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420bhp on stock internals??
#1188478
20/03/2011 19:28
20/03/2011 19:28
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Biggenz
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Biggenz
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I met a guy at the South East meet today who is running a GT2871R on stock internals on a car with 155k miles on.
He had the car mapped by Flea and it produces around 420bhp and 350lbs/ft of torque.
He started it up and revved it a few times leaving an oily trail behind on the ground upon which he said, 'it's just water'. When we left there about an hour later, the 'water' trail was still very visible.
How long do you reckon his engine will last??
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Re: 420bhp on stock internals??
[Re: ]
#1188480
20/03/2011 19:31
20/03/2011 19:31
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AP1
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AP1
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I saw a car with a similar oil spray from the exhaust at Bristol automoto last year, the turbo failed shortly afterwards.
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Re: 420bhp on stock internals??
[Re: ]
#1188485
20/03/2011 19:35
20/03/2011 19:35
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Biggenz
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Biggenz
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My mate said he bets £10 the guy doesn't make it home!
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Re: 420bhp on stock internals??
[Re: ]
#1188506
20/03/2011 20:17
20/03/2011 20:17
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
Flea
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
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Re: 420bhp on stock internals??
[Re: Flea]
#1188508
20/03/2011 20:23
20/03/2011 20:23
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Biggenz
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Biggenz
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Sure was, with the blue cobra seats. Not in the best of condition, but the guy was very happy with his power.
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Re: 420bhp on stock internals??
[Re: ]
#1188532
20/03/2011 21:00
20/03/2011 21:00
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Marco20valveT
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Marco20valveT
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Wow....
Standard internals!!
Impressive.
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Re: 420bhp on stock internals??
[Re: ]
#1188543
20/03/2011 21:23
20/03/2011 21:23
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rAzOr_20vt
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rAzOr_20vt
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Impressive indeed, certainly maxing out his Gt28RS and his internals lol ... Good old fiat engines keep plodding along  haha I hope mine makes more than that now with forged internals lol ... Flea to the rescue soon i hope 
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Re: 420bhp on stock internals??
[Re: ]
#1188547
20/03/2011 21:30
20/03/2011 21:30
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Biggenz
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Biggenz
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So what you're saying Flea is... I should get an even bigger turbo and make even more power on my stock internals as I hardly ever drive my car hard, and it's in way better nick with less mileage than this coupe is?? Thanks!!
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Re: 420bhp on stock internals??
[Re: Flea]
#1188548
20/03/2011 21:31
20/03/2011 21:31
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Biggenz
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Biggenz
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A perfect map goes a long, long way to keeping an engine happy... Oh by the way, shameless plug there.
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Re: 420bhp on stock internals??
[Re: Flea]
#1188564
20/03/2011 21:50
20/03/2011 21:50
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Daeron
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Daeron
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A perfect map goes a long, long way to keeping an engine happy... X We have a Volvo S40 1.9T here, running 530 hp on stock internals.. But its on stand alone ecu, mapped just right  (no high torque in low revs). Running at 2.3bar GT3071 .63
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Re: 420bhp on stock internals??
[Re: ]
#1188566
20/03/2011 21:57
20/03/2011 21:57
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Biggenz
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Biggenz
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Can you map a coupe?
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Re: 420bhp on stock internals??
[Re: ]
#1188593
20/03/2011 22:27
20/03/2011 22:27
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pfoe
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pfoe
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Impressive figures, even if it cant be corroberated at the moment.
Expect nothing less from Flea mind.
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Re: 420bhp on stock internals??
[Re: ]
#1188866
21/03/2011 15:13
21/03/2011 15:13
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 117
north west
watz
On a journey
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On a journey
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 117
north west
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I also ran near to 400bhp for just over a year on standard internals and the car produced 340lb/ft @1.4bar. Although shes never been to a drag strip or round a track(although this year could be promising)i didnt experience a single issue with the running. Yes , the general concencus is 340/350 torques is the limit for standard internals although as flea said with correct mapping then you can still have a perfectly healthy engine. At times the car was certainly pushed to its limits and ive had as much fun as anyone else would with this kind of power Imo if your on a tuning budget and not planning to visit a track too often, its a perfectly feasable option and a lot lot cheaper than a full forged rebuild.
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Re: 420bhp on stock internals??
[Re: ]
#1188871
21/03/2011 15:19
21/03/2011 15:19
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Marco20valveT
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Marco20valveT
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agree with what your saying, but are not not worried about it?
....thinking about it, as long as it has all the elements i.e cooling, correct map and a good bill of health before hand and its looked after, it should be ok!
it would just scare the hell out of me doing such.
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Re: 420bhp on stock internals??
[Re: ]
#1188875
21/03/2011 15:23
21/03/2011 15:23
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GS_Racing
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GS_Racing
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seeing as an engine on ebay is the same price as a set of rods,let alone pistons etc....it wouldnt bother me a bit
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Re: 420bhp on stock internals??
[Re: ]
#1188882
21/03/2011 15:41
21/03/2011 15:41
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 117
north west
watz
On a journey
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On a journey
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 117
north west
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its easy for me to say now that its forged but for the time it wasnt, yes, i was a little on edge every time i opened the throttle, but nothing ever happened. When it came to an inspection for the rebuild,everything looked like new inside. Everyones experiences will differ im sure,but looking back at it, if i hadnt wanted a little more power then im sure she would of been fine for many more years to come. I agree though marco, its not a nice feeling thinking "when will i hear the bang?"
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Re: 420bhp on stock internals??
[Re: ]
#1188885
21/03/2011 15:44
21/03/2011 15:44
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Marco20valveT
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Marco20valveT
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Watz, your braver than me mate! i just could not do that!! i would be leaving a brown trail behind me every time i opened the taps!!
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Re: 420bhp on stock internals??
[Re: ]
#1188918
21/03/2011 17:06
21/03/2011 17:06
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 117
north west
watz
On a journey
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On a journey
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 117
north west
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Re: 420bhp on stock internals??
[Re: ]
#1188943
21/03/2011 18:44
21/03/2011 18:44
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252
Windsor/ Reading
knight7660
Competition Level
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Competition Level
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252
Windsor/ Reading
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sounds good to be the tuning level of the standard internals is getting better by the year. like flea said its mostly down to the mapping
LE53 (452BHp & 389ftlb's with Quaife)
Wine red VIS FOOFY
Audi RS4 B7
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Re: 420bhp on stock internals??
[Re: ]
#1188944
21/03/2011 18:47
21/03/2011 18:47
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rAzOr_20vt
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rAzOr_20vt
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The terrible feeling is.... Open the taps down the bypass full chap, then when you go to slow down the engine cutts out!! This point thinking Arrghhhh WTF!!! Restart her and shes 'chapping her chebbs off' lol ... Gives that sickening feeling, glance at the oil pressure.. 1 bar!!  Lol baaaad times indeed!
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Re: 420bhp on stock internals??
[Re: watz]
#1188953
21/03/2011 19:21
21/03/2011 19:21
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suba
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suba
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I also ran near to 400bhp for just over a year on standard internals and the car produced 340lb/ft @1.4bar. Although shes never been to a drag strip or round a track(although this year could be promising)i didnt experience a single issue with the running. Yes , the general concencus is 340/350 torques is the limit for standard internals although as flea said with correct mapping then you can still have a perfectly healthy engine. At times the car was certainly pushed to its limits and ive had as much fun as anyone else would with this kind of power Imo if your on a tuning budget and not planning to visit a track too often, its a perfectly feasable option and a lot lot cheaper than a full forged rebuild. Here's the thing - the engine might be fine for road use with the occasional blat, but sustained boost for 20-30 mins will create issues in a short space of time. If you are prepared for the engine to let go then why not go for it, you might be lucky and get 20,000 miles out of it.... then again... it's proven that the stock rods bend over 350 lbs ft, and more than 1.4 bar on the stock pistons causes issues. Whilst the map is critical I would advise against anyone thinking 'his car was fine, mine will be OK too...)'
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Re: 420bhp on stock internals??
[Re: ]
#1188959
21/03/2011 19:42
21/03/2011 19:42
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,192
Bristol, UK
Hovedan
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,192
Bristol, UK
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Although shes never been to a drag strip or round a track. At times the car was certainly pushed to its limits and ive had as much fun as anyone else would with this kind of power I can't believe what I'm reading  These 2 statements simply don't add up. If you've 400 horses under your right foot, you cannot use them to anywhere remotely near their potential if you've not been on a track. I think it's fair to say I've covered more track day miles in a coop than most over the last couple of years. I wouldn't want to risk running any more than the 360 I have at 1.35 bar for any sustained period of 20-30 mins. And I've had lots of fun over the last few weeks with my ponies
Here's the thing - the engine might be fine for road use with the occasional blat, but sustained boost for 20-30 mins will create issues in a short space of time.
If you are prepared for the engine to let go then why not go for it, you might be lucky and get 20,000 miles out of it.... then again...
it's proven that the stock rods bend over 350 lbs ft, and more than 1.4 bar on the stock pistons causes issues. Whilst the map is critical I would advise against anyone thinking 'his car was fine, mine will be OK too...)'
^^^^ +1 what suba says, which is exactly what my comments infer. Would have loved some more ponies at Goodwood last week to fend off the two Nissan GTR's too
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Re: 420bhp on stock internals??
[Re: Hovedan]
#1188961
21/03/2011 19:56
21/03/2011 19:56
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Biggenz
Unregistered
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Biggenz
Unregistered
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I can't believe what I'm reading These 2 statements simply don't add up. If you've 400 horses under your right foot, you cannot use them to anywhere remotely near their potential if you've not been on a track. I understand exactly what he means. Not everyone likes to do track days. In fact, I couldn't bare taking my coupe to a track and ragging the daylights out of it. I would be happy just to know the power is there in case I needed or wanted to use it for whatever reason.
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Re: 420bhp on stock internals??
[Re: ]
#1188964
21/03/2011 19:59
21/03/2011 19:59
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proccy
Unregistered
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proccy
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but whats the point of having the power if you can't use it legally? i rarely speed on the road as i'm fully aware of the consequences, and i'm new to the track - but these cars are made for strong running and the track/strip is the ONLY place it's safe to run it well. might as well get a fiesta diesel
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Re: 420bhp on stock internals??
[Re: ]
#1188972
21/03/2011 20:19
21/03/2011 20:19
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 117
north west
watz
On a journey
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On a journey
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 117
north west
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I also ran near to 400bhp for just over a year on standard internals and the car produced 340lb/ft @1.4bar. Although shes never been to a drag strip or round a track(although this year could be promising)i didnt experience a single issue with the running. Yes , the general concencus is 340/350 torques is the limit for standard internals although as flea said with correct mapping then you can still have a perfectly healthy engine. At times the car was certainly pushed to its limits and ive had as much fun as anyone else would with this kind of power Imo if your on a tuning budget and not planning to visit a track too often, its a perfectly feasable option and a lot lot cheaper than a full forged rebuild. Here's the thing - the engine might be fine for road use with the occasional blat, but sustained boost for 20-30 mins will create issues in a short space of time. If you are prepared for the engine to let go then why not go for it, you might be lucky and get 20,000 miles out of it.... then again... it's proven that the stock rods bend over 350 lbs ft, and more than 1.4 bar on the stock pistons causes issues. Whilst the map is critical I would advise against anyone thinking 'his car was fine, mine will be OK too...)' I think thats more than a fair comment, i was simply giving my personal experience. Its been said many times that its not advised,no one advised me to go for it.But in this case i had no issues. Surely when tuning an engine your always running a risk.
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Re: 420bhp on stock internals??
[Re: ]
#1188973
21/03/2011 20:19
21/03/2011 20:19
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Marco20valveT
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Marco20valveT
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I agree with Proccy.
Why have the power if you don't want to use it or scared of it??
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Re: 420bhp on stock internals??
[Re: ]
#1188976
21/03/2011 20:21
21/03/2011 20:21
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 117
north west
watz
On a journey
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On a journey
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 117
north west
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but whats the point of having the power if you can't use it legally? i rarely speed on the road as i'm fully aware of the consequences, and i'm new to the track - but these cars are made for strong running and the track/strip is the ONLY place it's safe to run it well. might as well get a fiesta diesel I dont think it would quite cut it
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