy the car is running right and Leighton did a very good job it pulls well and gives me a nice surprise sometimes when I put my foot down. Everything is always as it was and was very surprised to be so disappointed yesterday I mean I need to move a few places up on leighton's league table I'm going either get down to Leighton's dyno or I'll visit 'enhanced performance' in bolney once they have installed their dyno dynamics rolling road...as I said before numbers are just numbers but just out of principle it's nice to have confirmation on paper...if you know what I mean

If it was me and the RR graphs showed those figures after all those mods..........I would still be peed off even if it felt like it could fly at Mach3 and orbit the earth.....running on orange juice

Haha you understand me! even worse when you know they can't be true!

I'm booked in at leighton's dyno next Tuesday

Level playing field now my son.....that's where a lot of people here have had their dyno's done.

Yeah so fingers crossed. I'll be very confused if that dyno tells me that my car is making less than it did last time I was there as the car should be a bit better in every way now

i would go by the lower figures your insurance will be less lol

only if you tell them

Well if they work out my premium at £1 per bhp I don't mind that either way

Indeed, most ABS lights come on after a Dyno visit, especially FWD and RWD vehicles.

60bhp coastdown loss, hmmmm lovely if you want 'pub' flywheel figures!

No need to strap the rear of the Coupé down as it's FWD.

"60bhp coastdown loss, hmmmm lovely if you want 'pub' flywheel figures!"

sorry I don't understand...

Every dyno run I've ever had has come up with the same coastdown losses. 60bhp seems about right at the rev limit, with about 45bhp at 6,000rpms.

60bhp is too high IMHO.

Ok

Mine is 62HP Dyno Dynamics Shoot_6F , IMO 35HP is too low.

No point even mentioning Dyno Dynamics losses Jason, they don't measure this via coastdown but instead add a fixed percentage loss regardless so it means nothing.

James, your losses last time were 48bhp which translates to 17%.

Yeah I didn't have my printout to hand so tried to remember

Spot on Leight.