Hi chaps,

I tested a 20VT+ a couple of days ago. It's a 2001 manufactured (according to the registration document, though I thought they stopped production in 2000?) and 2005 registered car with 18k miles on the clock.

I placed a deposit because the car seemed really clean.

However, my test drive was a little underwhelming, and on reflection, I guess I am now wondering whether the car isn't running at its peak.

I have forgotten what a completely standard 20VT is supposed to feel like. In first and second gears, it pulled strong enough with my foot to the floor, but there was no perceptible "kick in the back" and no significant "horizon rushing forward" feeling, if you know what I mean.

The power delivery was altogether pretty linear and uneventful. My daily driver is a 115bhp 1.6 hatch, so it's not like my perspective is skewed.

I test drove one other car that was a bit of a monster - it was apparently standard save for a 3" downpipe, but I doubt it, because there would be zero drama until 3500rpm, at which point all hell would break loose and it would dash towards the horizon.

This car I just tested was nothing like that.

Factors to consider: the current owner (first and only owner thus far) is a middle-aged guy who I think cruises around in it and hardly stresses the engine much, if at all. There's too much oil in the car, probably about a litre. The coolant is a little rusty, but nothing sludgy or gunky.

I know this is all a bit subjective, but I was just wondering whether those of you with standard 20VTs can chip in with your observations.

Thanks!

Hmm i have come from a 300bhp subaru 1996 to my 3rd coop this one been standard bar a peco exhaust.
its got me wondering if its standard now as it seems really fast for 220bhp there is lag until 3000rpm then all at once and picks up again late on.
ive looked through all the paperwork and receipts galore but no evidence of anything...?
car is standard throughout no boost gauge so im assuming it is standard but it shocked me on how well it gets past 60

are you sure the EBV isn't sticking?

lol.
will find out more when the gauge is fit this weekend.

Factory boost is 1 bar. Check the calibration on the gauge first to ensure it is reading correctly (mine was out by 0.1 bar on a calibrated pressure line).

On a standard ECU map, it should overboost to 1.2 bar before dropping to 1 bar and tailing off towards the red-line.

standard 20vt Performance - FCCUK

yea will check asap.

As I remember it, the standard Coupe is all show and no go until 3.000 rpm at which point the turbo kicks in a gives you some overboost push in the back. I've driven quite some Coupe's now and most tuned examples actually are a lot more linear. Standard, as soon as you are above 4.500 rpm there should be virtually no lag at all. If you hit the pedal, it goes. And if you have the standard air filter, the engine will feel strangled over 6.500 rpm. A K&N panel filter already makes it breathe more freely and you'll be hitting the limiter a bit more often. So from your description, I would say: yes, it needs some more 'push'.

Then I read the rest of your story and I've told this on here before: the Coupe needs a swift driver. I've done a tankfull of eco-driving when my car was around 12.000 miles young. I stayed below 2.300 rpm at ALL times. Its fuel consumption was amazingly low, but after that week it took me a full tank again to 'blow out' the engine: it really wouldn't pull at all. So yes... if it's been driven by some old driver, I would consider taking a look at the condition of the spark plugs and try to 'loosen' the engine again by giving it some revs. Needless to say I never tried the eco-driving again. It really got me worried it would stay asleep forever.

It's probably got a boost leak, so it's not boosting to 1 bar. Or else, something that would affect the boost (eg EBV). Mine was boosting to .7 bar when I picked it up, and there was no shove in the back. A little less boost makes heck of a difference. As long as the car feels otherwise okay (no hesitation, smoke or similar) I wouldn't worry about it too much, it'll probably be a relatively simple fix.

Got to agree with the above,

I rarely push the car these days, due to living in the city, but...

although it seems a little sluggish at first after a few miles it seems to wake up

then.... brace yourself

To be honest, my car felt much much better when I was regularly travelling on country roads and stretching its legs.

IMO cars "need" to be driven hard from time to time to keep them running right, I remember my friend borrowing his dads Passat diesel taxi for a night, it got a proper workout laying down lines of soot from the exhaust etc, but...

His dad asked the next day what we had done as it felt so much more lively then before

Thanks guys - these were my thoughts too.

The engine was silky smooth, sounded good, no smoke etc - just a bit underwhelming in the performance department.

I figured that even if something was wrong, it would be a relatively simple fix. Put in some good fuel, new plugs, clean out the EBV, check the lines and boost, and then give it a good kicking and I think it should be just fine.

Cheers

Was it you that crashed a coupé about five years ago, it span about and ended up in some gravel? or am I making stuff up again

Good memory!

I misjudged an overtake (did not take into account that the diesel Mondeo I was sedately overtaking, who was driving very slowly up to that point, would accelerate hard to deliberately block the manoeuvre!), and found myself face to face with an oncoming car.

I bailed to the right, hit gravel and ended up on a grassy verge after some bouncing around. No spinning or knocks.

Externally, the car was still in fine condition, but I bent the front chassis rail too much by hitting a rock underneath.

Rog couldn't bend it back, so he ended up breaking it for me. Someone here probably has my engine, so the Coupe lives on!

The standard car should give you a shove in the back lower down the rev range and then again higher up when accelerating hard, enough to grip hold of the wheel or torque steer around the carriageway a bit (without the strut brace). Sounds like the EBV is shot.

check the throttle cable first - many 20vts are under-performing simply because the throttle cable is stretched, resulting in a partial throttle opening

Yeah mine was stretched, got full throttle now !

Your car may be chipped, a Gtech chip can be bought from Graeme on here for around £30 and the previous owner may not have a reciept for it.
I have a Gtech 1 and gives a good kick initially and then it gives an extra shove further up the rev range when it maps in some extra fuel as I understand it, other symptons of the Gtech and other chips would be the removal of the boost limiter in 1st and 2nd so the car wheel spins easily in first rather than scramble about torque steering for grip.

mines totally standard and if i floor it in 2nd from low speeds, it takes a short while for the turbo to come on song then flings you down the road and certainly 'kicks' you in the back

Chaps, I finally bought the car and brought it home today over a good 200 mile empty motorway run.

The performance problem is more serious than I thought. The car would not go faster than 125mph, and there is no significant pull at all in all gears and at all revs. Third gear feels fairly decent going up the hills (more so than my other 2 litre N/A econobox), but the Coop is definitely not on song.

No warning lights and otherwise the engine is running sweet. Temps and pressures all healthy.

Throttle cable seems fine (with someone pushing the pedal to the floor, the butterfly was perfectly vertical with no more travel available when I try to push it along), and I wanted to get to the EBV to clean it but I don't have the right tools (but it looks clean and shiny though - car is only 18k miles old).

So sometime soon the car is going to a trusted mech to check out, but this kind of performance sound to you like base boost, limp mode or something else? It's still very driveable, idling is fine, no hesitation or knocking that I can detect - it's just bloody slow.

Ideas?

Sounds like its not boosting - check the hoses to the turbo wastegate, and the EBV

Kayjey - floored in 2nd at 1.5k rpm sees a slight hesitancy to get moving over the first second or two, then no drama whatsoever through the rev range. Not even a hint of wheelspin. Much like a N/A car. No kick in the back, no drama.

Third gear takes ages to go from 60mph to 100mph. Again, no drama.

I do occasionally hear what vaguely sounds like air from a wastegate expulsion when I let off at high revs, but that might have nothing to do with the turbo? Would I still hear that sound if the car was not boosting at all?

sounds either like a serious boost issue, or maybe a restriction like a blocked exhaust or collapsed catalytic converter. first thing I would do is fit a boost guage, cheap and easy to do. then full service, if still having problems start trouble shooting. give the cat a smack with a hammer, if you hear stuff rattling around inside then it needs to be replaced asap.

or you just bought yourself a NA

Plus wheels - check.
Red calipers - check.
Plus bodykit - check.
Starter button - check.
Six speed box - check.
Recaros - check.
EBV - check.

If it's an N/A, it's an awesome attempt at a prank, and I am an admiring victim!

Does the turbo look like this by any chance:


But seriously...I agree getting a boost gauge is a good first step, also worth buying some leads and hooking the car up to a laptop to see if the ECU gives you are errors.

Cheers.

Gareth

Congrats on the purchase and we're looking forward to some elusive Malaysian coupe pics....if you have access to EPER you can find out the exact build date. Would be interesting to see how late they were building them.

I'm sure the advice in the previous posts will see your performance restored - just don't forget to check your oil during all the fault finding ahead of you

Fixed that for you

You should read up on pinin_prestatyn's recent posts, he had a similar problem I believe.

Okay think I've found it. One of the hoses is torn.

This is the hose with a tear (picture taken from my old car). The hose in question is the one directly underneath the smaller hose adjacent to the "O". It is the big one with jubilee clips.



Can someone tell me what hose this is? There is a puncture on that hose about half an inch long.

Is this almost a sure bet to be the cause of my troubles?

That's the main high-pressure air intake to the throttle valve and then to the inlet plenum. A split there means both that the boost pressure won't be as high as you expect as it leaks air, and that the air metered by the MAF upstream of there won't match the amount of air arriving at the engine.

If the split was serious enough, it would mean severely degraded performance, yes?