As above, what's the consensus from the experts on this, fit front for steering grip or rear for steady tail?

Best tires front in case of rain as they will always to do the big job pumping water.. My five cents..!
(what's the use of good rear tires if you can't steer...)

Always fit the drive tyres Simon.

I think the theory is, if the backs aren't displacing water, then you'll end up going sideways when they aquaplane. With the weight on the fronts, they'll grip well even if more worn.

Keep shifting fronts to the rear when it comes to new tyres and they'll always be relatively new. You could have a single pair of tyres on a coop on the rear for years through normal road use, and that could be dangerous...

Trappy this is the advice which Farmer Autocare my local has given me. Call me whatever but I always like to know why and be persuaded by the argument even if it takes 2 or 3 goes [what a pain, how does Mrs Ed put up with me ]

I can see the point of view of the others though....

My word I should put this in a sticky...

The tyres with the best tread should *always* be at the back. This ensures that they will slide *after* the front end.
You do *not* want to lose the back end on the road.
A vehicle with the back wheels sliding while the front are gripping is *unconditionally* unstable and *will* swap ends.

I do not care how good a driver you are; nor how well you drive on the track or how fast your reactions are.

I do not want to meet you oncoming out of control when you discover you can't argue with physics.


Personally, I move the rear tyres forward to replace the fronts, and put the new ones on the back. Since they wear much more slowly than the fronts, the backs are always new and the fronts always nearly new.

It's DEFINITELY best tyres at the back on any car:

Linky

Linky2

And a Video showing what can happen......

As above, always put new tyres on the rear.

Oversteer is harder to control than understeer. (I know that many people have the driving skill of Mr Schuemacher-maybe spelt wrong, but that's the advice)

I hadn't expected the thread to become this colourful!

The parallel outlook in my profession would be perhaps be a greater need to appreciate that big muscles control small muscles, not the other way round....

I had a trawl through the Handling section but found little on this topic, surely as important as "which oil".

Of course this is only true in the wet, as worn tyres grip better in the dry, but we all know that don't we ?

another one for new tires on rear .

for same reasons already stated .

a friend choose the other way and that night was cut out his car , he was told to put new on rear by me and few others .
this happened on a dry summer night too.
this was in a pug 1.9 205 gti which do suffer from lift off oversteer.

Id prefer to have maximum braking and lateral grip from new tyres on the front. Road cars are setup heavily to understeer; on a good surface you wont have a problem with a car swapping ends because of warn tyres. On a slippery surface, well lets just say I'd be buying new tyres.

Obviously there is a limit that tyres can perform at, but in the wet you should be driving for the conditions.

I never let my tyres get to that legal but well worn state anyway.

just to add in my friends case

he wasnt speeding , he had police behind him when it happened .
the police said he wasnt speeding , the car never span he just slide in to big lamp post.maybe he would of span if hadnt hit post.

the rear tires werent well worn.the car was in good condition .

maybe a freak one off .
as the police, myself and friends where puzzeled how he did such a thing.
still it looked a mess when i dove past the crash site, bits of pugeot smashed to pieces with cut off roof on road.

Just to stick another thought in the pot. I change my wheels to my track wheels/tyres on a regular basis. I mark the fronts with a piece of tape. I do the same when removing the track wheels.
When putting road wheels back on they are allways changed front to rear. I have even tread on all four wheels.
Of course i realise this means starting with four new ones. Plus i dont drive my coupe in bad weather normally.

Very interesting comments and observations...
So far after referrals to the third umpire, hotspot and snicko I will mostly be going for new spankers on the rear, if you see what I mean

Definitely new tyres at the rear. I've experienced first hand what poor grip at the rear and good grip on the front feels like and let's just say it's not something I want to experience again. Back end came out, corrected it with my lightning fast reflex , started fish tailing and ended up in a ditch

If there was more space then maybe It would have straightened out.. But on a narrow B- road, no chance. No matter how good of a driver you are.

If you believe it'll make that much difference then you should be buying 4 new tyres in the interest of safety. What you should be doing is switching front to rear, say when the fronts are half worn, to wear all 4 evenly and then buy 4 when you need them.

The point is that the issue does not arrive in the dry. Then, one can expect the tyres - assuming they're not down to the canvas, and that they are a reputable make - to have similar grip wherever they are. (Though I have heard of plenty of tyres which become slippery as they get to the wear limit.)

Good tyres on the back is nothing to do with how you drive, how good you are, how well you drive to the conditions, or even if you never set out in the rain.

It's for that one time you suddenly find yourself in three inches of standing water...


[Think about it: a new tyre at the front is likely to have *worse* dry grip than a part worn one at the back - assuming the same rubber, there's more rubber in the blocks moving around under changing load, leading to less precision in your steering. To be fair, that might put more heat in the tyres and improve grip that way - but to be honest, if you're relying on the heat in your tyres and driving to the limit of the grip on a public road, you don't deserve your licence.]

This is also why I would never recommend - for road use - altering the balance on the rear brakes other than from the Fiat standard design. While it is clear from other's experience that it is possible to improve the braking at the rear, in the wet you are asking for the same problem.

I'd say it depends on how you want to drive in the wet. If you're planning on spanking it then you'd want the best tyres on the back to avoid oversteer.

I find that I drive quite slowly in the wet, especially around corners and so to avoid the annoyance of having the wheels spin while trying to accelerate (which happens infinitely more often than the car trying to switch ends) I put the newer tyres on the front.

In the dry it shouldn't make any difference.

For me the greatest chance of an unexpected loss of traction is coming across swathes of standing water on the motorway [M9 J3-->4 for example] which have no right to be there when the rest of the surface is comparatively well-drained. For this reason principally it'll be rear=new.

Right, I honestly think we need to get things into perspective here. In my neck of the woods we suffer "weather" more than other parts of the country so to speak. I have never felt the rear end go when driving normally in very wet weather, & I'm not saying I drive around at 30mph. So it's either the tyres or not driving for the conditions.

The only time I feel something is in my wee deisel van in winter, even then I know I'm pushing it a wee bit

Jim you made the point before and I agree with it fully, 'drive according to the road conditions'.

It seemed like an innocent topic at first, I'm surprised by the heat of response in a way but then if it's seen from a particular angle as a safety issue you act according to that angle.

Me, I'm still seeing red

And yes, what the hell do they know about 'weather' dahn sowff?

[Cue Barnacle en route to Skye ]

Who sir, me sir? I didn't do nuffink sir, it wasn't me sir, I wasn't there sir, you can ask my brother, he wasn't there either sir!

I think if nothing else the message is to have good tyres on your car.

I remember years ago (10 years nearly) I was in Costco, and as they do, I was enquiring about the price of the michellins(sp). While I was waiting they, had a video of a (normal) car going round a long bend on a track in wet conditions.

With the new tyres on the front, it spun out.

With the new tyres on the rear, it understeered, but was controlled.

Ross

Exactly why I took the 2 nagkangs off that were on the LE wheels I bought and swapped the 2 new dunlop sp tyres I bought to replace them to the rear.

Don't scrimp on tyres...
its the 1st point of contact between you and the road, having driven for 3 days on nangkangs that were almost new, I think having good tyres is as important as them not being worn.

Listen to the man; he speaks truth.

Your life depends on fifteen square inches of rubber on each corner...

New rubber on the rear, always.

Thats right lads, rubber up