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Re: Whats wrong with society ?
[Re: robcoupe20vt]
#1318786
23/02/2012 01:37
23/02/2012 01:37
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,567 Northampton England
Sedicivalvole
Club member 2092
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Club member 2092
Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,567
Northampton England
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There always one liberal who has to mention the mail online .
Proccy a liberal...
Vinci Grey LE Alfa 147 GTA 3.2 V6 BMW E92 M3 4.0 V8 Fiat Tipo Sedicivalvole 2.0 16v ABS
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Re: Whats wrong with society ?
[Re: robcoupe20vt]
#1366370
09/08/2012 16:04
09/08/2012 16:04
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 776 State of Essex .
robcoupe20vt
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Two brothers convicted of child prostitution and will be sentenced in october . Its not been covered by the media i was listening to Nick Ferrari this morning and he went into some detail of the case and i was shocked by the action of these two guys http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-19181714
Last edited by robcoupe20vt; 09/08/2012 17:51.
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Re: Whats wrong with society ?
[Re: robcoupe20vt]
#1366396
09/08/2012 17:57
09/08/2012 17:57
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,563 Berlin
barnacle
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
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Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
Forum Demigod
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,563
Berlin
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Re: Whats wrong with society ?
[Re: barnacle]
#1366428
09/08/2012 20:45
09/08/2012 20:45
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,748 Pistonheads
Brewster
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
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Posts: 5,748
Pistonheads
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Ah, I don't recall the conversation, but would I be too far wrong in suspecting that you're hinting that the actions of two people who happen to be of a particular race/religion/social grouping imply that they are representative of the whole?
If you are, might I remind you (a) of the forum rules, and (b) the logical fallacies implicit in that deduction? You would indeed be too far wrong. I am explicitly aware of the forum rules, having been here almost as long as you, Neil, and ordained to Mod status at the same time. I am not, in the slightest suggesting that these two are representative of their race/creed/colour/religion. The group they are representative of is that of men who are grooming white, working class, vunerable girls for prostitution and acts of paedophilia. This is a problem which is scant reported, but seems to be very much on the increase according to the information that is available if you look for it. That group seems almost entirely populated by men of a Pakistani origin. It may be an unfortunate fact, but it's a fact nonetheless. It is a sad indictment on Asian communities that these acts are often swept under the carpet. The real shame is that in the name of racial harmony the rest of British society seems to want to do the same. Refusing to acknowledge a link between the ideological and national origin of those perpetrating these disgusting crimes will not help racial harmony, the poor victims, or prevent future occurances.
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Re: Whats wrong with society ?
[Re: robcoupe20vt]
#1366460
09/08/2012 23:48
09/08/2012 23:48
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546 Northumberland
AndrewR
I AM a Coop
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I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546
Northumberland
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You contend that these sort of acts are more common in Asian communities, but nobody knows the true scale of sex-slavery in this country, all we can base judgements on is how many people are caught and convicted.
So an equally valid hypothesis would be that the Asian community is closer and more honest than the indigenous white community, thereby increasing the chances that somebody within that community will be caught.
Why assume one or the other without any evidence?
Dear monos, a secret truth.
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Re: Whats wrong with society ?
[Re: AndrewR]
#1366466
10/08/2012 00:20
10/08/2012 00:20
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Enforcer
Unregistered
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Enforcer
Unregistered
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So an equally valid hypothesis would be that the Asian community is closer and more honest than the indigenous white community, thereby increasing the chances that somebody within that community will be caught.
Why assume one or the other without any evidence?
So is that how they were caught?
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Re: Whats wrong with society ?
[Re: robcoupe20vt]
#1366467
10/08/2012 00:30
10/08/2012 00:30
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546 Northumberland
AndrewR
I AM a Coop
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I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546
Northumberland
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@Enforcer - I don't know how they were caught, I was merely offering an alternative hypothesis.
@Brewster - even if we were to make an assumption that *all* sex-slavery in the UK was the work of Pakistani men how would that help catch anybody? If that community is 4% of the population (and I can't be bothered to Google it), and if only the men are to blame then that would still be 1.5 million doors to kick in to check for under age prostitutes. Do you see that as a fruitful venture?
Dear monos, a secret truth.
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Re: Whats wrong with society ?
[Re: AndrewR]
#1366471
10/08/2012 00:46
10/08/2012 00:46
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Enforcer
Unregistered
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Enforcer
Unregistered
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@Enforcer - I don't know how they were caught, I was merely offering an alternative hypothesis.
So you don't have any way of weighing up the possibilities. You need more information.
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Re: Whats wrong with society ?
[Re: ]
#1366472
10/08/2012 00:53
10/08/2012 00:53
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546 Northumberland
AndrewR
I AM a Coop
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I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546
Northumberland
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So you don't have any way of weighing up the possibilities. You need more information. Speaking as a market researcher I can assure you that any survey where question 1 is, "Do you operate a string of under-age prostitutes?", is likely to have a very low incidence rate.
Dear monos, a secret truth.
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Re: Whats wrong with society ?
[Re: robcoupe20vt]
#1366473
10/08/2012 00:56
10/08/2012 00:56
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546 Northumberland
AndrewR
I AM a Coop
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I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546
Northumberland
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Brewster, I still don't see what you're achieving. I imagine that most members of the Pakistani community understand perfectly well that it's both illegal and immoral to force anybody, especially those under the age of consent, into prostitution. Telling them, "This is your problem", is unlikely to improve race relations.
Dear monos, a secret truth.
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Re: Whats wrong with society ?
[Re: robcoupe20vt]
#1366477
10/08/2012 01:08
10/08/2012 01:08
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546 Northumberland
AndrewR
I AM a Coop
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I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546
Northumberland
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There's no liberal suggestion that we leave these communities to police themselves, only a suggestion that we don't assume any community condones these actions.
There's nothing to be gained by making this a Pakistani problem, and everything to be lost.
Dear monos, a secret truth.
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Re: Whats wrong with society ?
[Re: AndrewR]
#1366480
10/08/2012 01:13
10/08/2012 01:13
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,748 Pistonheads
Brewster
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
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Posts: 5,748
Pistonheads
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There's nothing to be gained by making this a Pakistani problem, and everything to be lost. The solitary cause of it being a Pakistani problem is the fact that it is entirely Pakistani men carrying out these crimes. The alternative is that we continue to ignore this fact for fear of being a bit less than PC and continue to see a rise in these cases, but hey, these girls are only trash from council estates and I don't live near one of those so it doesn't matter.
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Re: Whats wrong with society ?
[Re: robcoupe20vt]
#1366483
10/08/2012 01:20
10/08/2012 01:20
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546 Northumberland
AndrewR
I AM a Coop
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I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546
Northumberland
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We have no evidence that these crimes are being carried out entirely by Pakistani men. Will you accept that if I can find a single counter-example, or don't you believe it either?
Even *if* that were the case it wouldn't suggest that all Pakistani men think that this is acceptable behaviour. It's like saying, "All rapists are men, therefore all men are rapists" - in that example making all men responsible for the reprehensible actions of a tiny number of men hardly makes the situation better, does it?
Dear monos, a secret truth.
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Re: Whats wrong with society ?
[Re: AndrewR]
#1366509
10/08/2012 08:55
10/08/2012 08:55
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,144 Southampton, Hants
Roadking
Club member 1809
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Club member 1809
Forum is my life
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Posts: 6,144
Southampton, Hants
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Telling them, "This is your problem", is unlikely to improve race relations. So the priority is improving race relations? I think that's one of Brewie's points.
"RK's way seems the most sensible to me". ali_hire 16 Dec 2010
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Re: Whats wrong with society ?
[Re: robcoupe20vt]
#1366526
10/08/2012 09:48
10/08/2012 09:48
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DanielTheManual
Unregistered
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DanielTheManual
Unregistered
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Problems highlighted in this thread are bound to occur when cultures of differing moral values mix.
But Pakistani girls are subject to abuse too. Arranged marriages are still practised, whereby girls of 13 or so are forced into wedlock, ending up pregnant before they are 16 and of legal consensual age.
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Re: Whats wrong with society ?
[Re: ]
#1366622
10/08/2012 16:04
10/08/2012 16:04
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 776 State of Essex .
robcoupe20vt
OP
Enjoying the ride
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OP
Enjoying the ride
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Posts: 776
State of Essex .
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Problems highlighted in this thread are bound to occur when cultures of differing moral values mix.
But Pakistani girls are subject to abuse too. Arranged marriages are still practised, whereby girls of 13 or so are forced into wedlock, ending up pregnant before they are 16 and of legal consensual age. Yes pakistani girls are abused but by there own community and not by gangs of white males . What annoys me most is liberals who jump to the top of the queue to defend these peoples rights and to deny a certain part of the community is responsible for these crimes .
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Re: Whats wrong with society ?
[Re: robcoupe20vt]
#1366656
10/08/2012 18:18
10/08/2012 18:18
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 776 State of Essex .
robcoupe20vt
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OP
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State of Essex .
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No i was not reffering to anyone in particular i have been on other sites discussing this topic . First i listened to the lbc show first thing yesterday morning and they were describing some of the vile acts involved and my first reaction is for the victims .This problem was covered by bbc1 at the beginning of the year . An asian journalist tried to uncover why it involved so many pakistani men i mean it goes on its a fact . I just cant understand how one human being can do something like this to another .
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Re: Whats wrong with society ?
[Re: robcoupe20vt]
#1366658
10/08/2012 18:19
10/08/2012 18:19
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546 Northumberland
AndrewR
I AM a Coop
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I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546
Northumberland
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What annoys me most is liberals who jump to the top of the queue to defend these peoples rights and to deny a certain part of the community is responsible for these crimes . I don't believe I've mentioned anybody's rights, and all I'm denying is that this problem rests exclusively with Pakistani men. What I'm trying to get across to Brewster, and anybody else who wants to make this a race issue, is that associating this problem solely with one community doesn't do anything at all to lessen it or stop it happening again, it just gives racists a bit of a buzz.
Dear monos, a secret truth.
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Re: Whats wrong with society ?
[Re: robcoupe20vt]
#1366689
10/08/2012 20:29
10/08/2012 20:29
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Big_Muzzie
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Big_Muzzie
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Without having read anything on this thread it's easy to isolate issues:
Religion Materialism Do gooders that are too blinkered to understand both sides of any issue. Oh and the fact that the people who run countries are so far detached from the common man that they have no clue what is really going on.
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Re: Whats wrong with society ?
[Re: ]
#1366700
10/08/2012 21:00
10/08/2012 21:00
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,831 Haslemere, Surrey
Mark_S
Forum is my job
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Forum is my job
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,831
Haslemere, Surrey
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I think on an 80:20 basis the "organized" problem lies with men from the Indian sub-continent and that it obviously derives from their their cultural roots; only really manifesting itself when they are located in a different country with different values and basically a world of temptation....
We must be able to discuss the "smoking gun" of statistics, to get at the root causes and from there try and fix the problem. I am concerned that the stigma associated with not conforming to a politically correct agenda, will effectively drive out common sense, ultimately leading us to a very bad place.
997 C4S
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Re: Whats wrong with society ?
[Re: robcoupe20vt]
#1366705
10/08/2012 21:19
10/08/2012 21:19
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dlongstaff
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dlongstaff
Unregistered
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From that report, they appear to come from Telford.
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Re: Whats wrong with society ?
[Re: robcoupe20vt]
#1366708
10/08/2012 21:28
10/08/2012 21:28
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546 Northumberland
AndrewR
I AM a Coop
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I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546
Northumberland
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Can I try, one last time, to explain what I'm saying to those who are fixated on "liberal do-gooders" and "political correctness"?
The reason to avoid labelling this a Pakistani problem is that to do so serves no purpose. It doesn't make the perpetrators easier to catch, it doesn't make it less likely to happen, it just alienates a section of society.
If you think this isn't the case then complete this simple challenge...
Here's the plan:
Step 1: Make this a Pakistani problem. Print it in the newspapers, announce it from the rooftops, whatever. . . . Step n: The problem of sex-slavery is vastly reduced.
All you have to do is fill in steps 2 to n-1, and the only rule is that you must do it without, implicitly or explicitly, making the logical fallacy that because all members of set a are also members of set b it therefore follows that all members of set b are also members of set a.
You do that and then you can whine that political correctness is holding you back.
Dear monos, a secret truth.
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