Little article on a 16vt as being a sleeper car

Will pick this up on the way home from the shops! The magazine seems to always focus on the 16VT FC as apposed to the 20VT - not a bad thing of course.

Any reason? I thought the 20vt would Be the one getting more power once tuned

I like Redline, but I think most of what they say about the Coupe is wrong, there's plenty of tuning for them, this forum is very helpful, and the 16VT isn't the one to pick for tuning, as the 20VT makes more power!

Hmm, dont know why they call it a sleeper car, as coupes look fast!? A sleeper car to me would be a black galant VR-4 or Subaru Legacy sti..

I think it's debatable. There were a lot more 20vt's sold than 16vt's, so there are more people who were likely to tune the 20vt's. The 16vt's can be made to produce more power, just depends on which sized turbo you want to go for? GT35, will see you well over 500bhp, but at expense of when the turbo comes on boost.

Also, the highest power 20vt engine would be the Marea in Brazil, making 650 - 700bhp, where as the 16vt engine there are numerous integrale's running over 700bhp, with one in Greece running 1023bhp at the wheels!

I agree - if anything the 16vt lump is easier to tune to a very high level. It's all been done before with 'grales. There are more parts available, and ECU wise you can take your pick. There is also an argument that a 4 pot engine is more stable at high revs.

There is a lot of knowledge on this forum - but if you want high end tuning stuff there is not a lot of parts available unless you custom make them, which is the opposite of all the turbo japmobiles, e.g. brake kits, cams, off the shelf pistons, cranks etc.

Both engines are 2l as standard - no difference there at all except the 5 pot will be smoother at a low state of tune.

That might be the case, but most people don't tune their cars to 700bhp plus, so the ultimate acheivable power isn't important to most people.
I got my 20vt to 257bhp on an air filter and a remap, which can't be done on a 16vt, so you can make more power with a 20vt in the early stages of tuning, which seems to be where most people leave it anyway.
Because of that, I'd reckon that the 20vt is the best bet for *most* tuners, with the 16vt only a better choice if you're going to the extremes of 700+ or 4WD (in which case get an R32 GTR)
I'm not saying that the 16vt isn't an excellent car, or an excellent tuning car, I'm just saying that the higher stock power and wider ownership mean that the 20vt is hardly a poor cousin!

Fully agree with above! Well said

If you are looking for a simple chip etc. and breathing mods then the 20vt is easier to get 260-270 bhp from - 400bhp + is a different ball game, which is where most 'tuned' cars start to get serious.

There are lots of 2lr turbo engines that will outperform both the 20vt and the 16vt with a simple chip, filter, and exhaust...

Count in the Rally slags and there are plenty, but I can't think of any that start with less or equal power than the 20vT that would wind up with much more after those mods?

I don't understand why the rally chaps make so much more power and torque than us- even when we're tuned to make as much power, we're still lagging hugely in terms of torque and spool up. What's their secret?

Cosworth YB - the turbo is big enough to flow 350-400bhp with simple mods + some fueling. Same story with the evo FQ300 - it's the same turbo for 340 bhp.

We are not that far behind in real terms, the difference being they start with a better platform. The turbo is key, much larger twin-scroll unit, good FMIC as standard, and a slightly higher compression ratio with a longer stroke (good for torque). Things like fuel pumps and injectors are also good for 350bhp+ simply because they are starting at a higher level so the redundancy is there.

It's really very easy to get the perfect 350bhp setup on the 20vt now without too much expense, and it will spool up very similar to an Evo.

I'm pulling this one back from the dead a little, but what we often forget is that with the Coupe we're starting from a good place already!
Take the Nissan 350Z as an example, 300bhp, and it has the same 0-100mph time as the 20vt at 220bhp.
The Toyota Celica GT4 (ST205) is a good example too, 245bhp, and a full second slower to 100, and that's after being half a second faster to 60.
I don't think there's another car (short of Elise-type-things) that can keep up with the Coupe unless it has at least 50bhp more, which means that although it might be hard work to get a lot more power, it's not hard to get a lot more performance, as it doesn't take that much more power to get it.

keep up with a fiat coupe?id bet that subarus,evos,cosworths,lancia deltas,200sx's and a LOT of other cars are just as quick,and if i still had my old evo 1 (completely standard) id bet all of my money that in either a straight line or round a circuit it would make mincemeat of a standard 20vt.

I'd happily take that bet, especially in a straight line!
For cars with a similar level of power (230-230bhp)I can't think of a single example that's as quick as a standard coupe, there are some 250+bhp ones that are.
Newer Evos yes, and older ones over 270bhp, Subarus likewise, Cossies I have no idea on, nor Lancias, 200sx no chance, Integras no chance, newish VW based 2.0 turbos no chance.
I'm not talking massive differences here, just a couple of tenths quicker to 100mph, nobody is talking about making mincemeat of anything, and an Evo 1 most certainly won't make mincemeat of a 20vt.

you have evidently never seen an evo launch then,no way,no how that your car would launch off the line as quick as that,and a standard 20vt doesnt have enough power to pull it back in.
and as for newer evos,i raced my evo1 next to a brand new evo x and they were side by side the whole way,an evo 1 is very light.
and when i say keep up with,a couple of tenths when you are reading official figures in a book suddenly turns into bugger all on the road.

A little off topic but coupes can launch pretty well, I recorded a 4.9 0-60 at York recently with only around 265/270 hp (at a guess, unmapped gtec 2 62 trim coupe) I know it's a drag strip but the Tarmac start line at York isn't all that grippy, pretty confident I could get close on the road. I was quite surprised tbh.

My 20vt quite happily kept up with an Evo 4 from a standing start, and was ahead by the top of 5th, although by very very little, so unless the Evo 1 is measurably quicker then I can't see it being noticeably different.
What I've noticed is that on the road even a difference of 50bhp and a second on recorded 0-60 means very little, enough that the ability of the driver to get the best from the car is the most important factor.