It is just about impossible to edit on a phone. sorry new post. I missed a bit.
I read a lot but find I often reread a line or miss a line or a single word. Thus it makes no (bad word comming up off to check it) sense (no c).


edit: and again! So it takes me much longer.

Interesting. It must be a real pain.

I am curious: How do you experience this difficulty? I mean, is it a problem of poor memory? Or is it that you expect to be able to work out spellings as you write, but find there is no logic to it? Or what?

Copy n paist

I'd take a *guess* based on what Jef has written, that he's writing phonetically and trying to recognise errors as he goes. I could be completely wrong.

I usually think I know it. Only I don't. A lot of the time words are just daft. It is just a funy shape (shap shape?) Missed words are worse on phone or hand writing as I cannot keep up. I touch type but often get the spac esin themi dle of words. (Spaces in the middle of words.

I'm really glad this subject came up and the frank debate from many sides of the spectrum is, at the least, enlightening. In some people's lives it is still a taboo, especially amongst those parents who understandably want to believe their child is, if not perfect, well..."normal" [subject for another thread perhaps]. I have kept a copy of a letter sent to me by parents of two talented pupils from the past [both came out of Oxford with 1sts] who stated "there is nothing wrong with **** , he/she doesn't suffer from dyslexia and I would be grateful if this was never discussed again". I have always got on very well with the family and still do, but it's not the only example of defensiveness I have encountered.

Then there is the issue of incredulity - I can do it so why can't you/he/she do it, it's so easy.....I find it so strange that we are either "naturally intelligent" as Brewster puts it, to make us act that way, or educated/brought up/informed in that way. I feel this is an issue of tolerance.

I have a pupil at school just now who, in my opinion, is unquestionably dyslexic and as a result maybe has got themselves into scrapes in the past and is unpopular with some of my colleagues as they appear to be lazy. Ok I'm lucky in a 1-1 job that there is "quality" time in the lesson and I can do my best to address these opinions of mine - but it takes time.

I agree with many posters on here who have bemoaned their lack of empathy from schooling - it's not surprising they've been turned off. Therein lies a major flaw in our education system, in that it concentrates too much on general results and league tables rather than the wider issue of including people who learn things in different ways and at different speeds. To me that is a firm and positive contribution to society.

I've developed a couple of theories about the big D but I can't reference any of them or back them up with evidence that I've laid my hands on so I'm off to have dinner and put on my suit of armour in case they're put to the test and shot down in flames

in case??



Let us know when you get back.

I've had some excellent tachers who teach in dyslexic (put a capital I in in fffs) edit: friendly ways /edit and everyone learns. That's often not spoon feading. one at gcse biology taught as follows.
friday inform class of subject for mondays test. monday do test. rest of week teach class main points of issue and 1 to 1 with others

lowest mark was an A in that class.
@Neil yes correct as I go but it's recursive.

I use a lot of numonics, hey spelt right! Rhymes and songs. There seems no logic to a lot of words. It is all constant effort, learning words still at 28. Last week I lernt assigned!

I had thought it might be. I wonder if there's a way to use my work in correcting spelling errors to build a noise model to autocorrect 'you'? I'll have to think about that - I suspect it would need a *huge* body of written work and would probably be specific to an individual. Hmm.

(I'm not suggesting you need correcting; just thinking out loud here. My dissertation shows how you can correct text if it's mangled in a recognisable way, and how you can automatically recognise words that you don't know).

For what it's worth, Jef, I find I often make mistakes while typing - not in spelling, but in starting the wrong word or phrase - but will backspace within a couple of letters often without even realising I've done it. Touch typing means my fingers know what to type, but they don't always listen to my brain!

But my errors very day today. I can pass as human some times. I can mis-spell a few differnt ways in a few sentences.

Come on now jef you can do better than that!

Interesting - just found this doctoral thesis: http://web.dcs.bbk.ac.uk/research/recentphds/pedler.pdf - looks like she uses very similar statistical methods to mine.

<edit> Just a note to say that of *all* the research papers on spelling correction I read when I was doing my dissertation, I found not one that did not have a spelling mistake...

I can assure everyone that having spent a pleasant evening over a few jars with Jack he is far from human

Ilvanbbonivccee pycoocppk

I found it really easy to read!

Had to write down your first word though Brian, I would never have thought of it even.

Jef and Sam, do either of you have the left/right confusion thing?

And is it a fair observation that neither of you have any great difficulty in reading/comprehension?

I can follow a passage and draw conclusions. My left and right are in a constant battle.
also green and blue.
see that blue farrari is it a 599?
No but the green one is.

No issues at all with reading, If im reading something technical I need to make key notes as I have issues retaining details for more than a few seconds.
Left and rights are again no issue, reading aloud is troublesome as I stumble over words even paragraphs. If I make an active effort to calm my self and make sure I am happy with the material im presenting im better.
As I have to do presentations now its something I have got better at with experience.

I have spent my entire life building coping mechanisms, its second nature now so I almost forget the checks I put in place to help me.

I fall out of range of the classic presentation of dyslexia, its just limited to spelling and numbers.

Thanks, both.

Even with too many 'b's in the first word.

1. In my experience the remembrance or even fear that something might not come out in the correct order stays with one - it is the enemy of relaxation.

2. Experience is a coping mechanism - perhaps needing more than frequent repetition to drive a point deep into the long term memory as the short term finds it hard to grasp the pattern.

3. Coping mechanisms become habitual and are the survival kit, and yes things become less fraught as the cognitive brain takes on long hours of duty.

4. Sam, I've no problem with your opinion but I would argue that there is no such thing as a classic dyslexic. It's too convenient a pigeonhole and doesn't imply a generous spectrum. One is what one is and for me the ideal is to recognise it and learn to cope in spite of the occasional Molatov cocktail that might be tossed in your direction.

Some do have real difficulty with left/right labels, an issue I regularly find with pianists.

Sorry...need to pause!

Your right but, please don't make the assumption I think every one fits in to a nice box, by the very nature of my post I prove that I do not.

When I said classic presentation, I was referring to the check box questions the tests ask and the one's the specialists ask. This does not mean I to say every one presents in the same manner. There is no true/yes/no/false with cognitive learning disability's just rangers of typical presentation.

Its a deeply personal thing, I have not suggested others present this way, just how I present and giving others the benefit of my experience.

In my opinion, some people just haven't been able to learn how to spell, are too lazy or haven't been taught properly.

This has been covered up by the word Dyslexic and is used by everyone as an excuse or reason.

Genuine dyslexics have a hard time due to lazy/thick/ill taught people claiming to have the same condition.

We all make mistakes, some people can't learn, others won't.

For example, for years, I'd spelt swap as swop, as I thought that was the correct spelling, until I was told it wasn't. I've always made sure I don't make that mistake again and now spell it correctly.

Not enough teaching is being done these days by parents and/or teachers regarding the differences between words such as your and you're, there and their, etc.

I never really pull anyone up regarding their spelling on here as none of us are perfect, but everyday words that are used in the wrong context, such as the above can be annoying to read.

Does anyone think the way of teaching phonetics is wrong?

My 5 year old grandson has been taught by my family and I, how to say and spell words and letters properly and has been doing well.

Until he started school! His spelling and writing, etc have taken a dip due to him trying to learn phonetically, when he already knows the correct word or letter needed, but is getting confused.

For the record, I'm not having a go at anyone on here, just stating my opinion of it all.

Anyone that knows me knows I sound pretty 'common' I did have a Mum who was prepared to sit and teach me/make me learn the basics in reading, writing and numbers though, as well as attending a good primary school. I learnt nothing worthwhile after primary school and nearly everything else has been self taught through reading books, etc.

Purveyors of phonics claim it works better than 'traditional' methods but I see two flaws in their claim: firstly that the originators of the process were using US English, which differs from UK English orthography largely because of Webster's attempts to rationalise it in his 'An American Dictionary of the English Language' in 1828. As a result, US English is somewhat more phonetically spelt than UK English.

The second reason is that it fails, as T points out, if you already know how to read...

My anecdotal evidence is similar: I was taught to read almost as soon as I could talk, at two or so; before I went to infant school I had read, among others, Robinson Crusoe (in a children's abridged edition), A Chinese Childhood, and was steadily ploughing through my father's collection of pulp westerns - J T Edson, Louis L'Amour, and 'Sudden'. The ladybird series had long been discarded, though I retain a fond memory of 'The Green Umbrella' which I still recall included for some reason a family of rabbits taking a seaside holiday...

I cannot claim fully to have understood many of the themes included, but it certainly came as a shock when I found I was suddenly expected not to be able to understand anything more complex than 'See Spot. Spot is a dog. See Spot run.'

The same problem persisted throughout my schooling: I was reading a new book every couple of days, whatever I could get my hands on ('Grey's Anatomy' was a surprise, and even the Children's Britannica and a 20-volume series on the world's animal species didn't slow me down too much) while being expected in English lessons to stumble over pages read out loud by one pupil at a time from 'A Kestrel for a Knave', 'The Merchant of Venice', or 'Lord of the Flies'. Since most of the victims pupils had no great interest, nor any concept of pace or intonation, this was an intensely boring procedure for all concerned and probably killed any interest in reading for 95% of all concerned, including the teacher. I survived largely be reading something else during those lessons, occasionally being discovered doing when I was perhaps a little slow locating the exact paragraph when it was my turn to 'do English'.

Meh. My fault, I suppose, for being born into a school system which was just starting to play with the idea of 'keep the little dears happy rather than encouraging them to learn'; I was alienated and unhappy through seven years of secondary schooling, a major reason why I did not at that time undertake tertiary education.

Re Sam [as I started the post last night] Well I put my post in a misleading way as I hadn't intended to imply that. My bad as they say

I'm interested in

a] the way the eyes deal with light and shade in close proximity, e.g.driving between an avenue of trees in bright sunlight, or flash photography.

b] the way the brain interprets these signal.

Is the eye machinery itself different from person to person or, as my son-in-law for example insists, or just subject to the brain handling the messages?

Contrasts of light, I noticed, when sun shines on a panel radiator, produce a shimmer effect between the raised and the shaded [indented] parts What if the eye found it tricky to adjust between the light and shade satisfactorily? We are warned on news bulletins that reports contain flash photography [a courtesy for epileptics I understand] .

I have often found that "movement " of print or musical notation occurs with students, especially when the letters or symbols are closely spaced. Now we already know that enlarging print is a coping mechanism, thereby increasing the amount of space around the characters. We also use tinted overlays or coloured paper to read from as it presumably reduces the glare and therefore the contrast in light.

I remember being taken to Amsterdam on a big birthday and going to the Van Gogh museum and particularly enjoying the experience because the paintings were so well spaced out. Many such exhibitions are cramped so that a painting you are observing is being distracted from your attention by those surrounding.

Affected students who are slow learners are sometimes guilty of not making heroic efforts to process what they see on a page because it's such a bloody effort and they are aware of a need to pace themselves over a day. There are some tell-tale signs in music score reading - as well as left/right issues there are up/down ones; not realising that a note has stayed in the same place; reading a note placed on one line and playing it as if it were the note on the line above/below; blinking or staring; a strong desire to memorise [a coping mechanism]; poor preparation of something apparently starighforward.

Some of these could be attributable to laziness you say - I agree one or two idle jacks will always slip through the net - but mostly I find perseverance wins through and an acceptance from the student that there are ways around it. Just as important are the strengths of that person that have developed in spite of the reading issue. I have never failed to be impressed by these.

What if this is not to do with reading/spelling but with particular types of memory?

There are some erudite contributors on here [you know who they are] who are mines of information or argue coherently through a long thread and give a very good impression of fluid recall of the information presented to them.

You could argue that short-term memory defers to the stronger long-term memory in some people. So the ability to retain a pattern is more difficult at first and has to be repeated many times before accessing long-term status. I would be interested to know if people who empathise with this also have the ability to pore over long-term projects in great detail or have the patience to laboriously work out a knotty problem. Perhaps a sort of compulsive ability.....

It's refreshing to see some one go to such an effort for there students, I can assure you I was classed as a hindrance and something to be delt with in lesson rather than some one spending a little time helping me the way you help your students. Hats off to you on that one.

My short term memory is horrific to the point where I lost my keys, I was sure I had locked them in the car and could remember seeing them in the boot, called aa to open the car only to find the keys not In the boot but on the floor where I was working, I was that convinced they were in the boot I didn't even check needless to say every one was very impressed!

I think you've made your point.