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335D Drag Race #1350513
11/06/2012 09:18
11/06/2012 09:18

C
Concours_Alex
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I'm looking at taking my Coupe to North Weald drag racing event in Essex this weekend and a friend of mine is taking his 335D E90 BMW. I must admit his figures are worrying me a little, 290bhp and 450ft lb out of the box!!

My car has had a lot done, it's currently pushing circa 350bhp, will the Coupe give him a good run for his money? Also on the road acceleration, say 3rd on wards do you think I'd pull?

He's convinced his diesel is far better but I'm not so sure...

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1350550
11/06/2012 12:19
11/06/2012 12:19

J
jonnybgt1759
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jonnybgt1759
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you will destory him on the road & strip look at power to weight he is 290bhp @ 1650kg you are 350bhp @ 1310kg. Forget the torque unless you are in the wrong gear.

Diesel's are not better than petrol for perfromance its been proven over and over.

Im sure he will enjoy the noise coming out your exhaust lol

Last edited by jonnybgt1759; 11/06/2012 12:20.
Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1350569
11/06/2012 13:25
11/06/2012 13:25
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,363
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
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I beg to differ - you're going to struggle to beat him.

RWD launch capability, 450 lb-ft and (probably) traction control is going to put you at an instant disadvantage.

It'll be close and IMHO, it'll be entirely down to how well you can launch the Coupe. Get a good launch and you might beat him. Get it wrong and you're toast....


[Linked Image]
Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1350576
11/06/2012 13:43
11/06/2012 13:43

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jonnybgt1759
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jonnybgt1759
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yes launch will be important but RWD isnt amazing off the line either only a little better than a fwd setup if you have good tyres you will be fine.

on the road you wont have any problems.

My dc5 holds 335d's fairly easy.

The only concern would be if he has it mapped they then kick out 350bhp and 700+nm of torque and run 13.2's

when I had my 350bhp coupe the best 1/4 mile i got was 13.7 @109mph at crail, I couldnt launch the thing buts thats due to the crap surface.

I take it you will be doing this at the pod?

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1350598
11/06/2012 15:26
11/06/2012 15:26
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I'm with Nigel, it'll be close. More torque, a bigger engine and I'm guessing an auto box.

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1350605
11/06/2012 15:43
11/06/2012 15:43

J
jonnybgt1759
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jonnybgt1759
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Here is the road test data.

http://www.insideline.com/bmw/3-series/2009/2009-bmw-335d-full-test.html

14.1 @ 99mph

not going to trouble a 350bhp coupe either on the strip or the road.

Its too heavy.

I dont know why people keep talking about torque ?

BHP is dervied from your torque and if the coupe can make more power with less torque then why mention it unless you plan to race in wrong gears.

People always mention the lack of torque to me in my DC5 but it revs higher to achieve the power.

As bhp is not actually measurable directly its a formula torque x RPM / 5252

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1350610
11/06/2012 16:06
11/06/2012 16:06
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,614
S Wales
chrissy Offline
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I managed to get away from a 335i In my 292Bhp 20vt, and that was on a DC,

Im in favour of the Coupe, Naturally unless it was a remapped 335d,

Chrissy

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: Nigel] #1350621
11/06/2012 16:39
11/06/2012 16:39

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roly
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Originally Posted By: Nigel
I beg to differ - you're going to struggle to beat him.

RWD launch capability, 450 lb-ft and (probably) traction control is going to put you at an instant disadvantage.

It'll be close and IMHO, it'll be entirely down to how well you can launch the Coupe. Get a good launch and you might beat him. Get it wrong and you're toast....


This.

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1350630
11/06/2012 16:59
11/06/2012 16:59

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tandino
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Going to have to agree that unless you know what your doing and have lots of experience launching high power front wheel drive cars on the quarter mile then it will be alot closer than the figures suggest on paper.
A rear drive car will always run a quicker quarter time than front wheel drive if all other factors are the same, the quickest drag cars aren't rwd for nothing.
I'm a lover of front wheel drive but sprinting is not its best forte...

Pete

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1350648
11/06/2012 18:22
11/06/2012 18:22

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jonone
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Ask nigel about his launching technique and then practice! get some sticky front tyres, and If you have adj suspension it might be worth putting the fronts full soft and the rears full hard.
This will give you your best chance....but its all about getting it of the line (which is hard in a coupe)as others have suggested.

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1350652
11/06/2012 18:29
11/06/2012 18:29

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jonnybgt1759
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jonnybgt1759
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Originally Posted By: tandino
Going to have to agree that unless you know what your doing and have lots of experience launching high power front wheel drive cars on the quarter mile then it will be alot closer than the figures suggest on paper.
A rear drive car will always run a quicker quarter time than front wheel drive if all other factors are the same, the quickest drag cars aren't rwd for nothing.
I'm a lover of front wheel drive but sprinting is not its best forte...

Pete


The quickest road 'cars' are 4wd...... over the 1/4

a drag car isnt exactly a normal car with huge wheels at the back and little at the front.

You go to any road car 1/4 mile event and 4wd will dominate the best times.

Rear wheel drive for a front engine rwd setup is not far off front engine fwd setup for launch.

Im sure H2yper from here ran a 13.2 in a 330bhp coupe with sticky tyres.

Last edited by jonnybgt1759; 11/06/2012 18:31.
Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1350732
12/06/2012 00:24
12/06/2012 00:24

C
Concours_Alex
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Concours_Alex
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So many mixed views. I know it's not remapped at present but he plans on it at a later stage.

On the road surely even mapped 50mph onwards a 350bhp Coupe should kill it?

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1350752
12/06/2012 07:58
12/06/2012 07:58

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jonnybgt1759
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jonnybgt1759
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Originally Posted By: Concours_Alex
So many mixed views. I know it's not remapped at present but he plans on it at a later stage.

On the road surely even mapped 50mph onwards a 350bhp Coupe should kill it?


from 30mph wink dont listen to the rubbish posted!! on the road is where the coupe is best when rolling 30-130 even when its mapped is still going to be too heavy.

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1350753
12/06/2012 08:07
12/06/2012 08:07

C
Concours_Alex
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Concours_Alex
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The car is frighteningly fast on the road when accelerating and I've owned a couple of these cars now! Flea mapped and a GT28RS it's unreal!

I can't see many things staying with it in honesty.

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1350771
12/06/2012 09:12
12/06/2012 09:12

T
tandino
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tandino
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Originally Posted By: jonnybgt1759

The quickest road 'cars' are 4wd...... over the 1/4

a drag car isnt exactly a normal car with huge wheels at the back and little at the front.

You go to any road car 1/4 mile event and 4wd will dominate the best times.

Rear wheel drive for a front engine rwd setup is not far off front engine fwd setup for launch.

Im sure H2yper from here ran a 13.2 in a 330bhp coupe with sticky tyres.


The difference in fwd over rwd might only be fractions of a second but its still a big factor.
You take two cars both weighing the same, both with the same power and torque curves and the same tyres and rwd will win if both drivers are equal, thats not internet bull, thats fact, weight transfer and the first 60ft is crucial because the gap gained there is amplified all the way down the quarter.
And have you forgotten about the TT Supra that totally dominated street legal drag racing for years?.
Im not saying that 4wd doesnt win but that weight transfer and sticky tyres means that on a well set up car 4wd isnt a massive advantage over the 1/4 over a good rwd set up once you take in extra weight and trans losses.
And 'Rubbish posted', isnt this a discussion forum where people give opinion rather than insults?.....

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1350777
12/06/2012 09:55
12/06/2012 09:55

J
jonnybgt1759
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jonnybgt1759
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J



Originally Posted By: tandino
The difference in fwd over rwd might only be fractions of a second but its still a big factor.
You take two cars both weighing the same, both with the same power and torque curves and the same tyres and rwd will win if both drivers are equal, thats not internet bull, thats fact, weight transfer and the first 60ft is crucial because the gap gained there is amplified all the way down the quarter.


Yes this is correct however the cars dont have the same weight or power the coupe being rougly 300kg less with 60 more bhp. So you have kind of proved my point.

60ft is very important in the 1/4 mile as I found out against my friends classic sti with the 4wd he got a 12.9 @ 101mph with 1.8 to 60ft I got a 14.3 @ 103.4mph with a 2.4 to 60ft on the road my car has the edge.

Originally Posted By: tandino


And have you forgotten about the TT Supra that totally dominated street legal drag racing for years?.
Im not saying that 4wd doesnt win but that weight transfer and sticky tyres means that on a well set up car 4wd isnt a massive advantage over the 1/4 over a good rwd set up once you take in extra weight and trans losses.
And 'Rubbish posted', isnt this a discussion forum where people give opinion rather than insults?.....


The supra ran drag tyres at the rear and smaller at the front which again was setup directly for the strip with suspension mods to suit.

4wd will put in good 60ft times every time if the driver doesnt mind his clutch wink

Tranny loss on the 4wd is steep on your typical 50/50 splits however take the gtr for example it doesnt keep a 50/50 split it transfers more power to the front when it doesnt need the full 4wd thus reducing loss.

I may have been a little hastie to write the 'rubbish' comment I am sorry if anyone took offence to that one wink


Last edited by jonnybgt1759; 12/06/2012 09:56.
Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1350778
12/06/2012 09:57
12/06/2012 09:57
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390
Essex
Trappy Offline
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Essex
Originally Posted By: tandino
The difference in fwd over rwd might only be fractions of a second but its still a big factor.
You take two cars both weighing the same, both with the same power and torque curves and the same tyres and rwd will win if both drivers are equal, thats not internet bull, thats fact, weight transfer and the first 60ft is crucial because the gap gained there is amplified all the way down the quarter.


Out of interest, I ran this through my calculator for a 20vT vs a RWD 20vT. I shifted the weight distrubution to 52/48 because it would be more representative of a RWD set-up and, if a RWD car was 68/32, it'd launch worse! Also worth considering, is that the transmission losses would be greater for a FR set-up but this isn't relevant in this example.

Fiat Coupé 20vT (68/32 weight distribution)
0-30mph: 2.53
0-40mph: 3.41
0-50mph: 4.78
0-60mph: 5.98
0-70mph: 7.85
0-80mph: 9.71
0-90mph: 11.83
0-100mph: 14.87
0-110mph: 18.11
0-120mph: 22.26
0-130mph: 28.63
0-140mph: 37.4
0-150mph: 59.31

60-100mph 8.89
60ft Time: 2.58
60ft Terminal: 30.5
330ft Time: 6.41
330ft Terminal: 63
1/8 Mile Time: 9.59
1/8 Mile Terminal: 79.4
1000ft Time: 12.21
1000ft Terminal: 91.6
1/4 Mile Time: 14.56
1/4 Mile Terminal: 99
0-400m Time: 14.51
0-400m Terminal: 98.8
1km Time: 26.19
1km Terminal: 126.4
3/4 Mile Time: 29.78
3/4 Mile Terminal: 131.6
1 Mile Time: 36.41
1 Mile Terminal: 139.1
2 Mile Time: 61
2 Mile Terminal: 150.3
0.75 Mile Time: 29.78
0.75 Terminal: 131.6
Top Speed (mph): 152.5


Fiat Coupé 20vT RWD (52/48)
0-30mph: 2.1
0-40mph: 2.88
0-50mph: 4.25
0-60mph: 5.46
0-70mph: 7.32
0-80mph: 9.18
0-90mph: 11.31
0-100mph: 14.34
0-110mph: 17.58
0-120mph: 21.73
0-130mph: 28.1
0-140mph: 36.87
0-150mph: 58.78
60-100mph 8.88
60ft Time: 2.36
60ft Terminal: 33.5
330ft Time: 6.04
330ft Terminal: 64
1/8 Mile Time: 9.18
1/8 Mile Terminal: 80
1000ft Time: 11.79
1000ft Terminal: 92
1/4 Mile Time: 14.14
1/4 Mile Terminal: 99.4
0-400m Time: 14.08
0-400m Terminal: 99.2
1km Time: 25.74
1km Terminal: 126.5
3/4 Mile Time: 29.32
3/4 Mile Terminal: 131.7
1 Mile Time: 35.95
1 Mile Terminal: 139.2
2 Mile Time: 60.53
2 Mile Terminal: 150.3
0.75 Mile Time: 29.32
0.75 Terminal: 131.7
Top Speed (mph): 152.5


F****** b****** thing...
Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1350789
12/06/2012 10:44
12/06/2012 10:44

T
tandino
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tandino
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My point was that the BMW even with less power and more weight would still be a close race possibly even win because it should in theory have a better launch than the fiat,
It will be easy to launch compared to the Coupe, traction control and more than likely a torque converter will cushion the initial hit to the tyres more so than the Coupe.
And knowing modern BMW turbo engine's either diseasal or petrol there figures are usually very very conservative so i would expect the power figures to be closer than stated perhaps.
And when i was talking about the old TT Supra i wasn't just refering to one particular car but in general, slicked up or not, they dominated street legal drag racing even though there was 4wd competition out there.
Yes there comes a point when a rwd car cannot put down its power without running drag slicks etc etc but its still more effective than rwd like for like.
Anyway proof is in the pudding, lets hope he doesnt get it mapped in the meantime!

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1350801
12/06/2012 12:09
12/06/2012 12:09
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,057
Southsea
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Gunzi Offline
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Posts: 8,057
Southsea
Trappy please could you run the stats on the standard 335d vs the modified Coupe mentioned above?

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1350836
12/06/2012 14:42
12/06/2012 14:42

C
Concours_Alex
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Concours_Alex
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Exactly Gunzi can you do that please

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1350845
12/06/2012 15:10
12/06/2012 15:10
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 268
Swansea
DLT Offline
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Swansea
Originally Posted By: Concours_Alex
Exactly Gunzi can you do that please


Torque Stats Calculator.....

Front wheel drive, 350BHP and 1310Kg's
Power to Weight: 272 bhp/ton
0-60: 4.9
0-100: 10.3
60-100: 5.4
1/4 Mile ET: 12.89
1/4 Mile Terminal: 113
Dragstrip 1/4 Mile ET: 12.60
Dragstrip 1/4 Mile Terminal: 115

BMW E90 335D figures from same site
BHP 282 @ 4400rpm
Torque (lbs/ft) 428 @ 2250rpm
BHP/Ton 173
0-60mph 5.7s
0-100mph 13.7s
60-100mph 8s
1/4 Mile 14.66s
Terminal Speed 97mph
Kilometre N/A
Top Speed (mph) 155
Nürburgring Lap Time N/A

Having had two high power coupes I would bet on the BMW, but then again I can't launch for shit.

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: Gunzi] #1350848
12/06/2012 15:19
12/06/2012 15:19
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390
Essex
Trappy Offline
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Essex
Originally Posted By: Gunzi
Trappy please could you run the stats on the standard 335d vs the modified Coupe mentioned above?


BMW E90 335d (2006)
0-30mph: 2.2
0-40mph: 3.1
0-50mph: 4.2
0-60mph: 5.7
0-70mph: 7.2
0-80mph: 9.1
0-90mph: 11.2
0-100mph: 13.7
0-110mph: 17.1
0-120mph: 20.9
0-130mph: 25.4
0-140mph: 31.5
0-150mph: 40.3

Calculated 60ft (18.3m) (s): 2.43
Calculated 60ft (18.3m) (mph): 32.5
Calculated 330ft (100.6m) (s): 6.14
Calculated 330ft (100.6m) (mph): 62.9
Calculated 1/8 Mile (201.1) (s): 9.26
Calculated 1/8 Mile (201.1) (mph): 80.8
Calculated 1000ft (301.7m) (s): 11.83
Calculated 1000ft (301.7m) (mph): 92.5
Calculated 0-400m (s): 14.10
Calculated 0-400m (mph): 101.2
Calculated 0-1000m (s): 25.61
Calculated 0-1000m (mph): 130.3
Calculated 1/4 Mile (402.3m) (s): 14.15
Calculated 1/4 Mile (402.3m) (mph): 101.3
Calculated Mile (1609.2m) (s): 35.41
Calculated Mile (1609.2m) (mph): 144.4

342bhp Coop
0-30mph: 2.53
0-40mph: 3.4
0-50mph: 4.57
0-60mph: 5.45
0-70mph: 6.46
0-80mph: 8.05
0-90mph: 9.46
0-100mph: 11.14
0-110mph: 13.47
0-120mph: 15.82
0-130mph: 18.82
0-140mph: 22.99
0-150mph: 28.03
0-160mph: 36.52
0-170mph: 66.05

60ft Time: 2.58
60ft Terminal: 30.5
330ft Time: 6.28
330ft Terminal: 68.3
1/8 Mile Time: 9.19
1/8 Mile Terminal: 88.2
1000ft Time: 11.54
1000ft Terminal: 102.1
1/4 Mile Time: 13.66
1/4 Mile Terminal: 110.9
0-400m Time: 13.61
0-400m Terminal: 110.7
1km Time: 24.03
1km Terminal: 142.4
3/4 Mile Time: 27.2
3/4 Mile Terminal: 148.6
1 Mile Time: 33.08
1 Mile Terminal: 156.8
2 Mile Time: 55
2 Mile Terminal: 168.4
0.75 Mile Time: 27.21
0.75 Terminal: 148.7
Top Speed (mph): 171.2


F****** b****** thing...
Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1350850
12/06/2012 15:40
12/06/2012 15:40

J
jonnybgt1759
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jonnybgt1759
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About 100bhp per ton more for the coupe this really is a no brainer.

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1350864
12/06/2012 16:09
12/06/2012 16:09
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,057
Southsea
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Gunzi Offline
Club member 189, Former Club President
Gunzi  Offline
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Posts: 8,057
Southsea
Thanks Trappy.

It looks like a no brainer "on paper", but as others have said the reality is the Coupe is going to be harder to launch than the 335D. If Alex gets the launch and the gear changes right then the Coupe should win it, but get either of those wrong and it'll be all over in a cloud of diesel smoke.

Good luck!

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: Gunzi] #1350875
12/06/2012 17:08
12/06/2012 17:08

J
jonnybgt1759
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jonnybgt1759
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Originally Posted By: Gunzi
Thanks Trappy.

It looks like a no brainer "on paper", but as others have said the reality is the Coupe is going to be harder to launch than the 335D. If Alex gets the launch and the gear changes right then the Coupe should win it, but get either of those wrong and it'll be all over in a cloud of diesel smoke.

Good luck!


The same goes for the bmw driver he has to launch perfect etc. Any car could beat another if one of the drivers makes a total balls up.

The coupe in question driven correctly will easily win on the 1/4 mile and destroy the beemer on the road.

With a map on the bmw I would still favour the coupe on the road when rolling.

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: Gunzi] #1350921
12/06/2012 19:37
12/06/2012 19:37
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,057
Southsea
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Gunzi Offline
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Originally Posted By: Gunzi
... but as others have said the reality is the Coupe is going to be harder to launch than the 335D...


This was my (and most others) point. From memory all 335Ds are autos, negating the gearchange factor.

Last edited by Gunzi; 12/06/2012 20:19.
Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1350990
13/06/2012 07:04
13/06/2012 07:04

C
Concours_Alex
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Concours_Alex
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Ok so if he does beat me on the strip due to poor launch or whatever at least I can say well on the road you've got no hope lol!

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1351059
13/06/2012 14:49
13/06/2012 14:49

C
calgonis
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calgonis
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My money is on the Coupe.. I think you will reel him back in even with a poor start. Unless you leave your gearbox on the start line of course wink

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1352959
19/06/2012 08:33
19/06/2012 08:33

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ngspawn
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ngspawn
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I`ve raced vs my friend`s 330xi sedan (256hp) when my coop was at 1bar boost (around 220hp). we started from 60km/h and I`ve won both times. so coop with more power will win for sure

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1352967
19/06/2012 09:02
19/06/2012 09:02

R
roly
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roly
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R



How did it go Alex?

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1355009
25/06/2012 22:22
25/06/2012 22:22

C
Concours_Alex
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Concours_Alex
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Didn't end up happening sadly I blew my coolant hose of death the day before argggh! All fixed now though!

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1355212
26/06/2012 18:06
26/06/2012 18:06
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,917
Stoke-on-Trent duck!
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Stoke-on-Trent duck!
Still think you would of smoked the beemer smile the 0 - 100 is barely any quicker than a standard coupe, never mind a modified one. Launch it properly and he'd be a goner


I'll be back smile

Alor Blue Seat Leon FR 180 atm smile
Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1355896
29/06/2012 16:09
29/06/2012 16:09

K
Kenno
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Kenno
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So the Beemer won by default as you didn't make the drag race. wink

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1356200
30/06/2012 23:45
30/06/2012 23:45

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Marco20ValveT
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Marco20ValveT
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Originally Posted By: Kenno
So the Beemer won by default as you didn't make the drag race. wink


I Agree with Kenno.... Lol



Last edited by Marco20ValveT; 30/06/2012 23:45.
Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1356255
01/07/2012 10:12
01/07/2012 10:12

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Concours_Alex
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Concours_Alex
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Dammit! lol

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1356301
01/07/2012 14:00
01/07/2012 14:00
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Stoke-on-Trent duck!
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Tommy_Coop23 Offline
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Stoke-on-Trent duck!
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Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1357131
04/07/2012 15:16
04/07/2012 15:16

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Kenno
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Alex - I'd be interested in what your mate thinks of his 335d. I'm looking at getting one.

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1357569
06/07/2012 11:08
06/07/2012 11:08

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DanielTheManual
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Didn't Cyclone have a monster remapped one? Might have been a 535d.

I'm sure he took it to an airfield event where he matched Aston Martins etc. over the course.

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1357619
06/07/2012 14:10
06/07/2012 14:10

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Kenno
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Kenno
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Eesh. You coupé guys (and girls).. it's all about straight line shove with you isn't it? rolleyes laugh

I'm actually more interested in what it's like to live with on a long term basis. Not just on the A3 ten seconds at a time.

Re: 335D Drag Race [Re: ] #1357737
06/07/2012 22:18
06/07/2012 22:18
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 952
Drakelow
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Jamiepm  Offline
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Posts: 952
Drakelow
Yep Jules (Cyclone) used to have a 335d remapped to roughly 350 bhp & 500ft lbs of torque. I drove it on numerous events and over the 1/8th marker nothing it ran against, including an LP640 could match it!!

Jamie


She's alive!
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